<a​remor:matrix.org> How?

<a​remor:matrix.org> No mail bouncing issues?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I code since age 9, and I can force myself to adopt that garbage. I am so sorry.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I code since age 9, and I can't force myself to adopt that garbage. I am so sorry.

<a​remor:matrix.org> What garbage?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Complex

you mean like the square root of -1?

<a​remor:matrix.org> That’s imaginary

no its complex

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> lol

<a​remor:matrix.org> I give. Can’t claim to know something I haven’t used in over a quarter century

<a​remor:matrix.org> And I wow I think I never knew what the application of that is. I hate they teach math like that. At least tell me what I can use this non sense for….

complex numbers have many uses

theyre necessary for circuit design, but theyre also great for software. you can do 2d rotations without trig functions

<a​remor:matrix.org> Seems you had a good math department. I know for a fact that mine was complete ass

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> My math teacher used to laugh at students that wouldn't understand her theoretical garbage.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Nop

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> "But this doesn't make sense, teacher". Her: "HAHA! that's why you're going to fail next exam! Read the book! LOL LMAO HA!"

<a​remor:matrix.org> Screams low self esteem on their part

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Yeah, her underpaid fat ass sure did have some issues.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Good to hear. I’ve suggested this to people. And I was thinking of doing this again just today

SHUM mastodon.social/@EugeneMcParland⊙mi/111967265924323938

<a​remor:matrix.org> It was good until it wasn’t. That’s why open source atomic swaps are superior though.

<a​remor:matrix.org> btw what makes Serai any better than BasicSwap?

Serai is different than basicswap

<a​remor:matrix.org> Are we supposed to trust loading this url?

the url from hyc? Yes, its hyc and its mastodon

<a​remor:matrix.org> If I ever knew, I’ve forgotten how

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s a redirect. But maybe I don’t know mastodon well enough

Serai uses liquidity pools of xmr/sri for example, basicswap is p2p atomic swaps

because of tech, some atomic swaps dont work, like firo to monero. Those would work with serai, because it uses sri as an intermediary. basicswap is feeless, p2p, and a solo operation. You run your own trading desk, basically, and rely on nothing but someone else posting/taking your offers

<a​remor:matrix.org> Thanks for the detailed answer. Was just about to ask this

Also, basicswap is live on mainnet, but doesnt support any evm chains yet. so bridging to dex' like uniswap or serai doesnt work yet

<a​remor:matrix.org> BasicSwap has no backend at all?

When you run bsx, you run multiple nodes. The particl chain has a bitmessage (what we use for multisig messages) rewrite that is used for the orderbook

<a​remor:matrix.org> lol I couldn’t remember the nick

the messages themselves arent stored on particls blockchain - they expire after 48hrs

<a​remor:matrix.org> This I don’t understand but that’s fine. It ain’t the only thing I don’t understand

when you do multisig on monero, you relay secure messages with one another using bitmessage. Particl improved bitmessage so it can run an orderbook, and allows users if bsx etc to post "messages" to make/take offers for other chains

<b​asses:matrix.org> they got hacked

<b​asses:matrix.org> how what?

<b​asses:matrix.org> lmao

<b​asses:matrix.org> You never ran into some common matrix can't decrypt message shit?

<b​asses:matrix.org> SimpleX chat is way easier

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> well you are comparing cow shit to dog shit, of course cow shit is better

<b​asses:matrix.org> elaborate

<b​asses:matrix.org> because that's bullshit

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> yeah they both suck

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> They're all terrible software.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Compare to IRC, it runs on kb of code, does essentially the same thing.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Is it really good? No, but it's decades older, works better and it is auditable.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Insanely cheaper too.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 3 decades older

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And you can use a client from 3 decades ago and it just work

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Because irc is a stable well defined protocole

xmpp sucks how?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> it sucks less, but it sucks in that there are protocol incompatibilities because it's loosely defined, because "dream up a feature first, make it part of the protocol, then try to implement it later in thousand different ways" policy.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Xmpp and matrix suffer the same issue.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Protocol is less defined, leaving the client the possibility to add there own things.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Thanks to the fragmentation we got dozen of clients that all sucks differently

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Its the same reason Linux sucks on desktop (I daily run linux since the 90's)

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Yep.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Btw suckless.org/philosophy

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Eventually I will make a Gentoo with musl + suckless coreutils... Eventually

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I'll download it.

ping

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> pong

thanks

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> you're welcome

<b​asses:matrix.org> not E2EE

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Part of the problem is bloat philosophy

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That began to execute in the early 2000's

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Now 99% of the code our CPU execute is bloat to execute that 1% of the useful code.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But we are getting #monero-offtopic:monero.social

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> We dont have E2EE here

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> IRC is for group chat, most of the matrix group room have E2EE disabled and history enabled

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Simplex have E2EE for group but it's not battle tested and have no proper PC GUI

<b​asses:matrix.org> no proper PC GUI?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Did that change? Been a while I did not relook?

<b​asses:matrix.org> talking about the protocol, not only for group chats

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> OTC comes by default with irssi generally.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> OTR comes by default with irssi generally.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Nothing prevent you from adding GPG into the IRC mix, you are going to have e2ee and unlike most of the other e2ee, you will also understand how it work ;)

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> No, man, gpg is terrible, just use OTR

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oh yeah, that OTR thing too

<b​asses:matrix.org> metadata

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But it work reliably in a predictable manner.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If you want that and E2EE, Signal is like that too. It's battle tested and finalyyyyyyy they got the unsername thingy to replace the phone number since last release.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Signal have two client that support all the stuff reliably

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oh, Simplex do have a nice desktop app now yay!

<b​asses:matrix.org> Still metadata problems, centralized, requires phone number and no local file encryption

<b​asses:matrix.org> for desktop

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Of course it's an bloated app but at least there is an app

<b​asses:matrix.org> yep

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> use to require phone number

<b​asses:matrix.org> ???

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You can use molly, if you want local encryption

<b​asses:matrix.org> It literally still requires it

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> YEah, but you don't have to propagate it.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Considering signal got tested and if some glowies ask information about you using your phone number, the only thing they get is when you subscribed to signal 😂

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> At least that is a confirmed fact

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And the glowies need your phone number for that

<b​asses:matrix.org> and metadata

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I tried it, doesn't work on Linux, too buggy.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Well, Linux don't have a stable ABI so of course they probably skipped some corners

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Wait a few releases I guess

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> ok

<b​asses:matrix.org> their sealed sender feature could still be exploited by "glowies

<b​asses:matrix.org> their sealed sender feature could still be exploited by "glowies"

<b​asses:matrix.org> all I hear is skill issue

<b​asses:matrix.org> I got many using it on Linux

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> yeah I must be retard

<b​asses:matrix.org> simplex performs better on phone

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can't test for now, only using Linux on server for now.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I'm getting old and got not time to spend on fixing stuff some guy broke again in his basement.

<b​asses:matrix.org> but has minor battery problems that keeps getting improved every update

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yep, I don't use phone for other than 2FA and extremely rare phone call.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I came to the conclusion that truly private communications are only possible on independently made airgapped hardware

<b​asses:matrix.org> what basement?

<b​asses:matrix.org> >private communications are only possible on independently made airgapped hardware

<b​asses:matrix.org> lmaooooo

<b​asses:matrix.org> tells you all you need to know

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You know what I mean.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oh, yay, it's the 3th critical CVE this month!!!

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Let's upgrade...

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> /-\-/-\-/-\

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Error : Package X require Y 2.2.33

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Upgrade aborded

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oh wow, 3 time this year!

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> At lease Linux on server require WAY less package so the likely of the package manager vomiting on you is way less...

<b​asses:matrix.org> I thought you are talking about simplex

<b​asses:matrix.org> unless you meaning running your own simplex chat server

<b​asses:matrix.org> unless you mean running your own simplex chat server

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I guess you have to run your own simplex server

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> As simplex is not battle tested you have simply no clue if the simplex server code is the one that run on there server.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> It's a nightmare. Those url's are simply nasty.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> and there is no solution in sight

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I'm sorry, it's a great idea, except it doesn't work. It's like trying to hold water with your hands.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The internet itself is centralized and permissioned, you can't go against its nature, you need to adapt and take advantage of it.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Just migrate all useful internet in Tor

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then it will also fix internet blotness because people won't run sites with 32 frameworks and 104MB of js dependencies up there

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> All rooms lost there avatars since monero.social got fixed!

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> s/all/most/g

s/there/their/?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> s/their/there're/

you can (and should) run your own simpleX server

their docs walk you through it

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Also I told my grandma to audit and compile her monero node and download the entire blockchain on her phone but somehow she refused, what kind of world are we living in? People don't understand code? wut??

man if only you, the computer expert in the family, could just point your grandma's simpleX app at the server YOU run

maybe the next release will support that

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Again, I code since age 9 and I can't understand how that ugly link system works, or how is it decentralized, and to be fair I don't want to.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> It's just a waste of time, just use literally anything on Tor and be done with it.

if you had read the docs youd see that it shows you how to put your server on tor

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I am more interested in mesh networks that use encrypted packets with no id.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> low level stuff

then dont make dumbshit criticisms such as "grandma cant figure that out" against other things

because grandma sure as fuck isnt figuring out mesh networks

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I am sorry for being so negative, I am not against innovation, or this developer and his company, or you using it, please don't misinterpret my pedantic rants with hatred.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> It just works, those LoRa things are just an app on a phone.

they are also slower than the original modems from the 1960s

and this cant be improved. its inherent to using low frequency radio waves

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Haven't tried it yet, but in theory through bluetooth it's fast.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> the longer your range, the slower, that is true

<b​asses:matrix.org> >and to be fair I don't want to.

<b​asses:matrix.org> Could have saved our time

<b​asses:matrix.org> Don't try and discredit all the hard work done by the devs to solve actual problems, by spewing misinfo intentionally.

<b​asses:matrix.org> popey.com/blog/2024/02/exodus-bitcoin-wallet-490k-swindle

the fuck

who in the snap store approved this

Lol, it's to be expected

Having a wallet with over 100k without an hardware wallet is asking to be scammed, unless you DO read all the source code of the shit you are running

compile core wallets yourself

Also audit and compile all the dependencies yourself

You didn't write your own node and wallet software from scratch on a compiler you wrote yourself?

Are you even trying??

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I use an hardware wallet.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> To leak my funds, both my hardware wallet maker and feather wallet would need to be to work together

A compiler written in C or assembly or machine language?

the author of this blog post doesnt seem very technically inclined. for example he never mentions a signature verification system

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Even with signature verification for the package maintainers, won't prevent someone to do honest work for X package manager then one day backdoor or swap half of the crypto wallet.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Quite worth it actually to slave yourself for a year or two then extra a few millions...

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Ideally you do the swap during Christmas holidays

a signature would fail to match on a package that did that..

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The package come with the signatures, the dev put them in right? Just set the one for the malicious package.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Signature only protect you if the package is honest and someone not related replace the binary at the source.

you cant change a binary and still have a signature match. and you cant make a new signature for your malicious binary without the private key

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You release a new version of the package with a different signature

and you cant submit malicious commits to the source tree without everyone seeing them

you cant make a "different signature"

thats not how this works

the valid signatures are all public. your "different" one is not on that list

<b​asses:matrix.org> RavFX 🤐: do you audit every single package update?

like if what you were saying made sense, why dont you just sign a tx from my monero wallet and steal my funds?

you dont need malicious software at all. just sign a tx

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Once you get commit right on x package manager then your private key will allow you to mess with stuff there

no, it will allow you to make a signature that obviously doesnt match the approved ones and throw an instant red flag

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Did you ever worked as a package manager maintainer?

do you know how cryptographically signing things works?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I did and I know how easy it is to corrupt shit for a malicious maintainer

i can write a virus right now and sign it. bfd. that signature wont match anything from any official source repos

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Work in a official repo as a maintainer

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Like the debian or gentoo one or whatever

great so then sign a monero tx from my wallet and send yourself all my funds

its just that easy. you just sign it!

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You wont be able to access the getmonero repo for sure but you can patch the debian build or add a .patch in the gentoo repo, update the ebuild and regen the manifest

and my patch will only be available on shadyasswebsite.com and the signatures will not match anything in the getmonero repo

so wtf are you talking about

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Probably easy to do that for gentoo as there monero build is the 0.17 one... Just bump the version and add a .patch "to fix some compiler issue"

uh huh. and the signature of the binaries you build will not match the signatures on the monero source website

you are going in circles

you clearly dont understand how any of this works

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> For gentoo, the .patch are in the /portage/blah/blah/files folder

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Get the normal src from getmonero

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Monero binary sigs would only match if you set up the whole reproducible build environment

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> As you have commit right on gentoo you can update whats in */files and also patch the ebuild

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Not if you just compile it straight from source

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Monero sig are one gentoo

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> What about i'm a debian maintainer, and I create a new build of monero that I patch. The problem is not about the source/bin at getmonero, the problem is when you rely on a package manager and a malicious actor fsck it there.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oups, monero sigs are from getmonero*** i hate phones lol

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If you dowbload manually the wallet directly from getmonero, you are safe (but it also got compromished one time afaik)

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> The website did, and the attacker replaced the files available for download

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> But anyone checking sigs would have noticed right away

Confirm hashes, do not trust getmonero :)

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Maybe its good that most distrib have an outdated monero package or none at all, it force you to get the one from getmonero or feather wallet directly

or maybe monero community members should be doing this stuff

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Who cares about accessibility, anyway?

and maybe somebody with a giant cache of monero who is also a core member should raise funds by hosting lotteries

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Ah yes, unlicenced gambling. The perfect way to look legitimate and lawful and not a total fucking scammer (on top of being a crypto project)

"unlicensed"

you mean like monero itself is unlicensed currency?

fuck off with your government bullshit

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> You can tell me to fuck off as much as you like, but that doesn't change the fact that some government[s] would use that as a further excuse to push harder against Monero

and i care why? monero cannot be stopped by governments

i would love it if they tried

it would only expose them as what they are and make people tune them out

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> "See, the devs are using it to promote their illegal gambling platform! They're all criminals! Arrest them!"

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> All I read is "oppress me harder daddy"

"if we used a perfectly legitimate and effective fund raising tool that literally every government also uses, governments would propagandize against us"

news flash bro. governments already propagandize against us

governments will never approve of monero

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> It's like you have a persecution fetish

youre the one asking for oppression

literally talking about licenses

rofl

thinking we need permission to raise funds

thinking we need permission to gamble

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Words bad, if you say them you bad too

thinking people are actually against gambling

most people love gambling. especially when the proceeds go to a good cause

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> We live outside world, world too scary

youre talking out of your ass, as usual

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> None of your "arguments" have anything to do with the issue I brought up

there is not a goddamn thing governments can do to stop monero lotteries

you brought up no issues specific to hosting lotteries

you brought up what governments ALREADY do and WILL NOT STOP doing

monero exists to get around them

still cant figure out why youre here, unless youre just a spy

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> And I'm sure you're the first one who has ever had this brilliant idea, and nobody else has ever thought of any reason why they might not want to do it

snex: yes, ideally you want monero community member to maintain monero packages for most distributions.

im sure i am, actually

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Lmao

im also the first one who ever had the idea to store a crypto seed in a deck of cards

getting commit permision on x and y distribution package manager is not that hard. For some other you send patch and someone else who have commit right do it for you (you have to trust them).

what brilliant ideas have YOU contributed? your ridiculous solar panel shit that will never come to fruition?

shouldnt you be working on that instead of sounding off in here all day?

Many people have different way to store there seeds. I won't tell mine because it's probably pretty unique too

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Funny you mentioned that, since I've been working on it a lot lately, and finally fixing some blocking issues

uh huh

more vaporware

maybe youd be able to afford to work on it if you raised funds via a lottery

oh but "gambling baaaaad"

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Who knew that writing an exact solution for an optimization algorithm could be hard, amirite?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> But I'm sure you know better

sometimes knowing which projects are worth working on is more important than knowing how to work on a specific project

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> The fact that you think I said "gambling bad" further proves your lack of reading comprehension :)

nobody WANTS your crap

oh so if you dont think its bad, stop begging like a bum and host a lottery to raise funds

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> endor00: working on some solar stuff, similar to mj or something like that?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I personally just forecast myself on zoom.earth then decide if it's running full bore or no.

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> If the people who donated all those xmr to the ccs are "nobody", then yes, "nobody" wants it

those people will never see any return for their donations

at least a lottery has winners even if you never deliver the product

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> RavFX 🤐: it was a collaboration, before he went haywire and fucked off

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Snex then why even bother working at all? Just live your life one lottery at a time. I'm sure we could feed the whole world off of lotteries even. Maybe you should write a ccs to support your brilliant research

can anybody explain what the fuck the above is supposed to mean?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> My project does this in a slightly more advanced way: it looks at the production forecast and network difficulty forecast, and then tries to mine when it's most profitable while also leaving a specified minimum energy in your batteries

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Ah yeah.,

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Mine auto cutoff when the pack drop under 60% after dark (I usually turn the mining off if I decide to do gaming)

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> It's a pretty simple concept on paper, but getting the implementation right (and *proving* that is indeed working correctly and not just spitting random numbers) is much harder

Has snex finished his lottery project yet?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> No I think he exit scammed us

its not my project. just an idea

if you werent a bunch of victorian prudes, youd be trying it

Are the ideas in the room with us now so we can try them?

Yeah snex either scammed us or his lottery is vaporware

Just bring Minko back

it would be vaporware if i had a big fancy website and a ccs with donations but had no product anywhere after years and years

I store my seeds in Cat's litter pan

I got the idea from a previous cat that was taking my $100 bills and burying them in his litter pan 1 by 1 :D

Great entertainment on this channel tonight. Worth every penny of the abo pay :)

I paid in wownero

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I checked all package manager I could check without loosing too much time.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The only one that pull monero directly from getmonero

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Is Gentoo and Windows.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But for Gentoo, it still compile from src and you can host patchs on the gentoo repo (that will be included in the compiled build)

<b​asses:matrix.org> meme

<b​asses:matrix.org> That infographic is outdated? monero.how/monero-infographic

<b​asses:matrix.org> are there any better ones?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Yeah