<frogmindset:matrix.org> i cant update the offical wallet to version 0.18.4.2 anyone know what may cause this?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Explain

what distro are you using

or at least, what OS are you using

what problem do you get when you try to update

<frogmindset:matrix.org> it just says download failed when i try to click the button to download the update

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what button

<frogmindset:matrix.org> the button that says download update??

does the monero wallet even have a self-updater?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Where

<frogmindset:matrix.org> i login in

<frogmindset:matrix.org> and there is a prompt

<frogmindset:matrix.org> saying an update is available

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> are you on windows?

<frogmindset:matrix.org> i click the button that says "download update"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The "download update" is inside of monero gui?

<frogmindset:matrix.org> and then red text appears saying "download failed"

are you on windows

<frogmindset:matrix.org> no

why are you updating from monero wallet then

<frogmindset:matrix.org> yes

<frogmindset:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: yes

the wallet must be trying to download to a file in a location it doesn't have permission in

you should try to update from your distro

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Cindy: i just saw the prompt saying to update

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> How did you install?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Flatpak, binary from getmonero.org, distro repository?

<frogmindset:matrix.org> went to getmonero.org/downloads and clicked the button saying "linux 64-bit"

<frogmindset:matrix.org> and downloaded the .tar file

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Strange. You should be able to update by following the same steps that you used to install

<frogmindset:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: they have a flatpak?? i wish i knew that before, that wouldve been so much easier

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Its on flathub, yeah

how did forgmindset install

frogmindset*

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Cindy_: from getmonero.org

<frogmindset:matrix.org> this > <@frogmindset:matrix.org> went to getmonero.org/downloads and clicked the button saying "linux 64-bit"

<frogmindset:matrix.org> also thanks for the new name lmao

<frogmindset:matrix.org> question, in what situation should i use each pool? i can use the main, mini, or nano and im not sure which i should use

main, if you have a very powerful computer (like in the MH/s range)

mini, if you have an average consumer computer

nano, if your computer is weak

<frogmindset:matrix.org> and how do i know if my computer is powerful enough for main?

try mining and note down your hashrate

<frogmindset:matrix.org> right now the blocks are syncing but its normally around 6-7k

then mini is the best for you

<frogmindset:matrix.org> what would be best for main? i got a pretty good pc

maybe the beefiest CPUs

like AMD threadrippers

and server CPUs

basically the ones that give 10 MH/s or so hashrate

<frogmindset:matrix.org> this is a 28 core cpu and im using 20 of them to mineso im surprised it cant go higher

<frogmindset:matrix.org> and at what hasrate should i use nano? i got an old pc i may use to mine but it isnt the best

meh

below 4KH/s

but you won't get anything in nano

since it has to find a block for you (or anyone) to get paid for their share

<frogmindset:matrix.org> then why even try mining in nano?

maybe it'll get a block someday

<frogmindset:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qIYWEwafnWLcLUhvRGxqWaHy.jpg (199.jpg)

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Literally this image then lol

monero mining is literally like that

99% of miners quit before they get a share

(jk)

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Cindy_: I managed to get 2 payouts in the span of 2 days then can't get anything else lol

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Wtf my old PC I wanted to mine on has over 200 GB worth of files in the system log file...

how much RAM does your PC have btw

old PC

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Uh give me a second

<frogmindset:matrix.org> I'm having to fix my PC lol

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Cindy_: Total is 31 GI free is 16GI

GB?

<frogmindset:matrix.org> 🤷

You can get Old threadrippers and epyc cpus for cheep on ebay

<frogmindset:matrix.org> I just gave you the exact output

if you can score a good deal on a mobo that suports them those are 100% worth it

<frogmindset:matrix.org> I did free -h in terminal

well 32 GB is fine

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Only 16 is free though

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Not sure why

<frogmindset:matrix.org> So my old PC's has is around 1400 H/s

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Is there even a chance I get anything lol

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Its using the p2p pool and the mini chain

i doubt it

Mining monero is not profitable in the slightest to my knowledge.

<frogmindset:matrix.org> So is it even worth bothering with

If you're gonna do it, it's gonna be based off of principle. Not becase it makes money.

but it should be profitable!

how do you encourage people to mine

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Colonizor48: At most I would use it to pay for my VPN lol

Nah being super profitable to mine just defeats the whole point of a cryptocurrency. Because it will tend towards centeralization then anyways.

Cindy_ Altruism/moral reasons/fucking hating banks.

i don't think it tend towards centralization

in fact it encourages people to mine for the rewards

It already has with basically every fucking proof of work cryptocurrency

no

that's only because of the ASIC makers

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Problem is most PC don't have a strong enough pc for then mining to even matter > <Cindy_> how do you encourage people to mine

who centralize a currency once they figure out how to optimize their algorithm to 5000x the performance (and drive out others)

Even without an ASIC, if it's profitable, than people who already have capital have an advantage in terms of mining. And thus will be able to buy more mining rigs and outcompete other people, and thus making the barrier to entry even higher, and thus making it less viable for individuals to mine and making them have less of an inpact, repeat.

frogmindset: if you stack together computers, it'll benefit more

Colonizor48: mining rigs? they can only buy more computers

But if it's not profitable, or not very profitable to mine, or just mining doesn't scale well, then the inverse happens. That gets rid of centeralized capital. And the people mining will be people who actually care about the project. Not people in it to make a quick buck.

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Cindy_: Issue is the average person doesn't have the money for that

Cindy_ those cost money regardless.

money costs money

"And the people mining will be people who actually care about the project. Not people in it to make a quick buck."

and then you don't get free hashrate

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Like I have a high end gaming PC with 28 core CPU and even its not able to mine much

getting a few for VPN should be fine

what is exactly stopping goverments from 51%ing the network with entire supercomputers

with 1400H/s, hmm, that's a tad bit low

<frogmindset:matrix.org> So most people mining would be useless

when you drive out the people who mine for profit

Cindy_ yeah thats a fundamental issue with the whole proof of work cryptocurrency idea

<frogmindset:matrix.org> DataHoarder: My gaming PC is in the 5000 range

see this nano.p2pool.observer/calculate-share-time?hashrate=1.4&magnitude=1000

5000-6000H is decent

They can do that regardless of profit miners too.

that's about $1 or so per month with 1.4KH/s

Colonizor48: the point being i do not care if someone mines for profit

They have way more resources

it is FREE HASHRATE == FREE PROTECTION

$5 or so per month with 5KH/s

<frogmindset:matrix.org> The thing is this is an expensive gaming PC so most people won't even want to mine with their nice gaming PC since they can't game as well

== free centeralization. Not worth it.

if you have cheap power, you can mine when not gaming

you can interrupt the process as often or long as you want

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Most people don't have cheap power

it's a memory-less process

Colonizor48: it is worth it, because you have competition too

it's not just one entity mining

otherwise for no-profit you are effectively buying monery with hashpower/energy

in secret :)

also if they mine on p2pool, there's practically no negatives

<frogmindset:matrix.org> So honestly mining just isn't viable for most people even if they could make money with it

it's more hashrate, and everyone can still participate

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Because electricity cost

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Cost of pc

if xmr mining would be profitable you'd have people renting all machines to mine

Cindy_ yeah. Anyone can participate. But the whole fucking point of a cryptocurrency is to be decenteralized.

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Their PC not working as well

and boom, suddenly difficulty goes up, not profitable

Capital incentive means that the existing centeralized monetary economy is gonna leak in.

not really

<frogmindset:matrix.org> DataHoarder: Isn't that basically what happened with bitcoin?

Exactly

with bitcoin, it was ASIC makers

And when btc runs out of mining rewards, it's going to instantly die

Colonizor48: you are barking up the wrong tree

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Bitcoin farms are just evil honestly with how much power they use

TRUE

the problems you are stating are the result of weak algorithms

that have been optimized into chips by ASIC makers

and so, making sure that the only way you could mine is to buy one of those expensive ass chips

I mean I'd argue that currencies do have a bit of a tendency to just tend towards centeralization. But monero is better than any currency i've seen in that regard so far.

from one of them

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Fun fact, folding@home used to be the most used program on PCs,until crypto currency came along

y'know what's the difference between monero and bitcoin? the algorithm is ASIC-resistant, which means these capital incentive people will still be playing on the same field as individual miners

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Then people instead of using their PC to help research decided to start trying to mine

yeah that's cringe tbh. I use my computer for a few things when i'm not using it. Sometimes cryptomining(for fun + to fuck over the government in whatever way I can), sometimes scientific computing stuff.

<frogmindset:matrix.org> It sucks programs like folding@home aren't being used as much anymore because of people's greed.

making mining more profitable does not make the currency more centralized

ASICs are what makes the currency more centralized

Also when I eventually get around to actually making music(not gonna formally release any. I'm going to distribute it by giving a zip file to anyone who asks + put it on bandcamp) I'll take donations in monero

Cindy_ Etherium lmao

ethereum literally same thing, when they were still using PoW at least

they were taken over by GPUs and ASICs

And honestly, if prices for SP3 motherboards ever crash, monero might be taken over by cheep server cpus on ebay

Currencies in general have a tendency to centeralized. Proof of work cryptocurrencies especially have a tendency to do that ironically. But monero seems to be the best in that regard(of not being centeralized)

It's the closest thing to an actual decenteralized currency i've seen

maybe because the algorithm was desiged to be GPU-weak and ASIC-resistant

<masayuki:wired.rehab> CPU PoW is the most accessible of the options

not because mining monero gives you jack shit

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Honestly are crypto currencies as a whole even viable? Since they are so volatile

frogmindset honestly valid question

it depends.

The origional point of crypto was to be a sort of countercurrency. But that's clearly long gone.

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Like what if monero just crashes and boom its worthless

and then here's the thing

Monero has an actual economy around it. Making that less likely to happen.

mining is literally the only way in monero to "print" new coins

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Colonizor48: Yeah but tbh it doesn't seem too well thought out

monero is volatile? lol

<masayuki:wired.rehab> What if USD crashes and boom its worthless

masayuki trump is any% speedruning that

imagine if you make that not profitable?

<frogmindset:matrix.org> nioc: I'm using it as an example since we are here lol but it applies to any

I mine because my Cat likes to lay on the rigs for heat

whence why i'm trying to figure out how to turn a lot of cash and stuff i have into monero(i need to make a bank account and start trading and stuff)

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Colonizor48: Monero proves that's not true

anyway i think mining should be profitable

cuz it's the only way for the currency to "print" new coins

masayuki monero is still somewhat centeralized though. There's no way for example that I could ever compete with any top miners in terms of hashrate.

<masayuki:wired.rehab> It is

<masayuki:wired.rehab> It just depends on variable factors

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Also right now monero isn't adopted enough to be really useful as a currency, same with almost all crypto

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Colonizor48: You don't need to compete with top miners

Monero has the biggest economy around it i've seen for a crypto

<masayuki:wired.rehab> That's why there's pools and xmraffle

you literally do not need to compete with the giant miners

there is p2pool

And again, Monero is the most egalitarian example of a currency i've seen

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Colonizor48: I haven't seen anywhere you can actually use monero, bitcoin, or any other crypto

your idea is that bigger miners == more centralization

you get paid for whatever HR you have

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Contribute what you can, get your share

<masayuki:wired.rehab> @frogmindset:matrix.org: Have you tried opening your eyes?

proportionally

<frogmindset:matrix.org> @masayuki:wired.rehab: What does that even mean?? I haven't seen anywhere except the VPN I use taking it

yes it's not much

<masayuki:wired.rehab> @frogmindset:matrix.org: Monerica son

if you start thinking big miners bad, because more centralization, then it will kill the currency

gift cards

<masayuki:wired.rehab> There's thousands of businesses and vendors

<frogmindset:matrix.org> @masayuki:wired.rehab: ???

<masayuki:wired.rehab> GOOGLE

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Youre either retarded or purposefully being as ignorant as possible to derail productive conversation

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Either way gtfo

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Can I not ask a question???

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Im new to monero and crypto as a whole dude

"[XMR] Be excellent to each other and welcoming to newcomers"

true please do tht

reminder that this is in the topic, matrix users

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Great way to make people not feel wanted

stop being a dick

masayuki

<frogmindset:matrix.org> By harassing them for asking quesrions

Cindy_: that is on IRC but probably not matrix

Don't be a financebro :3

<masayuki:wired.rehab> @frogmindset:matrix.org: I gave you an answer and you replied with three question marks

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Use you're head at least an ounce of it

<masayuki:wired.rehab> I will chill out, monerica is a website

<frogmindset:matrix.org> @masayuki:wired.rehab: Because it literally looked like nonsense, I would've appriated some context added

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Check out xmrbazaar too

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Like saying check out this website

<frogmindset:matrix.org> That I would've appricated

xmrbazaar is full of AI slop

most of xmrbazzar is bs

i'm gonna be honest

it is HARD to market xmrbazaar with all the garbage AI slop postings

<masayuki:wired.rehab> I've found quality vendors for buying accounts and silver coins

<masayuki:wired.rehab> No different than FB marketplace with the amount of fake ads honestly

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Much better experience than FB marketplace or Craigslist honestly

i have never seen an AI slop post in FB marketplace

this is legit xmrbazaar.com/listing/TxaU

nor craigslist

but i have seen a LOT in xmrbazaar

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Cindy_: There's tons of fake ads and scam ads

Anyone here like microtonal music

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Why does it not surprise me that I can buy tf2 keys for monero lmao

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Air thumbnails are annoying but that's.. About it..

Can I seel TF2 keys for monero

sell

Because wait

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Yes

MONEY LAUNDERING TIME :#

:3

if i were the moderator of xmrbazaar

<masayuki:wired.rehab> You can sell just about anything for monero

i'd make it so that posts with AI-generated pictures or descriptio

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Damn I wish I knew that ack when I did tf2 trading

Femboy thigh picks for monero

should be deranked

<masayuki:wired.rehab> That would be an improvement

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Theres many other marketplaces to choose from

FINALLY A NO KYC WAY TO GET MONERO LETS GO

i'm gonna be honest, seeing the 100000th "I will X" post with a garbage picture

<masayuki:wired.rehab> Xmrbazaar is just the most active and general atm

or even a "I will draw.." post with ironically, an AI-generated image

i wanna set these posts on fire

where do i buy/sell tf2 items for crypto

wait

monero particulalrly

<frogmindset:matrix.org> I do not need to go back into tf2 trading lol, that sucked to do

<masayuki:wired.rehab> There's individual sellers/buyers for csgo items but no dedicated website for it

frogmindset nah i'm just going to use it to do a money laundering ahh operation to turn visa giftcards into monero

inb4 Colonizor48 works as an indian tech support scammer and they get grandpas to buy these visa giftcards

istg i'm not :sob:

I'd never hurt an innocent person like tht

saar, why did u redeeem

<frogmindset:matrix.org> is there any way to turn physical cash into monero?

find someone who has monero and wants physical cash

or hell, use the money to buy more computers

and mine monero on them, combined

<masayuki:wired.rehab> @frogmindset:matrix.org: listings on haveno for cash by mail

<frogmindset:matrix.org> @masayuki:wired.rehab: how does that work though, like how would i get the monero also whats stopping someone from just stealing the cash

it's multisig

basically, the monero is deposited into a wallet that requires 2 signatures for any transaction to be valid

<frogmindset:matrix.org> im stupid, how does taht help?

they can't steal the monero easily

it's 2/3 btw, it's you, the seller, and an arbitrator

even if they take the cash and run, they cannot take back the monero they deposited into the multisig wallet

and the arbitrator will sign a transaction for you

<frogmindset:matrix.org> One more question, what's the beat way to store monero, like is just keeping it in the official wallet fine

i mean.. yeah

that's it

<frogmindset:matrix.org> Because I know there are cold wallets

you could use a hardware token that stores the sign key of your wallet

while the wallet program only has the view key