<sgp_> Sorry for helping to audit Monero FCMP, my bad magicgrants.org/2025/08/05/Veridise-Gadgets-Circuit

<sgp_> Sorry for supporting the Monero Fund's projects to fuzz Monero and patch daemon bugs magicgrants.org/2025/11/17/Monero-RPC-Fuzzing

<sgp_> Also sorry for making the first light wallet that didn't completely suck (with respect to MyMonero)[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/h-nn3OkKSkFnWVAy ]

<sgp_> Next time you can sign for the audit contracts

oops, triggered

so is this goodbye? or are you just humblebragging

I mean, the level of self-importance required to think that it's ok to undermine monero's privacy if you've contributed enough to the project is pretty bonkers

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> How tf has Justin worked to sabotage Monero from within

by the way, I'm not saying that's it's not OK to try to break monero. by all means, please do! but to pretend to be playing on both teams at once is either delusional or just outright sleazy

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Literally has been a massive contributor to the organization of FCMP++ to the point it'd be months behind without his efforts.

kayabanerve: is he sabotaging it? I'm not sure. I know it's in his job description though.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> One can work to analyze Monero as-is and work to make Monero harder to analyze. Even Rucknium has worked on tracing Monero _as part of hardening Monero_.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Lmao

and afaik rucknium has released his results. is sgp's flagship tracing tool open sourced? isn't that why NAXO bought his firm?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm sorry, I forgot Justin's job was propagandist of the regime

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> How silly of me /s

his job is Senior Director of a blockchain surveillance firm

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> The only thing sabotaging the project right now is you calling out a key contributor to FCMP++ as a saboteur with no actual basis.

his job makes him a saboteur by definition

prove otherwise

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> ... and that doesn't mean SGP has done anything to make the Monero protocol itself easier to analyze, and their track record speaks immensely in the opposite direction?

are you saying that any other BS person who came would be scrutinized, but since it's SGP he gets a pass based on his prior contributions?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> If you want to make up responsibilities to go with a title and attack key contributors who have a track record of improving Monero's privacy, one I'd find impeccable, that's on you.

contributing tech or money doesnt reverse anything. it's not a one dimensional direction thing

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Am I saying the person with a lengthy, proven track record, who doesn't have a single recommendation or action I could consider as potential sabotage, who has massively moved Monero along and does so this day, shouldn't be criticized for their employment?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Yes?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> We literally can judge sgp's history, work, and find it impeccable and monumental?

your list naturally wouldnt include any examples of sabotage if i asked you to share it, would it ?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Are you saying any association with the idea of blockchain surveillance should leave you permanently and irrevocably blacklisted from the community?

being employed by a BS firm is a far cry from "any association with the idea" of blockchain surveillance

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Does that mean Rucknium should be blacklisted? ArticMine as they took a course to become educated on it?

SGP needs to decide what team he's playing on. he can't play on both teams at once.

and in my mind he's already decided

again, Rucknium has released all of his results and his tools are public. the same cannot be said for SGP

kayabanerve: how much of the funds you've raised for FCMP have been cashed out through SGP's Magic? I'd say you're in a highly dependent position and it does not look good for you to be defending him here. you're far from unbiased.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Analyzing Monero as it is does not mean one must tip the scales re: Monero, and to suggest SGP is tipping the scales against Monero as a contributor here is insane when there's no direct evidence to that and immense evidence to the contrary.

for the record, afaict ArticMine has been highly critical of SGP's dual roles and his influence in MRL

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Wait, I'm sorry, Justin helping Monero development re: finances through an American nonprofit means I cannot comment on Justin?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Then no one can in the entire community. Everyone benefited from the organizational support

whether or not someone lies at all about a thing and misleads others is what makes them a saboteur of it or not - not everyone can tell if something is a lie or not - and who is recording every detail of history ?

kayabanerve: you directly benefited. have you received payments from Magic?

kabaya missed my question

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> No?

ok, just clarifying

how much of the funds you've raised for fcmp have been paid out through Magic?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I have never received payments from MAGIC nor payments via MAGIC except a reimbursement for an expense I made re: MAGIC.

Justin's continued involvement in a critical area like FCMP risks undermining trust in the upgrade and potentially the whole project

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Do you mean how much of the funds the Monero community raised for FCMP++ R&D have been paid to partners, agreed upon by MRL discussion, with MAGIC as facilitator at the market rate?

sure, that's a bloated way of saying it. how much?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I would have to check how much we've been helped and not forced to use an alternative classical financial backend who historically would charge 3-7%.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Because someone can be put up for a witch hunt, you want to put them up for the witch hunt now, so they aren't involved and can't be put up for a witch hunt later?

alright. you two obviously have a working relationship and I appreciate your feedback regarding Justin's current and historical contributions.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> ... I have a working relationship with all Monero developers if you want to be so vague

With all Monero developers

you are reliant on Justin's MAGIC for the disbursement of funds related to your work. is this correct?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> But feel free to arbitrarily claim me biased, not like any of this has any actual logic behind it

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> No

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> But feel free to keep assuming things like you have been so far. Not like any of this has had a shred of evidence.

I asked a question that you couldn't answer. so I'll ask again. what % of the funds ypihave been disbursed through him?

funds you've raised for FCMP have been disbursed through him/MAGIC?*

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I already said I don't know off the top of my head. You can go tally it yourself if you care.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Every single payment from the FCMP++ R&D fund was approved within MRL.

I know it's not an insignificant amount since he just bragged about it

anyway, I appreciate you stepping in and making your voice heard. a majority of the people who have commented on the issue have not been as supportive of Justin's dual roles.

I'll reiterate that his continued involvement is undermining trust in your work as well, and by extension the project as a whole

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> To restate:

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> - FCMP++ has been assisted by MAGIC w.r.t. contracting and handling payments. MAGIC has never been required to be used, but when they do help, they do so without charging a fee.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> - I have not been paid by MAGIC for any of my work on Monero nor have they facilitated payments for any of my work on Monero.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> - I have no active entanglements with MAGIC, nor even JE personally, other than whatever scopes of work are ongoing FCMP++.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/3oXb3ekKRHBCVGxx ]

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm not even saying sgp cannot be questioned. To accuse them on actively working on sabotaging Monero, with no actual evidence though? Ffs

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I have more evidence in front of me that you're sabotaging Monero, geonic:

the evidence that he's potentially working on sabotaging monero is right here: naxo.com/who-we-are

if you'd like to put blinkers on and pretend it's OK because you've known him for a number of years, that's OK. perhaps you can hire him to work on Serai with you. but Monero is not your personal sandbox.

geonic is a long time troll, best you can do is put him on /ignore

<omurad:matrix.org> geonic: I’m curious, what is your proposed resolution here? A contribution ban on those associated with entities trying to break Monero?

probably only person in the project i had on /ignore since almost the beginning

<321bob321> Been a while

<sgp_> In more fun news, xmrig is now on the TrueNAS store as well. I'm mining Monero on my NAS when the cores aren't doing anything else, with p2pool and monerod running locally as well. It requires an extra command line step I'll explain in a post tomorrow

omurad: I don't think we need to ban anyone. I also don't think that prior contributions should be used to whitewash conflicting loyalties.

treat him like any chainalysis employee, etc. with courtesy and vigilance. :)

btw here's some good actionable advice that sgp won't follow ofc: i.imgur.com/Fle7fmS.jpeg

I mean, you might be able to pick stronger arguments

geonic

i just meant in general

feel free to add to what I've said

best not to give them chaff they can pretend counterargues the problem

onlookers dont realize

so i guess education for them is best

and as for me adding stuff

you said he's sabotaging

potentially*. the potential is enough though.

if there's something to sabotage, it will listen to you as well if you collect all your findings

i'm not arguing it

i'm just saying

assume it's true

first, yes, there'd have to be something to sabotage in the first place

how can someone who intends to infiltrate something not have to appear legit

that's bc you're worried about a legit thing (monero) being sabotaged

so if it is legit then it'll consider your findings if you have them

so i recommend collecting them - dont spend your rare energy on convincing ppl you say are already bad news

that's self betrayal in a way

monero ostensibly needs you to keep yourself away from that so you can do the work

i mean how do we know you're not sabotaging the "sgp is sabotaging" movement by not collecting your findings first lol

but for real

let's take intelligence agencies for example. who do they recruit as assets? people with established reputations. Justin is a person with an established reputation in the Monero community. he wasn't approached by surveillance companies. he actively sought them out. he quit his job at Cake to start a BS firm and eventually found a willing buyer,

surely not without effort.

did NAXO just buy his proprietary tracing tool or did they also buy a trusted person in the community who can help them implement certain changes? and was his reputation as a monero contributor a part of his pitch deck to NAXO? I'm curious.

is Justin on the clock at his day job when contributing to Monero? we'll never know. the suspicion is enough, which is why, if he didn't lack self-awareness, he would step away and cash his checks quietly. but here he is, contributing away, and here I am, talking about it :)

you should think about it as if you're a researcher though. You kind of have to make a responsible disclosure. You should make a blog post and collect things and then the community can discuss. If the thing that you're trying to protect is legit, then people will pay attention , for the same reason that you did

I mean, put it like this. Not everybody realizes when they're doing something wrong.

some of the people involved might not realize what they were doing if what you're saying is true

that's gotta be hard for someone to process

they would need the ability to hold seemingly contradictory truth in mind simultaneously ... they might need the benefit of your already having done so

truths *

<omurad:matrix.org> I completely agree, but calling him "monerogestapo" and claiming he's "actively working on sabotaging monero from within" is not "courtesy and vigilance" > <geonic> treat him like any chainalysis employee, etc. with courtesy and vigilance. :)

<321bob321> Lucky where opensauce

I only talked about a hypothetical such monerogestapo, but he outed himself with his response :)

endogenic: honestly, if someone doesn't see the problem with developing proprietary surveillance software while continuing to contribute to monero is problematic, then they're beyond help. it's the old "I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry" scenario. thankfully, enough people do.

doesn't see why*

It doesn't seem like you believe it's enough

let me rephrase that

it seems like a part of you believes that there are enough people and a part of you also doesn't believe that

<omurad:matrix.org> It would be problematic to me if he was e.g. a core maintainer

endogeonic: you're probably right. although I'd say that my main goal is disclosure, not convincing those who believe sgp is beyond reproach

lol @ endogeonic :D

yes... the geonic which originates from itself...

lol

<shortwavesurfer2009> I totally missed this article because it was released right at the beginning of MoneroTopia. But anti-moonboy brought it to my attention, and it is really good.

<shortwavesurfer2009> archive.ph/mun7S

<shortwavesurfer2009> Or he reads it aloud and reacts here: youtube.com/watch?v=f2NUKjOKr5I&t=3257

<snjya:matrix.org> Hey at SGP, tried out the new wallet. Looks nice.

<basses:matrix.org> @snjya:matrix.org: skylight?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<sgp_> @snjya:matrix.org: Thanks! Let me know if there's anything else you want to see with it

<snjya:matrix.org> My seeds are 24 words, is there a converter to the 16 words that skylight is using?

default for monero wallets is 25 words

that is for CLI and GUI

<snjya:matrix.org> The last word "abnormal" is twice, so 24 words, isn't it?

<snjya:matrix.org> Anyways, how do I get 16 words from it?

If it supports creating via keys, you could do that and ask it for the seed.

the last word is a checksum so yes it is always one of the first 24 words

<snjya:matrix.org> moneromooo: So I use the 24+1 seeds, obtain keys, put that keys in another wallet and export seeds from that.. Did I get it right?

Yes. If that wallets can use keys directly.

<snjya:matrix.org> moneromooo: Thanks. Will my 25 words seeds remain the same after the planned upcoming block chain split?

geonic: people believe sgp is beyond reproach? I didn't know he had yet removed his head from up sarang's ass

MAGIC was always a money grab for those involved

not too long ago I saw surae claiming he's been working on monero since 2012, which is kinda crazy to think about.