<death757toz:matrix.org> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: Ty

<death757toz:matrix.org> Idk what comes with graphene but it sucks

<death757toz:matrix.org> 😁

<whengodhates757youwillknow:matrix.org> 👍🏻

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: what is the point of having some dude scan my stuff when i can just do it myself and faster

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @death757toz:matrix.org: Probably plain AOSP keyboard. I'm forced to use it thanks to my banking app not liking any non CIA approved™ third party keyboard app.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> :D we've successfully turned #monero into #monero-offtopic

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: +1. But also, i find is demeaning to have someone else stand in one spot for 8 hours treated like the best they can do is scanning my groceries

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> There are some jobs that only exist to make peopke waste their lives doing npc shit, and i don't like it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Should the service exist? Sure. There are people that need it, or some shopping outlets that sell items that need to be processed manually. Like, i dont expect to be allowed to self-checkout a laptop or some guns

<0xdosto:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx Can you check the DMs?

<0xdosto:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:monero.social^

<0xdosto:matrix.org> OfrnTheCIA 😁

<0xdosto:matrix.org> @0xdosto:matrix.org: (Joking)

moneromooo | By socially mediated, I mean the, well, mob pile-on. AI is one of the current things that society has decided it's OK to hate. <- NGL I agree with that. Like, there are some things that are just commonly considered deplorable in general.

moneromooo | It seems anything is ok if you're bashing those, and THAT is not ok. <- Excuse me? Why is hating those groups considered okay? You'd be ostracized for dispespect.

Like, racism/transphobia IS one of the thing we kinda lean towards being universally unacceptable.

"They are treated as an homogenous thing based on their being <- But AI output isn't comparable to people. We're talking specifically about video/image/audio slop. Also, I would treat it as more homogenous indeed.

but I really don't like the concentration of AI usage in the Monero circles <- YES. I don't see it that concentrated, but granted, I don't hang out in specialized spaces that much. I really am puzzled by this.

I completely understand the love for goop in cryptobros - they're not there for any technology, they're there for the grift, and grift and goop go together like peanut butter and jelly. But when we're talking about actual useful technology?..

XMRBazaar being a big example, with slop right on the front page. And the saddest thing is that I have seen a thread where they are accepting suggestions for a new banner! And a lot of the suggestions are slop too. I closed the thread in disgust before I could see whether someone pointed it out. NGL kinda tempted to register there and point out the AI-ness of every submission.

Well, as someone else mentioned above, I might be getting the wrong idea because I see things filtered by the internet and media, but it seems to be there is a very large part of people who consider hating these groups to be ok. A growing one indeed. But yes, since the msm is driving (or at least complicit in) this, it might be they're exagerating the scope.

On the other hand... I think I'm more motivated now to go on learning to draw. That's something I wanted to do for so long and now i understand that even my scribbles are better than AI.

be there is a very large part of people who consider hating these groups to be ok. <- Fair, it's kinda hard to be certain about the broader situation because we're more familiar with our bubbles. I mostly see the "it's okay to hate" in propaganda on TV.

But okay, nvm, not really comfortable talking more about that because of the local laws.

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> Guys, I have a couple of monero-and-macroeconomics discussions that I would like to have with you guys. Is this the proper channel or do I post them elsewhere?

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> By macro, I mean the legacy world macro. Eg, the need to promulgate digital eurs by EUSSR to prevent capital flight into USD pegged Stable coins on AECs...

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> You know.. Things like that. Is there a channel to discuss them?

Sure, here is fine.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> > <BlueyHealer> XMRBazaar being a big example, with slop right on the front page. And the saddest thing is that I have seen a thread where they are accepting suggestions for a new banner! And a lot of the suggestions are slop too. I closed the thread in disgust before I could see whether someone pointed it out. NGL kinda tempted to register there and point out the AI-ness of every submission.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Went through the same thing.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Literally why would they bother to open banner suggestions if they would be okay with generated slop, you AI brain rotten retards..

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> moneromooo: Thank you, I will poast the points of discussion here. Xoxo

Yeah, that's not just about the self-respect. That's about seeming illegitimate.

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> 1/5 According to Dollar Milkshake Theory, in the next few decades, USD and USD pegged stable coin usage will very likely eclipse national currency usage. This is kind of good news for the Burgers but bad news for those living in USSR and worse news for those living in shitholes, I mean Developing and Frontier market economies. [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/qfzDvPYKSEVSVk5h ]

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> 2/5 When a government looses control over the usage of fiat within its borders it will soon loose control over those who are governed. To prevent plebs, I mean the population, from protecting their household buying power by moving from the shiat currencies (national fiat) to kingshiat (USD), the governments will rely on their [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/vPrHvPYKR1JCODFK ]

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> 3/5 This is where the programmable CBDCs come in - in a single shot, it solves all the problems that the governments have in controlling the unwashed. So I kind of see that the governments HAVE to implement CBCDs for their own survival. Do you this if my reasoning is correct? Also, to prevent a cross-sector runaway inflation t [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/8InKvPYKVzR2NU1i ]

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> 3. or worse, shut every control system in place and play the role of a base currency in a parallel black/gray economy

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> 5/5 is bad to national systems. And it apeears that national CBDCs are the only way out for the governments. What do you think? Please point out to any flaws in the inferences of the hypothesis. Thanks.

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> ..so unregulated stable coins and anonymous cryptocurrencies are apparently an *existential* threat to the control systems in place. This thought shook me. Please tell me if I am wrong.

well. if you can freely buy the king fiat with your local shitcoin

and get a usd yield.. wow

with the energy crisis they could use it to implement personal cbdc rationing

the poors could get a crypto wallet as well.. but how do you enforce the national shitcoin

if nobody wants to hold it

with cbdc you destroy convertibility between currencies

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> Entropy is the prime enemy of any complex system. When a large number of people are to be ruled by the small number of people, the enemy is not the 'masses uniting and fighting back' (its too improbable) but some members of the ruler-class or rulers of another country riling up a part of your masses by creating entropy.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_KPBvfYKdHE2Mlpz ]

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Highly doubt USD would be the currency of choice with the trajectory America is going through.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> In any case, interesting theory. What about the country that has the currency itself ? Like if we go with america, do they also switch to CDBCs ? Or just shitholes.

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> The quickest way to reduce entropy in a society (or any complex system, for that matter) is to introduce distinguishability of the constitutents. Stable coin usage / parallel currencies usage is the quickest way to introduce an escape hatch for a population and hence create entropy in a collective. One way to prevent any of th [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/0vTEvfYKSWg4cFdP ]

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: USD is baaaad... Other fiats are worseeee.. USD is the de facto global reserve currency even after Breton woods broke in 1971. Shitholes first. Murica later.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I'm having a hard time picturing this, let's do examples. What shitholes do you have in mind where on one hand, they're collapsed enough that their people will want to use the globul currency, and on the other, still technologically progressive that they can enrol CBDCs ?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> It'd be for other purposes, but I have feeling EU and China will be the first to do CBDCs before he rest.

<eddie:oblak.be> China is already doeing CBDCs, for couple of years

<eddie:oblak.be> In US and EU cbdc's are stablecoins

<eddie:oblak.be> USDC and USDT are effectively controlled by the government through regulations. Wallets/funds can get frozen easily.

<eddie:oblak.be> In Europe there's less liauidity, but EURe and EURc are regulated stable coins also with freeze functions.

<eddie:oblak.be> So I don't believe "separate" cbdc's will be introduced.

<eddie:oblak.be> I spoke to a guy involved with EURe, they are trying to drive adoption OUTSIDE the EU, not inside

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: As examples, TRY and INR are so collapsed relative to DXY, USD and XAU.. Their plebs want to use EUR/USD but their central banks are speedrunning towards a CBDC.

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @eddie:oblak.be: My dad works for Nintendo, too. EU introduced wero as a step towards fast payments - the precursor to cbdc plumbing.

<eddie:oblak.be> Regarding digital ID, it remains to be seen how it will be implemented, but I can imagine that there are ways to forge fake digital id's.

<eddie:oblak.be> Maybe easier than paper id's. I don't know

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: All in all, your friend is kinda right because French central banks will be happy its colonies adopt eEUR instead of a USD stable coin.

<eddie:oblak.be> Exactly

<eddie:oblak.be> In Europe there's already regulated e-money, which can be euro on blockchain.

<eddie:oblak.be> It's not very expensive to get such a license

<eddie:oblak.be> But providers of e-money must obviously do strict KYC checks and all that nonsense

<eddie:oblak.be> You can get an IBAN nowadays where you send money to which is converted automatically to EURe

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> e-money is *functionally* different from a eEUR. The former does not come with a granular lever. Granularity is the game here.

<eddie:oblak.be> (Or even other cryptocurrency)

<eddie:oblak.be> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: E-money is just the legal framework AFAIK, its not a specific currency

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> Forge digital id? U srs? We have BankID here. Not much different from EUID. > <@eddie:oblak.be> Regarding digital ID, it remains to be seen how it will be implemented, but I can imagine that there are ways to forge fake digital id's.

<eddie:oblak.be> @eddie:oblak.be: (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Money_Directive)

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> Ofc

<eddie:oblak.be> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: I don't know. I haven't seen an eID in real life...

<eddie:oblak.be> BankID never heard of this before.

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @eddie:oblak.be: Oh we use it here everyday. We can't even take a dump without authing with it first.

<eddie:oblak.be> During covid there was Covid Safe Ticket

<eddie:oblak.be> The keys to issue got leaked. And suddenly Adolf Hitler had a valid CST

<eddie:oblak.be> That's why I think these systems can have vulnerabilities

<svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @eddie:oblak.be: Me thinks vulns are features, not bugs. Anyways.. What do you think of the two theses posted earlier?

For Covid, we had QR codes some places had to check for vaccination. Given that this checks with a server, this is horrifying, glad this hasn't lasted. I did not use one despite being vaccinated, having a voncrete record of places you visit is scary. Like, I know there's phone location data and such, but this is like what social media normally do vs. outright age(identity) verification, still way worse and more exact.

<eddie:oblak.be> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: I don't 100% understand what exactly are the 2 theses.