<demycode:mehdibekhtaoui.com> Hello

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> Any phone and operating suggestions? Apple seems to be getting compromised with government laws

<intr:unredacted.org> refurbished Pixel with GrapheneOS

Why refurbished?

Like, that's secondhand! That's kinda worn already.

like, the storage would be already more worn, and you don't know if the battery was replaced with a "good" one.

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: Refurbishers are usually bizz, therefore it'd be easier to hold them accountable, unlike individual sellers, I suspect that's why interloper used that specific word

any pixel device running GrapheneOS

Can't you get a phone from a business as well?

Why individual? Individuals usually sell used.

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: And liberated it yourself, I suppose?

<gan:skhron.org> it'd be cheaper to get used than from a retailer

Like, here they aren't sold officially, so sold by both individuals on marketplaces and some resellers. They do oftentimes have more unfair return policies than big box stores, though.

<intr:unredacted.org> considering the embarrassingly high prices for flagship pixels, reburbished is better bang for your buck

<intr:unredacted.org> also you can get them without sim lock

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: And liberated it yourself, I suppose? <- You mean the OS install? Of course. It'd be kinda sus to get it preinstalled, and preinstalled ones usually charge for that.

Also yeah, I got mine for $300 and that was indeed painful. Would prefer that over a more worn device secondhand, though. And that one was the previous year's model, the current ones were fully unaffordable indeed. Now Pixel 8 is around that price point, and 7's are around $200 at that place.

Can't you get a sealed devices without sim lock if you don't get it through a carrier? Also that seems like an American thing because I don't remember having this issue even when buying in a carrier's store.

Also yeah I know I'm privileged, but I have saved money over the months instead of risking it more with secondhand devices.

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: Brokey mindset, I buy everything used, zero risks 🧌

But I mean there's a bit more risk to it, no? And the components would come used, with maybe damage you don't know about. Like, a sealed phone can have that too, but with a less chance.

Like, I am just kinda frustrated with the obsession of getting Pixels used specifically.

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> What do you mean by bizz? Business? > <@gan:skhron.org> Refurbishers are usually bizz, therefore it'd be easier to hold them accountable, unlike individual sellers, I suspect that's why interloper used that specific word

I think yes

(also yeah I kinda feel bad typing this because I feel very privileged)

Also yeah, the price on launch are absolutely egregious and even I can't afford that! Thankfully they do drop in price over time very noticeably, but even then the reasonably new one was $300, which even for me was a VERY painful sum, even though I'm in no way poor.

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> The upside of buying a second hand phone would be you can buy it cash from a private seller and it might be more private than buying from a merchant, who might have cctv and cardhistory of your purchase

<gan:skhron.org> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: Businesses*, bizz is usually treated as a mass noun

But you can buy in cash from a normal store too, no? And the individual sellers are usually selling through the sites, and at least the marketplaces here are very likely to KYC an account.

Like, I know a popular one is Facebook in some countries, and they KYC consistently. The big secondhand website here is apparently really likely to mark your number as a rental and demand KYC. Like, regular people are unlikely to just have a shop out there. And again - less guarantees, at least a refurbisher would be better about this and is more likely to have a physical presence.

I have seen phones sold at the makeshift market I buy berries at, but they tend to be like a decade old and I'd be afraid about at least some of them being stolen.

<assholeorangecat:matrix.org> my used thinkpad smells like the previous owner does the job though everyone has different wants and needs

<tsjk:matrix.org> This was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing. > <@sbt:nope.chat> probelab.io/blog/peering-into-priva…ve-into-the-monero-network-topology

I don't have an issue with people buying used, I just have an issue with people being seemingly obsessed with it and advising it.

<pw:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: Well that's your issue, not everyone else's.

<pw:xmr.mx> Here's why it is a preference for many people.

<pw:xmr.mx> Usually, selling old electronics to a store like a pawnshop will require ID - as well as physical inspections of said devices.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/rqvzzPwKN0dNTnBO ]

<ravfx:xmr.mx> You do know that you need to write something like 30GB everyday for like 5 years to go thru the storage right? > <BlueyHealer> like, the storage would be already more worn, and you don't know if the battery was replaced with a "good" one.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Or more like 10 for smaller one. But still. Thats a lot (for a phone, I thing)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I expect the storage to be the last thing to go.

<gogo2464:matrix.org> hello I am looking for both a max of DEX and CEX to buy monero from visa please?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I would worry more about hidden liquid damage or if the device had issue before and got fixed then sold right after

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @gogo2464:matrix.org: You wont be able to buy from a dex with something reversible like visa.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Only some KYC CEX accept them because its high risk payment method

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Maybe onlly kraken still have the monero and accept visa? (Only in select countries)

<pw:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: Well that's your issue, not everyone else's <- I mean when someone goes in not knowing anything, this being the first advice.

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Can you buy monero from kraken and send those monero to a wallet?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I would worry more about hidden liquid damage or if the device had issue before and got fixed then sold right after <- yeah, might've been less cirret thinking about stirage just because it degrades and is not feasible to replace. But yeah, indeed, was mostly thinking of miscellaneous damage.

<gan:skhron.org> That's why people here recommended refurbishers, they're rarely provide devices with heavy damage

<pw:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: Like I said. Everything is inspected before the store buys it off of someone. Internally and externally

<ravfx:xmr.mx> yeah.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I only buy used phone

<ravfx:xmr.mx> my current phone, I paid like 150$ for it, 3 years ago

<ravfx:xmr.mx> often actual refirb are undamanged phone that just got wiped and resold

Fair, just don't like it as more universal advice.

Yeah, the fact that you can't really check is concerning too.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: yes

<gan:skhron.org> A person could either consume free information, that's freely available online, or slave away their time to pay more

<gan:skhron.org> All of the stuff that I own is bought used as well

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: A universal advice is to stop existing instead of actually learning stuff to be fair

<ravfx:xmr.mx> if Monero is available in your region (Kraken don't have monero in all regions)

gan, that's rude and unproductive

<pw:xmr.mx> Hardly rude. Why do you take everything so personally. Chill

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Kyc monero > 1st wallet monero> 2nd wallet monero. Is the first or second wallet monero still kyc ?

<pw:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: You asked all this the other day, no?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: the first monero wallet isnt kyc (except if you send the monero back to Kraken (EAE)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> you can send it back to yourself in the same wallet (don't need a second wallet) if you want to distance you from the kraken tx

<ravfx:xmr.mx> ^ That will be irrelevent once FCMP finally get deployed

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @pw:xmr.mx: I did ask the other day. But it was btc to monero. Now I’m wondering if sending money from monero monero would have a chance to change from kyc to non kyc. My apologies, i genuinely trying to learn, not trying to be annoying

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: That’s very interesting. This method is better than buying monero with bitcoin from swap. Its more expensive. Kraken would sell us the monero at the market price. And if i can send that kraken monero to my wallet and if that becomes non kyc, thats amazing

I mean that "advice" sounded like "kill yourself", which is universally considered VERY shocking and offensive.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ravfx:xmr.mx: This

<pw:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: Yeah I thought it was BTC > XMR, what rav said will apply to that situation once that BTC becomes XMR.

So yeah, my point is theres absolutely nothing wrong with people purchasing 2nd hand, for electronics or anything else or even advertising sales. <- absolutely! Just that it's odd to recommend as the first choice. I'd rather go for an older model that has decreased in price but was not used.

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: As I've stated, a person is either could look up the stuff online freely, be it forums like xda, services like YouTube, use up their time to pay less, or they could work "harder", have less time and pay the "full price", that's kinda the reality of it

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: To be fair, it's up to you to interpret it in such simple way :\

<intr:unredacted.org> older models are closer to being EOL

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If the older model was sitting in a box with a 0% battery for 5 years, then no, id prefer a used one

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: Buying liberated devices in general often means buying them used, there's no way around it

<intr:unredacted.org> (and also not sold anymore)

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx@pw:xmr.mx just checked, kraken don’t have xmr in the country

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: There is something else you might want to consider, EABE (will also be irrelevent once FCMP hit)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> If you buy from kraken, withdraw, send to bob, and bob send to it kraken... they won't know you send the monero to Bob. But if you do it many time, kraken will get more and more certain that you send monero to bob

<intr:unredacted.org> I don't think they sell models at 0% battery

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: "Kraken" is just an example

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He want to buy monero with Visa

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Does MEXC accept visa? They still have the monero afaik

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Never heard those terms EABE and FCMP before. I’ll do some google search and will find out what that is

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: youtube.com/watch?v=iABIcsDJKyM

<ravfx:xmr.mx> [Breaking Monero Episode 09: Poisoned Outputs (EAE Attack)]

<intr:unredacted.org> older models are closer to being EOL <- yeah, but not by much, depends on which. And if you see a current one secondhand - wouldn't that be suspicious? Like, I'd think that at least some of them were being sold due to issues.

also yeah 5 years is too much, I don't think any of such are supported right now.

<intr:unredacted.org> why would it be suspicious, people buy a new phone every year

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Good phone get community support for longer, anyway, when you liberate it you won't be using the official rom that stop get supported after 3 years anymore

<intr:unredacted.org> I feel like you're looking for reasons to buy new

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah, but hes saying "kraken isnt avail" and im saying replace kraken with another entity, EAE has nothing to do w kraken

That's the minority, though.

intr, no, I just think that it's just less hit or miss

<intr:unredacted.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: I should clarify I'm talking about graphene's EOL

Why is Kraken not having XMR an issue? Swappers exist...

<intr:unredacted.org> buying a brand new one is a permanent miss with how goddamn expensive Pixels are

<intr:unredacted.org> (and simlocking)

intr, the absolute current ones - yeah, but those 1-1.5 years old do drop in price.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, can buy another shitcoin like BTC on kraken and swap it for monero, site like trocador.app @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org

I know I am privileged but I'd rather save up $300 even though it's painful, and have less ambiguity.

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> 1. Exchange (Your account) > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> There is something else you might want to consider, EABE (will also be irrelevent once FCMP hit)

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> 2. Alice (You)

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> 3. Bob (The recipient)

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> 4. Exchange (Bob’s account)

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> [... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/7YjKzvwKU29PQ05M ]

ravfx, I also look up particular swappers to see their reputation

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: yeah, Any exchange can do it

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And also they can collaborate (Exchange X could be exchanging information with exchange Y)

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: This is kinda frustrating.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: You can "simply" churn. Ideally with a wallet with coin control support.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> But it will be fixed soon™.

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Watching that video link you sent me just now. And also did some research on Fcmi. I guess that’s monero’s next or future update that could fix some of this issues

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It's going to fix EAE/EABE yeah

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org: More like

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. Exchange account that shares data w surveillance

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Alice (You)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 3. Exchange account that shares data with surveillance

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Thr example that you posted (bob) is essentially a churn, and breaks up the graph