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rehrar
Both examples of people that were Monero contributors that are now on my team (sarang and pigeons) were either out or on their way out. And I'd rather pay them to do work for me (and continue to do work for Monero) than see them completely leave
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geonic
I have nothing against you having a company and loaning services out to whoever wants to pay for them. that's the free market. I have an issue that you're doing it while actively employed by the Monero project. you're right that you're held to a different standard and all my complaints would disappear if you relinquished your position with Core. as
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geonic
it stands, I expect that your first and only allegiance is to Monero, but sadly that's not the case.
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rehrar
geonic: that may be the case right now. So then why were you so sour to the whole shebang before Cypher Stack started doing this? It's literally only been a month or so that it has. And yet you've not been a fan for much much longer than that.
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geonic
I'm not sure if you're aware, but Firo's founder is proud of "poaching" Sarang from Monero and is using it as an example of why his dev tax is superior to relying on donations
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rehrar
Genuinely curious. Not trying to stir shit.
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geonic
when did you do the site redesign for Firo? do you recall?
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rehrar
I did the whole rebrand, not just the site. Let's call it last year or so?
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geonic
and I haven't been a fan for how long?
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rehrar
Since you knew I was getting paid, so around the same time I guess. Understood.
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rehrar
So side hustles as a whole should be off-limits for me, you're saying.
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medusa_
geonic: i see some controversy, but nothing that bothers me too much to be honest. that might change in the future, but for now its allright in my view. rehrars role (for which he gets paid by core) is specific and is mostly about administrativ tasks without making any decisions as far as i understand it..so yes i see very little issues here for now, even if the situation isnt perfect
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geonic
no. I'm not saying that you can't moonlight. I've held down a full time job and had my business on the side. but if I ever aided my boss's competitor, I know I would've been fired. as an example, sarang's employment with Firo is causing reputational damage to Monero and intentionally or not, this was enabled by you
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geonic
side hustles within the cryptocurrency space, yes. off limits while employed by Monero.
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geonic
I'd also be against you collecting payment from Local Monero and whoever else for any services. that presents a conflict of interest to me.
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rehrar
hmmm...ok.
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rehrar
geonic: and I'm guessing that at this point, because I've already undertaken such side hustles, me closing the business and sticking to Monero isn't ideal with you either? At this point a resignation would be the only way to make things right?
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rehrar
Or am I incorrect in this guess?
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medusa_
i get your point too geonic, really. but if we take the company example, the "prohibition of competition" only applies to key personel..rehars job at monero is more something like the cleaning lady (at least that was my impression)..so i see little conflict for now
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medusa_
of yourse, if the cleaning lady gets into a managament position, it might become an issue
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geonic
rehrar: no. I think either of these is a valid option. but I think you're more of an entrepreneur than an employee and would have more success as such
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rehrar
geonic: Thank you for being plain with me on this. Sincerely.
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geonic
plus there are people relying on you for their salary now. I don't know what revenue you're doing but if it eclipses (or is on its way to eclipse) what you get from Monero, I would not fault you for going with that
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geonic
and would actually applaud the move
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geonic
anyway that's my $0.02. you can count on me to tell you what I think :).
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geonic
medusa_: let's not underestimate the position. as the only person who is receiving a salary from Monero, this makes him key personnel by definition.
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rehrar
I AM Monero
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rehrar
>:)
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rehrar
sorry. I'll shut up and let you talk
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gingeropolous
time
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gingeropolous
oh yeah crickets.
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gingeropolous
look what we need to do is modify the inflation curve so that monero's worth more so that everyone can be bajillionaires and we can fund everyone. i mean, thats what all other projects do.
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gingeropolous
and slap on a dev tax as well
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gingeropolous
"this baby right here. can fund 9k developers"
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nioc
just move the decimal
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midipoet
I agree with most of what geonic says, fwiw.
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midipoet
and if I am completely honest, I think the general mentality of the community changed once we knew that someone was on a full time salary, paid from the GF. It changed the ethos of participation, and altered expectations from individuals. I understand it could have been for better, or worse, depending on one's perspective. I see it as for the worse.
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midipoet
But nobody from Core seems inclined to talk about it.
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midipoet
So rehrar has to defend it
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midipoet
And now, the issue keeps rearing it's ugly head, on and on - as it sits right at the heart of open-source community; its purpose, ideology, and overarching philosophy.
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midipoet
That's my two cents
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midipoet
Good luck to the rest
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medusa_
can eventually more transparency change this midipoet ? questions like whats the salary, how much % is the pensum, how long will the contract run, whats its exact role etc.....or is the issue in general with someone being hired per se (even if its just administrativ things like compiling logs, setting up meetings etc)
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medusa_
would the thing change if the community decides to fund the role via CCS ?
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medusa_
all in all i dont find it bad to hire someone to do the things noone likes to do (especially not core)...like compiling logs etc..its boring. if the issue is the GF it can eventually be done via CCS
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midipoet
medusa_: honestly, I don't know the answers to those questions. It's up to the people running the show and controlling the general funds to choose what they want to do. The impact (as far as I see it) has started to run its course already, unfortunately.
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medusa_
what is the impact you are seeing on the project?
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midipoet
these types of conversations where topics such as transparency, trust, accountability, and fairness are brought up regarding how work is done for and on the Monero project
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midipoet
at the moment, I see an individual being paid by the GF who simultaneously also contracts for other projects (albeit it seems relatively respected ones). Yet nobody has the courage to discuss openly whether that may be a conflict of interest.
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midipoet
If it's not to be seen as one, then fine. But at least the conversation should be had
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rehrar
midipoet: several people have claimed COI though.
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rehrar
Many of small, organic conversations should be had.
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rehrar
Are you talking about scheduling a meeting specifically to discuss something like this?
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midipoet
medusa_: honestly, at this stage, I couldn't be arsed. I think the whole thing stinks
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medusa_
well i think topics like you mentioned, transparency, trust & accountability...are always importnt when it comes to the GF, with or without people hired.
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medusa_
but yeah i get what you are saying. im not in one camp or the other really, i just want everyone to be happy and ideally united when it comes to important questions
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medusa_
based on my experience with monero..if there really is an issue, you have to go to the baricades heavily..otherwise it wont be heard or noticed
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medusa_
you can get the pitchforks out imo, as long as you also put them away again at some point once a compromise is reached
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selsta
hopefully there will be a GF transparency report in June
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selsta
once a year should not be too much work for core team