Dear fireice_uk. I must strongly object to you reporting our great Monro community members to Freenode for racism AND getting people K-lined as a result! i.imgur.com/R0T9GGY.png THEY ARE NOT NEO-NAZI!!! THEY ARE JUST SAYING NEO-NAZI THINGS!! i.imgur.com/JYu44As.png I know this because they have been nice to me and made me their Magical Crypto Friend! If you don't cease immediately I shall throw another t

antrum!

Monero Community Member PS. You are interrupting my session of masturbation to The Man in the High Castle.

Reminder that we have a village staff meeting today Saturday at 18:00 UTC on #monero-events. It is a public meeting that anybody can attend, to plan our appearance at Defcon 29 (5-8 August 2021 in Las Vegas) with topics in the agenda monero-project/meta #579

There are multiple psychological hooks to keep Monero community members in place. Here is one:

Notice that Scientologists don't stand on street corners saying "Would you like to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Xenu?"

Put yourself instead in the shoes of someone who spent $10,000 and 2-3 years of their life on their courses

And you get a bunch of bad sci-fi - you have two choices:

- either swallow a very bitter pill that you wasted a pile of money and a portion of your life

- or swallow the sci-fi, and from that point on, you will swallow _anything_ they tell you.

In the cult trade that's called "insider doctrine".

Would you like to talk about our Lord and Saviour of NASA, Howard Chu?

Hello, are you around luigi1111w luigi1111 ?

I think everyone here knows that most Monero exchange withdrawals and desposits are traceable (Breaking Monero - poisoned outputs). How does it feel to go out and lie to people that they are private and then earn less than holding BTC on your bag?

Reminder that we have a village staff meeting in a half hour (at 18:00 UTC) on #monero-events. It is a public meeting that anybody can attend, to plan our appearance at Defcon 29 (5-8 August 2021 in Las Vegas) with topics in the agenda monero-project/meta #579

hi

henlo

ajs_[m]: Meeting is happening on #monero-events in case you're getting set up with Libera then please visit that chat room.

Wait I finally have permission to speak

Nice

michaelizer[m]: somewhat

<luigi1111 "michaelizer: somewhat"> Hi, good that you're online, a week ago I replied to what you commented in my proposal, could you answer since you are here?

Also, could you please ping me from the account you are currently using? It took me a bit to communicate with you 😅

Will take a look soon

Thank you

I'm curious if there's been any formal research done on Monero's electricity usage compared to Bitcoin. I have done some crude calculations myself and found that Monero probably would use around 10x less energy than bitcoin if it were at the same scale (based on ratio of total cost of mining hardware to the market cap).

Doesn't mining adjust so that it uses as much hash power as you will give it?

IE, you could run the entire monero blockchain with a single node using only 1kh/s, the difficulty would adjust and transactions would work fine.

Yes

It makes it less secure though

As at that hash rate my phone could probably pull off a 51 attack

But hash rate tends to grow with market cap

Everybody with their 64 bit android phones...

The hash rate vs market cap would depend entirely on cpu cost & electricity cost vs market cap.

I just use a PinePhone for taking notes and listening to music. Android is gross.

I use to have a pinephone

But it wasn't fast enough for my needs

It was cool to tinker with though

I avoid android at all costs

I use degoogled android

Back to mining stuff.

Yeah

You have to take into account that you can't compare bitcoin;s hashrate to monero's hash rate.

I use mine without Bluetooth, WiFi, the Modem or the camera because I refuse to use proprietary blobs on anything I own. It's mainly a portable music player for me.

I know

That's not the comparison I made

Because the algorithm doesn't use the same hardware

Mine was just a very crude estimation of how much hardware costs

Barring a jump in the price of cpus

The cost of mining is ultimately based on the cost of electricity

So I just got the cost of an antminer s19 (I think) and then multiplied it by the total hash rate of bitcoin divided by 5000 petahashes

Well investing in hardware is a big part of it as well

So if Monero got expensive enough, it would use about the same amount of electricity as bitcoin, unless you hit a shortage of ram/cpu/motherboards

But that would require much more initial investment into buying the CPUs, as to reach the same electricity level, you'd need a lot more CPUs than you would ASICs

Monero can also be profitably mined on datacenter hardware during down time.

So the market would be determined by the electricity cost to server farms.

The block difficulty would reach equilibrium with the electricity costs of a datacenter with a modest profit margin excluding the cost of hardware.

Individual miners could probably compete in costs by undervolting.

That is assuming that the data centers posses enough CPU power to reach that level of electricity

<mcfranko[m]1 "That is assuming that the data c"> Datacenters are huge and there are a lot of them.

That's true

I mean either way we are just speculating as neither of us seem to have any actual numbers

My argument is logical, not quantitative.

Miners use and discard hardware based on whether their hashrate profit minus their electricity cost is positive.

And block difficulty adjust itself in equilibrium with network hashrate. if difficulty drops, hashrate goes up.

On the other hand, you could make the argument that if fees remain lower with monero, due to variable blocksize, the total fees collected in each block will be lower, resulting in less money to buy electricity.

In that sense, electricity use isn't a function of total market cap, rather total market fees and block reward.

So the variable block size is fantastic for the environment because it reduces total fees.

I mean it is correlated with market cap in that sense, because if price of the coin is up, there is more block reward, hence more electricity

True

BRB, writting a whitepaper

Cool

There is also another cost to cpu mining other than electricity, and that's that the CPU could be doing other things that might be more useful

Whereas with ASIC mining, they only do one thing

<mcfranko[m]1 "There is also another cost to cp"> Lots of cpus areound the world sit around idle most of the time.

CPU demands are highly bursty

Did you know that all witdraw-buyer-seller-depoist chains are trackable in Monero? No? You should have read Breaking Monero. How many people are you endangering with your 'privacy' coin?