imgur.com/UyzNFVF 👀

<plowsof[m]> "imgur.com/UyzNFVF 👀" <- What you cooking up plowsof

trying to make the 'monerodevs .org' website with projects / their related devs

all is not well in LN land twitter.com/francispouliot_/status/1442827924462358529?s=19

Inge: Things have never been well in LN land. It's just that until now not many people have tried to use it. Peter Rizun of Bitcoin Unlimited has done some fantastic work examining the shortcomings of Lightning. One of his articles:

cool

So it is finally going public that LN is a no go?

If i understand things correctly, the problem that LN attempts to solve is NP-hard.

Some good discussion here

(Sorry if I am I belaboring the point) Here is some very recent discussion of LN's NP-hardness, based on research by a PhD student: mail-archive.com/lightning-dev@list…s.linuxfoundation.org/msg02456.html

NP-hard doesn't necessarily mean impossible to solve. Almost perfect heuristics are known for many NP-hard problems

sech1: True. In practice, it looks like whatever heuristics LN is using are failing now that substantial adoption is underway. A whole national government bet on LN and now chickens are coming home to roost.

That specific post is about cheapest route for a LN transaction. Selecting not cheapest route is not failing, they're failing somewhere else

no idea what's happening there actually

LN fees are going to rise as the major "hubs" start to recover their opportunity cost of having at that BTC liquidity locked up instead of earning interest on some DeFi/CeFi platform, anyway.

So, in other words, if the computer science doesn't kill LN, the economics will.

Also, LN has other issues. Once a node becomes important, how does it avoid government regulation. It would be trivial for govs to impose KYC and others in LN nodes, and then why use btc instead of your bank?

good grief. the governance link in messari.io/asset/monero/news links to forum.getmonero.org

what would be the best link for that?

a web irc client to #monero-dev ? :)

I'm beyond excited to announce a new way to propose and fund work on Monero and it's ecosystem, bounties.monero.social!... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…2dc22f50ee390ea1391facf12c0cb6d7cee)

Good job sethsimmons, the new website looks good and is very clear.

I would like there to be a 'grace period' where something is assigned to someone for .. lets say 1 week?. During that week there is a none-compete clause? (i can see a few people getting 'burned' due to the 'first to finish gets the prize' model)

Bounties website looks great, thanks Seth :)

sethsimmons: now you just need a governance token and it could be a DAO

:-P

Dash will be so irritated!

can we have masternodes too? please?

wb fluffypony

ComplyLast: tks

only MasterMonero's can vote on proposals

fluffypony: That's the next step to Monero domination 👿

perfect

And seriously, so glad to see you back around these parts, fluffypony, so sorry for all you had to go through...

❤️ fluffy is back

ComplyLast: That's after DAO so that I can own all the nodes and win all the votes

Sorry I am just too excited 😂

thanks - still got a ways to go to put this to bed, but at least it's moving along

own just like 70% sethsimmons

spread the remainder 30% amongst several participants

Like yourself, I bet

NICE TRY

lol

🤯

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Seth For Privacy whoa, where did this come from? How was this added to monero.social so quickly?

I'm glad it was, I just want to know how so we can replicate stuff like this

Stoked on the new bounty thing. Been wanting to do something like this but happy to see it’s been picked up by the community

fluffypony: Welcome back !

tks

Hey everyone, I started a new version of the Awesome Monero list since the old one was ancient

I still need to add some more stuff to it and finish the wallet list

crypt0_bear: you could(should) add p2pool to the mining section

Yeah I will add it for sure

but nice to have this list :D

Ill share it in all the usual places once it is done

crypt0_bear[m]: maybe you can list some of the tools at melo.tools

Nice list. :) Would recommend:... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…ce8721961d77bb125c378f162fd344393f3)

this is from wayy up in the scrollback, but iirc LN decided to only communicate initial channel capacity not current capacity for privacy reasons

this should make the path finding harder, because the node has to select the path partially "blind"

someone deep within that reddit comment actually mentions this, and explains that LN doesn't even communicate when/why it failed (not sure about that part of the spec)

lack of communication on failure would make the algorithm a lot harder because it cannot eliminate paths when it should

<binaryFate> "crypt0_bear: maybe you can..." <- This is awesome. Ill use it and it has great tools listed on there

> <@anarkiocrypto:halogen.city> Nice list. :) Would recommend:... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…2bd6de13b5598901420264cf78700bd37ea)

since in LN the best path does not need to be found but any path, maybe every node could instead of knowing the whole graph only know its direct neigbours and the strongly connected component it is a part of. when sending a payment it could route the payment to a neigbour for which it is know that it is not further away from the target then the current node

how this can be known if the neigbour is not further away is not easy without the graph structure, but maybe someone finds a way

if this is possible, the payment could be routed to a node without anybody knowing the graph structure

to choose if an edge can be taken could maybe be done with pederson commitments like confidential transactions are done

nevermind i thought a bit more about it and the idea was stupid :D i will maybe come back with this when i have thought a little bit more about the implications

endogenic: if you wish to continue your off-topic discussions, please do so here instead of MRL.

Or #monero-offtopic

sethsimmons: nice work on the bounties website. How does it work practically though? The funds sit with Core until the tasks are complete? Does one notify someone if starting work on the bounty, to avoid duplication?

midipoet: Yes, funds sit with Core until bounties are completed, and then payouts occur to the person who completed the work. Users starting work on bounties should say so in a comment (preferably with some proof of their ability to do so) and give updates in comments so other users can see what is in-progress and what still needs work etc.

the MCW YT channel is now bridged to Odysee: odysee.com/@monerocommunityworkgroup

Odysee = LBRY rebrand?

maybe? idk haha

"The platform's predecessor LBRY.TV has now been retired in favour of Odysee."

M030AAAYAD: did you intentionally change your irc username? :D

what is the point of using odysee over youtube

selsta: nope

it's "M030AAAYAD" now

better than sgp_ fwiw

lol

fixed now?

looks like nope

that seems to have fixed it

I have put in a bunch of effort towards getting a MAGIC Monero Fund off the ground, and I finally have some drafts that I can share here for feedback

I envision that this MAGIC Monero Fund can be used for a variety of purposes, including funding MRL projects

ignore the domain it's currently on (will be changed to magicgrants.org soon once the website is beautified more)

MAGIC Funds overview page: buyxmr.com/funds (again, ignore domain, this is just for testing)

I also made this draft outlining the MAGIC Monero Fund specifically: docs.google.com/document/d/1ygcbshh…oUoZve-hn2VnvbuDvfJueoDTkdrG68/edit

Do you have any initial feedback or questions?

Again, this is separate from the CCS and is a side initiative that I hope can be useful; it's not meant to replace anything else, speak for anyone, or interfere with others' ideas.

<sgp_> "what is the point of using..." <- ct:

<sgp_> "what is the point of using..." <- Odysee is essentially an uncensorable version of YouTube. Over the last year their control obsession has bleed into a lot of regular channels as well, creators get strikes or even bans for all kinda of nonsense reasons. And YouTube always refuses to elaborate, cooporate or otherwise help creators to rectify the issues.

The nice thing about Odysee is that YouTube creators can easily mirror their content on Odysee, so a lot of amazing people are already there, include veratasium, 3blue1brown, Luke smith, Louis rossmann and of course monero talks. The platform is super useable on both the app and their web application. It is very rare that a video buffers, 98% off all content loads about as fast as YouTube. It has literally no downsides, but cuts some

more dependencies on google.

so is it just a video website with hosts that don't moderate?

If I remember correctly, the website Odysee is technically moderated but if they removed a video from the website then it could still be found through the LBRY block chain (somehow)

Exactly. The website is moderated, they have an nsfw tag for all filth, and most recommendations are relatively sane. Only the block chain that can be access from the desktop application has everything

And "just a video website" is a bit of an understatement, it is an *actually usable* video site

It's bittorrent magnet links that are stored on the blockchain, right?

bitchute and all the others are just garbage compared to odysee

I know that other metadata is stored on the blockchain as well in addition to optional payment info

No idea how the streaming part works, I just like it from a user perspective

MoneroTalk did an interview with the CEO a few months ago

There are better solutions to storage than a fork of bitcoin w/ magnet links added

no doubt. But odysee is usable and it has great content, which is what no other YouTube "competitor" has ever managed to do

With recent ongoing spam which seems to have started again and decoy selection change where we are picking up decoys from recently mine blocks; does it hurt privacy more now ? Because the recent blocks have bulk of the outputs from a bad entity and they know it’s theirs 🤔

Can someone clear this up

s/mine/mined/

> <@sethsimmons:monero.social> I'm beyond excited to announce a new way to propose and fund work on Monero and it's ecosystem, bounties.monero.social!... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…7c03e1b9e33ebe197eecd3d19dffb12383a)

monero.social is held by Diego and issued to Core afaik

Is this kind of similar to the work of plowsof ?

Or do I have it confused?

It's similar, but based on a commenting/forum type of platform with a little more crowdsourcing, more general monero focus, and a sprinkle of moderation (though less moderation than CCS).

sudo_ki: The way I see it, the two systems serve similar but opposite roles:

Are there core features that could be used in both?

plowsof 's platform serves people who have labor but need capital

The bounty platform serves people who have capital (and an idea) but need labor

It's all about matching capital to labor, just from opposite ends of the challenge.

They are complementary, as I see it

That's how I was looking at it. Couldn't help but wonder how much more efficient it would be, if people working on similar ideas knew about each other and worked together

That's all

I'm especially excited about the bounties site because I think there are a lot of people with great ideas and just hold them in because they don't have the tech knowledge

Or perhaps they don't know the right person to tell the idea to

I wonder how much attention bounties of 0 xmr would get

XD

Might be interesting to do a bounty hunter Friday post on reddit or something

And copy pasta some of the high rated ones into the bounty site

crypto_grampy[m]: Nice idea

Saturdideation

No frideation

<sgp_> "I also made this draft outlining..." <- About to have a MAGIC board meeting. Any comments on this you want to share before the meeting?

sgp_: Yes. How hard would it be to paste this over to CryptPad or a similar non-Google platform? Google scares me

Rucknium: ^

sgp_: Thanks!

sgp_: Is this substantially changed compared to what you shared with me a few weeks ago? I read it then, actually, but didn't type any feedback

I reworked the veto section to be more restrictive and clearer

>ZOMG serves as an extremely useful example of what to repeat and what to adjust for best compatibility in the Monero community.

You might want to note how ZOMG is sort of imploding right now. So emphasis on the "what to adjust" I suppose.

I recently "caught" them trying to break the law 🙃

I attribute that mostly to their relationship with the ECC. But yeah, definitely lessons learned there that we shouldn't run into imo

> <@rucknium:monero.social> I recently "caught" them trying to break the law 🙃

> forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/aiyadt-c…didacy-for-zomg/39921/11?u=rucknium

Committee members can actually deal compensation so long as the conflict of interest policy is followed, but getting close to that line usually isn't good

s/deal/receive/

Eg, an executive director can be compensated, and sit on the board, but they can't vote on their compensation as a board member

Still, people who act on the committee largely shouldn't be applying for grants