uh... so apparently not all messages showing up on my end

sech1 screenshot: p2pool.io/u/a418bb5b476bac16/binance.png

on my end: p2pool.io/u/a418bb5b476bac16/binance.png

* on my end: i.ibb.co/tYy30t5/image.png

maybe you have me on /ignore :D

Twitter Space tomorrow at 2:30p ET. Join if you can! twitter.com/monero/status/1557879066413391872

wouldnt put u in ignore selsta!!! LOL, other messages didnt show up either and apparently having the issues on most channels, they do show up from that matrix.org account tho, just not the other one... oh well

(actually, scrolling up from that acc, the messages from sech1 screenshot didnt show up either, weird af, tho there's like 10 hours of messages from today that do show up in here. not the other acc, errrrrrr.... wtf LOL)

and i wouldnt think that's an irc-matrix bridge issue either cause some of ofrnxmr messages that are from the same side as i am (matrix) didnt show up on either accounts (but did from sech1 perspective) so fucking weird

Matrix sucks

Is my diagnosis

guess so

I dont see any msgs from sech1

oh i dont think he actually wrote in the chat, he posted the screenshot on reddit tho

Exodus wont be ready

Lol losers

Imagine using a closed source wallet

Exodus is fine imo, for shitcoins holding.

But monero is not a shitcoin and deserve a proper wallet

Exodus is not fine LOL

They literally wont be ready 😅

How can they, they have other things to do and many shitcoins to manage.

A dedicated wallet will always be more proper imo, specially for a coin like monero

Exodusty

Ledger emailed me today saying they would have an update ready on the same day as the Hard Fork. Would have liked at least an extra day... Anyone hear otherwise?

Hey, at least they got back to you :)

Regarding Ledger, they will release v1.8.0 in developer mode tomorrow. The app will go live in normal mode next week.

Enabling developer mode requires like 2 clicks so shouldn't be too much of a problem.

^^ posted here earlier today

eudaimon36[m]: ^^

Great, thanks! Sorry didn't see that.

yw :)

Shh

Ledger told him saturday

lol, ok

Who cares what they told selsta :)

"The customer is always right, dammit!"

I have no friends, so the secret's safe

The current block height is 2,687,627. Fork height is 2,688,888. 1,261 blocks to go, happening in approximately 42.03 hours

ofrnxmr[m]: it was Saturday originally but I asked them for tomorrow and they said ok

w0w

<monerobull[m]> "That ignores the fact that ASICs..." <- i understand that, but i was looking specifically to counter "its much cheaper to 51% attack a CPU-mined coin than ASIC"

<merope> "Whereas you can't realistically..." <- do you have stats for this?

<r4v3r23[m]> "i understand that, but i was..." <- My analysis is about the upfront cost of the hardware needed to match the current hardware. I don't have the latest numbers right now, but BTC and ETH were in the order of ~$10B, while Monero ~$100-200M

(Assuming you buy new, and ignoring any supply availability issues)

Note that the cost of the energy required to mine is pretty much negligible in comparison, unless you intend to keep up the attack for a long time (multiple weeks)

(For BTC it should be ~$10-20M/day in electricity @0.10 $/kWh, if my napkin math is correct)

BTC market cap is 150 times bigger, BTC daily emission in $ is 300 times bigger than, so 100x difference in 51% attack cost is no surprise

endor00: thanks

Yep, it follows mining emission

(Because difficulty follows it)

so cost is a non-issue for a state attacker on both BTC & XMR, miner centralization presents a problem for both, but only CPU mined coin has a chance to "fight back" using hardware thats available to everyone

endor00: do you have the math lying around some where?

<r4v3r23[m]> "so cost is a non-issue for a..." <- Correct. All pow coins work in fundamentally the same way - the difference in the hardware manufacturing and distribution process. The general-purposeness of cpus makes them much harder to "censor", unlike the highly-specialized asics

<r4v3r23[m]> "endor00: do you have the math..." <- I have not updated this with the latest improvements, but you can get the idea from this: gist.github.com/07364dc54f277abf487574d455d67341

I have a similar one for BTC, but I have not published it anywhere and can't atm

How do I upgrade lalanza808s docker node

I tried docker-compose down -> build -> make

But still on 17.2.3

down -> update the docker-compose.yml file to the newer version -> docker-compose up

Would that be in context: dockerfiles

Or dockerfiles: monerod_noncompile

These are the two points under build:

Kek

The version number is hardcoded

Haha I'm such a hackerman

I found the right config thing and changed the download and hash, build, up and now I'm on 18.1 ^^

Oh and i did it via my Webbrowser because normal ssh always just died after 2 minutes

<monerobull[m]> "Oh and i did it via my Webbrowse..." <- `tmux` after ssh'ing into so can always go back to that tmux session even when getting disconnected

<monerobull[m]> "Haha I'm such a hackerman" <- And now I've opened a pull request to upgrade this in the original repo

And now I've realized the repo is not maintained anymore and someone else is not maintaining it here: codeberg.org/jahway603/docker-monero-node

s/not/now/

<ScriptConsole> Do I lose monero if i reset my gui wallet database?

At what blockheight is the HF?

<ScriptConsole> what?

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Who cares what they told selsta :)

>

> "The customer is always right, dammit!"

☝🏾

<kryptonight> just have your backupseed available and its all good nomatter what you do. as long as you have the seed

<kryptonight> (or send all your xmr to me)

<kryptonight> (unless you send all your xmr to me)

<aremor[m]> "At what blockheight is the HF?" <- 2.688.888

Current block is 2687918

The current block height is 2,687,919. Fork height is 2,688,888. 969 blocks to go, happening in approximately 32.30 hours

aremor[m]: ^^

Where's the Friday market thread on reddit

I just got another 10k stickers and need a place to shill /s

maybe I should read b4 posting :)

monerobull[m]: reminds me, I haz stickers to put up

same, still have like 2k out of the 5k

Maybe not that bad really, I'll need to close up shop during the hardfork anyway

Will have to test out if the payment gateway still works

mempool is currently 1k txs and there have been full blocks for the last 60-70 blocks

adoption \o/

There's so much talk about tx size and scalability issues that comes with it, I wonder how much regular FIAT bank transfer weights...

judging from the fields, it ain't that light

and most definitely every transaction is stored permanently

Difference is centralized storage and compute is cheap and easy

<nioc> "mempool is currently 1k txs..." <- Minexmr payouts and people either selling or buying in anticipation of the fork?

I doubt it's buying and selling

mempool still rising >1500 now

minexmr hmmmm

1800 queued transactions

Only 50tx per block

Rucknium: or Morpheus: you keeping track?

last block 7 hours ago ?

I dont have that data, sadly

txstreet displays this, must be some mistake

blocks are coming as usual, no thousands of transactions pending bullshit

there are a LOT of consolidating transactions? like 14/2 13/2 etc...

Yeah ^

block size not growing, median 100 blocks still just < 300kB

Perhaps Binance wallet is coming back online...

Binance has nothing to consolidate lol

*Binance_scam, sorry.

So.....

Anyone do a test tx to see how long to get in a block?

And anyone know if/when/how much pressure needed for dynamic blocks get activated

transactions are as fast as usual

How?

There are 1800 (10-20 blocks) in queue

?

no

link me

1800 tx*

will send a test tx

need to wait a moment for full sync

minxmr is closing and they had thousands of miners

most txs are 1/2 or 2/2

most tx in latest blocks are mostly 19+/2

looks almost as if someone was slowly increasing the number of ins

was 19/2 and has been growing up to 34/2

I looked back about 60 blocks, most looked normal

that was about 20 blocks ago

yeah only in the last hour

have the number of inputs been steadily growing

you normally get clusters of txs with many ins

A lot bigger than that

the joy of p2pool

194/2

Haha indeed

binance fixing their wallet issues :D

xmrmine closing

world ending

just in case all is gunna be ok I am going to do my laundry

ofrnxmr: I don't record mempool data at the moment. Maybe neptune does. There's this, but it just records block propagation and re-orgs I think: github.com/neptuneresearch/monerod-archive

These look like miner tx?

>estimated 46 block (92 minutes) backlog

Woah

1.6k in mempool

I really love my dashboard

This is 24 h

I was going to ping you to ask if your chart was running :P

done syncing, last ~70 blocks took much more time than usual

it's because they're full

kk

.mempool

monerobull - where you get this nice dashboard ?

I've built it myself:3

Using this codeberg.org/jahway603/docker-monero-node

nice

tx pending out for 8 min now :D

I'll make a video tutorial when i get around to it

which wallet did you use?

official cli

it should automatically set a higher fee so that it gets mined fast

latest

default transfer command

<monerobull[m]> "Screenshot 2022-08-12 144734.png" <- l33t h4ckz0r dashboard

monerod syncs nicely with new blocks, but still waiting

ofrnxmr: wagwan with binance PR

monerobull[m]: I need that dashboard for my car

still waiting, i wonder whats the time limit for transfers on DNM's, it could mess them up

r4v3r23[m]: Selsta had said they have real wallet issues.. dont know details but once we know, id like to know what happened, if this is a regular thing and why

nioc: Uh, probably doable

ofrnxmr[m]: this one time or every single time they block withdrawals?

Yeah, thats what im waiting to find out

monerobull[m]: nice, my car is from the last century

ofrnxmr[m]: do you think they will disclose internal wallet details to you? lol

no exchange would do that

Not to me? But everybody is under the impression binance is lying

there's no issues with bitcoin being public

You're the first ive heard that they weren't

selsta: have they ever reached out in the past?

the only reason they wouldn't post proof of balance is.... they are scammers.

no need for view key even, there is a proof mechanism / command in the wallet

they won't do it because ->scam.

My question is: is it a monero bug? A Binance issue?

Why does it happen and should users not have confidence on binance or large exchanges?

Is it something tradeogre, haveno etc have to worry about?

I dont care about binance internal issue, I care about if its a Binance issue or a bug with monero that others need to be careful of when developing their products (serai is another one)

even if they gave away view key, it wouldnt show sending outputs, would have to wait for the seraphis/jamtis thingy for that

we dont need view key. just reliable withdrawals, or preferably, a delisting

yea let's have even less exchanges :D

centralized*

selsta: are you worried about the TC dev arrest and what it might mean for monero

"less exchanges" they're not even in USA apparently

so, sure, usa is 3rd world country cause binance have the most volume even if not available over there, that's 100% the proof that usa is literally 3rd world country

r4v3r23[m]: waiting on more details first

quite sure tornado cash had a token? it's possible that they profited off it?

Thanks @selsta

also they did mixing for usdc and usdt which the government probably doesn't like at all

TORN

did they profit from it?

ofrnxmr: the difference with binance and the others is that, they also own coinmarketcap and are literally making the narrative, would tradeogre be able to?

selsta: arrested for "concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering through the mixing of cryptocurrencies"

no mention of profit, just working on the project that enabled it

55% (5,500,000 TORN): DAO treasury, will be unlocked linearly over 5 years with 3 month cliff

30% (3,000,000 TORN): Founding developers and early supporters, will be unlocked linearly over 3 years with 1 year cliff

gotta get out of home and can't wait for the tx to go through, but it's been 31 min now and it's still pending out ;)

that's multiple million

r4v3r23[m]: the government taking down mixers has been happening for a while, and the treasury also warned tornado cash in the past

so far they did not warn or do anything about privacy coins from what i can tell

was it coinjoin or somethin like that which got on the list as well?

i mean, awhile back

selsta: did you know how much pressure it would take to push us into dynamic blocks?

i do not

32 block backlog

2076 tx in mempool wow lol

9.1mb

32 blocks is the stretching point? So ~ 10mb?

Lfggg

not

no, I just meant there is currently a 32 block backlog until the mempool is empty again

Oh okok.

ofrnxmr[m]: is that unusual?

Definitely

Thats bitcoin level of backlog

whats the reason?

just high usage?

Only ~ 50tx/ block going through

Someone is consolidating thousands of inputs

A lot of 194in/2out tx

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Imagepipe_350.jpg" <- You can see some here

Multiple per second

r4v3r23[m]: minexmr closing and sending txs to it's thousands of miners

*its

shouldnt dynamic blocks help in this situation?

it takes time to adjust, otherwise it would be easy to spam the chain

nioc: If so, it was not a good idea for them to wait like this. At the end of the 24 hour grace period for the hard fork, those transactions will be dropped from the mempool forever and would need to be re-sent with ring size 16, view tags, etc

for sure, they did confirm that they sent out many txs

no numbers that I am aware of

Rucknium[m]: we still have enough time until the hardfork for these tx to get mined

blocks are already growing

it will be sorted before hardfork

The current block height is 2,687,988. Fork height is 2,688,888. 900 blocks to go, happening in approximately 30.00 hours

Xmrchain.net

Why are there so many txs with exactly 194 inputs?

minexmr sending out their inputs to miners

that is the max size allowed

someone is combining a large amount of inputs

it happens

I was thinking MineXMR as well. Wasn't aware of 194 being the max...I'm also a little jumpy with the tornado cash stuff going on 😁

Let's combine our inputs to create a new output

^^^this is how nerds make babies

r4v3r23[m]: "The agency also claimed that the people behind the organization — not specifying if that's the developers who coded it or members of the DAO that runs it — made large-scale profits from these transactions"

they did point profiting from it

xenu[m]1: that is probably someone other than minexmr, more likely either an entity's wallet maintenance or p2pool miner

Large/consolidation transactions make sense to send right now, considering the fee changes coming.

no of txs: 1180, size: 2450.45 kB

going down

<selsta> "r4v3r23: "The agency also..." <- guess well find out what the exact crime is soon enough

no of txs: 109, size: 169.44 kB

now we need something else to get excited about :P

how about 6779 miners (250 MH/s) still on minexmr flooding IRC and reddit soon?

and probably github too

was jusr about to mention lol

we should have a C&P ready for that

I wonder how much of those are bots. As far as I know nobody could ever get hard numbers of the number and hashrate of bots on minexmr

But at least bots won't flood Reddit with complaints :)

you sure?

there are soo many bots on reddit currenlty

the future has arrived \o/

they even have bots now that analyze the post and use AI to write a comment

selsta: some of them are kinda funny

GPT-3 bots on reddit yet? o.o

cause that turing test thingy never stood a chance against that :3

the comment output was garbage, definitely not gpt-3

aw 😿

Back over 1000 tx in the mempool. Seems like the originator may have just paused to allow the pool to clear, which would be quite nice of them. I believe the longest time a transaction has had to wait to be mined today is just under 4 hours.

well hot damn, definitely would have thought that dynamic blocksize would have prevented a 4 hours wait :O

would now be a time where a higher tx fee would give your transaction priority?

yes

good, than I did understand it correctly

s/than/then/

If this had been a gradual thing happening over months like normal organic growth, than dynamic blocksize would have saved us from a 4 hour wait.

Bit this is a massive spike in just a few hours. As far as the dynamic block size algorithm is concerned, this is indistinguishable from a spam attack.

yes, dynamic block size isn't for short term bursts within a day

wen rbf

.lenny

rbf?

rainbow facet?

replace by fee

something btc has for similar scenarios

don't know if it's even possible with monero

Right now, no. But we could certainly program it if we wanted

And introduce it with a hardfork

Because, after all, we know how to hardfork :)

**software upgrade

wouldnt that risk not having tx uniformity type of thing anymore tho?

That sounds so incredibly boring

yes it does

Not sure, seems to me all the action would only happen in the mempool where it's temporary

Rbf destroys 0confs tho

Not entering the blockchain

why is monero all of a sudden increasing its default ringsize?

why all the sudden?

we increased it multiple times over the years

You mean from today (where you first heard about Monero) until tomorrow (hardfork)?

its had default 12 ringsize for years

11, but yeah

'Cause BP+ and verification time optimizations made it worthwhile.

yoyoyoyoyo: cause blockzie is getting lower from that bulletproof+ so might as well while seraphis with that 128 ring size keeps getting ready for the coming years

since we now use better cryptography we can increase the ring size without having significantly larger transactions

s/blockzie/blocksize/

we are able to without increasing tx size compared to when 11 was first introduced because of size efficiencies that have been added

yoyoyoyoyo: ^^

ok but was 11 not safe then?

(it is still a small tx size increase though)

there has to be a ringsize that is good enough

it was safe but 16 is safer for certain scenarios

where are those scenarios listed on the monero website?

yoyoyoyoyo: Depends on threat model of the user, any additional side-channel info an adversary may have, etc.

there is a new protocol being worked on that may be used in a couple of years that will have 128 ringsize

Search "breaking monero" on youtube.

There has been specific research into resistance to specific types of attack, and how large ring size has to be to defeat them. See....

also note that privacy is not static but a constant battle

exactly, ciphertrace been giving a shot at it for couple years now while at 11

so why not make it a bit tougher or them now :3

s/or/on/

See this discussion:

Anyway, 16 is nicer than 11 as a number, so there's that

yoyoyoyoyo: There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if you have credible evidence.

That has to be 'good enough.'

As other have said, the point is to be ahead of the game and always be improving.

doesnt firo offer a massive ringsize without trusted setups?

They do (or they will?) with a system quite similar that was already mentioned that is worked out currently for Monero, Lelantus Spark versus Seraphis for Monero

With massive = 128

Yeah, but it's also effectively beta software. Good ideas from coins like firo get adopted by monero once they're proven. Monero doesn't take risks like that.

oh i thought firos tech and moneros tech were to completely different things

BusyBoredom: lelantus spark was resesrched for monero integration

By the same person doing it in firo

Found it in a MRL meeting log: "Firo is planning on Q3 2022 for adoption of Lelantus Spark"

And seraphis is ~ similar to lelantus, or inspired by

Was the reason we didnt go with lelantus re multisig?

Iirc it was potentially incompatible

Kucoin seems to have started their upgrade

Ledger app v1.8.0 is out

after reading that it looks like its the better solution than firo

but is it coming to monero and when?

Whenever it's done, probably the next hard fork it look like.

Development is hard to estimate though, and often late.

(universally hard to estimate and often late, not just for monero)

the wip hasnt been touched in 6 months so prob years it seems

yoyoyoyoyo: github.com/UkoeHB/monero/tree/seraphis_lib

last commit 19h ago

so everybody is combining their inputs before the fees increase therefore paying higher fees to do so

no of txs: 681, size: 1694.71 kB

How significant will be the fee increase in after the hard fork?

I believe the min fee goes up 5x

to almost 1 cent

ofc it's priced in xmr

The fee change is the last push I need to finally start using testnet for testing.

how can i check the progress of that css that was funded a couple months ago about the statistical attack that can defeat monero?

correction: at current price the min fee would go up to 0.5 cents for a 1in 2 out tx

noic where can I find the equation for that?

BusyBoredom[m]: not sure, I am going by my tx cost

it's currently ~0.00000580 xmr for 1 in 2 out and was around 0.000007xx for 2in 2 out

you might get an answer in -dev or the main monero channel

Doing some lazy copy-paste here, but from the fee change conversation here: monero-project/monero #7819

...there's a pdf detailing some example calculations: github.com/monero-project/monero/fi…es/6906846/MoneroScaling2021-02.pdf

The fee calculation is terribly complicated, it's really best to just grab a typical tx on testnet or stagenet which forked already and compare with mainnet fees

I did likewise to confirm that factor of 5 myself

about 5 of course, for typical transactions

<yoyoyoyoyo> "how can i check the progress..." <- Here: libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20220810

And here: github.com/Rucknium/OSPEAD

is this real life?

And here: rucknium.me/html/spent-output-age-btc-bch-ltc-doge.html

thx

wait are you the guy who is working on that?

cryptogrampy: Yes, that party is going on for a few hours already. minexmr pays out en masse.

yoyoyoyoyo: Yes I am.

rbrunner: 48 hours before HF would have been better. Because it’ll take a full 24 hours for the block sizes to compensate right?

Not sure, like many things with Monero the blocksize adjustments are complicated

But yeah, they seem to cut it close

Do you have an explainer for midwits because i just read the first link and didnt understand half the words you were using or what i was looking at

This might be a bit ingenious. The MineXMR hash will fall off at the same time block sizes increase. Therefore having minimum effect on confirmation times of normal transactions at the time of the HF….

yoyoyoyoyo: I am working on a draft for laypeople. Hopefully I can release it in the next few weeks.

The plan right now is to finish writing the detailed fully-specified plan in the next few weeks (including the laypeople-friendly part) and then have an initial estimation with two months of post-hardfork data.

Also old miners that don’t update will fall off the old version, helping the updated fork have more hash and ensure it’s the longest chain going forward

seems they even confiscated hard drives of people who ran tornado cash relayer

selsta: Bruh it’s all bad

The whirlpool people are trying to play it down horrible precedence isn’t being set everywhere

* it down like horrible precedence

just read about something interesting, back when the Horizon Bridge was hacked they laundered the money through Tornado Cash

Anonymity has never been more important

the relay operators noticed this and collaborated to set the fee to 99%, basically stealing the laundered money

Should we not use monero until you have a fix for this attack?

Can our tx be exposed retroactively?

selsta: smh, might not have been so smart

if they can prove that I'm not surprised they got into trouble

wrong chat

yoyoyoyoyo: Not through the blockchain. It’s also not a crime in and off itself. The worst precedence on a random otherwise legal tx so far has been blacklisting but that won’t work because the coins are fungible

Armemor are you talking about Ruckniums work or something else?

yoyoyoyoyo: Sorry I thought you were talking to me

yoyoyoyoyo: Statistical attacks are probabilistic in nature. Deuber, D., Ronge, V., & Rueckert, C. (2022). "SoK: Assumptions underlying cryptocurrency deanonymizations." moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=97

^ This paper rates statistical attack as "Low relevance". Defining:

"A high relevance means that the attack is very likely actually employed by law enforcement; medium

means that it is not known whether the attack is used but we see potential use-cases; low means that we do not see a potential use-case because the exploited weakness has been fixed or the attack would require too much effort"

I would say that the risk of a statistical attack is dependent on a given user's threat model.

We all thought at one time bitcoin was relatively safe because the transaction graph seemed to be so complex and hard to understand, but now its the most easily traced payment network in existence. If its simply an issue of creating software to analyize historical tx data then its not so much an issue of how but when.

The best security with monero like tor is to remain uninsteresting.

The fact they are now tracing cross chain dex transactions is a level of scary i didnt think was possible.

Twitter Space starting NOW: twitter.com/monero

Is there a way to listen to Twitter Spaces without a Twitter account?

Doubt

Recording might be available in nitter

Not sure how that works

no of txs: 1, size: 1.92 kB

I sent somebody XMR earlier and it got in block in 20 min or so

<nioc> "wen rbf" <- RBF on monero is a horrible idea

I was not serious

good :)

Yo so i'm tryna get someone to help me with the server

At first it was for fun

Just a website/vpn i would make so i didn't have to depend on other services

But now i'm thinking

Maybe if i'm able to perfect it with someone

I could make profit