<kayabanerve[m]> "I was hoping to draw more..." <- I'll have to donate to noot directly I guess.

If noot is here, I have a question regarding the atomic swaps contract. More specifically surrounding USA sanctions. I think there has never been a more perfect time to fund ETH<->XMR atomic swaps, and I will be supporting. Since I'm not as familiar with ETH, is there any way to prevent what we saw happen to tornado cash? Can you make a private smart contract? It's not my area of expertise, would love to know our options.

So, tornadocash was sanctioned due to being a money transmitter

Prefacing this with im not a layer

Lawyer*

But atomic swaps are not mixing

I would like to differentiate the transfer of funds between two private parties, and the transfer of funds from two parties to a third party who then sends those funds on their way

In the case of atomic swaps, no such custodial action is necessary or performed, so money transmission isn't happening

The only thing an individual has to worry about is swapping funds with sanctioned individuals explicitly

The dev was arrested unlawfully because the government regards a smart contract as a "person"

The dev was arrested for being a money transmitter

The dev didn't do shit with peoples money, the smart contracts did

Did the dev profit off of the running of the service

All he did was write the contract, that's not a crime

needmoney90: No

So what's the tornadocash token for

It's all open source

Then why is a token needed

I haven't dug deeper, but I presume the dev had a boatload of this token, and the token was integral in the operation of the service.

Idk? The token and the smart contract functions that do the swaps are 2 different things

What does the TORN token have to do with this

What does it do?

it was a governance token, but i don't know the exact function

the dev is not charged yet with anything

If the token accrues value from use of the system, and the system requires the token to operate, and the dev had a large amount of tokens, I can see the case for them being the service operator.

And by extent money transmission

needmoney90: The contracts literally don't require the token

he was arrested helping others to do money laundering

that wasn't proper english lol

I think smart contract also charged some fee on deposit or withdrawal

If the token is unnecessary why does it exist

relay nodes get some fees, but the devs don't get this fee unless they run a relay node

jwinterm[m]: A gas fee? That's how ethereum works

You can easily check the fees on the IPFS front end, tornado cash didn't go anywhere

needmoney90: FIOD said he programmed something that has the sole purpose of money laundering and that's it, that's why they arrested him so far

Money transmission* if I recall

Though I need to reread

<xmrack[m]> "If noot is here, I have a..." <- hey, yeah i've definitely been thinking about this, i think fundamentally the swap and mixers are very different as a swap is just 2 parties exchanging funds via a contract while a mixer pools a bunch of funds together into one contract. the swap contract can be redeployed per-swap even if necessary, and there's no reason for everyone to use the same contract unlike tornado cash. i

think that aspect would make it much harder to ban as there's no need for an anonymity pool

also, for future research, i think an ideal atomic swap would be scriptless/contractless and be indistinguishable from any other tx on chain. i've been researching how to make this possible but have not found a solution yet, but i'm hoping one day this will be possible

Nope, it was laundering, I was mistaken. Huh

It's possible with BTC under Taproot assuming success

they can hold him in jail for up to 120 days without charging him with any crime

seems like that's what they are doing now

> Apart from the gas fees, you will be charged a relayer fee ranging from 0.05% to 0.2%.

🤷‍♀️

yes, but that fee does not go to devs from what i know

it goes to the relay operator

The dev didn't launder anything you see, because the contract does the swapping, not him. Every other swapping service has been shut down for being custodial and acting as a third party - that's not how tornado cash works. You send money to the contract and it gives you a string and the contract does the mixing automatically on its own without any intervention from the dev, and the dev has no control over its function He by

definition of the law didn't launder any money for anyone

* its function. He

He's being arrested for creating open source code. If he ends up being sentenced, this isn't a threat on "money laundering", this is a threat on all FOSS software that exists

Has there been any public information released about why exactly he was arrested?

jwinterm[m]: Yes, they're charging him with acting as a third party doing the swapping for other people

When he literally wasn't

they have not charged him yet

and they also did not say what they will charge him with

jwinterm[m]: the organization that arrested him said he wrote a program with the "sole purpose" of money laundering and that's why he was arrested

arresting people under a law that doesn't exist yet lmao

arrest people now, write it into law later, then convict them

This fundamentally breaks justice, this isn't how law works

I'd love to see where the law says you can't write an open source program that non-custodially does swapping for other people, with no intervention from the creator. That "law" doesn't exist.

I'm not familiar with NL law, but it is difficult to imagine that he can be convicted for writing code alone.

Code is essentially speech An attack on tornado cash is an attack on free speech.

* essentially speech. An

It's all just code. Not being able to write something, code or not and executable on a computer or not, is horrific.

This is just the modern version of book burnings.

Interesting

I mean, sucks for him

But will be interesting to see what format charges state

Formal

we will know more in 3 months

Lets hope this doesn’t go down a similar route as Aaron swartz

Hi! Help me please!!!!!!!! I have completely synchronized my wallet, but I do not see new transactions, and it has been like this for 5 days. what could be the problem?

kayabaNerve: you now have time to spread FUD ?

MajesticBank: Hey! Great to hear from you. What happened?

Leave my businesses out of your fucking mouth man

I fully acknowledged it didn't make sense and I hoped you'd come back to make it right. That didn't change user reports nor your account being nuked.

if you have problem with exchange open support ticket

... I mean, I wasn't even the one who brought it up initially. I solely grabbed the quote from Dread and made a Reddit post to temporarily find another exchange.

I even solely said "accused" because that's all you were.

... I mean, there's reports you haven't responded to support in weeks, and I didn't want to send money to you after hearing it wasn't working and your account was nuked so...

Who are you to attack monero contributors?

It could be coordinated FUD/some ploy by the admins. I have no idea. You didn't respond to any of this for a day and given the community you advertised in... I thought it was worth making an announcement to temporarily find another exchange.

Read my second message again

There is 0 unprocessed exchanges and 0 unresolved tickets

K, so this isn't going anywhere. You're responding to messages and that's great to see. If you're up and solid, cool, good for you. That doesn't explain what happened at all though

will you now post also that everything is ok and we are not exit scamming?

I won't apologize for making a post to temporarily find a new exchange when there's multiple reports outstanding, a lack of response from you, you largely advertised on the darknet, your primary forum (AFAIK) for doing so claimed you exit scammed, and you work as a business where this common. I didn't say you exit scammed and explicitly said it doesn't make sense.

I did state my opinion on how it looked.

... if you don't have outstanding issues, yeah, I'm happy to delete my post and stop making such comments. I'd be happy to be able to.

you are one funny guy

I just didn't want people to be hurt. If you're an anonymous exchange which nuked a primary account just after you got accused of theft, and that community brands you... I'll say stay away for the time being. If this is resolved, it's no longer the time being.

Do you have an explanation for what happened? I mean, you don't have to provide one. It's just concerning to see.

do you have any proof for your claims?

any

You can say FUD by that community's admins. I don't hang out there and can't exactly fully evaluate it myself.

post from random internet dude doesn't count

or whoever is that

I mean, the admin of Dread, where you advertised, saying the only explanation is an exit scam and not to use your site?

send me exchange id here or deposit address

The mass deletion of posts from a subreddit you presumably managed?

get a life man

There was also a post claiming missing funds which I believe you deleted

what are you talking about

Dude. I saw a service, operating in an area with a high likelihood of scams, demonstrating behavior and being blacklisted by people who know far more than me about whatever genre that is. I said "accused" and said to find a new exchange. If you don't want to deal with the accusations... okay. I didn't lie and feel justified in what I did. I'm sorry if I offended you if this is totally legitimate, yet I'd ask you to work aginst the

reputational damage set.

There's no more point to discussing this unless that happens. If you're back and legitimate, great, good to have you, and I'm sorry whatever happened, happened. All I have to say.

This just tell about your attitude towards monero and monero related projects

MajesticBank: If you want to point a finger at anyone, it would be myself. A user from Telegram mentioned that Dread had prominent warnings up, and as a responsible admin, my first reaction was to first notify on IRC that there was something weird happening, followed by verifying that the dread announcement was real, followed by temporarily recommending users wait for further information. Operating in the

cryptocurrency space, I would hope you agree that an abundance of caution is usually a good idea, especially when people's money is on the line. I apologize if there are any hurt feelings, but I stand by following a policy of recommending suspending use of services when *any* doubt exists until that doubt can be cleared up.

I find it a bit disheartening that you would go out of your way to flame community members during a time where you could have calmly explained the situation and resolved doubt, but I can understand why you might be on edge.

<DiegoSalazar[m]> "this. Why are people saying it's..." <- they are custodial for individual swaps, not storing users deposits that they can just run away with

r4v3r23[m] the swaps can be run away with just as easily

MajesticBank: i dont think KN is attacking you, and he's not even the one that brought up the rumour. that was diego

It was me who contacted diego, then came here to clarify.

needmoney90 they always respond just as negatively regarding the countless reports of their payouts always being less than what was promised

I want to be crystal clear here, if anyone is to blame for this, it would be myself.

NorrinRadd: difference in advertised exchange rates is a different issue than exit scamming

of course

r4v3r23[m]: I don't care who put it up first, it's sad people that have reputation in monero community

both regarding the same business r4

use it to spread misinformation

MajesticBank: I would hope you agree that an abundance of caution is usually a good idea, especially when people's money is on the line. I apologize if there are any hurt feelings, but I stand by following a policy of recommending suspending use of services when *any* doubt exists until that doubt can be cleared up.

where that MB account consistently responds with hostility when people report issues with the service

MajesticBank: i get it. and a lot of us didnt believe it since youve clearly been supporting monero big time for the past year

r4v3r23[m]: Privacy is always under attack, so I am used to FUD

but not from trusted people, this is new thing

the dread message was weird, so you can understand the reaction

MajesticBank: yes i know. to me it makes 0 sense for you to exit scam (with what funds exactly?)

I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that we turn a blind eye when services go dark for 24h or longer (when they have "24/7 support") MajesticBank

r4v3r23: couldn't it be normal to contact me first before posting anything?

If you don't want to be held to a standard of being available 24/7 to respond, perhaps don't advertise that you are available 24/7?

good thing next team this group start screaming exit scam no one will trust them

so let's roll next 1-2-3 years

*next time this group

MajesticBank: sure. people said you werent available, but i agree it was premature

exit scam is a strong accusation with no proof

If you'll reread the messages involved, every one of them was pointing to the source of the claim being Dread.

speaking of exit scam, yesterday koe's CCS amount wasnt updating and now the site is down 🫠

Though at this point I am not sure if you want to even read our messages, you seem to just want to throw insults at people

r4v3r23[m]: luigi1111:

MajesticBank: If you would be so kind, can you please clear up the reason for the mass-deletion of posts on your sub-dread and the deletion of the main admin account there? I'm still a bit confused as to whats going on on that front

Just trying to get everything straight in my own head

It's possible that I'm still misunderstanding the situation on dread

r4v3r23[m] all part of the plan (not)

<needmoney90> "MajesticBank: If you would be so..." <- Second this. Its always suspisious if anyone is purging posts or comments, especially at that scale.

Guys

MajesticBank it's not very nice of you to come to IRC and start with personal attacks before clarifying everything that happened. Makes your position weak.

Whats the context?

CidadoisAncap[m] reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/wwwodb…_bank_accused_of_exit_scamming_find

Thx

I did edit that after the above discussion to be more reflective. While I am personally still averse, pending the above question which I also tried to ask, I understand their history and how suddenly bs drama can appear and don't mean to shutdown anyone's who innocent.

<r4v3r23[m]> "luigi1111:..." <- Speaking of ccs proposal, im thinking about creating one regarding translating monero content to brazilian portuguese

No translation ccs' until further notice ( #monero-translations:monero.social to keep updated)

Now, what have i missed , 200+ messages xD

well hot damn, catching up on that tea and whatnot, no idea what MajesticBank was about or whatever but like... so angy u know... and didnt even actually answer to any of the claims but literally just being angy and shifting the blame instead of actually answering anything, that's kinda sus ngl o.o

I really want this to be resolved amicably, I feel an explanation is deserved

Are you keeping up johnfoss68 , alot going on here

<luigi1111w> "r4v3r23 all part of the plan (..." <- i knew it. proposed a next gen protocol and then rug pull

sergiyPustovoito: are you using the latest wallet version? if not, use it. if yes, please verify that whatever transaction you are looking for actually took place if possible using xmrchain.net

So the main issue with this event was 24/7 support not keeping tabs on dread (i can confirm their telegram group listed under 'contact us' had zero messages since aug15, usually people complain there) and the unanswered question of 'who/what/how/why happened on the dread subreddit) ?

To the best of my knowledge, there was a post that had been up for 48 hours ("by /u/thebeast123 🍼 • 2 days ago in /d/CafeDread" according to a user that DMed me) titled "Majestic Bank exit scamming? WARNING". From what I understand, dread was one of the main points of contact for majestic. From that point forward, multiple other threads were made on the subject, and (again, I am not on dread) not responded to by

Majestic.

Some of those threads claimed that the "24/7 support" account had not been responding for a while

At this point we have received no explanation for the majestic dread admin's account deletion and the deletion of the majority of posts from their sub-dread, though I'm holding out hope that this is just a misunderstanding

Some kind of public statement (pgp signed) to address these questions is needed

reddit.com/r/MyMonero/comments/wx971v/mymonero_announcement MyMonero works now?

Tomorrow(tm)*

note that ccs.getmonero.org is currently 404, we're on it

luigi1111: . .. my reply must have overloaded the servers /s

Hey all, I have just tested MajesticBank and have written and taken evidences of everything that happened here:

I just wanted to see myself if all that was being said on Dread was true as MB is listed high on kycnot.me and I don't want scam sites to be listed there... Hope someone can also confirm MB is working for them... I must point out that I have no affiliation at all with MajesticBank.

Kycnot.me > coingecko = confirmed

Tldr. The pluja: transfer was flawless

hi I came over from the monero telegram channel

Hi

> <@pluja:matrix.org> Hey all, I have just tested MajesticBank and have written and taken evidences of everything that happened here:... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…f14ab9274bf23ab49f172a7765b2f75f709)

> <@pluja:matrix.org> Hey all, I have just tested MajesticBank and have written and taken evidences of everything that happened here:... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…57a03ff33b2e977d043cac3fd13aff2f186)

Will the new GUI work on M1 and M2 (ARM) macs? On getmonero.org, it says only Intel macs.

pinging selsta

> <@plowsof:matrix.org> Are you keeping up johnfoss68 , alot going on here

>

Roger

<vikCake[m]> "Will the new GUI work on M1..." <- I believe the arm version _does_

But not a Mac user

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> I believe the arm version _does_

> But not a Mac user

Good

I found a server with 256 gb hdd for 25€ a year guys

Should we cop or nah?

But there's a catch

Only 768 mb of ram

learns nothing from yesterday

you will learn nothing and like it!

What?

nioc: O yea u got a point

I mean hdd xmr node is better than no node tho

r

a

m

?

whats with all the question? you a cop?

kinghat[m]: Cop means get

It's slang

you get got

then got got

Wrong chat

always

Raytina, #monero:monero.social

ofrnxmr[m]: Got it big bro

my last comment was referencing me

.bbl

16:18 <vikCake[m]> Will the new GUI work on M1 and M2 (ARM)  macs?  On getmonero.org, it says only Intel macs. <-- yes

CCS is now working ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/seraphis-library-work.html

got this on Kraken trying to pick up some more XMR to donate to Koe.

I try to do things the right way, but the system is just against us and forces us to use "alternative" ways.

vikCake[m]: kraken status says they currently do maintenance, maybe that's why and you got unlucky with timing

ah ok. so Its not Bill Gates and George Soros working to undermine the human race? 🙃

Verifying - Markets are now in post-only mode. Only new limit, post-only orders can be submitted. Other order types will be rejected. Existing orders can still be cancelled.

False alarm, been in Monero world for so long now I think the world is conspiring against monero

Thank god I have this thing called Cake Wallet and got the monero in few minutes.

* against monero 🤣

seems you hit exactly the 15min window they used for maintenance lol

speaks volumes

but kraken is good usually

selsta: my luck.

endogenic: about my bad luck?

Or Koe's bad luck? :)

Not just monero, most of their trading pairs seem to be post-only right now. Probably something buggy happening internally.

noVik

as usual

<nioc> "CCS is now working ccs...." <- Donated

> <@nioc:libera.chat> CCS is now working ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/seraphis-library-work.html

* Donated 33 XMR

w0w

All you contributors do such amazing work.

Cake wallet would not exist without the cutting edge work of the contributors.

vikCake[m]: thx 4 donation but it isn't showing up on the page

is CCS broken again?

oh 10 confirmations maybe

Shows up with CCS view key. Thanks, Vik.

10 confirms are finished :)

all good

sweet