<j​effro256:monero.social> I know this show is supposed to be less technical, but I was surprised that there was little to no mention on the methods for tracing used for those who wanted a bird's eye view. We got super lucky that the attacker was using a wallet that *appears* to be similar to PocketChange, so we got a whole lot of of output splitting and re-consolidation that the core wallet would warn agai<clipped message>

<j​effro256:monero.social> nst. The answer to this question is pretty straight forward: never reconsolidate more than 2 outputs at a time. Skipping over this detail made Monero seem a lot more traceable than it actually is to layman IMO. The layman would simply consolidate their outputs to one output, not 11, like the hacker did, which makes tracing future hops way harder

<j​effro256:monero.social> To be clear IDK if it was PocketChange, and I don't know if PocketChange's input selection does this by default. If so, this is a good reason why to not use PocketChange unless that code is revised

<j​effro256:monero.social> Reconsolidating multiple outputs from the same source is probably one of, if not the most, sharpest heuristics against sender anonymity

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> jeffro did not steal the CCS funds evidently, thank you jeff , i always knew you where a stand up guy

<j​effro256:monero.social> You can trust me because I said that I didn't steal them and I wouldn't lie to you plowsof

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if they actually used pocketchange and did it to taunt us that would be insane

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> is there a heuristic that says it _was_ actually pocketchange? because the monero-gui can quite easily send to 15~ recipients

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> so to can.. cake.. and others

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> all our "tracing" is best guess

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the cli even (with a bit of ctrl+v in a text file to construct the large string)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its just "more likely" that it was pocketchange if its specifically 11

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/kQKjIwJyfviEUutHTlRgWCeE

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> even the gui has it

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> why would pocketchange make only 11 out tx's and stick out like that?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> doesnt all pocketchange use 11?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> 10 pockets 1 change

<j​effro256:monero.social> There was a transaction which had 11 outputs IIRC, and then a later tx which has 6(?) of those outputs in 6 of its rings. It'd could've been GUI but you'd have to manually type in 10 destinations and for what? Just to re-consolidate them in the very next tx?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i wonder if xmrack and Rucknium have any new things to share from their dive into it

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> or if spackle_xmr has adjusted their churner :)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> github.com/spackle-xmr/MoneroTools 👍️

<j​effro256:monero.social> Yes. It appear so. From anhdres.medium.com/monerujos-pocket…t-is-and-how-it-works-8e1ea1f7489e:

<j​effro256:monero.social> > As long as it’s enabled, every time you use Monerujo to send moneros somewhere, it will take a bigger coin, split it in parts, and spread those smaller coins into 10 different pockets. That way, the coins won’t merge again, and you’ll be ready to spend instantly from all those pockets without waiting the dreadful 20 minutes.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> every major wallet hack needs to use 11 outs to blend in with the crowd moving forward

how am i still connected here holy jesus

irc usually sucks for me anyway goodmorning gentlement

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Good morning sir

what's been good my man

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> @anarkiocrypto.. he's not here but since years? has practiced and advised churning , also wondering what he makes of the recent events

<s​iren:kernal.eu> escapethe3ra: just letting you know that someone is sending very targeted phishing e-mails to monero community devs about monero.observer domain renewal.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…/kernal.eu/LugMDtmaHCmtExaMhCuIFZht

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Does the link really go to that netcup . eu? Because that itself looks pretty legit. The real website under that address, that is.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Hmm

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Of course not, it's a phishing link.

interesting

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Alright :)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Lol

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> virustotal.com/gui/home/upload

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Paste url in ^

<s​iren:kernal.eu> It's behind Bunny CDN and then Cloudflare but then the actual server is down so not operational rn or they're getting ready

<s​iren:kernal.eu> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…/kernal.eu/EQoXjQZUuQjpdXprTdUakQBb

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Is that the address in the phishing link?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> if you receive one if these make sure to:

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - not click links with tracking parameters, if you're curious visit the root url using tor browser

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - block external media such as images in your client

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - double check the link **targets** before clicking on them

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - double check the sender e-mail, the displayed name "Netcup GmbH" doesn't mean anything

<s​iren:kernal.eu> yeah

<s​iren:kernal.eu> we're probably being targeted now because they expect shit opsec from monero community after the CCS incident

<s​iren:kernal.eu> if you receive one of these make sure to:

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - not click links with tracking parameters, if you're curious visit the root url using tor browser

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - block external media such as images in your client

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - double check the link **targets** before clicking on them

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - double check the sender e-mail, the displayed name "Netcup GmbH" doesn't mean anything

<s​iren:kernal.eu> if you receive one of these make sure to:

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - not click links with tracking parameters, if you're curious visit the root url using tor browser

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - block external media such as images in your client

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - double check the link **targets** before clicking on them

<s​iren:kernal.eu> - double check the sender e-mail domain, the displayed name "Netcup GmbH" doesn't mean anything

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Bring it mofo!

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Is that the real from email?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> yeah it's real:

<s​iren:kernal.eu> ```

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Received: from cloud-89a880.managed-vps.net (cloud-89a880.managed-vps.net [78.128.81.241])

<s​iren:kernal.eu> by mail.digilol.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F3A3C1F553

<s​iren:kernal.eu> for <info⊙dn>; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:13:04 +0000 (UTC)

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Authentication-Results: mail.digilol.net;

<s​iren:kernal.eu> dkim=pass header.d=combellbe.com header.s=default header.b=o4RbfoFS;

<s​iren:kernal.eu> spf=pass (mail.digilol.net: domain of infos⊙cc designates 78.128.81.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=infos⊙cc;

<s​iren:kernal.eu> dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=combellbe.com

<s​iren:kernal.eu> ```

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> github.com/alpkeskin/mosint

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Not on spamhaus list too

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<c​trej:matrix.org> Banhammer: BanhammerMonero:

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> [Banhammer](<matrix.to/#/@banhammer:matrix.org>)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> who would take a drug named after reddit

<k​illercat103:matrix.org> Whats it called? Also no

<r​brunner7:monero.social> > we're probably being targeted now because they expect shit opsec from monero community after the CCS incident

<r​brunner7:monero.social> That's a maximally pessimistic view of this :)

<k​illercat103:matrix.org> Just hope they learn and really highten their security practices

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Must be a data scrape

nobody born before the year 2000 uses emojis, that will surely limit the pool of suspects

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Oo

<i​ntr:envs.net> recanman: mind if I dm you?

What the hell is Wockhardt Syrup?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its monero

is an H 1 receptor blocking agent

so an antihistamine

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Used to

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They released an update around 24-48 hrs (before?) The hack, which nade the number more random

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Made*

Are messages being dropped?

nioc: no, seems like ​ofrnxmr is replying to old messages

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> whoops. nioc, i didnt quote

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> was replying to monerobull & jeffro regarding pocketchange always using 11

Thx

Yes but as previously discussed the hacker may not have updated

No auto update

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> How hard is it to install a fucking spell checker. Option 2: Get a ofrnxmr: parser on my end.

a spell checker that engages in sexual activities

weird request trasher, weird

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I that perspective, I agree 😆

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Also, adjust your parser. I was not suggesting an improper relation between a potential spellchecker and ofrnxmr for the record 🤣

you dont want ofrnxmr to have some fun? cmon now :P

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "i that perspective"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Are you my alt?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> With a spellchecker? I'm not judgemental.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Ah, my primary has awoken.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (yes)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Option 2 sounds kinky btw. But a bit off topic, maybe even nsfw

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOarFOS0ZQBxnS6gu8FGueULJuq_kDcTO3bvvaq

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/viQoVJAYxLFoAcjqnXUueKDw

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Better.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> It's Friday night here.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Happy friday good Sir(s)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> NSFW: I had to google that one "not safe for work".

does that bottle say 'headache' in italian ?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> dsc_ No, it's one of the great ones. Barolo is (maybe) a close cousin, but still.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> No I'm on a lame ass Jacob's creek, to finish of the evening.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> *Now I'm ^

<r​ucknium:monero.social> jeffro256, xmrack , plowsof : Last year tevador said "If you want to know my personal opinion, I'm for going all in on privacy. That means removing the tx_extra field and mandating all transactions to have 2 inputs and 2 outputs." monero-project/monero #6668#issuecomment-1195995604

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Requiring 2in/2out for all txs would require dummy inputs: monero-project/research-lab #96

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Consolidations is how Juraj Bednár proposed this probabilistic analysis of Monero merchant revenue at MoneroKon 2023: piped.video/watch?v=-sTT84Up7FY

<r​ucknium:monero.social> We don't really know how requiring 2out/2in for every transaction would affect identifying the real spend since users would still need to do consolidations. It would just happen one output at a time, some time after the 10 block lock. It would also make using Monero annoying for users who need to consolidate. The decoy selection algorithm could be modified to select more from rece<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> nt outputs, but that's not the only thing you would have to consider.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I have some draft code to count likely PocketChange transactions _and_ likely consolidations from many-output txs using the Hungarian algorithm. I'm not ready to release results since I need to double-check everything for correctness. Probably not in the near future since I really need to focus on OSPEAD. People are rightly asking what is taking so long.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> What I see in the draft results is no obvious increase in PocketChange-like transactions per day or week when PocketChange was released, nor an increase in txs that consolidate enotes from 11/12-output txs.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Well it would be a better situation than "one at a time". You can still consolidate any N outputs in O(log N) time b/c each round you consolidate in N/2 transactions

<j​effro256:monero.social> But yeah it would be worse by a certain linear factor

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes, you're right. But broadcasting two consolidation txs at the same time might provide certain information to an observer.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Well max of 2-output would prevent the PocketChange terrible reconsolidation type of tracing

<j​effro256:monero.social> It would still be better than putting it all in the same transaction IMO

<j​effro256:monero.social> You might've taken this into account, but they had a pretty long beta testing period

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I thought the beta testing started at the beginning of May 2023.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Ehhh I think you're right

<j​effro256:monero.social> I think I was thinking of the development time since it was on their roadmap almost 2 years ago

<j​effro256:monero.social> There really is no discernible increase in 11/12-output txs?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Not that I can see with my eyes. To do a proper time series statistical analysis would require a lot more thought. Time series is a complex area of statistics since observations are not usually independent.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Thanks for looking at that!

<j​effro256:monero.social> I know Monerujo is pretty popular among android users but I guess that isn't a big enough slice of total userbase

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2 and 16 ftw

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You have to enable PocketChange. Maybe few users enabled it.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > jeffro256, xmrack , plowsof : Last year tevador said "If you want to know my personal opinion, I'm for going all in on privacy. That means removing the tx_extra field and mandating all transactions to have 2 inputs and 2 outputs." monero-project/monero #6668#issuecomment-1195995604

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Agree, but 2 and 16

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Limiting the number of outputs would not affect the type of analysis that Juraj Bednár did.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Limiting inputs is an issue that i cant wrap my head around

<r​ucknium:monero.social> For P2Pool coinbase output consolidations, you could allow many inputs as a special rule for coinbases.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im in the party of segregate coinbase

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Whatever option maximizes privacy should be priority. But that's just me 😎

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and also dont use rings for coinbase consolidations

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> drain the general fund by making it fund seraphis + full chain membership things

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> What?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> that would optimise privacy in the smallest time frame

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> and funding a "known secure" multisig as Rucknium requested exploring in the last MRL meeting

<r​ucknium:monero.social> But en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I like optimizing privacy, but.. Get that CCS shit together, and do it. ( I have to admit, at this point, I don't think monero multisig is viable)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> "Its central theme is that adding manpower to a software project that is behind schedule delays it even longer."

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> to me that implies we should reduce manpower and let only one person do everything

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> How do you get there? Please break down your reasoning.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> My request was aimed at SNeedlewoods:

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> qwik math ... more men = more time ... less men = less time!?

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> jk btw

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> No answer? Just noise.

<j​effro256:monero.social> You're close to what the author proposes, but not one person doing *everything*, just a small number of people (or one) doing "the programming". Think of an operating room. How many surgeons are there usually? Just 1. There are nurses, people to organize the tools, people who hand the surgeon the tools, people who clean the tools, people monitoring vital signals, people who are ta<clipped message>

<j​effro256:monero.social> king notes just outside the operating room, etc. The author posits that an organizational model like that usually produces the best results when doing software engineering

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> iirc ooo123 asked had anyone achieved anything worth noting as a team , im not sure if there where answers, maybe he was referring to this ^ lol

<i​ntr:envs.net> lmao that name

<j​effro256:monero.social> It's hard to tell if Monero development suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen. I can't tell b/c there's always so much to do, but there's never enough reviewers and testers (except for really important stuff)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> jeffro256: Hanging out on GitHub for a while would show how many people are involved in a single change to the monero code. The MF'er can count all he want's but his math doesn't add up.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Idk sometimes that happens where everyone gets involved in one change, but most of the time you have on person who does almost all the coding work for a PR, then everyone else reviews/suggests small changes/tests

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That's not only that. Bad math = bad boy. Zero argument.

<i​ntr:envs.net> damn I got destroyed™️

<j​effro256:monero.social> By involved in that last comment, I meant involved actually writing code. It's good to have losts of people involved otherwise in things

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> that sound's like an interesting approach jeffro256, but would be really hard to organize for monero I guess?!

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> jeffro256: That Moo dude is my hero. I've been watching for years.

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> sorry trasher if my bad joke offended you

<j​effro256:monero.social> Yeah it would have to happen by volunteerism but I don't think it would be impossible

<j​effro256:monero.social> mooo is a beast

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Np

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes, cows are

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> No worries. I can take shit, not getting offended. I won't shut up though, if I see a challenge 😎

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> s/got/not/ ^ damn keyboard.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Any of you can get me a USB wired danish keyboard, I'm in need.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> This one wont last much longer.

<i​ntr:envs.net> H E L V E T E

<i​ntr:envs.net> wait that's swedish

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fkn ofrnxmr, go fix your spell check

<j​effro256:monero.social> Off-topic, but has there been a public discussion anywhere about securing the general fund?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not too much in public yet

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> svensk jævel :)

<i​ntr:envs.net> ja toch

how is it secured currently? or how to secure it moving forward?

<j​effro256:monero.social> yes

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That isn't Swedish. It's "Ja tak" same as danish.

<i​ntr:envs.net> ga mij niet vertellen hoe ik moet praten vriend

<j​effro256:monero.social> Also, for the record, I want to express that I think it's a bad idea to let the general fund custody the funds for the CCS

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Okay. Fucking dutch. You can gave it :)

<j​effro256:monero.social> The general fund is already a high-value target, we don't need to heap more liability onto that central point of failure

if this is about piggy-backing onto the general fund 2 wallet, that was ruled out as an option

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I agree, the GF should be separate. The CSS must be on it's own.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Fuck. It's in the fingers. The CCS should be on it's own.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Oh really? Has there been an alternative that people have agreed upon since then?

nothing has been agreed upon, but if i piece together a few comments over the past week, deploying temporary measures to get the CCS continuing would be in the projects best immediate-short-term interest

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Sorry. Are we not talking about rebooting the CCS system?

a suggestion of creating a seperate wallet for the CCS, under the same security as was the general fund 2 created. luigi will receive top ups from this to his "secondary ccs wallet" to make payments on demand , as to not hold any funds himself for extended periods of time.

with multisig at this time, not being an option

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Temporary measures has been activated. GF funding active commitments.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Next step: Reboot CCS in a trustworthy environment. Did I get that right?

we await clarification from binaryFate to decide if this is a go - because it would require him to create and secure another wallet (temporarily)

what i wrote above is IMO a realistic option of moving forward

3/7 multisig and what not .... no

so tomorrow at the community meeting, can we even discuss CCS ideas before the immediate short term path forward is clarified? monero-project/meta #920

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I have better ideas

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But plowsof aint bout that life

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That multisig option is not really an option. The traffic required for a transfer is unrealistic. A few OG dudes will do. If they fuck up, I can find them :)

ive got 2 ledgers and a trezor right here, funds would be saifu until the 5$ wrench

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> And you got that key recovery option enabled, right?

(only exists for the expensive ledger model)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So let's opt for that cheap shit. Nobody is looking for those cheap Charlie accounts.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Security by cheapness 🤣

security through obscurity + cheapness -> a pile of 200 ledgers

which one is it plowsof!!!! i dont know anymore

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I was getting there, slowly 😂

meanwhile i would have already pressed the panic button under my desk

and the helicopter swat team funded by the CCS would have arrived

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That's where the Jet fund went, buying plowsof a fucking helicopter.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I new you where in there still ofrn.

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/TbXavWHqtwmefEfuzuZSTZgl

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> My man CZ from binance is secertely a mone maxi

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> I always wondered why XMR was even on binance, it turns out, he gets it.

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> He finishes it off with "The point is, you have a choice"

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> My man CZ from binance is secretely a mone maxi

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> But he fails to convey the message, that monero can't be frozen, as long as you hold the keys.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cz got paid

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lmao

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tl "xmr got hacked. As far as i know, theres no way for me to know if the 2675 xmr was deposited onto my exchange"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> lolol NGU

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> We all know theres pressure on all exchanges to drop XMR

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> Binance has neverd budged

<l​ouis.signet:monero.social> He clearly likes it and understands its purpose

well, its in his interest to support as many coins as his users expect, and I can imagine he is subject to a less stringent regulatory environment being a non-US / non-western citizen

for example, the biggest Dutch exchange does not list XMR, most probably because they fear their license to operate

it is all really silly, Monero is just cash, true electronic fungible cash, and as the project grows exchanges will have to adopt it at some point

I say all this because CZ praising XMR is irrelevant, he only does that because he is aware he *can*. I think most people know XMR is 'the true bitcoin' (c)(tm) but these external factors prevent them from admitting it

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> How is Kraken exchange able to keep support/listing Monero?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Could it be that they actually do reliable audits with solid accounting, I don't know.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Probably because they obey local laws, for example, no real money for people in UK, but outside of UK it's available

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Maybe not in some EU place

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Oh, brother - I'm not in the EU anymore. I left that shit a long time ago.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I do feel bad for those I left behind.

Kraken is one of the few to operate in the EU, I can imagine some get a pass, but most do not

from a risk management perspective the EU figures it is best to only let some vetted parties through

I reject the premise that Monero is a risk though

you can apply the exact same anti-money laundering laws to Monero as with physical cash

these 2 are interchangeable, as Monero is effectively cash

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Depends of definition of risk, and to what it's a risk 😎 It's Monero, bitches.

you can even make the argument that Monero is more trackable than physical cash because there is such a thing as tx id's and (limited) blockchain heuristics

yeah cash locally and monero over the interwebs

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> dsc_ Let me know when you find me. I'm not hiding.

some want to get rid of cash

nioc: especially NL wants to limit cash usage, via all kinds of laws and withdrawal limits

<i​ntr:envs.net> are you dutch? dsc_

yes I am

but I live in eastern europe

<i​ntr:envs.net> partijtje gezellig

zeker, net nog een kroket gegeten :P

<i​ntr:envs.net> haha

<i​ntr:envs.net> hebben ze die daar aan het oostfront? zal toch niet?

ik heb een soort van snackbar gevonden, amazing really

gewoon kwekkeboom lol

<i​ntr:envs.net> wauw

yep

<i​ntr:envs.net> which country? or rather not share

sofia, bulgaria

<i​ntr:envs.net> oh shit

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Hmm

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> me too

<i​ntr:envs.net> ofrnxmr: ja toch?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But only on fridays

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Isnt that scam capital of the world?

123bob123: I had an apartment a few minutes walk from the One Coin HQ

lol

they seem to still be open. wtf :P

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> There is a sucker born everyday

they target ignorant folk in their marketing

*every minute

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Nioc got sucked in

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> !

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Its a trap

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Anything east of Vienna is scammers. Those post USSR regions are the worst 😬

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Da comrade

its not so bad, you do not notice it just by living here

petty crime is non-existent

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Da 🤣

however, the government is corrupt

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Normally they dont shit where they sleep

but I would also say that about the Dutch government

e.g the procurement of contracts

it happens everywhere

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Dude, I'm in Thailand. I hear you.

was the visa hard to obtain?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> No, I'm an old motherfucker, so retirement visa is easy.

ah yeah

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 27+ years down the line, I'm not likely to return to europe.

europe is a big place, west and east are quite different. I am also not going back to the west for a while.

<i​ntr:envs.net> Any reason you picked bulgaria?

<i​ntr:envs.net> I too am quite ready to oprotten uit dit kk land

I know that feeling intr

So Bulgaria has a flat 10% income tax, on jaarbasis you scheel a lot of geld

and there are actual apartments available ;')

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> When I see buddies from the old world, and they tell me about all the checks and balances they have to meet, all the rules they have to comply to, I know I won't fix in.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> They even warn me, don't come back, you won't like what your country has become.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I thing I 'm gonna stay right here, thank you.

<i​ntr:envs.net> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…dc59c700827569a91723054299266678784

<i​ntr:envs.net> that income tax sounds best wel geil, my only real issue is I don't speak discount-russian (I barely speak russian as it stands)

<i​ntr:envs.net> Is the IRC side still on libera?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Also, you should think about, why there are apartments available. Nobody, unless they have to, wants to live there 😬

<i​ntr:envs.net> Which should make you think about why apartments are not (as much) available in NL despite the entire country being filled to the brim with urban planning

intr: every aspect of life here is cheaper, you can divide it by 2 compared to NL, this includes apartments too

and in the case of income tax, that is quite a big difference

<i​ntr:envs.net> yeah but again, я не говорю по-болгарски

my broken Bulgarian is enough to navigate through society

<i​ntr:envs.net> and they don't beat you up over it?

petty crime is non existent, NL is more dangerous to walk at night

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> The amount of "refugees" invading northern Europa, kind of exhausts the market of available apartments. Don't get me started on this shit.

<i​ntr:envs.net> TrasherDK: I know, just saying

trasher: are you from denmark?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Yes. I'm Danish.

<i​ntr:envs.net> Is the IRC side still on libera? <<>> yes

<i​ntr:envs.net> cringe?

cringe.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Cringe, what?

don't worry about it

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I don't, just curious.

zoomer-speak

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Kids 😂

ok boomer

:^)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I was waiting for that one, kid.

intr: same dynamics happening in the US where some are choosing to go live in Mexico for various reasons, often financial

or thailand ;')

yeah I figured as much. I've been eyeballing some places up north in scandinavia (I don't like hot weather) but shit's expensive

personally not a big fan of south-east asia

insects are too big

and they try to sell you stuff

apartments, refugees and urban planning are better suited for -offtopic

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Yeah, but nothing else going on here.

sorry for offtopic

trasherdk: nothing going on over there either

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Nothing but spam. I left that channel earlier today, reading the back-log.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You do not have to ask. Go ahead

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Going offline. Later...

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Its a trap

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> interloper 502 error when joining, try sending it again

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> nitter.net/SamouraiDev/status/1723005450420212159

<i​ntr:envs.net> I hate matrix so much sometimes

<i​ntr:envs.net> recanman: try adding me

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Sure

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> What client?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Element

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> If its element try through webapp

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> No, I think its the server

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Clear cache

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Fixes everything on element

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I’ve been haked

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> “ clear cache”

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> “wow fixed”

<i​ntr:envs.net> Many such cases

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Doesn't work interloper

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Maybe homeserver issue?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Yes, it is

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Not sure which side

<i​ntr:envs.net> Let me just quickly test

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I think it is interloper's server that has an issue

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> #monero- pos- matrix- support

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> We are not on Monero.social

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I am on agoradesk.com, he is on envs.net

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Neg

<i​ntr:envs.net> recanman: it's your server, I can add Dan just fine

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Your hs

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Let me check

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I don't operate my server

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Pong alex

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Could you try creating a room with me again?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I would like to see the error

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I can be mitm

<i​ntr:envs.net> yeah it's not a hugely private matter

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Send me message and i’ll forward secrecy it

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Oh, really? I thought you were joking

<i​ntr:envs.net> lmao

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> No

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Lol

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Well, if you'd like to. Awaiting messages from Dan

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Now try with seed phrase 😬

<i​ntr:envs.net> :^)

<t​ired_turtle:matrix.org> If I want to make my transactions public, do I expose the public view keys or the secret view key?

<t​ired_turtle:matrix.org> If I want to make my transactions public, do I expose the public view key or the secret view key?

public view key is already a part of your Monero address

you expose the secret view key

<e​scapethe3ra:matrix.org> thanks, posted a warning message on the site (note that this is not the first time, it happened to at least one other community member to my knowledge)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> #monero-privsec