<a​remor:matrix.org> But your followers follow you at your relay location. They might not find you again

<a​remor:matrix.org> The concern on Tik Tok is more so Influence, not privacy

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> On Nostr identity is independent from relays. They find you.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> TikTok is the way NPC's need and found for experiencing that weird thing we use to call "imagination".

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Imagine being unable of imagining anything at all? Wouldn't you become addict to something that provides an approximation to that experience?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> TikTok is the way NPC's need and found for experiencing that weird thing we use to call "imagination".

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Imagine being unable of imagining anything at all. Wouldn't you become addict to something that provides an approximation to that experience?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> TikTok is the way NPC's need and found for experiencing that weird thing we use to call "imagination".

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Imagine being unable of imagining anything at all. Wouldn't you become addict to something that provides you with an approximation to that experience?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Find you how?

<a​remor:matrix.org> You need to know their relay

<a​remor:matrix.org> Good luck if they went to a private relay

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> They get references to you on some note by someone, then the client tries to reach that note, finds your relays, ends up finding you. The client does the magic.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Clients are relay-promiscuous.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Very gossip-ish kind of protocol.

<a​remor:matrix.org> lol so your continued identity is dependent on someone else graciously helping you out for no reason at all? And essentially not built into the protocol itself? So dependent on the random generosity of evil human beings?? And that’s a reliable identity system?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…iberty.org/uOaotLHqMRamdcPRlmDptaSz

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Yes

<a​remor:matrix.org> Exactly. Incredibly flawed

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Nah, cryptography protects your identity, it is indeed reliable.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I was around when they were establishing that protocol and told them how stupid it was and no one cared

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Incredibly clever, actually.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Just as centralized as mastodon essentially

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Provably orders of magnitude more decentralized.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Right now, I can spin up a relay and we can continue our conversation on my relay, and all of a sudden you'll begin seeing notes of people all around the world.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Nobody can suppress, steal, or impersonate your identity.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Right now, I can spin up a relay and we can continue our conversation on my relay, and all of a sudden you'll begin seeing notes of people all around the world.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Nobody can suppress, steal, or forge your identity.

<a​remor:matrix.org> They had an opportunity to make a truly decentralized network the way that btc and xmr share transactions from node to node but some idiot was stuck on trying to make nodes overly dumb and too much responsibility in clients

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> That's not decentralized, that's distributed.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> it's a form of decentralization.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The p2p model was already tried, it's not practical, unless we're talking something like Keet.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Still to be battle-tested.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The p2p distributed model was already tried, it's not practical, unless we're talking something like Keet.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Yet to be battle-tested.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I guess that means monero, Bitcoin, and BitTorrent are not practical then….. even RAID storage systems are “not practical” apparently

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> It's good for what it's used.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The classic gossip protocol.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> And you still need relays for it, if you're gonna run it on mobile networks.

<a​remor:matrix.org> No one said get rid of relays

<a​remor:matrix.org> And no one said anything about stealing identities

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> See it this way:

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> On Mastodon the admin is the absolute god over your account, and ultimately domain registrars.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> On Nostr you are the absolute god over your account. Your notes will find a way, no matter what.

<a​remor:matrix.org> You can say that a million times but that still does make it true. The client must know the relay. And there is no system of guaranteeing that

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> That's the beauty of it.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> There is no system of guaranteeing that, and yet, it works.

<s​gp_:monero.social> Yeah but you can be your own admin....

<s​gp_:monero.social> It's like wallet vs node

<s​gp_:monero.social> For monero

<s​gp_:monero.social> Wallet users don't have to use another person's node. They can run their own node. Similarly a Mastodon user can run their own server, like they would run their own relay for their followers to subscribe to

<s​gp_:monero.social> Having your own nostr account doesn't guarantee people will share your messages. You need your own relay to actually distribute content

<s​gp_:monero.social> *guarantee the content is distributed

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Everyone being their own admin is just making the (real) domain owner (the registrar) the admin.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Also not feasible, domains are expensive.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I will distribute your notes, no problem.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> No guarantees, true, yet it works.

<s​gp_:monero.social> docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/optional/tor

<s​gp_:monero.social> Host your Mastodon over tor, no domain needed afaict

<a​remor:matrix.org> Altruism works in the real world apparently

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> That's cool

<a​remor:matrix.org> That’s why block rewards and tx fees are unnecessary

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> This will probably be **the** way for a lot of stuff in the near future.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Social networking is the opposite of adversarial. Different use cases.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Then why have private keys? They’re unnecessary….

<a​remor:matrix.org> Magic!!

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Why having PGP? It's unnecessary (by the same logic)

<a​remor:matrix.org> Now you’re cooking

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> If you're thinking "censorship"... **yes,** there is and there will always be censorship.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Just like with Mastodon, only less.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Think that "everyone has their own Mastodon over hidden services" idea, except much simpler, lighter and inexpensive, and it works even for non-technical people.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Wrong again. No one is talking about censorship. You keep getting off topic…

<x​mrscott:monero.social> On Nostr, once someone steals your key you’re toast. There’s no account recovery unlike the fediverse where you can just run your own node and restore from a backup and reset password and 2FA. And the Nostr infrastructure and apps are so poorly made it’s very easy to accidentally give away your own key to a malicious agent. Nostr is extremely unforgiving which is what you want for adoption

<x​mrscott:monero.social> On Nostr, once someone steals your key you’re toast. There’s no account recovery unlike the fediverse where you can just run your own node and restore from a backup and reset password and 2FA. And the Nostr infrastructure and apps are so poorly made it’s very easy to accidentally give away your own key to a malicious agent. Nostr is extremely unforgiving which is what you do<clipped message>

<x​mrscott:monero.social> n’t want for adoption

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Not your keys not your coins.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Bank account better because recovery.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Same logic.

<x​mrscott:monero.social> No it’s not. You can’t spin up a $5/month bank business

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s the same logic

<a​remor:matrix.org> s/nostr/cryptocurrency in that statement and the exact same logical argument is being made

<x​mrscott:monero.social> No it’s not, you’re conflating a bank which is a very different entity from a RPi running out of your closet

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Losing all your followership and identity because of an overzealous admin... that's "unforgiving".

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Mastodon is dead.

<x​mrscott:monero.social> You seem to keep missing that you can be your own admin with Mastodon

<a​remor:matrix.org> I was a big advocate for Nostr in the beginning is what hurts. I look forward to Nostr-2, which will actually be distributed. Nostr-1 is just as evil centralized as everything before it IMO

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> You meaning my grandma?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> No, she can't.

<x​mrscott:monero.social> So you’re saying Nostr is more easy for your grandma to use?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> absolutely

<a​non9843:matrix.org> Nostr is also heavily promoted by Edward Snowden

<a​remor:matrix.org> What value does this have?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Snowden is CIA.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I still care about what he says, smart spook.

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> stop larping bro

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> It seems Monero has already left Thailand 😢

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> orbixtrade.com/en/blog/article/anno…shgraph-hbar-by-orbix-trade-co-ltd-

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Binance probably provided a lot of the coins for them tbh.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> As long as we can get monero into every country, & build networks then we can replicate, grow, and expand.

<l​asthayek:matrix.org> you are absofucking right

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Thank you, lasthayek.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I want the social media problem solved but unfortunately it’s one that I’m not ready to tackle yet.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> If you, or anyone else are curious to how I would tackle the social media problem you are free to inquire via Dm, or in The Monero off topic chat.

Have any of the swapping services announced what they are doing in a post-Binance world?

not "announced" in public, but ye

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> wdym, he literally worked for both the CIA and the NSA, it's in his fucking curriculum

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> And you **never** leave the CIA totally.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Please use this channel for discussion of Monero. Off topic discussion can go in #monero-offtopic:monero.social

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Pretty much on topic, Rucknium

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> If you can't see how it is on topic I'd suggest you pay more attention.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> This is about Monero **community**

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> how to build community, etc.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> No, its totally off topic

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Crypto influencers, including Snowden, are a big deal in this, like or not.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> not for this room, elaryan

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> So yeah, you will hear about influencers from time to time, keep your overzealous irc ego besides.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> This isnt monero-tinfoil or monero-crypto

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> yhis is monero community WORKgroup

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Wrong room,

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Monero Monero Offtopic are the correct rooms

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Excuse me but who the fuck are you? Don't like it? use the mute button. It is on topic.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Its off topic

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> not work related = not on topic

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Monero is for general monero discussion.

<s​ilverpill:poa.st> Yes. And I'm working on solving the identity and data portability problem

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> For the last time, this is monero COMMUNITY.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> We're talking social networks, influencers, stuff like that is about COMMUNITY.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> rtfm and learn to use the mute button when you don't like some conversation.

elaryan is like a mini ofrnxmr

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> If you want something more specific than that, fine, write it down and put it on the topic.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> lol midipoet, thanks

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> thanks for the "mini" part

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> 😂

Elaryan is nothing like me or my alts, midi

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> 🙏 mr plowsof was just recently given the power to change the topic

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> btw, talking about spooks living in Russia, I'm going to off-topic to talk about navalny

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> So we can finally do that 😭

<s​ilverpill:poa.st> Nostr has good ideas, but as some people already pointed out the community mostly consists of bitcoiners, while Fediverse is more heterogeneous. People from FOSS and privacy communities are already using it. I also don't like the client-server architecture of Nostr, how it is tied to bitcoin cryptographic primitives and how media storage and web presentation are afterthoughts. Yes<clipped message>

<s​ilverpill:poa.st> , these things may be fixed in the future, but I'd rather fix the more popular protocol.

<s​ilverpill:poa.st> If anyone is interested this is the extension of ActivityPub protocol that should enable portability codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/ef61/fep-ef61.md

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> That's cool.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Also make it smolr.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> It looks like r/Monero has shut down, and all the redditoors have migrated here.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Personally, I've decided to use both one advantage to Nostr since it connects to multiple relays. You don't get downtime where your instance is offline and you can't access the network at all.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Any recommendation for a desktop nostr client that actually work?

<a​non9843:matrix.org> Lume is a great client. Do not use Gossip as it is a buggy mess

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Well, look like Lume is still a broken mess, just in a different way

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> ** Going to retry Nostr in a year or too, maybe it will work correctly then... hope

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> \*\* Going to retry Nostr in a year or too, maybe it will work correctly then... hope

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Lume:

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> * Can't resize windows, only full screen or small window

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> * Suicide itself it you do too much, like after following two-three people.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Prinal.net

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Its a browser client, but its good

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I'm not into browser clients, try again

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Ideally a client made using a language for adult like C/C++ instead of a JS/Node/Electron mess would be nice

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> What's the point of using some decentralized thing if you have to rely on a specific website

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If it dies (like now it say DNS probe failed), you have to search for an alternative... At lease with a proper client, you can continue to use it while you search for an alternative

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Ah wait, it's "primal.net", not "prinal.net"

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But.. it's still a site

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Yes, if money isn’t “normie” then it isn’t money.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/eBakUTsvWQduDEYChegxEuDP

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Update regarding the email @midipoet.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/LZofEEAzoCEfiyAJpfreNURj

Even less informative than I imagined it would be.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> It is worth the shot.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> If it works then great, if not then at the very least they know that there are some consumers out there who would be interested in that.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Either way, by not saying anything businesses aren’t informed of market demand.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Probably a bot response

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> This is literally a canned response

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> WE WANT HAVEN!

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> same email s/monero/haven, press send

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Try this: ask them about listing ofrnxmr token

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Theyll write back "thanks for reaching out regarding adding Ofrnxmr as a token ..."

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Bruh, I know it’s probably a copy, and paste email but I’m not going to troll them about it.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Dont troll me with it either then

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Thats a nonresponse

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> It seems like the flexa network is open to different wallets, so realistically we’d have to ask wallets in our community to reach out.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I mean Dash network is going to implement it.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I was giving midipoet the update.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Dash is trash. Have you ever ran a node?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> nobody cares what masternode bitcoin does

I synced ltc, btc, firo, dash and pivx for basicswap

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Shill

Dash and pivx are lol. Pivx acts like its mining xmr on one thread (but its pos). Dash rpc just dies

And the whole dash chain stopped a few months ago

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Door dash chain

(yes i disabled pix and dash in bsx and brought ram usage from 9gb to 3.5 running particl, btc, ltc and firo + monero walllet rpc + os with desktop environment) and cpu usage down to near nothing at idle, vs constantly at 100% on one thread with pivx and dash eating 4 gb of ram for 0 transaction throughput. Pivx literally costing me me hashes