<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> selsta, are you sure?

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> My thinking is that even if 100% of the pre-flood tx volume (~100kB per block) is paying higher fees, that volume is not enough to consistantly fill 300+ kB blocks. By the time miners build a 300 kB block, there would rarely be any high fee txs left to push against the penalty median.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I think only the flood txs are responsible for moving the penalty median.

but pre-flood they wouldn't pay higher fee due to lack of backlog?

but i'm not sure, no. it's just what i have read from others. higher fees -> faster block size increase.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Sure, but I am saying it doesn't matter how much a steady 100 kB pays in fees if there are never any high fee txs available when it is time to weigh fees against the penalty.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> The miners run out of high fees before they get to the penalty median, and are left with the same choice: Do I include another minimum fee transaction, and pay this penalty?

maybe the entity will update to 18.3.2 :D

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> In other words, you need enough higher fee txs to consistently fill blocks to the penalty median for them to matter for block size expansion.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> preland: I wrote a simulation of the scaling algorithm. If you give me a tx volume I can run the simulation with minimum fees and see what happens.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I can give you different values, but the tx volume has changed a bit over time so it is hard to say what will actually happen.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Doing lazy math, let's say we are seeing 2tx per second. That is 240 tx in a block, with each flood tx being ~1.5kB. So we need 360 kB blocks to consistently clear that. The network should get to that about a day from now.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> In reality I think we are seeing less than that at the moment, but volume has been variable and it wouldn't surprise me if it increased further.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Is that out?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> might have already started using it ;)

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> /s

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i think we should talk about how to adopt the situation; nodes being slow and poisoned outputs.

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> no you get ridiculed for asking questions, its all organic 🤣

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> lets assume its organic, still nodes being slow which is problem.

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> free benchmark on mainnet.

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> i am sure devs are looking into it

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> decoy selection, is also important

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> plus fee algo, which chain makes it cheaper to spam as the scale increases

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> The fees only reduce after the long term median adjusts. That happens ~70 days from now.

we have improved node and wallet performance in v0.18.3.1 – but a lot of people haven't upgraded which causes extra load on nodes

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Well, if happens 70 days from now if volume is consistently above 300 kB for the entirety of that time.

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Hey I'm gonna post the XMR node on the SimplifiedPrivacy server. Should we get a list going of semi-public nodes that work?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> There in feather and monero gui already

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> You mean the node list is updated?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> 15.204.197.8:18081

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> 192.168.1.150:18081

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 10.150.0.22:18081

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> 111.90.140.158:18081

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/QMJorJXvfOKBsGJVAcFlHZja

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> BTW, I think one of the attack gone or something

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> they failed to bring my node down 😂

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> RPC latency went down an order of magnitude

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Noob disable hibernate in power options

Lol

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> is the congestion a serious problem?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Congestion was caused by a now fixed bugs that prevented the auto fee selection algo to choose higher fees.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's fixed now, and all wallet will pick up the fix real soon

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That fix will also help the blocks to grow faster

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> maybe time to try "start_mining_for_rpc" feature?

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> awesome!!!!!

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> will a similar issue happen again

@ dan yes bitcart uses seths by default. Its hardcoded. But you can change it

"Hey I'm gonna post the XMR node on the SimplifiedPrivacy server. Should we get a list going of semi-public nodes that work" no

"maybe time to try "start_mining_for_rpc" feature?" Just force spammers to pay the actual cost of the spam - 5x or greater

The custom fees theyre using arent benificial either. I see no reason to allow fees outside of the calculation. Shouldnt be able to send a 200001 picp/byte tx

20001*

"It's fixed now, and all wallet will pick up the fix real soon" < half of a fix, as it improves UX for users, but also allows for a cheaper attack

And the big issue with the "attack", now, seems to be that its effecting the ability for nodes to stay in sync of they are being used for services

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> ?

which ?

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Yes, I've read some wallets unusable

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> If using public nodes

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> this is a big problem IMO

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Even tor nodes?

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Are there ways to make nodes more resistant?

its the nodes. Yeah. I think these nodes should pay attn to rpc traffic and see if they are being used to broadcast the spam

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> We might have found the culprit 😂

Yeah, dont allow public rpc

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> I mean probably many nodes just wrong specs

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> what was it?

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Rust monero node

<p​reland:matrix.org> No way 🦀

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Yes

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> will a similar event happen again

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Ahhaaha I misread the message

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Can't users find the nodes which submit this? Or is this all by remote nodes

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Attack seam to have stopped when the words "Tencent cloud computing" where said in another Monero channel

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Or one of the attack stopped (the load of my node went way down in the same minute)

i think it may be possible that public rpc nodes are actively being spammed

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> or does d++ protect too much against any kind of analysis

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Yes, node providers should post some data

Ie, spammer isnt using their own node, but trying to take down cakes, feathers, seen nodea

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> So it was a good idea to not spam nostr

Node providers dont keep logs when possible

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Its good that we now found some problems

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> If this spam continues, is this the longest attack ever on xmr?

No

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yep, they began to hammer my node the second it was added to feather (I initially tought it was feather user but no, the load went byebye but the RPC hit per interval just went down "a little"

1/16 was longer, i think? Maybe im wrong

<p​reland:matrix.org> Define attack

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> I'm surprised that there isn't like a "monero is hacked" sentiment already pushing price down

And xmr has had oscillating daily traffic for years

Thats the longest i think

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Active wide spread network damaging attack

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> is it possible that this happens again? What caused it in the first place?

Hm. Probably banning ofrnxmr

Yolo

<p​reland:matrix.org> It’s probably because the transaction times are still lower than others

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

I wont accept 600k from irs. I need at least 60m

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> "Tencent cloud computing" caused it, my guess considering they stop when we mentioned it.

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> huh

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Would be cool if we at least got larger ring size until seraphis & fcmp

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Fmcp*

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> someone said the issue was fixed

Dont need bigger rings

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The Chinese Communist Party

Need clean ones

Wownero has 22 rings, rheir effective ring size like like 1

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> the fix in monero code is to prevent legitimate monero transaction to be delayed when such attack occure

Thats one of moneros biggest roflmfao wtf moments

We just keep raising ring size pretty much arbitrarily

<p​reland:matrix.org> The sad thing is, I’m pretty sure someone could do this attack with a small amount of resources

<p​reland:matrix.org> Heck; if I was bored/angry at Monero for some reason and had extra time to burn, I could probably write a modified monero-cli that literally just constantly splits outputs until the wallet is drained

<p​reland:matrix.org> Divide 1 XMR by 20 nano-Nero, and that’s how many bytes I’d shove into mem-pool temporarily, and permanently onto the blockchainZ

Lets not, like, yknow, not add bs to rings. Lets just allocate more space for bs

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> And we just didn't be aware of the issue because there was no test of this before where the bug would've shown itself

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> can't we simulate attacks on stage/test net

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> And look

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> temporary solution: blacklist last week's outputs

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> so is it a serious issue or no?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

These attacks have been done

And practiced

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Sauron has only 19 rings.

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Nah

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> but only needs one

serious issue? meh. Ux for users is fine

Issues are fixable. Like the rpc race, or the min fee

Better that it happened under an attack than real adoption

Attacks have limited resources. Adoption is forever.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> attacks help products mature

<p​reland:matrix.org> True

And the best part? Delist, spam, do whatever you want. were not going anywhere, not even down in price

<p​reland:matrix.org> Actually it’s pretty good this happened before Haveno tried to launch

<p​reland:matrix.org> It already had enough going against it, it doesn’t need anything else to go wrong lol

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> ofrnxmr[m]: I guess I mean is there something fundamentally wrong with monero?

Right this second? Just bugs

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Free pentesting

<p​reland:matrix.org> Fundamentally there is something wrong with everything

<p​reland:matrix.org> Nothing in this world is perfect

But also right this second people are torture testing to find out how to reproduce in a vacuum and how to solve

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Not me

Ofrnxmr is perfect. Blasphemy

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I am perfect too mum

ofrnxmr*

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

My mom told me i was just perfect. Meaning, im not anything else!

But no, at this point in time, unless someone give me 60m, im going bk to sleep

<p​reland:matrix.org> I’m imperfect; that’s why I make the mistakes that others won’t make

<p​reland:matrix.org> I’ll be the biggest idiot in the room so that the one time I actually do something useful it’ll be worth it

Im not worried about these amateurs

Preland.. i am the biggest idiot in the room. Why do you think im so noisy

<p​reland:matrix.org> Instructions unclear: do you accept 50m ElonMoonShotCoin?

no

Xmr only

<p​reland:matrix.org> Ig I can’t argue with that

<p​reland:matrix.org> I think you are going to have to wait till 24,097 to have 60m XMR

Hard to argue with dumb ppl. I would know. I talk to myself more than anyone

400k xmr

Kucoin claimed to have 9m

I dont see what the problem is. Are they broke?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Why can’t we make Monero propaganda with quotes like this instead of the generic “track this” or “privacy good” stuff

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

<b​az:monero.social> 😂

I posted my monero address. Been waiting for them to pay for the service. Cheap asses

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> I'm a little drunk I might be repeating myself but is this something to worry about or is it sorted?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Tencent is jealous; they want us to use Clash of Clans gems for transactions instead

Partially sorted, the other half is being investigated intensely by a few devs

<p​reland:matrix.org> Most likely no

<p​reland:matrix.org> You won’t be able to buy a coffee with XMR in its current state

<p​reland:matrix.org> But I don’t think your barista would rly want to wait 20m for confirmation time anyways

Other half being the nodes

I can buy coffe with xmr rn

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yeah the node part is what concerns me

I jsut need to use a wallet that has the fee repaired

see.. the good thing?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Hmm

If public nodes all turn ofd their rpc, were find

Fine*

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Why wouldn't you be able to buy a coffee with XMR right now?

Users just need to have rpc nodes that they TRUST and stop using default attack points

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Why would the barista wait 20m? the tx should be in a block in 2

the monero node was never designed to have tons of connections, something like monero-lws would be better suited for that

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If it's tencent, they made a mistake... hahaha

<p​reland:matrix.org> Transaction delays

<p​reland:matrix.org> Although tbh just pay more for fees, it should be fine

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/epRQYFbAWnMSTtFPLlJQeHds

Selsta - rpc was clearly not designed to _handle_ a lot of connection

But next to btc, it was clearly intended to

yes monerod wallet rpc wasn't designed to have tons of wallets connected

<p​reland:matrix.org> Cuz the barista is paranoid? Idk, I was just pointing out that the output locking may still be an issue for some use cases

<p​reland:matrix.org> Especially if Monero gets back ported to pre-existing financial systems (no one wants to get “Abagnaled”)

if the tx pool has less than 300kb of 5x fee tx in it

You can be sure youll make it into next block

If whole pool had 5x fees, those tx will clear and blocks will grow much more quickly

<p​reland:matrix.org> Weird question: do the core Monero executables (daemon, rpc etc.) use multi-threading?

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> why is this

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yes

<p​reland:matrix.org> Ok good

<p​reland:matrix.org> Which one

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> just use normal fee, or wait for the weekend to pass then update your wallet and it will do it for you

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yeah; although in the future I could see ultra-light UX-focused wallets just wouldn’t have the fee option user-changeable

Imo theres no reason to allow anyone to set any fee lower than auto

<p​reland:matrix.org> Not an issue now, but it wouldn’t be shocking

<p​reland:matrix.org> Plus you can’t change the fee afterwards so your output is locked…..i think?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That's the idea of Auto (for example feather wallet don't have the fee option)

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But Auto is what was broken

And no reason to allow anyone to set any fee to any custom value

<p​reland:matrix.org> And that is what is kinda terrifying lol

<p​reland:matrix.org> At least we figured this out now

well, thats why were v0.18 and not v1.18

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> is monero fucked?

Were still early as far as adoption goes

<p​reland:matrix.org> For now no

maybe if someone competent was paid to do it

This spammer spams as if they get paid by the hour

Ripping off their financiers

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> monerochan still a virgin

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> How is auto fee calculated? Is it network consensus?

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Or just median or smt got from node

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Jeez, we finally get to see the system in action under some serious load and people start freaking out left and right

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Yeah IRS great

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Its*

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Just asking

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Oh I was referring to the messages above

1 sec

auto fee is not consensus

auto fee is impossible as consensus

Something like if last n blocks are greater than 80% full, wallets auto bump. Theres a couple rules for wallets

I haz node, I haz wallet = tx with no problem

I don't use your node

I think impossible is a stretch. We change fees at hardforks with a grace period, could do the same in reverse

impossible if it's based on the txpool state

yeah. But wallets also use 80% full blocks as a trigger

Everyone ask Santa for your own node

Which would come after a full pool. Wallets can keep sending high fee when pool is full but blocjs are not

Nodes dont need to require normal fee until the second condition (full blocks), and nodes should reverrt before wallets as well

considering Cat has her own wallet imma gunna get her her own node

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/fnXpyKMumYWvdKyEtkukRsdo

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Beginning of a possible new wave

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> wdym

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> number (CPU usage and mempool bytes) go up

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> number (Bandwidth, CPU usage and mempool bytes) go up

<p​reland:matrix.org> Here is what I will say: if the party involved is using the “output hydra” method, then their ability to flood transactions increases as they do it (ie each output turns into two, which turns into 4, etc. etc.)

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, using 1:2 for the attack

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> it's what they are doing

<p​reland:matrix.org> We haven’t seen that

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yet

<p​reland:matrix.org> So either we are fine…..or the worst is ahead of us (or at least for whoever accidentally transacts using auto fee)

<p​reland:matrix.org> Oh that was already confirmed

<p​reland:matrix.org> Hmm

<p​reland:matrix.org> I wonder why it stabilized like it did then

<p​reland:matrix.org> It should just continually double until the outputs are so small they can’t individually afford a single transaction cost

<p​reland:matrix.org> And then it drops off

<p​reland:matrix.org> Maybe a compute limitation? idk lol

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it's not an attack

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's a stress test :)

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> lol

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It tell us what to improve

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it will end within the next few days

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> pharaoh needs to withdraw

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> if xmr can't handle this organic amount of txs, we are no better than btc

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Why would you think Monero can't handle it?

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it can and will handle it

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> but the worry about this surge is hilarious

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> If this stops tonight/tomorrow I would not even call it a stress test, more of a relaxation text.

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it will stop once pharaoh is done withdrawing

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> if I had to guess this will be within the next few days as the guy probably has 400k+ accounts

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> at the very minimum

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Pharaoh?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yeah wait who

<p​reland:matrix.org> I mean 400k accounts would do it lol

<p​reland:matrix.org> Although how would you even amass such an amount of accounts

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> ignorance is bliss

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> rest assured, this is not caused by an attack. it's organic and will end soon

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Hmm

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> i'm surprised at how no one was able to make the obvious connection, especially since it went public 3 days ago

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Random idea ... What if a small CPU proof of work was required to accompany every transaction, as another defense against transaction spam attacks?

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Why must we talk in riddles 😂

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> have you not seen the glowies in general?

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> ofrnxmr is being targeted

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> No actually, but Im not super active here either

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> monerobull too

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Yikes

<p​reland:matrix.org> Btw can we retire the Monero subreddit and have it link to a better Reddit alternative?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Disclaimer: I’m being botted because I defended another person who is also getting botted on the subreddit. Reddit is cancer, and we shouldn’t support it.

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> u Inaeipathy?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Nope. That’s who I was defending.

<p​reland:matrix.org> Username on there is preland as well. You can clearly see when it started lol

<p​reland:matrix.org> They also sometimes bot rbrunner if he says something “they” don’t like

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> I know who the botters are

<p​reland:matrix.org> Whoever it is is trying to control the Monero narrative, and it isn’t good. Especially optics wise.

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> these people won't stop even if u switch subreddits

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> general was also being raided by btc (glowies) yesterday

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> they've found the matrix

<p​reland:matrix.org> I don’t get why btc people would want to attack xmr

<p​reland:matrix.org> Like ???

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> u don't understand

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it's not btc people

<p​reland:matrix.org> No I do

<p​reland:matrix.org> It’s still a weird cover story

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> btc people are only here for the money. least they care about is other coins and alts

<p​reland:matrix.org> Although I will say this:

<p​reland:matrix.org> There are too many people in the community who basically treat Monero like a mixer, and actively discourage using it as anything else.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If it's really dnm exit scam then he tried to make it pass on the chinese lol

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But it would be a way to do it, make people look away

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it was how deposits were structured

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> nothing to do with trying to be secret

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Anyway, good read. AFK for a while!

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> BawdyAnarchist: How would you set the PoW required? Regardless of the difficulty setting, I can imagine some mobile users being unhappy with it.

<p​reland:matrix.org> And as all people know, there is nothing more secret than dumping thousands of transactions in a short period of time, completely ruining your anonymity set

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Probably add a nonce space to each transaction, and set the transaction hash difficulty at a particular level. Just like with blocks

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> it doesn't matter in the long term

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> BawdyAnarchist: Yes, I mean how would you set the particular level?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Not for us

<p​reland:matrix.org> But for the person dumping, they are screwed lol

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> pharaoh had to get his xmr into one wallet and then churn

<p​reland:matrix.org> Hmm

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Fl0000000d

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> no way he dumps now

<p​reland:matrix.org> Why were they so spread out at the time?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Please stop deleting msgs. They dont delete

<p​reland:matrix.org> 400k is insane

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> I know about monerologs

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Just makes the chat look weird

I see all

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> is monero fukt?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> No, i mean, im on irc

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> irc also keeps these msgs

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> And this looks retarded

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> I'm not sure. Probably try to target some level that a 2-4 core CPU can solve in maybe 2-5 seconds.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Come here and it looks like a mod cleaned up

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> But its just you, making the chat impossible to follow

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Would definitely err on the side of "too easy," so we dont bork user experience

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> BawdyAnarchist: Oh, a fixed level? That would mean regular mandatory forks to adjust with hardware.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> 😁

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Bawdy, dont forget that usd doesnt matrer

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Arent these the same kinds of questions that were answered with RandomX?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> The moment we raise tx fees to "too high of a percentage of supply" we'll be attacked by mine$s

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Miners

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> (which yes, it looks like we still might need the occasional HF, but not very often)

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> moneros fee is about the same as btc

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> We cant shit on btc and pretend out fee is "low". Its not

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> We have less coins in circulation and a higher percentage of which goes to fees

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Not a higher percentage of usd

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> But if we use "usd", we might as well be zephyr

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> 1xmr = 1xmr

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Now 0.00004xmr = 1c. It = 0.00004xmr

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Not*

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Does that account for "all things being equal" (price, txn counts, and where dynamic blocks would be in such a scenario)?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Ob extreme ends, if you wanted to make monero bid like btc and made fees 20$, fees would be 0.15xmr

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> The problem is _adoption_

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> adoption is an easy problem to solve

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Not as hard as it sounds

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> xmr needs more avenues for gambling. this is where btc thrived most after it failed with darknet markets

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Btc is trash

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> bustabit a good example from the beginning and it still has 50m+ gambled per day

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> I dont really care what btc did to scam their maxis

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Btc will never reach mainstream adoption because its dead

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> you're over generalizing

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> "btc" did not create casinos

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> This spam attack and the fixes that come with it

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Delisting

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> casinos needed a solid option and btc presented itself. xmr is not being used, why?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> These are key to adoption

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> we need to solve this

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Cuz the beat casino is binance

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Best

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> And monero is used. Isnt there like xmrpoker.com or smthn

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Even used to be wownero poker tourneys

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> not a spam attack do your research

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> i wrote the research

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> btc gambling (casinos not cex bullshit) is at least 1 billion per day

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> So, please explain

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> I did already, go read the logs

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> xmr is nowhere near this amount and it's surprising considering the coin is private which is want gamblers would want

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> the deleted ones?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Were in the wrong room for your inaccurate assumpti(bs

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> lol

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Xmr has 3b market cap. You expect 1b in volume?

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> you didn't even read, not surprising

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> What sorta special calculator are you using?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Read what? the deleted logs? No, i definitely didnt

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> you're more fit for the btc community with your degenerate brain

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Why would i reas the assumptions of someone who doesnt understand what they are talking abt

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> uh muh 1 xmr = 1 xmr

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> reminds me of 1 btc = 1btc

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> reminds me of 1 btc = 1 btc

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> i wouldn't know, never been a maxi

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> 1usd = 1usd too

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Are you drunk?

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> I know I've seen your twitter

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> worse than a maxi

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Maybe youre kore concerned with if 1 usd = 1 yen

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Do you follow me tho?

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Ah i see. Fl000d wants us back on binanxe

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Cuz fl000d is a fiat maxi

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> jfc guys

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Isn't it better to flame in the comments section of another social media?

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yeah, we have Monero Beef for a reason

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Like, Reddit, Twitter, I say go for it. But this is a linear convo amongst a group of people.

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> I got banned from there

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> ofrnxmr if you want to argue further u can do it via dm

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> Happily

<o​frnxmr:agoradesk.com> @ofrnxmr:monero.social

<p​reland:matrix.org> (In order to future-proof myself from future maxi accusations, my long-term price expectation for xmr is 100k current usd, plus or minus 15%)

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> in the future this chat will be used as evidence

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> I sent a request

<b​az:monero.social> Hey prae666

<b​az:monero.social> Wb

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> much like bitcointalk and the early adopters. don't say too much

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> who

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org why did you leave xmrtrader?

<b​awdyanarchist:matrix.org> Combination of reasons. Doing 30mins every Saturday morning on my market ideas, so it's a bit of double work to type everything out in Reddit. Plus I'm on Twitter now, where there's alot more reach (altho I typically dont go too deep on market stuff there). It didnt help that a certain someone stuck their mod nose back in after being AWOL for like 9 months, thinking that we need his "moderation."

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> why aren't the blocks adjusting like this?

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> github.com/spackle-xmr/Dynamic_Bloc…/blob/main/Media/10x_ramp_2days.gif

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Because txs are not paying higher fees

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> There is only a flood of minimum fee transactions.

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> why isn't there an auto fee adjuster?

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> like btc

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I don't know what btc does, but a few points for you...

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Monero does have an auto fee adjuster, though there was a bug and it was not increasing user fees as expected. Changes have been made, and it will be different in the future

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> this is for the wallet from what I read

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> yes

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> if btc is different I don't know anything about that.

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> right even if the wallet had auto fee this attack is still possible

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> yes absolutely

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> to copy some earlier messages:

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> My thinking is that even if 100% of the pre-flood tx volume (~100kB per block) is paying higher fees, that volume is not enough to consistantly fill 300+ kB blocks. By the time miners build a 300 kB block, there would rarely be any high fee txs left to push against the penalty median.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I think only the flood txs are responsible for moving the penalty median.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> It doesn't matter how much a steady 100 kB pays in fees if there are never any high fee txs available when it is time to weigh fees against the penalty.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> The miners run out of high fees before they get to the penalty median, and are left with the same choice: Do I include another minimum fee transaction, and pay this penalty?

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Point being that even if the auto fee function in Monero wallets was working, I do not expect the outcome to be very different from what we have seen.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I have stated my reasoning, and would welcome correction if someone can tell me why my thinking is wrong.

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> btc has constant block sizes (around 3k tx) per block but you can increase it with RBF if you want increased priority. I think it's very similar to xmr in that the wallets decide functionality for fees

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> btc has constant block sizes (around 3k tx) per block but you can increase the a transaction takes with RBF if you want increased priority. I think it's very similar to xmr in that the wallets decide functionality for fees

<f​l0000000000000d:matrix.org> btc has constant block sizes (around 3k tx) per block but you can increase the speed a transaction takes with RBF if you want increased priority. I think it's very similar to xmr in that the wallets decide functionality for fees

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Monero.town

<4​chanbro:matrix.org> hello

Hello

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> ola

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/kpYaprCRMbFQlkMavtjNXZyX

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> so thats it?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> Was that all?

no, it looks more like a short hiccup

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> spackle_xmr: we found another project that implements dynamic blocks wrongly thingspeak.com/channels/321751 Lafudoci/XMR-ETA #3

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> It seems there's general misunderstanding of dynamic block sizes. Ive seen people asking about why dynamic block sizes don't working.

Monero is officially dead. My price widget deleted XMR/fiat pairs

jeffro256 full-time development 2024Q2 is now fully funded! ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/jeffro256-full-time-2024Q2.html @luigi1111

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Yeah, I don't think the scaling algorithm is understood well at large.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> opendigital: You can get your list of reliable node here : github.com/feather-wallet/feather/blob/master/src/assets/nodes.json

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You can see many node, take the one from "Mainnet", you have TOR, i2p and clearnet.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> From the feather wallet list.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> localnet address where joke assuming you did have basic networking knowledge

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> by local, I mean everything that start with:

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 192.168.0.0/24

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 172.16.0.0/16

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 10.0.0.0/8

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> opendigital: You can get your list of reliable node here : github.com/feather-wallet/feather/blob/master/src/assets/nodes.json

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You can see many node, take the one from "Mainnet", you have TOR, i2p and clearnet.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> From the feather wallet list.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> localnet address where joke assuming you did have basic networking knowledge

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> by local, I mean everything that start with:

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 192.168.0.0/16

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 172.16.0.0/12

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 10.0.0.0/8