<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> we need a emergency fork to increase fees

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Lol

nono

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Chill out

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> subcents for privacy tx ? lol

60k/xmr @ 0.00003xmr fee is over a dollar

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> BTC mempool tx count: 5.92 times larger than XMR

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> BTC mempool size (data): 8.00 times larger than XMR

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Bitcoin is bloating harder than Monero with it's oh-so-massive private transactions.

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> when its 60k come back and ask to lower fees

No

I dont value my monero in $

I value it in monero

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> sorry too many monero in market to allow spam forever

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> we need to get the Monerotopia tickets changed to XMR

and monero is 1:1 better than btc. So, at this rate, btc went from 1k>60k. We can too

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> monerotopia.com

Well pnd

I have solutiona that dont involve rolling back changes when usd value says so

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> dude we cant even go above 150 lol

Says who?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> btc was taken in by banks

I havent sold under 180 in over a year

I dont sell my xmr to binance lol

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> you not selling, doesnt mean i cant buy it below 150 rn

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That attack just prove that Bitcoiners are scared af of Monero..

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Meaning, they know...

Or at whatever cmc says kucucks and coinexgf says

You can buy under 150?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> ah again, its a attack on privacy and monero in general

0.00003 xmr fee for 1in/2out is not a low fee in xmr terms

Someone else just msg me and said they tried, and cant wd

need to pump price :)

Niocat gets it

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> obviously look around

yes its an attack on privacy

But yknow what, 🤷‍♂️

.seen chicken little

Were just gonna fix some problems and laugh while doing it

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> how many txs can you do with 1000xmr , which you can buy right now without moving price much

Watch these ppl waste their $ and donate the xmr back to miners

liez

You cant buy 1000 xmr without moving the price

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> oh wait for a few news articles and price drops and they will buy more and keep repeating

Go show me what exchange has that liquidity ACTUALLY AVAILABLE TO WITHDRAW

None

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> kraken tradeogre kucoin

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> mexc

Mexc = kucoin = binance

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> let them cook

<system> file 1709838573899536.jpg too big to download (2290260 > allowed size: 1000000)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> 1709838573899536.jpg

tradeogre has KAS for sale that isnt even on the right chain

Kraken? Joking right?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> you can withdraw from kucoin, i dont use it though

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Why I always think about Malwarebytes when I see theses?!?

last time i looked at depth, it was nowhere near low slippage

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> whats the joke ? i have not had a single withdrawal issue with them

I used to use kucoin pre kyc, and respected them until o saw 9m xmr for loan

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> you dont need to market buy

How can i margin borrow 9m xmr? Oh yeah, cuz its fake

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Mexc honored all my withdraws issue so far

Kucoin never gave me any issues

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> So it's far better than Binance lol

yeah, both are. Bcuz they get away with the stuff binance cant

But look at particl on mexc and look at the volume

does anyone know what happened to cointelegraph.com/news/huobi-to-del…y-coins-citing-regulatory-pressures

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> Okay back to the topic, with 1000xmr you can do 33 million txs

because htx ( = huobi ?) delisted monero again in 2024

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> do we have enemies who cant shell out 1000xmr ?

Oi

Pnd, go to #monero

Were offtopic

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ahhhhhhhhhhhh

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we grew by 0.33 gb in the last 24 hours

Omg

Lemme call mt btc friends

We need smaller blocks

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> a shattering 118.8 GB per year oh no

Im gonna die

When om 77, ill have to buy 2tb

This is not feasible

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> check back after a week

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> thats like almost 15€ in SSD cost!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/puPPXrOFGRiEZuYGBtaPxUTu

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> how can we cope

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> oh yes, and users waiting for tx to confirm forever bcoz 10 block wait is so normal

My phone has like 10gb free

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Hmmm, Signal is down

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's like everyone ddosing everyone or what lol

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> anyone here even uses monero lol

sounds like btc is for you

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yes i did

Its pruned, im ok for a few a while

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> literally today

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Of course lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> at peak mempool

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> for 1.6 cents i got into the very next block

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> terribly unusable

absolutely terrible

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> yes and your wallet didnt select that fee by default lol

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, lol, compare that to bitcorn lol Next block is... what..?!? only 1.31$ lol, smell fishy

Pnd - it was supposed to. its a bug

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> which is fixed in the next release

Might be fixed real soon

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Hmmm, Signal is down <<>> hope not in an hour cause cat2 has her nightly video call

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> The scaling algorithm is just getting started. On the positive side I hope this is a learning opportunity. Everyone has been spoiled by low volume and zero congestion. First lesson might be "Pay minimum fees, expect minimum service."

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> ya, lets see how soon its fixed in all wallets and if attacker adopts to it lol

Pnd.. hacker PLANNED for it

Fixing it makes attack a lot easier

Attacker*

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> which is funny

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> now they just sit there

whoever irs hired, i hope they get -625k for wasting their time

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> kek

Tell irs to donate to ccs and maybe we'll show them how its done, the day before releasing the fix

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> i see, what about effective ring size ?

Already bad

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> so any fix for it ?

ring size used to be 7

yea

Ring size is probably 4 rn

use wownero, ring size is 22

It was about 13

Wowneros ring size is like 2 rn

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> what if the attack keeps doubling for days ? do we reach 2 ringsize with current dsa

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> buy wownero now since cake is adding it

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> price might go up

what if __________

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> not financial advice

no, we reach full txpool in 3 days

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> yah plan for it lol

Aka you must use higher fees

And at that point, the attack becomes costless

As we pay for blockspace, and they just squat the txpool, forcing us to pay

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> it is costless

<a​ndrewjackson:matrix.org> Maybe it's a Bitcoiner churning his Monero for "privacy" 🤪

its not costless, as you burn tx fees

The number of outputs tells me its someone who created these prior

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> effective fee is zero in terms of fiat

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ofrn in that case

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/eqfBodypfmIjADQOqDzwpdDm

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> dont use the chain till pool is cleared :P

monero has had daily oscillating tx count (abnormal. Only happens on xmr) for years, + 1/16 spam "attack" years ago

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> so dont use monero in short lol

Mine minero and let em burn their spam

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> free money from transaction fees

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> if you cant use monero, the utility value drops to ground

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Monero still very usable.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I assume some wallet need some fixin for there auto fees shenanigans

yeah they just need to keep this up forever

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's good stress testing.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> xmrchain need some fixing 😂

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> they have done it on btc, they cant do it on cheap xmr ?

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> monkey jpegs

once we start using the very expensive fee of 2 cents for a tx the blocksize will increase faster and clear the backlog

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> 😮 2 cents

vs 0.5 now

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> yes, just need to do PSA and fix wallets

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/LEPYNuUtPjxIlMMvRQvPdFZa

PSA was done

l8r off to see cat3

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Current volume is not that far ahead of the block size. Perhaps volume will continue increasing with the scaling, we shall see.

*cat2

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> 319KB block size so far

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> we still fine compared to competition

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/EKQGWtKPHAtkEItZNMVumJLe

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> lets say backlog gets cleared, we keep paying more fees; but about effective ringsize ? if attack keeps scaling up

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That probably depend if the attacker log and release hit TX data

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> they can just sell it to chain analysis companies or chain analysis companies might themselves be involved

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> in that case, effective ring size go down to something like 7

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> they can just sell it to chain analysis companies or chain analysis companies themselves might be involved

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> they can just sell it to chain analysis companies or chain analysis companies themselves might be involved

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> except if they manager to keep it up for months, but I'm sure our good devs can workout something in the mean time

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> nope its much lower right now

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> current dsa selects too many recent outputs

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Doesnt it just use like half of the decoys from the last 72 hrs?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> i found 13 decoys from last 24hrs in my tx

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> While we are considering hypotheticals; what if the attention brings a bunch of new users to Monero? What if the mining rewards excite people? Lots of people have Monero rigs built and ready to go, after all.

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> well it's not more profitable than ZEPH

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> or my miner would've auto switched

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> so I don't think it will really matter

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> how much is the mining reward ? botnets can only be attracted at this point

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> 🤷

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> how much is the mining reward ? only botnets can be attracted at this point

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> I'm making 0.0009 XMR a day mining ZEPH

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> with 4.4 KH/s

Green

Moneroocean doesnt account for tx fees

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> 0

It calculates based on the standard block reward

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> they don't charge a fee if you wait to get your payout

Green - mining zeph on MO is fine. It help transfer dumb monero into monero

And help increase monero mining profitability

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> yeah

And also buys xmr off of cex, so it keeps buy pressure on the orderbooks

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> and it's free heating

thank the lord for zeph. Sacrificing its credibility and its users funds, to help stablize a price floor for xmr

All the while helping to make xmr more profitable to mine for existing miners

Mining zeph, is really = "buying xmr"

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> yeah

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> buying XMR with my electricity bill

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> KYC free

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> and buying heating at the same time

Yup

Annnnnnd... dumping zeph on noobs. 😆

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> What does ZEPH even do?

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> It it supposed to be a privacy coin?

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> I assume it uses RandomX or I wouldn't be able to mine it

Its randomx, its haven but without the inflation bug

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> I see

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> The ZEPH people probably won't be too happy that it's being used as a Monero dump coin

Its gimmick is a stablecoin

They blocked me after getting mad in my dms

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> Yeah they're using USDT to inflate the price or something

<p​reland:matrix.org> Stable against what?

Usd

<p​reland:matrix.org> Ok

Not stable against any real object

<p​reland:matrix.org> Tbh stable coins are a mirage

Usd as a foundation is like making babies in a mans belly

Its a joke

<p​reland:matrix.org> If you treat them as anything else things get weird

<p​reland:matrix.org> “Did you know Monero is the first Monero stablecoin???”

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol yeah

<p​reland:matrix.org> Ngl can’t wait to see the meltdown when tether dies

I WAS going to say "building a house on water", but that may be realistic

Preland < tell that to monerokon

They love evm and fiat

<p​reland:matrix.org> Using USD makes sense for a stablecoin

<p​reland:matrix.org> That is, if you don’t care about cryptocurrency or decentralization or privacy or freedom or-

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lll

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol*

llololll right

You just want a digital cbdc

Gotcha

<p​reland:matrix.org> Which will happen

<p​reland:matrix.org> After which point all current usd stablecoin get outlawed (rightfully so tbh)

So, lets keep the treasury controlling the value of our entire life

fiat maxis

The worst type of maxis in crypto

Worse than wownero ones

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yeah, and let’s hyperfocus on the price of Monero vs usd

<p​reland:matrix.org> Cuz that’s what people with healthy currencies like the ruble and the Venezuelan dollar do

Chiba just maintains an artificial peg

1xmr = 1.05 btc

Lets use that rate

<p​reland:matrix.org> I mean, it worked for Terra….

<p​reland:matrix.org> It literally can’t go tits up

"usd is stable", but china has a fake peg tho?

Wow. Sorry irc. Cant see chat name. preland, please cont on #monero

In

<p​reland:matrix.org> To be fair, at least you are legally allowed to publicly criticize the Fed reserve in the US

<p​reland:matrix.org> Yeah sounds good

<p​rancing389:matrix.org> I like what Monero stands for: 1) Private, 2) Anonymous (notice one and two aren't combined, because they are different), 3) Store of Value, 4) Divisible, 5) Resistant to outside controls (e.g. Govt can't use Patriot Act to hold up my wire transfer). If another crypto does a much better job of those things, I have no loyalty to Monero, I am mentally free to switch once the new <clipped message>

<p​rancing389:matrix.org> crypto is adequately tested, provided it has all the same characteristics.

<p​rancing389:matrix.org> I hold Monero for a very similar reason that I hold precious metals, to prevent banks from hyper-inflating away my purchasing power.

<p​rancing389:matrix.org> One has more utility in person, the other online.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> vice.com/en/article/wxq9xx/the-irs-…ivacy-focused-cryptocurrency-monero

<p​rancing389:matrix.org> That article is four years old, and Monero is still going strong, their bounty has failed!

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> 🎉

<a​ndrewjackson:matrix.org> "Vice" owned an associated with Great names like Blackrock, Soros Fund Management and Government of Abu Dhabi

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> they suck

Rich entities owning all the things? Omg

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> they should by xmr instead

jeffro256 full-time development 2024Q2 has moved to funding! ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/jeffro256-full-time-2024Q2.html

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> You can find it in my twat from yesterday.

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> investopedia.com/tech/introduction-monero-xmr

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> MONERO - TICKER (XME). Is this is a sidechain?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There is no sidechain

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Assume anything named Monero but with a different Ticker or running on other scamchain like ETH, to be scams

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There is no sidechain

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Assume anything named Monero but with a different Ticker than XMR and/or running on other scamchain like ETH, to be scams

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Does anyone know a person at investopedia that can correct the record

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Maybe: invcontent.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Remember to bring your KYC info to their platform 🤣

ArticMine

Was i sleeping on the job again monerobull ofrnxmr

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> I have to say reading this chat often times is really good comedy xD Thanks guys! Also for the nice tech called monero, but mainly the comedy.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> > Is Monero a Good Investment?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> >

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> > If you're interested in cryptocurrencies, Monero may be a good investment. The price of the currency jumped more than 64% between Aug. 26, 2020, and Aug. 26, 2023.3

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> >

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> > CoinMarketCap. "Monero."

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> > Additionally, it doesn't cost much to start, as you don't need any special hardware. You can actually use the CPU of your own computer to mine it, and Monero works with all major operating systems. This will save you a lot of money in fees and charges.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> amazing

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> Just curious - is there any privacy/security risk if somebody owns this many transaction on the chain, considering current mempool state?

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> It shrinks the effective ring size, so the chance of tracking outputs grows. It depends on your threat level how much this affects you I guess.

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Note: in order to have a large impact, they would need to own *a lot* of outputs

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Rucknium over in the Monero Research Lab came up with a first rough estimate that we may be down to an effective ringsize of 7, if I understood correctly. That would be quite a drop down from 16, but not catastrophic, or at least not yet.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Better then none

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Blocksize adjusted to 320 KB now

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Where is that aws bot farm when you need it

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Sure, thanks for letting me know

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I've sent the edit, should be published within the next 6 hours or so

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Thanks for letting me know

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> why miners picking more than median? its not profitable to take penalty

it's profitable if the transaction fee is higher than the penalty

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> at this moment its better to drop low fee transactions instead taking the penalty.

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> it should only profitable if **all** transaction fees are over 20 piconero/byte (0.000002 xmr/byte)

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> to make profit by taking penalty **all** transactions need to have over 2000 picomonero/byte

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> to make profit by taking penalty **all** transactions need to have over 2000 nanomonero/byte

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> Current median blocksize: 328544 byte

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> 0.6 XMR / 328544 byte = 0.000001826 XMR/byte = 1826 nanomonero/byte

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> but almost none of the transactions are paid over 1826 nanomonero/byte

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> s​ech1

low fee transactions will be dropped when mempool is full

full depends on a node. Default max size is 648 MB, but it can be reduced via command line

penalty formula is different. Penalty is very little for blocks just above the limit

Usualy it's enough to add 1 transaction over the limit, even if it has the lowest fee

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> as far as i understand, penalty formula isn't linear, right?

yes, it's quadratic

starts from 0 at 300000 bytes, and reaches full block reward at 600000 bytes

if blocks get bigger, these numbers adjust too

Could someone using a raspberry pi mine a block with the entire mempool in it then create retroactive funding ccs for the missing blockreward?

no, block size is hard capped at 2x median size

so 321*2 kB right now

thanks!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> only the block reward?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> they should get paid more for their heroic self-sacrifice

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Had anyone attempted to calculate how much the attack is costing per unit time and therefore how long the attacker can keep it up depending on financing.

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Had anyone attempted to calculate how much the attack is costing per unit time and therefore how long the attacker can keep it up depending on financing?

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Id assume it's going to be a non linear relationship as the block size increases.

<n​o_2:matrix.org> I'd assume it's going to be a non linear relationship as the block size increases.

4.7 XMR/day now

it will get bigger as blocks grow

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Thanks.

<n​o_2:matrix.org> And how quickly can blocks double? The median adjusts per 11 blocks is that right?

<n​o_2:matrix.org> *median block size

Blocks can double every 50 blocks (100 minutes), if you're generous with tx fees

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the attack isnt actualyl pushing blocks to be larger

but this spammer uses low fees, so it's only +1.5 kB every 50 blocks

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the attack isnt actually pushing blocks to be larger

basically this attack is designed to make blocks grow as slowly as possible

probably to save the money

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Ah, so they are flooding memory pools? Transactions priced above the attackers sats/byte will still get through then?

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Ah, so they are flooding memory pools? Transactions priced above the attackers sats/byte will still get moned then?

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Ah, so they are flooding memory pools? Transactions priced above the attackers sats/byte will still get mined then?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Sech1 will be doing a reddit ask me anything about mempool spam at this rate ;)

yes

priority 2 transactions get mined in the first block

what they're essentially doing now is bloating the chain at the minimal possible cost per GB

<n​o_2:matrix.org> What do you mean by "priority 2"?

1 = low (unimportant), 2 = normal, 3 = high and so on

it's priorities in CLI wallet

it defaults to 1 now, which is not good

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Is it a flag in the TX? Do you pay more for an increase in level?

it's a parameter in the transfer command

yes, priority 2 is 4x bigger fee

<n​o_2:matrix.org> Ah, right, so TX propagation on the network has slowed down?

<n​o_2:matrix.org> The last time I sent any of my Monero was a long time ago via the terminal, so a bit rusty on the details...

it didn't slow down, there's just a big backlog of low fee transactions

so if you send a low fee tx, it can wait for hours until it gets mined

<c​hch3003:monero.social> It's a feature not a bug, no ?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I dont see the problem of having a backlog of low fees txs

it's a feature, this is how it works

if you tx has low fee and there is a lot of tx with high fee, you'll need to wait

*your tx

also all new tx w/ high fees get priority over your old low fee tx :)

yes, but high fee txs don't even fill blocks now

priority 2 tx get confirmed in the first block

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> My pruned node is getting too larger. How long until prune++

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> `rm -rf ~/.bitmonero/lmdb`

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> There, pruned to the max

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> snowman: how big is it

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Did you begin with a pruned node or did you download the full block chain at some point and then prune it later?

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Began with it

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Because from what I understand, if you download the full block chain and then prune it later, you keep the same size, but it does not grow until the prune to node gets bigger than what the full node used to be.

my prune is already: 68G data/lmdb

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Oh, that's not too bad. My full mode is around 200 gigs, I think.

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Is someone trying to prove that xmr can handle bitcoin level of tx #

you can prune again "faster than downloading" into a pruned copy, then replace current full-node

you must have enough disk space for that though

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> It has already been proven snowman

no need to begin w/ pruned node

you can prune current full node into a pruned copy, is what I'm trying to say :P

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Is there any way to find out who is pushing all these tx? Can a node by identifies

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Once the blocksize catches up, the main bottleneck of the transaction rate is network bandwidth between nodes

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Be identifies

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I just checked and my full mode is 180 gigabytes.

snowman that wouldn't be very private

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Doesn’t mean you can’t try using network info

but I mean.,... with them pushing this many transactions.... possibly

would take a good bit of research to have a shot tho

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Wouldn't dandelion++#590 that?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> With Dandelion++ doing its thing, you'd basically have to sybil attack nodes to find the source

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Maybe they’re not propagating them correctly

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> And you don't even know whether it's one source or many

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Wouldn't dandelion++ stop that?

d++ would make it harder but not necessarily impossible especially with this much volume, depends how they are sending the TXs too

<p​reland:matrix.org> I would still like to point out that the cost of doing such an attack is….minuscule

<p​reland:matrix.org> We are talking at this point around 8-10 xmr in transaction fees. This pricing isn’t maintainable long-term, especially as the block size increases.

<p​reland:matrix.org> I think the attacker knows this. Which leaves the question:

<p​reland:matrix.org> Why now? What was/is going on during the last few days that would incentivize someone to slow down transactions using low fees?

bitcoin DNM trying to DDOS the XMR only DNMs by DDOS against XMR

if u want a crazy farfetched guess

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> its a conspiracy to sabotage my snus order

<p​reland:matrix.org> Lol

<r​ucknium:monero.social> IMHO, yes you could probably identify the IP address if the spammer is using one or a few

big dnm market recently went down apaprently, otehrs must be fighting for custoemrs =P

<p​reland:matrix.org> It’s just weird

<p​reland:matrix.org> There were a lot of things globally that could’ve been the cause. There is ofc the ongoing fallout from the Binance

<p​reland:matrix.org> Crap I sent too quickly lol

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> I blame China

<p​reland:matrix.org> There is the fallout from Binance for one. There is technically the US primaries. There is also the fact that that one hacking group allegedly just “exit scammed”

<p​reland:matrix.org> I don’t know what the motive would be.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I reviewed a paper that showed if a user sends enough txs, Dandelion++ still can't prevent identification. Basically D++ is statistical obfuscation. If your signal is much, much larger than the noise, you can be identified. AFAIK the only known way for network privacy is statistical obfuscation.

<p​reland:matrix.org> Hmm

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Sharma, P. K., Gosain, D., & Diaz, C. 2022. "On the anonymity of peer-to-peer network anonymity schemes used by cryptocurrencies." moneroresearch.info/index.php?actio…n=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=130

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It would be an interesting exercise to find the IP of the spammer, but there may be higher priority things now.

<p​reland:matrix.org> What if someone created their own obfuscation

<p​reland:matrix.org> A “genesis” wallet sends XMR to several hundred/thousand addresses. Each address then repeatedly sends half of the amount of the outputs in their wallets to another address, and rinse and repeat

<p​reland:matrix.org> I’d be shocked if the IP could be traced

<p​reland:matrix.org> Even if it was, it would probably be either a VPN or a darknet node

<r​ucknium:monero.social> One of the hypotheses for the 2021 spam incident was a churn-for-privacy script gone out of control. Possible.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Why would you be shocked? Have you read the papers?

<p​reland:matrix.org> I’d believe that, if such a script was known to exist at the time

<p​reland:matrix.org> Not as in the IP being traced

<p​reland:matrix.org> Just that the IP would be useful at all

<p​reland:matrix.org> Ofc a single IP flooding the whole network is gonna be visible

<p​reland:matrix.org> Monero isn’t magic after all

"One of the hypotheses for the 2021 spam incident was a churn-for-privacy script gone out of control. Possible." < lol

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> like a run away train.... turned my back to make a coffee and chugachugachugaChooChurn!!!

#itwasntme

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i thought some university people cam forward

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and said they spammed it for 10k

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i thought some university people came forward

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Did you hear that from ChatGPT :P

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> is this the ccs proposal where they wanted 5xmr to host a party / use for tx fees/experimentation?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> sister universities / crypto club

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> from the multi modal model running on my brain

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> in peers dropped from around 150 ish to 25~ just now if that is a thing

hmm

On all 3?

i've had in peers drop on my public nodes

but on my non-public nodes it's all good, 150 still

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I am running a public node, and it is steady at 190(in).

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Damn, wish I could run my network scanner right now :(

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Is it available for someone else to run?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> what does marking a node as "trusted" actually do?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i know in gui you have a small shied next to it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but anything else?

it allows for some operations (like rescanning) that would could harm your privacy

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ok, thanks

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> The old version is here: github.com/endorxmr/monero-node-p2p-scanner

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> But it's kinda buggy and much slower

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> But if you keep the scans small enough (ie the default limit of 100 peers at a time) you should be able to run it reasonably well

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Just put the whole thing in a loop or something and keep going

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> "Fund my next boating accident" 😂

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> For reference: in my old scans I picked up ~10k "normal" nodes, plus ~30-40k "fake" nodes, some of which had ips in ranges that belonged to the LionLink AS

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> so are we able to know which ips are flooding ?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> No

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> due to dandelion++ ?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Oops, correction: most of the ip ranges of the fake nodes belonged to LL, but a couple of them belonged to some other AS

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> cant nodes see if abnormal amount of txs are being sent from a ip/range even in dandelion phase ?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> IMHO, if its a single node or just a few nodes producing the txs, even D++ would not prevent identification.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> They had a proof-of-concept for that: Sharma, P. K., Gosain, D., & Diaz, C. 2022. "On the anonymity of peer-to-peer network anonymity schemes used by cryptocurrencies." moneroresearch.info/index.php?actio…n=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=130

<r​ucknium:monero.social> But just running endor's scanner doesn't help figure out where the txs are coming from. You need multiple of your own nodes with timing data for when the txs arrived.

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Right

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Well, for one thing I'd be curious to know where all these peers are coming from

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> yup someone needs to make this and we will be able to identify if its a single or couple of entities flooding

Linkinglion ?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Because many of LL's nodes would advertise an rpc port for example, but would not respond when queried

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes

Forked networking, one of our sponsors, owns the ips

And sells them very very very cheap

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> So I wonder if they have suddenly woken up

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I have a mempool archiver running on a few nodes, but the polling rate has slowed down to +5 seconds from all the txs. It is too slow for this type of analysis probably.

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Would be interesting to compare with some lists of inboud peers (host:p2p_port) from some currently active nodes

<r​ucknium:monero.social> If I could get ZMQ to work with my script, then I would have sub-second polling rate. But when I tried I couldn't

sech1

if you need something quick, you can just run p2pool with log level 5 and then parse the logs

it will print all tx ids

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I am using the `get_transaction_pool` RPC call. Parsing the JSON takes the most time I think.

this RPC will be very slow, it will send you the whole pool each time

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Yeah I did that so I never miss anything because of caching or something. Worked well under normal network conditions

<r​ucknium:monero.social> sech1: " it will print all tx ids" Does it print tx txids with the timestamp of when they arrived to the node?

yes, p2pool prints timestamps for all log lines

ZMQ sends tx to p2pool when it enters the fluff phase

not when it arrives

so maybe not exactly what you need

IIRC you can also "set_log 1" in monerod and it will print new tx ids in bitmonero.log, but this log will be massive

<selsta> all users that use a public node together with a version before v0.18.3.1 are causing unnecessary load on remote nodes, so please upgrade

(meaning all wallet users)

<g​reen_sheep:matrix.org> Waiting for Cake to push an update

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> The mempool (xmrchain.net/txpool) shows a handful of transactions which are remarkably older than the rest.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I do not understand why miners would continually pass over them, the fee per byte is always the same. I can see certain txs waiting longer if the block size was mismatched after adding a bunch of other txs to it, but during block expansion that explanation doesn't work. At least I would not think that would happen for 12 hours straight. Miners are confirming transactions that are <clipped message>

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> almost, but not quite, the oldest.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Can anyone offer me some insight?

Sure

Dm

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> All of the especially old transactions are unique input counts, though I do not know why that should matter.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Probably slightly below other txs in fee per byte. The unique in/out could could cause that

I have seen txs ignored in the past, I guess misconfigured txs

one of them is slightly higher fee per byte at 23 instead of the usual 20

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Oh yeah, when I look at each transaction there is a fee per byte difference. Very small.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> ah, nioCat beat me to it. Not the case for all of them.

is the selection that sensitive?

Ive had high fee tx get stuck. My2c

<r​ucknium:monero.social> when monerod creates a block template for miners, it orders the txs first by fee/byte, second sort is by oldest tx received.

yes

<r​ucknium:monero.social> P2Pool does random sort for the second criteria. So P2Pool could confirm a new tx earlier than an old one.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Nice to know, I was wondering just that (if it was fifo when same fees)

P2Pool just uses slightly different soring criteria

first fee/byte, then smaller transactions, then it just sord by id to ensure a single unique order

*sorts

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> xmrchain.net/tx/32cbd8640fddcf7e9d4…4521f065d90f27a7c72984ef2c6d690d5ff

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Fee (per_kB): 0.000099060000 (0.000022526636)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> By the way, this sorting is statistically detectable with the mempool data and ordinary least squares regression :D

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> That tx is higher per byte than the ones being confirmed.

of course, but p2pool blocks are detectable right away :D

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The R-squared on the regression is about 0.25 IIRC

monero-project/monero #9222 will change p2pool sorting a bit. It will start to pick up earliest transaction too, at least for a part of mempool

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I mean that the time the tx appeared in the mempool is statistically correlated with its order in each block

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Each confirmed block

order in block? But p2pool shuffles transactions

it sorts, then selects transactions to be mined, then shuffles them

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I mean the blocks that the mining pools create

ah, time from mempool to the block. Right

Then p2pool will be different from pools that use monerod

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But why?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/iqfXOqWOSVcUGNhdjaLpinwC

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> primal.net/e/note1p8xmq3zr7lgryal45…g9q4gyzq0hz37j7ac4sjecpg28qxspxq6m0

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Wow I hope someone repays him by stress testing his public nostr infrastructure

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> He’s spent a lot of money helping xmr security

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> indeed

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> is fiatjaf the owner of Primal ?

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> No

he created nostr

and i highly doubt he spends his days spamming tx

so best to just ignore him and don't take the bait lol

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> I think he's trying to take credit for a pre-existing issue

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> ok, so it could be a good idea to wait for a real confirmation then

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That's a possibility

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> i'm so disappointed. I was excited about nostr, but if its owner is a dickhead then the project can only go down

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Do they have a client that actually work (By client I mean something compiled that run on a CPU, not a web page)

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Nostr is more than fiatjaf. Simplified Privacy has been making progress with pro-XMR content on there. And we also rolled out Linked-Out.me yesterday with Nostr integration for a monero market

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> I'd say only 60% of the people are bitcoin maxis, its not as bleak as it appears at first glance

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> That's cool then. Hopefully we might reverse the trends and monero maxis will come on this platform. It'll be war zone

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Nostr and bitcoin are not related. So nothing stops a monero client from being made

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i wouldn't be surprised if maxis create mastodon like blocklist

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> The core protocol is just text messages over relays, signed as proof, like Ethereum or PGP

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i wouldn't be surprised if maxis create mastodon like blocklist against XMR community

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> The images and videos are just regular websites

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> The payments are custodial, its like a bank account

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> since lightning can't do non-sync natively, they use getalby

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> lmao that's exactly like is happening on every federated network: matrix, mastodon, diaspora and bluesky are prime examples

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Yes, primal is web, ios app, and android app. There are also several clients on fdroid

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> whats the license ?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I use my phone mostly for 2fa, I mean, a computer app that actually work without using a browser

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I hate typing on a phone lol

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Oh, I don't know of any desktop clients.

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Gossip

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That doesn't mean none exist. I just don't know of them because I rarely use desktop.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Broken, next

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Gossip is the most secure and works on Linux

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> broken?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Last time I tried I could not even get in lol, don't exactly what was the problem, was a few months ago

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I tried a few other, they all sucks

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> differently

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I am on nostr, but you need to have a thick skin bc some ppl are dicks

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's Like Matrix if element did not exist

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Oh cause myself and other members of the team use gossip as a daily driver on Linux

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/OnrHcxHjbVvKzlhuPlKKmuPV

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Mind you, that was only one person, but I would not be surprised if that attitude is more prevalent than it would appear.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> imajin paying un sat for each zap.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> (the fee to pay each time lol)

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> I think boycotting nostr is the wrong idea. Instead, we should enjoy censorship resistance for our own thing

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> We need to fork primal, support xmr, then tell everyone on r/monero to switch to our fork

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Then what he mouths off about the pre-existing XMR bug is not relevant

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> if they want war, we'll give them war

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> primal is centralized, that's my problem with web page

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> nostr is decentralized but if you ddos the webpage that connect to the thing then..... it's down

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> primal isn't the one you'd fork, its aggregating the data

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> If you're gonna fork, you'd do ameythst

<s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> idk kotlin unfortunately 😭

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Amathyst is pretty bad for accessibility

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> there's also a XMR one half done with cake wallet

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> the guy abandoned it I think, the dev stopped posting. but he had a deal with cake

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> What I would really like to see is a Reddit style interface client because I do better with that than the Twitter/mastodon on style.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> What I would really like to see is a Reddit style interface client because I do better with that than the Twitter/mastodon style.

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Agree. The Monero way is to make the protocol better as a result of the current attack and move on

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Free security testing before mass adoption is good.

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> That's what Linked-out.me is

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> It's a reddit style interface

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Nostr signing built in. Then its hooked to Session bots which bill in Monero

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> So the influencers can push notification out the content links, and it has bunny CDN video embedded. So youtube is replaced as well

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I agree selsta, & snowman, our community is resilient, and strong.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Our ability to adapt, and grow is what makes monero one of the best protocols.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> By attacking others we only prove them right but by building we make them look stupid.

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> Is this described correctly? "There is currently a fee bug on Monero related to the fee automatically being set too low"

there is currently a bug that the wallet doesn't automatically bump the fee when there is a backlog

at least when the wallet fee is set to default / automatic

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> gotcha okay thanks for clarifying. How come then there's slow sync to nodeswith first opening a wallet ? they are swamped?

large txpool causes a lot of load of public nodes

*load on

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> ok

<o​pendigital:hackliberty.org> So using self-hosted nodes is a temporary solution?

self-hosted node is preferred, otherwise you have to be patient with slow public nodes

or try to find one that isn't used much

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> I found one that seems pretty fast at 127.0.0.1:18081

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Please don’t share that on Reddit

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Best node ever!

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can I use it?

I like my node on a dedicated machine away from my wallets but that's just me =p

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Someone on a different chat shared it with me. I have know idea who’s it is

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Seems fast

Thanks! I tried that node and ita working great

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> rehrar: do you limit p2p on your public nodes ?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/TGBWIDLTLypbsbIxclUIhRnW

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ffs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> bitcart node died and apparently cant be changed to a custom one...

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> i would ping ofrn

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> i think it uses sithlords node

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you can apparently change it from the terminal

<p​reland:matrix.org> Has anyone calculated approximately how long it should take for the block size to fully keep up with the current transaction volume?

<p​reland:matrix.org> What might be more pertinent, as I’ve noticed the block size changes are quite slow: how long will it take for the block size to fall back to normal levels after the attack ends?

block size increases slowly because the auto fee setting is broken, if people paid higher fees it would increase quicker

auto fee will be fixed with v0.18.3.2 which is hopefully out saturday or sunday