<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Apologies for not being present in the meeting. I support a jberman merge and can endorse their rate for multiple reasons. I'd also call their FCMP integration work critical.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Regarding BasicSwap, I arguably have CoIs. My main concern with any funding is how it's under the Particl banner. I'd also ask swap volume in the past 30 days to discuss current effectiveness (though I understand it's still trying to get out there and that's part of this proposal).

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> My main concerns with the immediate proposal is how it hands off all funds to a third party. The milestones aren't well defined and one set is based on sentiment.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I'd say ban the trolls (several against ofrn) and confirm all named parties/teams consent. I'd then be shook at the amount requested.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I'm not saying the amount is unreasonable for the contractors even. I'm saying the project needs to establish capital efficiency before it's thrown a large chunk of capital. The slew of audits we want done for FCMP++s raised that much when that work is critical to the core protocol.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> (though please note I didn't establish capital efficiency and was trusted, a trust I hope to earn over the next couple MRL meetings as I lay out quotes/steps forward)

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> 50k for a project manager of a small project like this seems very high. 200k for a year of dev is also questionable. If for 2-3 developers working full time, sure, it makes sense, if you trust them, believe the project worthwhile, and they have no other income. I'd want clarity on the exact developers currently proposed (tecnovert and crz?) and their current way of funding (do the<clipped message

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> y receive employment via Particl already?)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> 50k isnt much for a project manager tbh

<3​21bob321:monero.social> has the co-ordinator event contacted basicswap?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> even*

<3​21bob321:monero.social> how long normally does it take to provide a general fund transparency report ?

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> For a project this size? If it's 2 hours a day, every day, it's $68 an hour (more than some devs). I'm unsure the presumed hours/presumed benefit. I just find 33% of the team being managers a bit out there.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Anonero looks promising

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> hi. not been so active on here. so apologies if this has been discussed previous (i just searched 'localmonero', and got clarity on situation with their closure).

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> i wonder what is recommended presently for buying monero with fiat? i see *haveno* has been mentioned in the chat, and see that's not expected to be live til end 2024?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> i guess, buying btc with fiat, and using a swap service to get xmr?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> just on kycnot.me.. and see *'basicswap'* has a 10 rating, and must have just got added to the site. will explore this swap, but looks like a great resource.

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> any *other insight regarding xmr - fiat trade appreciate hearing* (if any active).

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> not looked into using Bisq for xmr, but aware this is also option... and doesn't seem to be xmr-fiat option, just 'altcoins' (as payment method, which not explored).

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> thanks.

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> Yea basicswap doesn't seem to do xmr -> fiat so theres no replacement for localmonero yet

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> U can do fiat -> btc -> xmr for now afaik

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> ok. good to know.

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> yes, i assume/d kycnot would have listed another xmr-fiat exchange if one existed.. seems btc-xmr is 'best' option presently alright..

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> Also checked robosats the the other p2p option, you can't do fiat -> xmr there either sadly

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> Also checked robosats the the other top p2p option on kycnot.me you can't do fiat -> xmr there either sadly

<a​js_:matrix.org> 50k, with a large chunk paid upfront, for spending a few hours a day opening issues and commenting in PRs sounds like a dream job, where do I sign up

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Hello. I see a lot of excitement about BasicSwap, but has anyone tried to understand how it works?

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Yesterday it was listed on kycnot.me with a 10/10 rating. I did a little investigation, and I'm not convinced that they actually have the technology they are talking about ("decentralized P2P message mixnet").

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> I expressed my concerns to kycnot.me maintainer, but haven't heard back yet: mitra.social/post/018f67bf-3b4e-b947-cb53-a8d63e8ff906

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> 10/10 rating is the level of Bisq. I followed its development from the early days, and there's nothing mysterious about it. It has a big community of contributors and the technology is well-documented. BasicSwap is not like that. The documentation is very sparse, and doesn't really explain anything. The codebase doesn't look like it uses a P2P network. All they have is a lot of bo<clipped messag

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> ld claims and a fork of Bitcoin Core used to spin up a PoS shitcoin.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> tl;dr: it is probably not secure, if not downright scam/honeypot. I don't recommend using their software until it will be independently audited.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Hi, despite contentions with ofrnxmr's proposal, it is true that BSX is still not a production ready software. Best source of information is still developers themselves. They have a matrix.org channel for development and general discussions that you could visit. I think it is unfair so say it is "downright scam/honeypot" knowing developers have been working on it for a long time w<clipped messa

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ith no financial gain. It is still part of the Monero ecoysystem. But I agree an independent audit is necessary for The Monero Project to recommend it.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> They are not working on it with no financial gain. They sell a token (PART): particl.wiki/support/faq/part-coin/#what-is-part

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> >It’s a technically advanced privacy coin, a voting ticket, a moderation token, a source of passive income, and much more. It is multi-purpose.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> (which, by the way, sounds too advanced for a poorly maintained Bitcoin Core fork)

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> >Best source of information is still developers themselves

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> No they are not. They are lying.

selsta part-time monero development (3 months) is now fully funded! ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/selsta-13.html @luigi1111

tyy

🥳

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> congrats selsta

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> hi. not been so active on here. so apologies if this has been discussed previous (i just searched 'localmonero', and got clarity on situation with their closure).

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> i wonder what is recommended presently for buying monero with fiat? i see _haveno_ has been mentioned in the chat, and see that's not expected to be live til end 2024?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> i guess, buying btc with fiat, and using a swap service to get xmr?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> just on kycnot.. and see _'basicswap'_ has a 10 rating, and must have just got added to the site. will explore this swap, but looks like a great resource.

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> any _other insight regarding xmr - fiat trade appreciate hearing_ (if any active).

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> not looked into using Bisq for xmr, but aware this is also option... and doesn't seem to be xmr-fiat option, just 'altcoins' (as payment method, which not explored).

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> thanks.

getmonero.org/community/merchants Please not the disclaimer. and be aware they have/will be giving presentations at monerokon. silverpill i was under the impression that basicswapdex is open source?

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> It is github.com/tecnovert/basicswap

but their claims of atomic swaps are totally fabricated until proven otherwise by an auditor?

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> I did talk about swaps. But I'm not convinced it's p2p. They have a module called network.py but it is not clear if it is actually used anywhere.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> github.com/tecnovert/basicswap/blob/master/basicswap/network.py

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> *didn't

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> I found the code for BTC-XMR swaps (can't verify it though)

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> They claim to support other currencies too, but I didn't find that (only the code that downloads clients)

the repo's About mentions "proof of concept" hm

but we could have said where is network dot py used in localmonero

if their multisig wallet claims where doubted etc

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Maybe it's proof of concept, but website advertises it as a finished product

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> basicswapdex.com

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> And proof of concept shouldn't get 10/10 on kycnotme

have you dont a ctrl+f for "network" on the source

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I must admit it is a valid concern. At least I would be interested to know more

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> (regarding 10/10 for PoC)

have the devs signed an NDA or something lol

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Particl seems to be a collective more than a real company

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> p​lowsof: yes, Network object is instantiated in basicswap.py (the main module)

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> But as far as I can tell, it is not actually used.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Partcl has CCS: ccs.particl.io/ideas

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Not sure what to think of it: particl/ccs-proposals #5

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Again, maybe they are doing their best. But I wouldn't run their exe, at least outside of an isolated VM

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That is a fair approach. It's about trust not just promises. I would just invite you to write out these concerns so other can see your opinion and hopefully get an anwser

<4​rkal:monero.social> silverpill: I have done like 2-3 trades on bsx for pretty large amounts don't think it's a scam...

<4​rkal:monero.social> You should really direct your concerns to the basicswap team

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Are you sure it is not a centralized exchange, which is being presented to us as a DEX?

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Building a DEX is a very difficult task. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but in the case of BasicSwap there's very little evidence.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Not really interested in talking with them or helping them, that would be a waste of time.

<4​rkal:monero.social> So just slandering them?

<4​rkal:monero.social> Pretty sure that no centralized exchange would require you to run full nodes for every coin you want to use

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Well, I pointed to a several questionable things.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> The burden of proof is on them

<4​rkal:monero.social> Are the questionable things "I took a quick look at the python code and it doesn't look pretty" ?

<4​rkal:monero.social> If you want to make bold claims like these at least try to back them

<4​rkal:monero.social> Basicswap is not a scam

<4​rkal:monero.social> And having people calling the only functioning dex rn a scam is not the best look for Monero in general.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Everything that involves money is a scam until proven otherwise. It's not about pretty code, I just can't find the parts that make it "decentralized" and "completely private". Documentation doesn't help. And I'm not going to do full audit for every project I'm encountering. Sorry.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> It has nothing to do with Monero, they have their own blockchain.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> >BasicSwap is still in beta. This means that, while it already offers most of the vital trading features you’d expect to see on centralized exchanges, it is still in heavy development, and many more features will come about in the near future.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Most likely it is not a DEX yet

<s​iren:kernal.eu> BasicSwap is still in beta. This means that, while it already offers most of the vital trading features you’d expect to see on **centralized exchanges**, it is still in heavy development, and many more features will come about in the near future.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Most likely it is not a DEX yet

<s​iren:kernal.eu> >BasicSwap is still in beta. This means that, while it already offers most of the vital trading features you’d expect to see on

<s​iren:kernal.eu> centralized exchanges, it is still in heavy development, and many more features will come about in the near future.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Most likely it is not a DEX yet

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Sure is easy to find the code if youre unsatisfied with mere likelihood and want to see how it works

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Theres an entire two repos of source code and a working network one can join by deploying the software, which a good number of people are already doing.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> What kind of evidence are you looking for exactly?

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> What would a basicswap instance do other than simply communicate via rpc with the local particl-core and thereby have data sent to peers?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> silverpill your dedication to trust and understanding may be noble, but you're the one making claims, you have to prove it. Saying here that BSX is a scam by default, just because from a quick overview you do not understand their source code, is counterproductive. You do you, but you can at least share this with the devs because otherwise I have to agree it's just slandering them.<clipped messa

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> They can't prove to you that they are not a CEX, you can't prove a negative. And at the opposite you can't prove that they are a DEX without reading its source code. So the one claiming is the one proving, it's that simple.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> unrelated: monero-project/meta #1006

<r​ucknium:monero.social> A while ago I asked kayabanerve kayabanerve if BasicSwap was doing true atomic swaps. This was in a DM, so I would have to get his permission to repeat his response :)

The suspense

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I haven't personally audited the protocol but tecnovert did an impl of adaptor signature swaps soon after I did mine.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I have no reason to believe BasicSwap isn't continuing use of that protocol.

<c​laude_francois:matrix.org> off-topic, that IRC relay boot is cool af

<c​laude_francois:matrix.org> off-topic, that IRC relay bot is cool af

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I'd rather restate my beliefs than share old messages which may have an intonation I prefer privately.

a +10 xmr donation to the i2p baked into the gui bounty bounties.monero.social/posts/32/32-205m-i2p-baked-into-the-monero-gui

and a +10 to XMR <> LTC atomic swaps bounties.monero.social/posts/112/20-211m-xmr-to-ltc-atomic-swap

and a +10 to this feather bounty bounties.monero.social/posts/123/10…ature-of-comit-xmr-btc-atomic-swaps

seeing the notifs in real time, sorry for the spam, wow

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> From my very precise calculations, if someone is willing to bake i2p in the gui, they will be able to buy 3613.669375 donuts

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> or 6022.78 bananas for reference

assuming a CEX means 'we connect to one ip' or ips controlled by one entity , then running the client with network monitoring tools would show who you're connecting to

mmmm donuts

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Datahoarder battles solar storms to bring us a stable IRC relay bot 🫡

:)

From March 19 in the i2p GUI bounties thread "It has been recommended by a longtime developer of I2P that we not bundle I2P directly into monero-gui; instead, it is recommended that we setup a SAM API for monero, which can then connect to a separate I2P router."

also wen XMR<>fiat swaps

*atomic swaps

<c​laude_francois:matrix.org> Its great for inclusivity, thank you. I didnt know matrix and only installed it because I thought IRC was gonna be empty by now... Thank you for bridging team

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> only problem clause_francois is matrix dot org receives irc messages extremely delayed (also from other home servers) , id suggest registering a monero dot social account

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> which may mean 'setting up a proton dot me email address cus thats one of the providers we can definitely send conf emails too' ehhh

<c​laude_francois:matrix.org> I see, I've noticed delays on some other channels. I planned on setting up my own matrix server soon. I thought I could transfer account ownership tho

<c​laude_francois:matrix.org> sucks that I must make a new account

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> monerologs.net has the full picture though in the meantime

<c​laude_francois:matrix.org> Ha perfect thanks

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> There should be a specification of their peer to peer networking protocol. And an independent audit of their code.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Right now the project has only 2 active contributors, both are not known outside of particl ecosystem.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> I

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> I was talking about networking, not swaps

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> I was responding to the suggestion that it isn't decentralized

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> When I can see RPC calls that lead to smsg messages and blockchain transactions that are replicated across two test nodes under my scrutiny, I have a sufficient answer for my needs

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> If you would now like to demand such a spec doc, feel free

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I may do the LTC - XMR swap.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> And anyone suggesting that the code shouldn't or needn't be audited is probably not being serious.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> I can still use the code without the audit if I'm aware of the risks though

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Sure you can. But this project is featured on getmonero.org and gets 10/10 on kycnotme, so I think it deserves public scrutiny. This shouldn't be controversial.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> What is controversial is suggesting something isnt doing something without demonstrating such

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> I can demonstrate to my own satisfaction that BSX is decentralized to a reasonable degree, as can many others

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Your unwillingness to do so for your own purposes does not interest me

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Lol.

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Go on, demonstrate it.

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> I welcome an audit

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> This is all I'm asking for

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> You want me to run the software and tail the logs for you?

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Strace the threads?

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Post the RPC libs?

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Yes

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Help yourself

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/437#note_24486 xmruw work progress update

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > hello hello, this is episode S01E01 of general work update, here you can see more important things that happened over last week

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> >

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > - multisig - initial implementation is both in monero_c and unnamed monero wallet (as in you can technically create multisig wallet, sending transactions is a pending feature as for now).

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > - windows builds got fixed to include embedded free call. I won't even mention how not-fun it was to figure out this issue

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > - upstream bug that causes crashes while storing got fixed (testing pending, will open issue/pr once it is confirmed fix by implementations)

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > - android builds now copy libstdc++_shared.so into release dir so it is not required to download entire NDK (or trust my extracted downloads)

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > - iOS got initial support in unnamed monero wallet

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > - bytewords got rewritten and tested again spec (it works, yay) and implemented in xmruw (WIP, ur is still not up to spec yet)

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> >

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> > p.s. if you have any concerns please mention @mrcyjanek0:matrix.org in community room or respond in this thread (and not separate comment), so at the S03E04 we will have a nice overview of the entire work completed.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Will this man stop saving monero

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I unironically had my wallet app corrupt and am out of pocket Monero :/ I should have the seeds somewhere but the few hundred dollars it was may not have been backed up (as I may have made the wallet just to try out the wallet and when I started using it, expected it to remain so trivial).

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> So I'm up for getting back some Monero in my pocket.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Question while serai/haveno going to get audits or has had them?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Will*

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Half asleep

serai has/is being audited (cypherstack have done some work on certain parts)

kayabanerve can confirm/detail

<s​ilverpill:hackliberty.org> Serai had audit in the past, and IIRC kayabanerve said there will be more: github.com/cypherstack/serai-audit

for haveno we could probably try to get multisig out of experimental state first :D

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> We've had two (crypto, bitcoin-serai) and are working towards the third (monero-serai). Depending on Haveno's needs/timeline, I'd call them to use the audited monero-serai. It has HS-OVKs and identifiable aborts.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> HS-OVKs = verify a multisig made a specific TX. It is not an OVK which allows finding all TXs made.

20:08:58 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> only problem clause_francois is matrix dot org receives irc messages extremely delayed (also from other home servers) , id suggest registering a monero dot social account

anything from monero.social

the bridge goes via monero.social

nobody follows suggestions :D

wen bridge between matrix and matrix

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)