Meeting in 2hrs monero-project/meta #1060

test

DataHoarder is m-relay okay

was till I went to sleep

05:35:04 *** m-relay (~m-relay@user/datahoarder/bot/lucky-bot) has quit (Excess Flood)

flood again

hopefully an active community causes this and not malicious spammers

🫠

it also is never able to come back online, issues of that software itself

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Datahoarder never sleeps and has fixed the problem

it literally died a few minutes after I went to sleep, it KNOWS

lol thanks Datahoarder!

Meeting time monero-project/meta #1060

Greetings!

Hello

hi

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> Aloha

Rucknium left an in-depth comment on boog900's proposal for bandwidth reduction here (goes into the privacy considerations of the proposed method) monero-project/monero #9334#issuecomment-2307824031

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> cypherstack released a [Monero Analysis report](github.com/cypherstack/pup-monero-analysis/releases/tag/final) and Monero CLI/GUI versions 18.3.4 has been released!

anyone wish to highlight something else that happened over this week?

we can jump into the ccs merge list if not ccs.getmonero.org/ideas

ok lets go over them (there are new ones also)

a. [New Monero Website](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450) benched until a new design - site workgroup is reaching consensus on this and Diego has spearheaded the setting of a penpot instance @ design.getmonero.org/#/auth/login and is actively researching astro / new design.

not much else to say about this until the design is resolved

Design is resolved

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Diego Salazar:

pretty sure it goes like this: were using hammerman's design with some changes to the layout

nice, we can circle back to this then. if all is well we can look at merging this . and because unstoppableswaps got to adjust rates, so can we all, yay!

exciting

yes that was my small take from the last -site meeting, overall the color theme is OK

we can move on then pending any comments from Diego?

and janaka of course if theyre here

yea

b. [hinto-janai full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/484)

hinto requested feedback in the cuprate group

boog900 left a thumbs up

<c​hch3003:monero.social> No comments, just waiting the design proposal

thanks for the confirmation janaka

I think an important question about cuprate as a whole: projected cost to bring to production

Rucknium looked into the zcash rust node conversion and found about 3~ish million usd of funding

Zcash everything is about 3-10x monero, isnt it

we currently have 2 funded cuprate devs on the ccs, im not sure how many works on/maintains zcash rust node implementation

(except for usage and price)

merging hinto then, next? :D

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yes

c. [0xfffc 3 months full-time dev.](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/487)

No comments 🤷‍♂️

+1

(as in: merge)

+1 0xfffc

i see only positive remarks from other devs for 0xfff merging, next

<r​ucknium:monero.social> IMHO, when cuprate gets a binary, it will be out of "limbo". I say "limbo" because AFAIK only cuprate devs are reviewing each other's work in depth. Once a binary is available, many people can test it out. That should settle questions about how the development is going.

they merge their own ccs proposals in the mean time without any over sight

<r​ucknium:monero.social> 0xfffc has been working hard on deep, long-term monerod issues. +1

merging 0xfff thanks for the feedback so far

d. [Haveno Multi-Platform Native App For Every OS](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/489)

ill hold off on this one as its only just taken shape / open for feedback

unless its a merge for people here?

I havent read through the details enough, but the project is sane, license issue was corrected

I think mobile access is one of the greatest deterrants for users

using a haveno instance needing only to "open an app" would be huge

Localmonero had an app. My main concern would be if its "reto-only" or if compatible with forks

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Could this satisfy some requirements of the old Haveno UI CCS?

Nop

<r​ucknium:monero.social> ok

Old haveno ui ccs was extremely vague and was for a desktop frontend

id have to look at it closely to give an opinion. kewbits solution is on desktop (multi OS)

if the question is about re purposing haveno funds to fund kewbit

The bounty funds should be repurposed imo

so we can definitley say people want it, and can it support multiple instances of haveno or are we funding a 'haveno reto app' which i dont like

+1 ^

i will channel monerobulls spirit and give it a -1 to balance out

Should ping woodser for comment as well

yes, it shuld take shape over the next coming days

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> you'll get to choose the network as part of an initial consideration process so long as they havent deviated away from woodsers protocol

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> you'll get to choose the network as part of an initial configuration process so long as they havent deviated away from woodsers protocol

if monerobull where here he would say no, it has to be reto only, how dare you fragment the network and let people get scammed

😂

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I am here

welcome

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Well, people can take the advice to use reto, or ignore it and on their head be it

sane

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I still think it's not a good move to promote "multi network" when there literally is only one network

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> perhaps we coulddddd put it as a default..... but that would have to be a community vote too

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Tor Integration: The app will enforce Tor usage, requiring users to connect via a Tor VPN relay (such as Orbot or InviZible). Without a Tor connection, the app will not proceed past the splash screen

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Only vpn mode ? Proxy mode ?

And you pinky-swear to keep maintaining it?

according to erccicone haveno reto is illegal. so the ccs funding something illegal might be sus

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It's more secure this way, no leaks.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> 100%

Erciccione is illegal

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I'm working on it since Thursday morning and havent slept lol

those words have just been said also and i am not a lawyer

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I swear to god

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Why can't it be stagenet only

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Nobody wants every app data going through tor

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Like haveno software

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> And the network has to adjust and publish itself

cover our asses and make it stagenet only and let someone fork it monerobull? thats a nice option

+1. It should allow lan

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Not everyone wants every app data going through tor

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Yeah plow, essentially have it be "reference software"

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Nym support please :p

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It's configurable, you select just Haveno, it's better to abstract the VPN because you need special entitlements and signing to use on big app stored, by using Orbot, we make it compatible with big app stores along with fdroid

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> and I aint signing shit for the appstore sorry

we dont want contributors to go on vacation like poksst neither

making sure this ccs is above board for longevity is a priority

+1

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> it's better overall for FOSS standards if we do it like this, Orbot wont ever get banned, but if we incorporate VPN proxy to haveno we lose some ability to be censorship resistant

orbot is trashola

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Tor should be optional imo. Monerujo wallet for example only works with Orbot. And it's not user-friendly

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> You can use

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> InviZible too

Tor, period. I can run my tor daemon in termux if i want. Not using or installing orbot

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Tor shouldn’t be optional, but proxy mode should be available

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Or I can just implement Arti or something but it wont be as secure im telling you

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> they dont have vanguard support yet I think

just make it a socks proxy.. that way it can be i2p as well

lederstrumpf adding atomic swaps to this haveno ui was mentioned but removed as it was out of scope

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> This is a unique challenge with gRPC http/2 over sock5

Tor and tor onions can be incredibly unreliable during ddos

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I thought you cannot connect to Haveno peers without Tor. Is that false?

cc'ing for the future unstoppableswaps / farcaster / eth-xmr / haveno ultimate client

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I could use envoy to translate the http/1 to http2, but thats also trashola

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I would argue thast more trashola than using orbot

The app connects to a running haveno instance, correct?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Oh right.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I can try doing native libs on every OS but it would take longer

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I forgot about that detail. So it makes it less user friendly for phone-only users

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It is for people who are doing trades while away from their machine

so far all mobile apps in the monero ecosystem struggle with the tor issue? ive heard of some apps with it bundled in directly

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I want talking to @sneurlax today about this and the conversation was fairly optimistic

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Bundling with it directly is either messy, complex or insecure, one of the 3.

i prefer external tor

<r​ucknium:monero.social> AFAIK it is easier to do Tor if you are connecting to a consumer/home machine since you don't have to open ports on routers or have a static IP address

Even haveno itself started using external iirc

unrelated to this proposal but i would be interested in hearing valldracs thoughts on that if he has any reg bundled vs external tor

Ruck: yep. Onion/i2p make it simple to punch through the firewall

Molly uses socks proxy

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I looked at CakeWallet

oh nice

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> it seems they are trying to implement Arti based Tor

Diego / stack and mysu use bundled

Stack doesnt work with onions unless you ysevthe bundled tor

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It might work for them as I presume they're using http1 based requests to xmr nodes rshter than grpc

Connecting to tor ONLY when you want to make transactions is sus

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> You can leave orbot on, and have it ONLY connect to haveno

Yep

with 15 mins left and plenty discussion over kewbits i think we can move on shortly?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> starts on boot too, so does the haveno app background service

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> ack - thanks. kewbit: why have atomic swaps been removed from the scope? it was a highlight in your original title ;)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> :D

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I was asked to remove it

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Same with Hardware wallets

because haveno has nothing to do with atomic swaps

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> So I did

haveno is a standalone service. I dont see why the app should be a fleamarket

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I wasn't nessesarily limiting to the haveno ecosystem, it was a larger vision to bring more liquidity into a single place

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> it should be a natural upgrade path though, no?

No. Haveno is fiat<>xmr and xmr<>crypto

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Fair enough, but frankly I wouldnt describe it as that, nor do I see it as an issue, but I removed it nonetheless.

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> sure. and atomic swaps are xmr<>crypto

i'm being extra hard on the idea of having multiple services, because this should be a "haveno" app

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> atomic swaps deprecate havenos crypto swaps

+1 plowsof

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lol

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> So its haveno, BTC -> XMR

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> BCH -> XMR etc etc

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> haveno has no crypto swaps only p2p fiat :)

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> yeah that's fair

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> but how many years until more swap pairs?

Bisq does 0 volume for every pair except for btc<>xmr

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> basicswapdex has many but thats another project

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lets move on before too many cans of worms are opened

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> exactly. so for haveno to remain relevant for xmr<>crypto, it makes sense to integrate atomic swaps there. whatever it's original design was should be a secondary consideration imo.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Whats the average amount of offers on bisq at any given time

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> positive sentiment on this proposal clearly, open for feedback and input as discussed here

Haveno needs to implement atomic swaps then, not this app implementing unstoppableswaps etc

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> moving on, e. [j-berman full-time development (3 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/491)

+1 j-berman

Leder, this is for a mobile app for haveno. Not for haveno

<r​ucknium:monero.social> j-berman making good progress on FCMP++ implementation. +1

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I’m happy either way, whatever it’s quickest.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> merging j-berman

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> cc kayabanerve

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Ultimately trying to implement atomic swaps will probably take up time better spent on haveno specifics

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> f. [tobtoht full-time feather + core development (3 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/492)

+1 tobi

+1 tob

And welcome back

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> featherwallet.org consistently updates monero before all wallets, including monero gui/cli xD

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> as in releases with latest monero

wouldn't be without your builds plow ;)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> +1

Looking forward to this as well

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Will the planned Feather multisig support enable multisig CCS wallet?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> progress updates are shared in #feather:monero.social . the bootstrappable / guix build process just feels alot easier than gitian, in part due to tobtohts docs/help, thanks

Surely we need tobtoht

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I guess the answer is obvious, but I wanted to bring up multisig CCS again :D

feather multisig support is intended to solve the ccs and generalfund wallet issue

r​ucknium: "Will the planned Feather multisig support enable multisig CCS wallet?" <- that's the point of the exercise, yes

<r​ucknium:monero.social> AFAIK the 2024 general fund transparency report hasn't been released yet

correct. well over a year since the last one

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> correct

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Just an opportunity to bring it up :D

merging tobtoht

thanks all :)

AOB - noting ccs transparency report

monero-project/meta #998 trans report request

otherwise thank you all for attending and giving feedback at short notice, lets push these proposals through

Thats why your name is plow

<c​hch3003:monero.social> We should have a transparency report every month

we dont even have merges every month

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But the funds has donations

<c​hch3003:monero.social> We discuss about merging proposal, allocating money from the funds, but we (or at least I) don't know how much is in the fund

<r​ucknium:monero.social> janaka: Do you think the General Fund contributes to most CCS proposals? It doesn't

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You can see donations going to the GF wallet with its view key. There is even a twitter account

<r​ucknium:monero.social> IMHO, doing a transparency report once a month is a lot for unpaid workers to do. Maybe once a quarter could be good. Once a year is the minimum probably

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Right but I want to know the current balance, all the transactions in and out

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Real transparency

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Core does the general fund transparency report and Core can never be paid

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Is it that hard to make that report?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> From observation, we may infer "Yes".

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Because it doesn't get done often. And other Core duties don't get done often

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Lazy ass

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Core has an open invitation to anyone who wants to overthrow them

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The situation isn't ideal, yes

<c​hch3003:monero.social> For sure, it works for now because Monero is small, but at as point governance will have to evolve

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I accept

<c​hch3003:monero.social> For sure, it works for now because Monero is small, but at some point governance will have to evolve

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It may evolve when more people want to take more responsibility. Hard to find trusted people to take more responsibility.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont think thats the first blocker

<r​ucknium:monero.social> "Proposal: Disband Core" monero-project/meta #921

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi said he was going to stop managing ccs wallet by march, but then blocked my request to have my ccs escrowed by someone else

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seems to me that fluffy was the only core member who actually wanted to open up the floor

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> when it comes to monero repo merges, luigi is good. When it comes to site deployment or signing binaries, bf is good.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> when it comes to managing money, i dont like that either of them has single signer wallets

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Especially since one of them was drained.. and the other one we have 0 insight into until 12+months after our last look

<c​hch3003:monero.social> yep

We dont see any of the invoices for the bills that generalfund pays. We just take bf at his word that he had to replenish 15k

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> dont care. at the end if core exhausts as tired individuals it'll either be the loudest one winning the position or the most silent and efficient one.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I support Rucknium and rbrunner7 as future core

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> because they don't talk

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> so we can't make drama out of them

<r​brunner7:monero.social> talk talk talk talk

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lmao

bf doesnt talk, that doesnt stop us from making drama out of it

<r​ucknium:monero.social> SyntheticBird doesn't know that the community's first introduction to me was full of drama. Anyway, IMHO research and Core should be separate so that researchers can speak the truth, even if it puts the protocol in a negative light.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no way I didn't know that.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> also yes I agree.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Thats why since Rucknium and Rbrunner refused the job I'm obligated to step up as new core

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> nevermind i'm hungry, i step down

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You already own the monero-project repos on librejo :P

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I appreciate you trying to comfort me but truth is i have dictatorial needs and the poor 6 users I've on librejo aren't enough to attenuate my blood thirst

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> btw kewbit if you want you can backup your working repo on librejo.monerodevs.org

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you can sign in with your Github account directly if needed

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> Sorry for interrupting but

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> Can someone tell me that:

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> Are there any differences between mastodon and lemmy aside from mastodon leaning towards twitter and lemmy to reddit?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah thats basically it. The two are using ActivityPub and are by definiton part of the ***Fediverse***

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> What's the recommended app for android and linux for using lemmy?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> idk for linux but thunder is pretty decent on android

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> So why do we have monero town on lemmy instead of mastodon?

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> Because of its thread feature?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 1. Because monero.town appeared after reddit have decided to go wild on bans and bots

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> because monerobull likes lemmy lol

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> so it was meant to be a replacement to r/monero (which is the biggest monero community)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> also gosh if you hate politics you'll hate mastodon

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> if you stick to your subscribers its ok but try to explore mastodon a bit more and its the farwest

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> I saw MB and RW fighting over where to host monero town, I didn't know much about it, but RW was insisting on migrating Monero.town to lemmy iirc.

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> Isn't it already on lemmy? Why are they fighting over it?

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> because most of them migrated from twitter after elons backers occupied it

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> extreme left activists, woke and DEI in general

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> wasn't RW vs MB beef about wether to encourage monero.town or monero.cafe ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> or something like idk. I thought it was a fight between listing mb or rw instance

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That is my impression too

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> cc: rottenwheel

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> It's my first time hearing about the monero.cafe

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> But RW was whining about monero.towns Uptime being 96% instead of 100

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> And how we can fix that by migrating over lemmy or maybe one of the lemmy instances instead of self hosting one?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> idk

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> im lost

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> cc: ofrnxmr

<c​larck__amberson:matrix.org> Chant the Ofrnxmr summoning spell

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> btw lemmy is written in rust while mastodon is ruby if im not wrong

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> as a rust evangelist it is my job to identify failed project and i'm yet again deceived by a great project done in the great rust language but that failed miserably (the web interface)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Fractal is another example

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I love rust but if our followers don't use Ferris' faith wrong you'll fail

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> faith right they'll fail*

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i dont think lemmy failed though

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> dev team is way too small

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i know im just a hater

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> @kewbit:

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> All the currencies I see listed under Haveno's supported assets are either already swappable with XMR or trivial to add (with the exception of BCH on the arbitrating side): github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/tree/m…ts/src/main/java/haveno/asset/coins

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> And the tokens are all ERC20s, which should be a straightforward extension to AthanorLab's ETH/XMR swap implementation.

<l​ederstrumpf:matrix.org> github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/tree/m…s/src/main/java/haveno/asset/tokens

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Anyone working on BEP20?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Do not add random crap thx

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Nobody is using most of the shitcoins bisq added

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Why not, it’s got tons of liquidity

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Even stables are barely touched

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Yes, in its own ecosystem

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Not on a random dex that has nothing to do with it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I'd bet money that BEP20 volume on haveno would be absolutely pitiful

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> their on-chain swap eco system is done with 1inch mostly I think which is actually pretty expensive

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> well we dont dislike more bridges but lets deliver the main task asap before any additional features

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I’m going to deliver myself some sleep now before I have a stroke 😀

Syn, im am hour late

a few days ago there was discussion regarding upfront payments for the CCS. Mostly about a project being completed and then asking for funding compared to how it is currently done with a proposal being approved and then paid according to milestones.

The benefits of doing it the way we do was highlighted in today's meeting dealing with kewbit's proposal.

Previously we dealt with the open source and licensing issues. Then there was reducing the scope to something that the community considered more appropriate. Finally there were questions of implementation, specifically about tor.

All of this discussion results in a project that follows monero's requirements and results in in a project that is wanted by the community.

.bbl

monero-project/monero-site #2351 tldr on rw vs mb

<3​21bob321:monero.social> It was about cloudflare

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Nioc has spoken ,This is the way

I agree w nioc, but that doesnt disqualify the face that the project is already underway

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Stop work meeting

Do you observe the sabath / take summers off? If so which hemisphere do you live in. Thank you

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Hmm doxxing behaviour

plowsof: every day is thanksgiving

shabbat shalom

I thought BEP20 was the exact same thing as ERC20 (as well as 20 tokens on any other EVM compatible chain)

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Bep20 is slightly better but it’s built by a centralised exchange

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Bep20 is likely to outlive ERC20 IMO (sadly), fees get stupid on there but they were still first so they will hold the ranking for a while

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> One time I check ERC 20 was like $70 txn fee

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I never paid more than $0.15 for XMR!!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You paid 15c? Baller

nioc thank you for summarizing

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah boi, when for fast (not fastest) not balling that hard yet.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah boi, went for fast (not fastest) not balling that hard yet.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i asked hinto to adjust exchange rates to bring them inline with jberman/tobtohts . ive also asked 0xfff to show some fiat rates so i can ask him to ask for less xmr, thanks

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fiat schmiat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> fiat rates are only used to say "price i'm going to sell my monero for is why i need to ask for this amount"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Also, some ppl asking like "20usd + 0.1xmr/hr"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats not "fiat" thats just confusion

<3​21bob321:monero.social> i didnt know when pay in fiat?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like.. either ask for $ or ask for xmr. Don't do both

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> we dont!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> we*

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> holy fuck they arrested durov

#monero-offtopic

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Who’s that?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> telegram

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I don’t know the channels

plowsof: hinto's rates were already lower than j berman and above thotbot'a