FYI libera.chat/news/llm-etiquette

Given we have public logs out note those may be scanned by external companies training content for AI anytime

<j​ohn_r365:monero.social> @vThor & rbrunner7: was just catching up on your convo re Monero's SeedSigner. I'd add my agreement that 2 versions should exist. The existing amnesiac version, and one that has persistent memory, and has its security strengthened in some way. For example, requiring a passphrase that doesn't get stored - or other methods.

<j​ohn_r365:monero.social> Reiterating what has already been said, it seems like a great DIY hardware wallet solution, but if every user has to keep printed QR codes in proximity to the device, users who want convenience are likely to be put off.

<a​js_:matrix.org> MKC3 call for workshops/presentations up x.com/MoneroKon/status/1860321346380533986

<a​js_:matrix.org> Deadline December 7th

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Why do early?

<a​js_:matrix.org> Please retweet and invite potential speakers

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Why so early?

<a​js_:matrix.org> C3 planning has a tight schedule unfortunately

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Ah never mind I thought this is about mk

<a​js_:matrix.org> We need more Monero representation at C3. It is great they are open to hosting us since hacker type events tend to be very anti-crypto

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> That's what vast majority of SeedSigner users do, the fork XMRSigner is derived from. Best they can do is be able to eject the microSD card after boot. That is what a stateless signer is... 🙄 Cc. rbrunner7

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> You'd need to partition the microSD somehow to make a "persistent" environment on the Pi. I'd recommend to think of what the word stateless means; let alone understand what features and limitations both the Pi and the XMRSigner have.

john_r365: this will be the case, not yet 100% sure how I will implement it exactly, but this will happen defenitely.

Meeting in 1 hr monero-project/meta #1113

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> As long as you let one decide between persistent and stateless, I'm game. vthor

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Good luck figuring out how to do persistent though lol, will be interesting to see.

rottenwheel: I don't like really the thought to safe the seeds on the same microSD card - although it is probably the cheapest option, it is not the best. On my research for NFC payment on weak hardware I found cheap SPI secure elements and SPI flash, which could be sourced in quantities of 100 for below $5.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> vthor the more you talk about ways to implement persistent state for XMRSigner, the less I like the idea, and I already oppose and disagree with it 100% as-is...

rottenwheel, It will result in two different build, I don't like incactive code in the image. Could even be happen to go to 3 version (but not sure, need some time to think and thinkering about and analyze different threat models - and best would be to get some actual user input, why they want to have certain version)

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Beyond my bias, sounds stupid, for lack of a better word, to add more components, as that would effectively bar current SeedSigner users and owners from trying XMRSigner in the first place...

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Don't break the stateless concept. What the other two individuals claim to be a UX hurdle, is the main selling point of the SeedSigner project.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I find it hard to understand how instead of looking at it from the security perspective, they latch on the UI/UX inconvenience...

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Cool, yeah, all WIP. I've said my piece. Congrats on getting fully funded, sir. 😊

No, the stateless version will be always 100% staeless, not even microSD storing. And a version with microSD storing, need to see... And discous with actual user.

rottenwheel, thank you very much! Hopen to see you in CDMX, but missed you.

Need to walk the white monster before he pees on my feets. afk.

Meeting time monero-project/meta #1113

greetings!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> howdy

whats been going on since the last meeting? Monerotpia happened monerotopia.com

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Hello everyone

MKC3 call for workshops/presentations up x.com/MoneroKon/status/1860321346380533986 - ajs

0xfff made a PR making some improvements to --no-initial-sync and wallet-rpc?

kewbit teased a CCS update for the haveno-gui... the monero -serai/wallet ccs proposal from kayabanerve has been merged ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Make wallet-rpc great for the first time since bytecoin

Hello.

in my recent ccs update, i tallied up the funds we've repurposed or donated to the general fund from abandonned ccs proposals. 384.06 repurposed. 161.85 returned to the general fund repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/503#note_27312

Hi!

<0​xfffc:monero.social> monero-project/monero #9579

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Boooo 👎

i look forward to testing this 0xfffc thank you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We should instead repurpose the old gemeralfund btc and xmr addresses funds from black hole to transparency report

<0​xfffc:monero.social> ( You’re welcome. My pleasure. )

monero-project/monero #9579 one of @0xfffc's fixes

thanks

XMRSigner from vthor originating from repurposed funds :) but now his own work has been funded (was discussed today here)

ofrnxmr did you mention wallet-rpc using insane bandwidth amounts if left running 24/7?

ive never ran it at home so wouldn't notice

<0​xfffc:monero.social> I believe this should alleviate the problem: monero-project/monero #9574

News: [Monero Observer](monero.observer) - [Revuo Monero](revuo-xmr.com)

oh, another PR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes

Siren/Stnby of digilol/moneropay are probably effected , as well as alot of merchants/swappers then

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like gb's per hr if a service utilizes close_wallet inbeteren open_wallet calls

good catch

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Yes. It was basically days (or even months of? of computation wasted overall.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> leads to very very much increased time to respond the longer the service is running

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Resyncs the same blocks over and over.. and over again

0xfffc: but this will only avoid long opening time on open a wallet, would it be easy to quick fix the also the restore wallet from seed? (I suspect the long time on weak hardware comes from generating addresses on restore)

perhaps this is when i need to kill the process by grabbing its pid

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think there still may be an off-by-1 issue, as it syncs 2 blocks everytime it receives 1 more now

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Great catch. I will try to fix it. Will dm you about it. 🙏🏻

<s​tnby:kernal.eu> Huh?

"if a service utilizes close_wallet inbeteren open_wallet calls" - ofrnxmr above. if moneropay does this then could be suffering from delays/bandwidth usage

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> tldr: these wallet-rpc issues should help projects, like moneropay, to function better

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It also doesnt seem to refresh at open like its supposed to. Takes 20secs

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Yeah the resync thing is very annoying

nice

anything else to bring up? else we can move on to the ccs ideas

articmine shared thoughts on FCMP in MRL today which raised further discussion libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20241123

specifically the "post on FCMP++ costs and transaction sizes"

MRL can weigh in on this further.. now then

moving on, ccs ideas:

a. [Carrot animated video](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/506)

close/merge?

not enough positive engagement around this, looks like it will be closed

plowsof: As a side note, was the FCMP++ video officially released, or not yet?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think this is a close, no engagement from proposer

vostoemissio released a video , yes, thanks

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not yet, xenu and vost redoing some of the script

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The video they released was a pre-release, and kaya commented some inaccuracies

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So theyre going to fix up and rerelease

thanks debruyne, here is vostos comment, open for feedback as above libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20241121#c462513

closing Carrot animated video

b. [CryptoCheckout WordPress plugin (for WooCommerce) & Shopify app](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/514)

close/merge?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Close

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Oh, for community news

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Haveno Development and #haveno:development are the new homes for haveno dev on matrix and irc

a close from me. also special thanks for mrnaif from bitcart.io for sharing his insight regarding getting on to the shopify app store and such

the proposer of the above didnt even know how it was done and dropped the premise immediately

closing cryptocheckout

c. [Monerotopia 2024 Marketing and Publicity](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/515)

this was pre-approved, pending the upcoming update from geonic , we can move on unless that is on hand

at hand*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> +1 plowsof

plowsof: ty

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seems the event went well though. Congrats

👏

d. [Gingeropolous 1TB MRC upgrade](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/516)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Mrl i think liked this, but i again have mt reservations about continuously trusting folks who are irresponsible with our security and privacy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think someone else should run the mrl lab pcs

20 xmr, ram for MRL who expressed a need for it , and with positive updoots

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ginger refused to share the ips that he was forwarding to, and it took community whitehats to pry the info from internet logging or nslookup

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And he deleted ips and still refused to share

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Maybe gingeropolous can do a sysadmin security short course :)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I wouldn't mind doing one myself

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dodges any questions about the subject

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i dont think it eas irresponsible due to being uneducated, but simply due to negligence

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> then tried to cover it up

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And still pretends like nothing happened

<h​into:monero.social> hello

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> Re fcmp video: revisions made just waiting for Luke

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> Re carrot: vosto and I have expressed interest for doing an animated vid for this though not sure if there is enough interest

Rucknium is one of the main consumers of ram, if i could click my heels then Rucknium would be setting the hardware up in house for other MRL members

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> Waiting for Luke to sign off*

blame kayabanerve for any issues moving forward, noted

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> Thanks

thanks for sharing the update Xenu 💪

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> 😁

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Most of the expense of the MRC hardware was covered by gingeropolous. The implicit deal, I think, is that ging provides most of the hardware free-of-charge since he's mining Monero on it when the CPU threads are free. I hope that ging gives a fuller explanation for what happened with node.moneroworld.com , but consider that getting greenfield owned or rented hardware would be expe<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> nsive for the CCS.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Even with this proposal, ging is paying for the machine. The CCS is just for the RAM (which isn't really needed for mining)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, lets just keep funding his mining operation. I think that's messed up

merging gingeropolous - we could fund sech1 to purchase expensive monero mining equipment and let MRL use it upon request too

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Didnt we pay for the rigs with prior ccs' too? I might be mistaken here

<r​ucknium:monero.social> No, he doesn't need this RAM for mining

ah ok

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why not just let ruck buy the ram for himself

<r​ucknium:monero.social> With a prior CCS, large SSDs were purchased. Again, that's what research needs, not mining

we are not funding his mining operation, his mining operation is being used by MRL

<r​ucknium:monero.social> nioCat has it right

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> thank niocat

thanks mbull

moving on

<h​into:monero.social> Rucknium: curious, what is the setup for storing the DB in ram?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> thanks mbll

<r​ucknium:monero.social> In an R `data.table`

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You want the columns?

<h​into:monero.social> are those stored/reusable by other programs?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Basically no. It's for statistical analysis. You cannot run the blockchain from this, if that's what you are asking.

e. [v1docq47 - monerotopia 2024 voiceovers and working on xmr.ru](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/517)

i've shared this proposal in the xmr.ru matrix room, continued positive support that gets him merged is coming in

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Voting merge on account of successful history and always getting funding

<r​ucknium:monero.social> An R `data.table` is extremely fast for statistical analysis, especially for data that has a hierarchical structure like Monero: block -> tx -> ring -> ring member

<r​ucknium:monero.social> h2oai.github.io/db-benchmark

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The downside is that it keeps the data in RAM, so if you have lots of data, you need lots of RAM.

looks like v1docq47 will be merged shuld the trend in feedback continue after its sat for a bit longer

Any other business?

Are we all waiting for a general fund transparency report?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Generalfund 0 1 2 3 4 and 5

<h​into:monero.social> does each program that needs `data.table` map LMDB data to a `data.table` on startup before continuing?

we can end the meeting here then. thank you all for attending

<r​ucknium:monero.social> All data is pulled in through JSON-RPC queries. It takes about 18 hours to get all data since the bock height RingCT was introduced. There isn't a simple data dump from the LMDB because it's not well-documented and has C++ serialization objects.

<a​js_:matrix.org> Planning meeting starting in #monerokon:matrix.com

<a​js_:matrix.org> Planning meeting starting in #monerokon:matrix.org

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It asks `get_block` and `get_transactions` : github.com/Rucknium/misc-research/b…Flood/code/output-index.R#L114-L128

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Video was taken down after kayaba's feedback as far as I can tell.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Do you have heels? 🧐😳

<v​ostoemisio:matrix.org> We've revised it 👍

<v​ostoemisio:matrix.org> drive.proton.me/urls/CCSB8WSXXR#NdDCBXmKgTP5

<v​ostoemisio:matrix.org> Still pending Luke's feedback though

<w​teme:matrix.org> Hello. watched Andy Y on the opt out podcast and ended up here.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Soon™️