[CCS Proposals] Yijia Zhang opened merge request #576: Add new ccs for monero repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/576

<3​21bob321:monero.social> This spam ?

[CCS Proposals] Yijia Zhang closed merge request #576: Add new ccs for monero repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/576

<3​21bob321:monero.social> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…posals/-/merge_requests/576/commits

[CCS Proposals] Yijia Zhang closed merge request #575: OPENENET-MS01-MoneroSpace-Decentralized-Satellite-Network-for-monero repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/575

[CCS Proposals] Yijia Zhang opened merge request #577: OPENENET-MS01-MoneroSpace-Decentralized-Satellite-Network repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/577

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> something wrong with this guy 🤔

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> <p​lowsof> am i foolish for thinking, well why not? and then a follow up proposal for this? likely

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> <o​frnxmr> Probably an easier merge if its split up into separate ccs

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> People gave their upvotes for all 3 milestones. All the risk is on my side. The milestones are tied to concrete deliverables. The people that want to blockade this are abrasive and want to deliver one mobile app for 375 xmr that wont be useful without a running haveno node. A web frontend that you can connect to from a browser wallet would make much more sense. This is the paradig<clipped message>

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> m that the rest of the ecosystem settled on. Even the mobile wallets contain browsers.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> have i served my term yet as ccs coordinator, please free me

<3​21bob321:monero.social> To bad you renewed it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No early parole

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> maybe we should structure the workgroup sessions better, so that the conversation is not as repetitive.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> If people have objections they should be forced to state their arguments clearly. At least write out one paragraph. The objections should be objective as possible and not just trolling. Once an objection was made it shouldn't be endlessly repeated. Otherwise there will be a bias towards people that just want to pour sand into the gears.

<4​rkal:monero.social> Major UI changes at cyphergoat.com ; )

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> maybe you should restructure your proposal better, instead of thinking the problem is with everyone else

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> says the person who literally cant sum up the problem they are attempting to solve in a single sentence

<a​oecs:matrix.org> Has anyone tried cuprate? Did you manage to broadcast a transaction?

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> the proposal is perfectly structured. You don't have a veto right over all the people that voiced their support. The majority is on my side and your insults and trolling wont change that.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> <w​oodser:monero.social> you’d have to create a dedicated native application for each use case then, whereas a browser extension makes this a programmable component from any website

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> <w​oodser:monero.social> you’d have to create a dedicated native application for each use case then, whereas a browser extension makes this a programmable component from any website

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> 20:38

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> <w​oodser:monero.social> the idea is to avoid having the user interact with cypertext at all, which is poor UX, and especially problematic in monero's multisig due to the back and forth requirements, repeated for each transaction, so it's not even a one time / direction thing

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> (20:44

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> NorrinRadd haveno uses multisig, and the user is never exposed to the cyphertext. this is what i mean. in the same way that a website would be hiding the multi-sig process from the user by using this browser extension, is the same way they'd hide the cyphertext by using a native application.)

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> 20:49

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> m-relay

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> <w​oodser:monero.social> you’d have to create a dedicated native application for each use case then, whereas a browser extension makes this a programmable component from any website

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> here is the whole convo

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> explains it perfectly in one sentence

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> a multi-sig browser wallet than needs a companion app to 2fa? instead of just um.. using a mobile/desktop wallet

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> now just shut up

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> browser wallets suck, your proposal is a cash grab

<w​oodser:monero.social> I don't know why some in this chat are having a hard time understanding the use case of a browser wallet extensions. metamask is indisputably adopted because of its ease of use, which only an extension can provide. those saying it's glorified copy/paste are clearly not seeing what e.g. metamask is directly enabling

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> applying defi to monero is retarded

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> if the need was there, it would have happened ages ago

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> trying to port over a "solution" to a nonexistent problem

<w​oodser:monero.social> what is "defi" about a website being able to interact with a monero wallet programmatically, to enable easy commerce or multisig?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> then why bring metamask in the the convo? thats its main use case. plus spiroel used the defi buzzword when trying to sell his overpriced ccs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> bruh

<w​oodser:monero.social> I think its main use case is to simplify complex wallet interactions. the same applies in monero, whether signing a basic transaction or coordinating multisig

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> i dont see any problem that it solves

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you dont see the benefit of being able to hold and swap monero with nothing than a browser?

<w​oodser:monero.social> simplifying the coordination of multisig, so user don't have to copy/paste long snippets cyphertex for every transaction isn't a valid problem to solve?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> without any other apps or programs

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> when we have plently of apps already

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and [aying from them is much better UX and more secure than a multisig 2fa browser wallet

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but the entire point is to not need apps

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to reduce friction

<w​oodser:monero.social> I guess some people will not get it. "my mobile app works just fine"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> apps arent the problem

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> there is no problem being solved here

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i dont even have an eth wallet

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i dont even have an eth wallet app

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> just shittier UX

<w​oodser:monero.social> why do you say that coordination of multisig, to save users from manually copying/pasting snippets are cyphertext, is not a problem being solved?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> "download this 300MB app" is shitty UX

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> cake?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> any app

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> so hes solving wallet apps?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> im not going to download shit if someone tells me to (unless its in return for a tshirt, thanks tari)

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> wallet apps ar ethe problem?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> why dont you tell me what is SO BAD about paying online with a mobiledesktop app

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> having to dl 300mb?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the problem is accessibility

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> literally everyone has a smart phone

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> more people have smart phones than computers

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> android is the biggest OD in the world, by far

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> android is the biggest OS in the world, by far

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> the default today is apps

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> whats so bad about having a browser wallet?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> for EVERYTHING

<w​oodser:monero.social> that doesn't negate the benefits of monero wallet extension for certain use cases

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not in crypto it isnt

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> whats so good about it?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> explain the use case

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> yes it is

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> for everything

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> nope

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and browser wallets are insecure

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> nope

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and are #1 targets of phishing attacks

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> yep

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you can use metamask with a trezor

<w​oodser:monero.social> coordinating a multisig wallet, so users do not have to manually copy and paste snippets of cyphertext, to setup the wallet and for every transaction thereafter. or simply sending a transaction to pay for a good or service from a website

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> and these apps contain small browsers to connect with the dapps. look at backpack, phantom, they all have browsers

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> lol copy paste

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> qr scan

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah exactly lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> using the metamask in-app browser was so much worse than using the extension on desktop

<w​oodser:monero.social> you want the user to scan the qr code for every transaction to sync the wallet state?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> so let me get this straight

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> multisig monero UX requires a browser wallet extension...?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you want to have something like app.safe.global, for sure

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> that thing secures 25 times Moneros entire marketcap

<w​oodser:monero.social> it would benefit from it tremendously, to hide the complex synchronization requirements from the users. you could instead use dedicated native apps, but something general programmable will have the advantage, which is why metamask has enjoyed its success vs building native apps for each thing

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> so building something for a non-existent hyptothetical

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> yes but to what end

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> what is the end goal

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> otherwise this is a hypothetical, overenigeered science project

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Make monero as accessible as possible?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> its not

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and will never be

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> we are not an "Accessible" coin

<w​oodser:monero.social> a usable multisig wallet accessible from the browser would have its own value, for one

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> we are fucking delisted

<m​onerobull:monero.social> What is the end goal of campaigning against more accessibility?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> stop trying to paste normie crypto narrative s to monero

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you can argue that for literally any proposale then

<w​oodser:monero.social> but then apps can be built on top of that as well, incorporating multisig

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> "muh mass adaoption"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> look at the market

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> look at what its telling you

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> they dont want monero in their normie apps

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> the dark net is where we shine

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Just look at fucking metamask and how it's a hundred times more massive than our entire project over here

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> this ccs will not bring adoption

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> i can guarantee it

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no specific ccs will

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you cant compare

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you cant say metamask = browser wallet = success

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Boomer

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> so monero browser wallet = success

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> metamask RESPONDED to a need

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> this ccs is attempting to create it

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> lmao look whos talkingb

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> nice comeback lma

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> o

<m​onerobull:monero.social> This CCS is attempting to make monero as accessible as the massively more successful shitcoins

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> there is no need here to be solved

<m​onerobull:monero.social> How do you think people will interact with serai?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no its not. its using "adaoption" as a vague way to get funded

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no its not. its using "adaption" as a vague way to get funded

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> all you need to look at is RINO

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> multisig browser wallet

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> closes shop because NO DEMAND

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Paying cake a 2.5% fee on every swap? I doubt the professional arb traders will want to do that

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> is serai out? working? whats the stats

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no professional trader is trading monero

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> its fucking delisted

<m​onerobull:monero.social> You clearly have no insight on this topic

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> theyre a 1000 other better coins to trade

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> stop this normie mindset

<m​onerobull:monero.social> So it's insane how aggressively you are against it

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ok genius

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ill trust the market over a random monero bull

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> we are not in that section of the crypto industry

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> period

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> the way darknet markets are currently built lacks in luster. With a monero browser wallet, exit scams will become much harder. If multisig UX is good and easy nobody will do escrow where the admin has access to the funds and can mitm

<m​onerobull:monero.social> And the market has chosen metamask you retard

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> correct dumbass

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and meta doesnt have monero support

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> because if people wanted monero, theyd have ADDED IT long before the ccs

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> there is no demand

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> so stop trying to force it thru bs proposals

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Metamask is owned by the fucking banks

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Of course they won't add monero

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ALL OF CRYPTO IS

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> except monero

<m​onerobull:monero.social> So we have to do it ourselves

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> we are

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> but not by copying them

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no one wants this shit but 6 upvooters

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Everyone in support of this is literally representing demand for it

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Your only argument is there is no demand

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> yes 6 upvooters

<m​onerobull:monero.social> But 5 people are telling you there is

<w​oodser:monero.social> "the fax machine works, I press a button and it sends the data. no need for other ways"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ignoring the entire market that skipepd over us

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no, i need a way more coplicated machien than the fax to do a worse job"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no, i need a way more complicated machine than the fax to do a worse job"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> not everything new is innovative

<w​oodser:monero.social> and that's why mobile phones are of no use

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you still havent said why

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and where is RINO is multisig browser is so imporant and pressing?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> and where is RINO if multisig browser is so imporant and pressing?

<w​oodser:monero.social> to remove complex interaction from the user, for any potential application

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> how is that complicated in mobile/desktop wallets

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> are you saying we cant have good multisig UX in wallet apps?

<w​oodser:monero.social> mutisig wallets require the exchange of cyphertext for every transaction. this is poor UX to require from the user

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> rino ux was terrible

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> exactly BECAUSE there are no browser wallets

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> it would have been fix wit hthere was any DEMAND and feedback

<w​oodser:monero.social> also even basic transactions for simple commerce can be simplifieid

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> but let me guess, this is the magic CCS that will fix it all and FINALLY bring adaoption

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> can you explain how that would be done on mobile

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> have you ever used thorchain

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> or cross desktop/mobile

<w​oodser:monero.social> on mobile it would require some dedicated native app to hide this from the user

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Where is the info being transacted..?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> a separate app?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> browsers already have p2p capabilities

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> webrtc for example

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Obv "the internet", but how does party A do a multisign via BW w/o exposing metadata (their ip etc) to party B

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Isnt that reliant on a messaging protocol?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> using tor?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you can also have extensions for the tor browser

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ah yes, normie friendly

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> This is not only meant for normies and I have no idea where you got that from.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> For sure it benefits normies but again: if you look at how darknet markets are currently built there is a lot of room for improvement

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> correct, thats why there will be no adoption

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> its just a science project for a couple of nerds online

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> you are so confused mate

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> for adoption against adoption

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> have you ever used thorchain?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> youre the one saying its for adoption

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> but hten normies wont use it

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> the only confused here is you, as shown by your inability to even say what problem your proposal solves

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you have never used the smartcontract cryptos before then you have no idea what possibilities there even are

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> i do, but were not getting that on monero

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> like i said, stop forcing it

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> monero is digital cash

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> we dont have smart contracts

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> what a stupid fucking sentiment

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> "stop trying to improve"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> um the truth?

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> who the fuck said thats an IMPROVEMENT

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> lmao

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> boomer mindset

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> absolute boomer mindset

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> sure thing bull

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> thats all i have to say about your takes

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ignore what the market is telling you

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and now ill leave bcs this discussion is retarded

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> go ahead

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> old man yells at browser extensions

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you havent added anyhthign of value anyway

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> uhu

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> sure thing buddy

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you got it buddy

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> metamask has browser wallet so we need one toooooo! muhhh adoptionnnnn

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> argues for making monero a normie coin but calls me a boomer lmao

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> lets make a ccs to get listed on coinbase next?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> elitism wont get you anywhere

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> its not elitism

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> youre only a real monero user if you use the CLI

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> we are literally the only coin focused on digital cash

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> dont talk to me otherwise

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> other coins do the defi.smart contract thing so much better

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> wtf

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> now yorue just talking out your ass

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> go enjoy your sunday bull

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> i know im going to

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ciao

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> look at this fake monero user

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not even using a REAL wallet

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/oXLGtAKLylvboTIwLztpfKsS

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i am so much superior than this guy

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> because i am using THE REAL WALLET

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> yes that is my exactly my poisiton

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> good job bull

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not the NORMIE GUI

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> have a good one

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> 🤗

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Another lazy abundance in community i see

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sunday*

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Lmao abundance

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Got stale meme'd by autocorrect

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Anyways you guys should settle your squabble with a round of among us so we can see who is really lying

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> about 4 years late with amogus

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Keeping the memes stale, my man

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Let me go find some chuck Norris jokes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> github.com/orgs/community/discussions/156515

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> {Repost from kernal}

<e​longated:matrix.org> Ouch how will they copy code

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Racist

<r​afaelrsanches:monero.social> Do we have a Monero PT-BR IRC?

<e​veroddandeven:monero.social> Não precisa irmão 😃

<r​afaelrsanches:monero.social> Na verdade preciso sim, um colega que está perguntando, e ele não usa matrix

there is monero-pt not sure about br

on irc and it's bridged to matrix

<a​remor:matrix.org> No RPC yet