<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Now that xmr is up again maybe we can talk about haveno frontend ccs 🥴

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> im sure we could hire the old team right

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> RIGHT?

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> in my opinion, it doesn't make much sense to hire developers from the U.S. for an eventual new Haveno frontend; the price could be reduced by hiring skilled developers from western Europe, where wages are usually under €3000 / year for high-skilled jobs

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> western? you could even go lower at eastern

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> tho i agree with you. That would depend on how hard finding skilled devs ready to be paid in xmr would be tbh

3k/y in 'western' Europe? i think you're missing at least a zero there. And that'll be on the low end.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> are we understimating the supply of typescript devs?

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> 3k/month sorry

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> it's one of the highest wages

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lol yeah i read 3k/m i didn't even saw you put year

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> i've heard in the US a skilled developer can easily earn 10k/month

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> just look at monero core devs CCS rates

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> I see Boog900 full time work on Cuprate (3 months) has $55 / hour, which is almost 9700$ / month for classic office work shift (8 hours a day, five days a week). If you multiply that by 50% (income taxes) it's 4800$ / month, which is considerably higher than an average developer in Italy.

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> I estimate about 25-30€/hour could be more than enough for a developer in western Europe, which is 4000-5000€ (2000-2500€ after they pay taxes)

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> it's still a lot, considering they aren't forced to actually work 8 hours a day and considering that UI development is not the hardest job

Usual rates are 40-300€ depending on industry. 25€ would get you a student or junior at best. Not sure about webdev tho, might be lower due to sheer oversaturation of work power.

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> i live in italy, 100€ / hour (17.6k€ / mo) is a bold overstatement for software developer salary, as I said most people is under 3k€/mo

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> junior/students don't earn 4400€ / month, they earn more like < 1500€ / month

Those rates are for freelance work, which most of the time will not be a 40h week. If you are fully employed it'd be a lower income, but the cost of hiring would still be the same due to taxes, insurance etc.

<c​t:xmr.mx> salary ≠ hourly cost. The latter includes cost for the employer such as office building, IT equipment, energy and dozens of other things

<c​t:xmr.mx> if you hire from an agency, you have to pay the overhead as well, even though the deleoper gets much less

<c​t:xmr.mx> freelance work is essentially being your own agency, and not including these overhead costs would be retarded

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> income tax is 40-50% in Italy if you are self-employed with VAT, I took it in account for the 25-30€/hr figure

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> income tax is up to 43% in Italy if you are self-employed with VAT, I took it in account for the 25-30€/hr figure

<e​lias:dfri.se> If monerod gives this kind of error messages, what does that mean and what to do about it?

<e​lias:dfri.se> ```

<e​lias:dfri.se> libunbound[5768:0] error: udp connect failed: Invalid argument for [... ipv6 addr ...] port 53

<e​lias:dfri.se> ```

sounds like an error with your local DNS, not monerod. also -> #monero , this isn't a support channel.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Just hire a dev from an African nation

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Pay in beans

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 🫢

<e​lias:dfri.se> m-relay thanks, trying in the `#monero` room