<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> if you dont care the transaction history you can restore from your oldest UTXO

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If fast-syncs from 0

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Grabs the hashed from genesis, but doesnt actually sync from 0

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If it was actually syncing from 0, its due to a corrupt wallet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Cli does the same thing. Restore a wallet, enter restore height on 3mill, and it pulls hashed from 0. hashed -> restore height takes a minute or 2 depending on your internet speed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> id you set restore height to 0, it actually syncs from 0. Which takes hours

syntheticbird: sorry I just realized my node is offline. I need to sync some amount of data before I can send. Or use a dreaded remote node I guess

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> luigi111 all fine

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> luigi1111 all fine

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> plowsof have you tried restoring a wallet using 9936

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> trying to get some reliable full syncs with master to put on a graph to compare 9936 later, r4v3r23 from 0 to 3050000 i've tried , will do full soon

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> if it massively improves wallet restore over tor will add it to anonero v1.0 asap

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the craptop on wifi was 2x quicker from 0 to 3mill

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> im just trying to confirm on dedicated server

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> but what about syncing actual txs

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Exciting

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> like from actual restore height > current tup

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> like from actual restore height > current tip

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the performance boost on on OK dedicated server seems less, just trying to confirm - so many variables for a full sync

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> also why hasnt 573 been merged

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> thought it was settled

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Use an onion rpc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> so you can bottleneck the download

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/MfRQbmshHliCeWSbTGkPKMis

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i want to finish something like this sync height over time... the speed up will be more noticable on tor (is this why my craptop and wifi seen 2x quicker sync?)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I LOVE CHARTS

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Might have diminishing returns if the network speed is _too_ slow. Probably best balance is when sync time = download time

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> so that just clearnet on a dedicated server with/without showing a ~16 min improvement on 1 attempt

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> because of monero-project/monero #9875 you can query the wallets height xD

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If download time < sync time, then it downloads fast and difference should be minimal

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> if download time = sync time, then it should keep downloading while syncing, which should have next batch of blocks ready when previous batch finishes syncing

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If download time > sync time, the difference will be noticable, but still some lag between sync finish and following batch ready to sync

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This is my understanding

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ill get 1 sync on tor with/without asap

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Probably

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> clearnet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> tor

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> onion

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> after deleting the wallet cache, and opening with wallet rpc on master branch, it syncs the wallet from 3mill just because.. need to sanity check that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Did you create the wallet at height 3mill?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Might need to restore from seed with lower height

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> or maybe can change it with wallet-cli `set`

will try, meeting in 1hr55mins i think monero-project/meta #1209

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> did it have a merge conflict

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I saw 'uigi merged the other one

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> that was my own deadline

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> 573 is "the list" deadline

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> no merge conficts

looking forward to anonero updates 💪

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> testing airgapped txs now

monero.social is dying again it seems

<k​evino:tchncs.de> anonero is being developed?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> anonero is production ready afiak

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> rewritten from scratch

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> v1.0 is ready for daily use, only airgap and coin control remain

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> old apks will stay online until those last features are in

I thought our meeting would be now? I'm still waiting for it to begin, or did I get the time wrong?

Or netsplit or only on Matrix or some other problem, oh je.

I think in 17 minutes but I will miss it

1600 UTC

Thanks nioc, you are correct. I was calculating the time wrongly.

Why will you miss the meeting, good weather in your area?

prior commitments, on my out now

@xmr

Oops wrong place to use xmr bot

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 👍️

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> monero.social will die during meeting

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> good bot

meeting time

greetings monero-project/meta #1209

Hello.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> hi

hola

(didn’t know there was a meeting happening but felt rude not to respond :))

the bridge is severely delayed and broken, thank you for confirming geonic and saying hello

syntheticbird was correct

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> theres been a delay in the FCMP++ testnet launch , prev MRL meeting discussed this monero-project/meta #1208

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i launched a testnet but it broke. Will relaunch when fixed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/broke/exploded

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> (bridge gone) weeee

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> maybe monero.social gone

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Test 16:04

hello again world

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> works

damn irc -> matrix is slow af

<0​xfffc:monero.social> For me it is gone.

nvm both sides are slow af

<0​xfffc:monero.social> ( But came back it seems )

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> work here

rav you are on xmr.mx thats why

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> supportxmr.com hashes pumping miningpoolstats.stream/monero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 0xfffc @0xfffc:monero.social opened pr to fix our inefficient tx relaying. Should save upwards of 90% bandwidth on well connected nodes

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> link

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> "nano.p2pool.observer mined a 5th block" shared by via extra_evil_6666 in #p2pool-log:libera.chat

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Support has almost 50% 👀

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> monero-project/monero #9933

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Well, closer to 40

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I wonder why they left p2pool

plowsof, next time meeting should be done on minecraft

their chat system is more reliable

didn't realize that we're probably missing messages

yes things are slow

ping whoever is responsible i forgor who that is

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe the p2pool HR was supportxmr testing MM tari all along?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/releases v4.6 with merge mining donation support

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> all this shifting of hashes to various pools.. p2pool rising and falling 🤷

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> slave_blocker shared this github.com/slave-blocker/frontend-monero-pool , maybe gingeropolous could find use in it

pigeons but im not sure what the problem is

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> public rpc nodes will be thankful having a 90% bandwidth reduction (eco friendly ++)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required 👀

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> P2p*

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the entire network as a whole

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah. The extra tax on bandwidth should free up a lot of resources and lower latency

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> federation between homeservers is slow , anything else to touch on

<a​remor:matrix.org> You mean then meeting is almost over?

<a​remor:matrix.org> I think the requests made to the Haveno Cross Platform App last week have been met

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> just the delayed start is over

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a. [Haveno App (Cross Platform)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570)

<a​remor:matrix.org> s/week/meeting

monero.social is having a serious issue right now.

interesting meeting

<a​remor:matrix.org> Specifically, more up votes

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> not sure who kriptiik krip, PyXMR, Yijia Zhang are

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Pyxmr and zhang are 1 person aka Jackie* not sure who ktiptiik krip is

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> rbrunner and syntheticbird 👍️

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> related: "apparently there is a working android app ready for review: github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build" << another slop app

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> can ignore that one

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app is the only open source serious contender it seems

<a​remor:matrix.org> Saw something about MAUI a week ago. Don’t know how true it is

<a​remor:matrix.org> youtu.be/93pxUFZgS9g

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> people still maintain COBOL code 😄

<a​remor:matrix.org> Mainframes are built to last decades. Phones aren’t

<a​remor:matrix.org> An app written 3 years ago often wont compile now

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> atsamd21: are you aware of the MAUI situation linked above?

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> MAUI is fine, maybe not as big as other frameworks but they're not going to stop supporting it any time soon

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> but a random youtube comment said "nooooooooo" are you certain!

<a​remor:matrix.org> I think it’s a valid concern, as most have probably never heard of it before 2 months ago. It’s not clear how dedicated MSFT is to it

<a​remor:matrix.org> Flutter has been going strong since 2016, although created around 2014 or 2011 I think

<a​remor:matrix.org> Google has a vested interest in Flutter succeeding in order to lure away iOS developers

<a​remor:matrix.org> It also happens to be open source. Don’t know about MAUI

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> MAUI is open source

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> github.com/dotnet/maui

<a​remor:matrix.org> Cake / Monero.com, Stack Wallet, both flutter

<a​remor:matrix.org> Actually has real world usage - geeksforgeeks.org/top-apps-built-with-flutter-framework

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> atsamd21 do you have a time estimate of completing your project? have you received enough monetary support to continue?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I hate Flutter with a passion. I welcome any competition, even one using something as disgusting as C#.

and monero.social is dead again

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> I'm thinking like another month or so until completed

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s not Apples to Apples as the same platforms are not expected.

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> I'm planning to support other platforms as well but want to get android stable first

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’d be nice to make sure that’s possible. Again, I don’t think anyone has ever seen MAUI do these things before

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> and aremor has completed milestones 1 , 2 , and 3 so far? but not yet open source.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> atsamd21 looks to be about to claim bounties.monero.social/posts/126/37…n-source-android-app-for-haveno-dex (as his work is open source)

<a​remor:matrix.org> Yeah, demoed to Tuxsudo last week

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> milestones 1+2+3 where done in approx 2 months iirc?

<a​remor:matrix.org> approximately

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what would the hrly xmr rate be .. seems comparable / more than the upper rust echelon of the ccs

Has our meeting concluded or is this another bridge problem with massive delay? I'm not reading any more text communication on IRC.

Today is a strange day. I'll assume the meeting is over, so thank you very much for a good meeting and thanks especially to plowsof for the good moderation.

msvb-lab thanks for attending, the bridge is delayed

good day all

[CCS Proposals] plowsoff closed merge request #570: Haveno App (Cross Platform) repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570

In the next few weeks I will probably open a new research CCS. If the community wants to suggest protocol-level research questions that can be investigated using the tools of statistics and/or economics, please do. I will probably continue to work on techniques to prevent anti-privacy adversaries from linking transactions and users' IP addresses (i.e. network-level privacy), at least.

(when bridge returns, we can make sure this gets to matrix side Rucknium, thanks for sharing)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> for purposes of rule 4, idea = funding = wip = completed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied.

<a​remor:matrix.org> We explicitly had this conversation in December when deciding whether to end that CCS or not. It was stated that the problem was that binaries were released. That is what broke the rule.

<a​remor:matrix.org> As soon as binaries were released, it means the app was released, but no code provided.

<s​uperquantum:matrix.org> Warm greetings, peeps! ✨

<a​remor:matrix.org> Am I mistaken?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 2 months to complete milestones totalling 275xmr which is currently 94655.84 eur. im not certain if donors would be willing to allocate such funding to a haveno app while the 2 proposals in funding are not yet funded neither ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required

<a​remor:matrix.org> Written far before that exchange rate change

<a​remor:matrix.org> If I recall, Diego was in that conversation

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the ccs in idea stage had code up, but no license. When milestone was claimed, there was code provided for it, but it wasn't functional

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It was licensed permissively once notified (in idea stage)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Mm? What's going on?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> kewbit released binaries on reddit, w/o any code updates on repo, which violates rule 4 of ccs and the agpl that the app is licensed under

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Oh, lol, I see. This again.

<a​remor:matrix.org> You have forgotten about the app that was sent around for people to install?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> closing aremos proposal citing rule 4.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> aremors*

<a​remor:matrix.org> Why was that CCS closed?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So many reasons. Its a big saga. I can sing the tale if you want later.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> suppressed memory

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> As I understand there's a meeting going on?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> What's the issue aremor you don't want to FOSS?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Of which it’s very relevant

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Because he requested payout and said he'd release the code after being paid

<a​remor:matrix.org> Nope

<a​remor:matrix.org> Not the case

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Yes sorry. Catching up.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> yes, partly over (partly due to bridge delays) but the ccs proposal at hand is a haveno app

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> it was voted to ban him from ccs, and he released some new slop 12hrs after the meeting

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/570#note_30074

<a​remor:matrix.org> Then should probably close every CCS. Every single CCS has work in progress code that is being worked on.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> What is with haveno and this specific drama?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Are those ccs's licensed permissively?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I wouldn't be surprised if the community wants more scrutiny of Haven't specific projects because of past shenanigans. No thats not codified in the CCS. But yes it's relevant probably.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> aremor has completed milestones 1 2 3. will not be open sourced until the proposal is put to funding (or funded in full)

<a​remor:matrix.org> On a new project? It’s impossible to know because you don’t have the source code

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> aremor has a ccs oroposal they theyve been working on since march 1st, and has been im idea stage for over 1 month. 3 milestones are completed, or near, and there is no code available

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> meanwhile there is an open source app being developed , which will be completed in a month, (although concerns over the c# gui backend raised github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> rules say must be permissive at all stages, which obv includes idea stage

<a​remor:matrix.org> “No thats not codified in the CCS.”

<a​remor:matrix.org> Wasn’t it because the app was released without source code?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Bruh just FOSS the code. Literally so stupid to do this song and dance again and again and again.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I have no time to waste on this kind of stuff anymore. FOSS code. End of. Ez.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lool

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It WILL get merged. That kewbit got paid for milestone 1 is proof of the CCS bending over backward to keep contributors happy if they follow the basic rules like FOSSing code.

<a​remor:matrix.org> This was explicitly defined differently in December

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> FOSS code. Plz and thx.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Everyone here has been telling me it cannot be merged

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Because its not FOSS'd?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Even with no negative feedback on the proposal

<a​remor:matrix.org> No

<a​remor:matrix.org> At all

<a​remor:matrix.org> Only 30 minutes ago plowsof started this rule 4 stuff

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Honestly just need to axe Haveno at this point :P

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The way I see it is this:

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 1. If there's code, FOSS it. Then actual discussions can start.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 2. If there are other adjustments to be made (rates, community support, etc) it can be done after 1 is complete.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> aremor you cited Jackie upvoting your proposal from 2 alts as satisfying the requirements of prev meeting

<a​remor:matrix.org> Why was the CCS closed in December?

<a​remor:matrix.org> It was specifically because a binary was released without code

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> This wasn't the reason, no.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> You dorks are going to make me type it all out again, eh? Alright fine.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no way i'm online

<a​remor:matrix.org> Let me understand this…..

<a​remor:matrix.org> A developer should commit every line they write and push it in order to comply with rule 4?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> you are willing to open source your work , so rule 4 was delayed in being applied

<a​remor:matrix.org> Idk who tf jackie is. If they voted they voted

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a 12 year old using AI to communicate (currently busy in -mining)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Kewbit's milestone 1 was completed and FOSS'd and eligible for payout. But in the period before release, he did the binary shenanigans. The binary shenanigans were secondary to the real reason though. During said shenanigans it came to light he had more code he was withholding before first payout because he "didn't trust the system".

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Satellites, 30k xmr troll

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<a​remor:matrix.org> I don’t understand this sentence

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> This led to all sorts of things, but milestone did get paid out. The actual closure happened because community sentiment went so negative on the whole thing because it was a clusterfuck, that nobody wanted to continue dealing with it anymore. So it was closed.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> He ruined the "special treatment" for anyone else. Go yell at him.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> free to re-open after open sourcing

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Nobody gets special treatment anymore. FOSS code. Don't be a bitch about it. Don't move community sentiment too negative on yourself for stupid reasons, or there is indeed no chance of it going through.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The CCS has bare minimum guidelines, but the core people responsible for it listen to community sentiment for merging and decisions.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So no, the binaries thing was not the reason it was closed

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> it was a part of the whole clusterfuck, and it brought other issues to light. It played a role. But it was not the lynch pin.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> *linchpin

<a​remor:matrix.org> Where does it say it WILL merged?

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’ve been led to believe that it will not be

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> if you keep bitching about FOSSing then indeed I do amend my "WILL"

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> its this ccs idea repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570 , not seeing any strong merge sentiment so far

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The CCS is a trusted system run by a group of people and guided by community sentiment.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> if we ignore the rule 4 closure

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Five thumbs up. Two from people I recognize.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> yeah go post on reddit and twitter and whatever, drum up some support

<a​remor:matrix.org> We’re not talking about a milestone here. Nothing has been claimed

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 2 of the other 3 are 12 year old from china, the third, no idea

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2 of the 5 are from jackie, 30k xmr satellite troll

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I was just correcting your misconception that the binary thing was the reason kewbit's thing was closed.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Who is asking for special treatment?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> sigh, just FOSS the code broski

<a​remor:matrix.org> Who is even bitching?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> just FOSS the code broski

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> anyways, I've spent too much time on this. Got things to do this weekend. Sorry all.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Meeting over - plowsof's ventriloquist

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> plowsof is in charge, remember. What he says goes here (with some stipulations), or people are free to use different systems

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You can start your proposal before it gets merges, but it still has to be foss

<a​remor:matrix.org> That’s bullshit because you said something completely different in December.

<a​remor:matrix.org> The binary release is what caused everyone to go “ok, it isn’t FOSS. Close it.”

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You can even FINISH your proposal before you propose it, still must be foss at _all_ stages

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<a​remor:matrix.org> So every 2 lines then. Or every 4 lines then.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Or every 400,000 lines.

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s 100% arbitrary

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> In IDEA stage, his repo did not have a license file. And we were going to close the proposal if he didnt add one

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No i didnt

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And that rule has been there for years and years

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> aremor you are quoting ofrnxmrs opinion back to him reg that interpretation of open source at 'all seconds'

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> wrong

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I just said this was wrong

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I literally just said

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> remember where I just said?

<a​remor:matrix.org> That was fixed long before anyone thought of closing that CCS. That license file issue happened in September

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> remember where I took the time to explain? God why do I waste my time?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Exactly

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Just a FWD from rucknium

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a retroactive funding request for 275xmr closed source of work is something else, but we can agree to disagree

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a 310 retroactive funding request was merged here repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403

<a​remor:matrix.org> ☝️

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what kind of numb nuts would need to specific foss at the end of that sentence

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> specify*

<a​remor:matrix.org> Please spell out what the issue is

<a​remor:matrix.org> There’s 4 adjectives there. Which ones are problems

<a​remor:matrix.org> First of all, there is no “claim”

<a​remor:matrix.org> No one has requested payment

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Anyway, nothing to talk about

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> milestone 1 , 2 and 3 of this proposal where open source (totalling 300 xmr) for FCMP++ work repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403

<a​remor:matrix.org> lol you’re comparing me to Luke Parker?

<a​remor:matrix.org> There are regular CCS devs that are regularly funded in 2 hours every time they’re merged.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’m not one of them.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Can Luke Parker retroactively open a 300xmr CCS that is already open source?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Not many people can.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> in the idea stage. milestones 1 , 2 and 3 are closed source (totalling 275 xmr) for a Haveno App (cross platform) repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…roposals/-/merge_requests/570/diffs

<a​remor:matrix.org> lol you’re comparing me to Luke Parker?

<a​remor:matrix.org> There are regular CCS devs that are regularly funded in 2 hours every time they’re merged.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’m not one of them.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Can Luke Parker retroactively open a 300xmr CCS that is already open source? Sure

<a​remor:matrix.org> Not many people can.

<a​remor:matrix.org> The very fact that I’m NOT Luke Parker is why it’s not merged already

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i could compare rates? whats your hourly rate for haveno app work?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Ok. Will do. But first, I want a question answered.

<a​remor:matrix.org> What is the reason for closing the proposal? I’m asking again because this conversation has gone all over the place. I want to make sure I’m not confused.

<a​remor:matrix.org> ☝️

<a​remor:matrix.org> ☝️

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rule 4

<a​remor:matrix.org> ☝️

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No, its not merged because

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. Rule 4

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Lack of support

<a​remor:matrix.org> ☝️

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> so hourly rates. 275 xmr completed in 2 months , lets figure it out

<a​remor:matrix.org> Wait wait wait wait while a reason is invented

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Could have all the support in the world, rule 4 makes the ccs ineligible for discussion beyond the first time being told about it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Again, nothing to discuss anymore. Foss it before reopening the proposal, or try kuno etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Anything else is noise

<a​remor:matrix.org> There has been no claim for money anywhere so you can stop with this bullshit

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ok ill stop, apologies for asking

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ☝️

<a​remor:matrix.org> Just from excuse to excuse. Which is it? It should be retroactive? It shouldn’t be retroactive? It’s rule 4. On wait, devs do write code in their computers….. oh wait! What’s your hourly rate?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Which is it?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Going to try every excuse in the book? Make up your mind

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s rule 4! Oh wait….. how does anyone write code?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Just jump from excuse to excuse. Which is it? It should be retroactive? It shouldn’t be retroactive? It’s rule 4. On wait, devs do write code in their computers….. oh wait! What’s your hourly rate?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Which is it?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You can finish the work before opening the merge request

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’m sad to see this type of bullshit come out of you all. Literally making up rules on the fly…. for what purpose?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> and of course its not required to commit every change and upload every commit as soon as they are made. Youre just complaining to complain

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Foss the code or fkoff, fkn wasting months of your own time

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the rules havent changed in many years

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> >- I've been in this community since 2019 and now have the free time to contribute code. I'm NorrinRadd, aka Aremor, aka Blario.

<a​remor:matrix.org> If you came up with a legitimate reason, it would be respected. As it has been respected week after week discussing this. But this bullshit about it’s not FOSS is disgusting plowsof

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> welcome to the community aremor

<a​remor:matrix.org> An app in development is cancelled because ….. you need an excuse?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Fucking disgusting

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> open source your retroactive funding request and click 're-open merge request' , sickening !

<a​remor:matrix.org> Thanks

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No excuse will work

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the rule is a not up for negotiation beyond the definition of permissive (which implies MIT/BSD etc, but we actually allow copyleft)

<a​remor:matrix.org> ofrnAI: no one is listening to you. According to you, the binary was the issue in December. Now you change your tone. Nothing you say has credibility anymore

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You were told, iirc, at at least 1 meeting prior to this one that the code needs to be foss'd. It wasnt fossed. End of story

<a​remor:matrix.org> More lies from you. We discussed the App Store. Keep making up shit. It’s wonderful

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> According to me? Are you smoking crack?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The logs are available bro

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> At last meeting

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yeah

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and of course monero.social had to die during popcorn time

<a​remor:matrix.org> At least the bullshit excuses stopped

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> m-relay why are you not working

<a​remor:matrix.org> 😂😂😂😂 so what is it?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Can’t say?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Might you been vomiting bullshit?

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s not every line 1.

<a​remor:matrix.org> No, it’s not every 2 lines?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Then wtf is it? Where do you want to draw this arbitrary line in the sand?

<a​remor:matrix.org> What lie can you come up with?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bro big mad that we wont make exception for him

<a​remor:matrix.org> ⏰

<a​remor:matrix.org> Waiting for this wonderful lie that explains what’s the maximum amount of code a developer is allowed to write

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> go cry somewhere else

<a​remor:matrix.org> Every single developer ever since computers began writes code. There’s no getting around that.

<a​remor:matrix.org> So I really want to see what this arbitrary definition is

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I mean, your whining has nothing to do with this room

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You were told to foss it, chose not to, ans proposal was closed. End of chapter/story

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm truly sorry for having supported this proposal. As member of the Monero circle and Monerochan priest, I will now proceed to suicide in order to expel my sins.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Keep lying to yourself

<a​remor:matrix.org> “Chose not”

<a​remor:matrix.org> “Was told”

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> how much needs to be foss? How much work can be done in private? All subjective, but the answer definitively not "all of it"

<a​remor:matrix.org> Then all new projects that were experimented in private are null and void

<a​remor:matrix.org> “Chose not to”

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If you're not going to release the source code under a permissive* license, then the chance of being merged a somewhere between 0 and 0. Thanks for understanding

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If you're not going to release the source code under a permissive* license, then the chance of being merged is somewhere between 0 and 0. Thanks for understanding

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I've less frustration so let me rephrase clearly the conclusion of the meeting:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 1. You cannot postulate to CCS if you plan on not FOSS your project.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 2. Your project must be FOSS before any of its milestones are completed.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> In your case what is concerning is that:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 1. We don't understand if you want to keep it closed source.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 2. Even if you do want to FOSS it, you have completed milestones of your CCS (even if still unmerged) in a closed source manner, which beyond the rules, is an ethical concern for donors.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Your option:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 1. Get to another platform.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 2. Foss your current work, remove the already completed milestones and reopen your proposal to be funded for the remaining work.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> remove the already completed milestones = removing them from the new proposal

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Literally happened to kewbit

<a​remor:matrix.org> What was the demand?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Fucking tyranny

<a​remor:matrix.org> Govt says give me taxes and there bad. But CCS says “give me your work or your proposal included” and that’s A-Okay

<a​remor:matrix.org> Govt says give me taxes and that’s bad. But CCS says “give me your work or your proposal included” and that’s A-Okay

<a​remor:matrix.org> Where did I ever say it would not be open source??????

<a​remor:matrix.org> The entire point of CCS is to pay people to open source stuff

<a​remor:matrix.org> If it was in a releasable state right now, I would push it.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I've less frustration so let me rephrase clearly the conclusion of the meeting:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. You cannot postulate to CCS if your project is not FOSS.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Your project must be FOSS at all stages, including idea stage.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> In your case what is concerning is that:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. We don't understand if you want to keep it closed source.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Even if you do want to FOSS it, you have completed milestones of your CCS (even if still unmerged) in a closed source manner, which beyond the rules, is an ethical concern for donors.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Your option:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fixed m-reIay

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats incorrect. The point of ccs is, in part, to crowdfund permissive work

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> maybe my fault

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I did not understand

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The CCS will wait for this releasable state to be publicized under permissive license

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not "how we bribe closed source projects into fossing".

<a​remor:matrix.org> There’s no one arguing one semantics. It’s clear what CCS does

<a​remor:matrix.org> This gun to the head to release BEFORE merge is COMPLETELY NEW TO ME

<a​remor:matrix.org> There’s no point arguing one semantics. It’s clear what CCS does

<a​remor:matrix.org> There’s no point arguing over semantics. It’s clear what CCS does

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Well its not new at all

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah its really not new at all

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm the first to criticize the state of the CCS but you really just put yourself into a misconception

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s not only you. Diego said something similar. There seem to be a lot of that confusion going around.

<a​remor:matrix.org> How did it get to this point, where I’m being blackmailed into action???? Why?????

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Your option:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. Get to another platform.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Foss your current work and reopen your proposal

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^^^

<a​remor:matrix.org> No one claimed any payment. This is a MR!!!!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> You can express all the indignation you want and we're pretty patient but if you continue like such you may piss off people responsible to merge your new proposal, if you ever planned on doing one

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> alright

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> let's suppose you wanted to FOSS your work when it got merge

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> even then it poses ethical issues

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> because you have completed works that we were not able to verify, and the donors will start to send money for a text they have saw on the CCS website. Imagine that you push a content that is different than the one you claimed. Donors are losing, you are losing, CCS is losing.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Who else has experienced this?

<a​remor:matrix.org> How did I? Because I started work???? Working is bad!??????

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’m at a loss. It’s supposed to get open sourced right?

<a​remor:matrix.org> No one is asking anyone to verify it!

<a​remor:matrix.org> There is no claim for payment!

<a​remor:matrix.org> If I push something different from what’s claimed, that’s what peer review is for

<a​remor:matrix.org> We’re not to that stage. Nothing has been claimed.

<a​remor:matrix.org> This is the agreement is CCS. What is there to “supppose” about it ?!

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The agreement is that it is fossd at all stages

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Not all stages (except for idea)"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not "all stages (except for idea)"

<b​oog900:monero.social> aremor: what is the worry with open sourcing now?

<b​oog900:monero.social> if you are worried about being scammed that can happen after you are moved to funding anyway.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Waits to find out who else was blackmailed

<a​remor:matrix.org> ???

<a​remor:matrix.org> Honestly nothing. I have comments to myself all over the place….. lots of code commented out. Lots of bugs. A class that was not singleton, then singleton, and now not being used as a singleton….

<a​remor:matrix.org> A lot of shit like that

<a​remor:matrix.org> Open source it and them have ofrnxmr commenting for days “hahahahaha look at this” when it could have been cleaned up beforehand

<a​remor:matrix.org> Open source it and then have ofrnxmr commenting for days “hahahahaha look at this” when it could have been cleaned up beforehand

<a​remor:matrix.org> Never said anything like that

<a​remor:matrix.org> Now the flip question is, why am I being extorted to do so before merging???

<a​remor:matrix.org> Because i said that i made progress, is why I’m being extorted???

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hilarious comparison. Government says pay taxes or we'll put you in jail and take your freedom. CCS says play by our rules or feel free to use a different system.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> You can keep this type of cringe indignation for yourself

<a​remor:matrix.org> Govt says give me taxes and that’s bad. But CCS says “give me your work or your proposal closed” and that’s A-Okay

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app if you want a FOSS haveno app in development

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Freedom of speech and movement doesn't mean you can enter my property and disparage me, piss on my carpet, and threaten my family. I will eject you from my property with force, and your rights will not have been violated.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The freedom of one end at the door of someone else's freedom

<b​oog900:monero.social> So clean it up and come back?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Can you tell me why, to my knowledge, I’m the only person that has had these demands placed on them?

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’ve never seen CCS do this before

<b​oog900:monero.social> because it's the best way of showing your work, it's literally the prototype version

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> We're like 5 people telling you it's always been like this and still you pretend like you are being gaslighted somehow. Just admit you made a misconception, in the current state of things this is annoying but we can still discuss your next proposal.

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> whats the difference between opensourcing upon merge vs starting to code openly after merge?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> milestone is the key here

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> meaning?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> milestones has been completed before it got open source

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s been 2 hours.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Time elapsed already?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I would love to explain in details but monero.social take 20 sec to send a message

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> oh fuck that

<b​oog900:monero.social> IMHO I do think this is a weird requirement to have. What if next week someone comes along `romera` and makes a proposal for a haveno app and "does the work after merging"

<a​remor:matrix.org> Ok. I missed that… that a published prototype was a requirement or I’d be closed because of it. Can you show me that rule?

<a​remor:matrix.org> But you can’t tell me where this happened before

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Before* merge, not upon

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not up for discussion if a wip isnt foss at the time of the discussion

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> before merge is ridiculous

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> For a project that has been fraught with delays, fraudsters, drama, and nonsense, the community wanting a higher standard before more pointless merges and drama is understandable.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No I can't because everyone until now have read the rules and respected this requirement.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Literally kewbit

<b​oog900:monero.social> most proposals have no work before merge aremor seems to be being punished for starting early.

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> thats how i saw it

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> until they said milestones

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you cant be memrged and closed source

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm actually confused why people don't realize this. Haveno has had one drama after another for years. We get to a point as a community where extra assurances really go a long way to make sure we're not wasting even more time and money.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm not a gnu fanatic. I see some interest in keeping your work closed source until you secure donations honestly

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> the milestone being completed makes me uncomfortable tho

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And if someone complains about it, it immediately signals there's only more drama waiting for us.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Show me where unreleased code was demanded before merge

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> add condition: if merged, must open source immediately

<b​oog900:monero.social> My opinion is:

<b​oog900:monero.social> - This is a weird requirement

<b​oog900:monero.social> - aremor should do it anyway

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> it would relaxing rule 4 in this case, not adding a condition

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> otherwise some one who hasnt even started work is some how better off ?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Are you taking a moral, "its the principle" stand here at this point?

<a​remor:matrix.org> It seems to me that this type of requirement has NEVER been made before

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> i disagree totally with open sourcing upon claiming milestone

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> progress has to be made in the open

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the code was released, but was not fossd

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> in this age of AI slop, the urge to open source after the fact is not appealing. especially for haveno apps

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Someone who started work and shows: "hey guys here's the repo, work has started. Hopefully this can be merged soon"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> vs "hey guys heres an idea i have"?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Next community meeting discussion: "we should merge. He's literally done all this work. Look here's the repo. Its of good quality too. Let's get this guy funded!"

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> does CCS require work to have already begun on the proposal?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> For me I'm fine with the idea of keeping closed source, and I would be hypocrite to say otherwise since thats what i planned with my overhaul CCS website. I'm just uncomfortable with the majority of the milestones being completed in close source manner. If one release the code after merging and the milestones do not correspond to the claims, then the CCS will have to choose betwee<clipped messa

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> n wasting the work or negotiate OP on adapting the CCS claims, which would disrespect the donors. Maybe I'm just making movies in my head, if there is a solution to this I'm all for relaxing rule 4

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Either works.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> No, but it pretty much always helps your case to get funded.

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> right, so they should have same aount of red tape

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> make merge conditional on opensourcing (if community otherwise agrees to the proposal)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> "negotiate with OP" - reads backlog

<a​remor:matrix.org> Everyone gets that. But to arbitrary cancel someone’s work without prior stating that “you’ll be closed if you start work early” is not reasonable.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Yes, checks need to be made. My understanding is, that’s why all milestone completions are reviewed.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Greatly

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> wdym?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Can you elaborate? Specifically, what is the concern?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Can I somehow receive ɱ without code?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ^^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> my concern is explained here

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> there is a scenario that poses challenges for the CCS

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> there is a scenario that poses challenges for the CCS coordinator and community

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> boog900 aremor isnt being punished for starting early. Was told to foss a long time ago, and kept working w/o fossing

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Which is fine, but you cant come to ccs with a closes source project and ask for it to be merged

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Lel, we really need to outline this in the rules, eh?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> "If any code is completed before merge into funding required, said work needs to be open-source."

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Which you will say just incentivizes people to not start until merge. True.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> being "I've completed the majority of my milestones in close source, then release after merging and OH! It's not what I claim it was!" And then CCS have to decide on if they should reject the work or adapt the CCS original purpose to OP

<a​remor:matrix.org> No. I’m asking for fairness. I have never seen anyone have this demand placed on them before

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fcmp++ first ccs by kaya is an example of working in private before approaching. Fossing at idea stage and being funded retroactively.

<a​remor:matrix.org> My git history is in tact

<b​oog900:monero.social> I agree but almost all CCSs have no code when starting, so making someone give up their work before any fund raising is not great IMO.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Why would it? We have no rule against retroactive funding.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> They are not giving up their work. They are just asking for the completed milestones that has been done in close source to be dropped from the proposal.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> If he do that he can reopen his CCS proposal.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> One could also argue that while it's inefficient, he was took into a misconception to begin with

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rolling core dev ccs's have no code, but theu have history.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Most "projects" that are merged DO have code

<a​remor:matrix.org> So it’s not a requirement….

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> starting work before merge is not a requirement, correct

<a​remor:matrix.org> IMO, if the work does not match the claims, then it’s no payment. End of story. Isn’t this how it always works??

<a​remor:matrix.org> Until the requirements are met, it’s no payment

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Community sentiment is a big factor in merge. If community sentiment is such that they want to see the code, then it, in effect, becomes a requirement for the proposal in question.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Then what happens to the donors money??

<b​oog900:monero.social> ngl I really don't know the details of this, from what I understand the work is "done" which is different as we get all the work upfront.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> People always hard quoting the rules acting like the community sentiment doesn't play a huge role in the CCS.

<b​oog900:monero.social> FWIW I don't think the milestones should be marked as "completed" until we see code

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So to answer this bluntly. In general, no. For you atm, yes. :)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> They are not officially marked as completed, it's just that aremor claimed in chat to have completed them

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> which "administratively" make zero difference

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sorry if this doesn't seem fair to you. Monero is a community project, and core runs the CCS in such a way that it gives big credence to the community.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not done, its been getting completed steadily while the ccs has been in limbo. Should have been fossed on a long time ago, and then there would probably be actual support for merging

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Aremor's personal claims of completing m1,2,3 etc are not verified.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> hell, ffs woodser posted ai slop yestersay

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> > apparently there is a working android app ready for review: github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> woodser's message on haveno development room

<a​remor:matrix.org> That is not already in the rules somewhere? I thought I read it. Will be repurposed for a similar effort, or something like that.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Only if you do not try to negotiate with CCS and try not to argue that it would be wasting all the work. I think it's easy to see how someone could use this narrative to say "my precious months of work has been wasted by this greedy CCS that do not want to recognize that needs can change during development!".

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> And since you have been merged, there is money and donor trust on the table

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> it's not an easy challenge for CCS

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> so the better is to not put ourself in this situation to begin with IMO

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Donated to generalfund

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> luigi1111 needs new vacations

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i did not ping him i swear

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> there is also path where someone else can take over the ccs, but that rarely (if ever) works

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Acceptxmr, xmrsigner, monero integration, **haveno**, outreach, and at least a few more ccs's come to mind as failed takeovers

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> It's very easy to say "CCS can reject malicious actors". But authority is never the single solution to all problems. And I think it must be ackowleged that avoiding conflicts is the most sensible solution

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> everything is a balance as always. OP needs to be respected, donors needs to be respected.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> all I know is last time I went with the "they have a technical point on the rules, so we should err on payout" with kewbit, and it ended up being the wrong decision, despite being technically right

<a​remor:matrix.org> This seems like punishing me for some unwarranted suspicions.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I wrote the proposal. Why could I not do what I say I’m going to do.

<a​remor:matrix.org> And how could I expect payment for completing the agreement.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I have no idea where this is coming from.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> learning to listen to the gut here, and the gut says that anyone that ignores the community sentiment aspect to grandstand on the "rules as written" is not someone I'm inclined to trust, which makes me want to see the code even more

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the problem there, diego, is that the code was pure garbage

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Why couldn't you just do something else either?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> You are anonymous, we don't know you.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> we used to talk to kewbit hours on end too

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Right. And the reason we don't have rules on "code quality" written into the CCS, is because the "community sentiment" aspect is supposed to encompass that. We have enough good devs here to be able to sus that stuff out.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So kewbit being paid out, ignored the "community sentiment: aspect. And it was wrong.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> literal flashbacks going on here

<a​remor:matrix.org> This is not a payout.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I understand this. Doesn't help the trust sentiment here though.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> kewbit did a good job marketing. Everyone thought thay someone else had ok'd the code

<a​remor:matrix.org> This seems like punishing me for some unwarranted suspicions.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I wrote the proposal. Why could I not do what I say I’m going to do.

<a​remor:matrix.org> And how could I expect payment for not completing the agreement.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I have no idea where this is coming from.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> #showcode

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> and maybe rates too

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> sadly, we can't even begin to get into the other aspects to be adjusted in the proposal yet. :)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He exposed that weren't paying attention and he even tried to double-down and post even worse slop to get a further payout

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But yes, it's worth pointing out that #showcode doesn't guarantee merge. There may be other adjustments to be made. But #showcode is a prereq for all of those discussions here

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I was about to mention that this "drama" is also distracting from other parts of the proposal, such as actual support

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It's very very simple.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 1. Community sentiment plays a big role in merge (and payout)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 2. Revealing you have code you're withholding tanks community sentiment.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> and the fact that a haveno app will be developed sooner rather than later github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So I know you'll say: "so I should have kept my mouth shut then?"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> yeah probably, if you didn't want to tank community sentiment

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> this discussion is trending towards "i showed code, now merge!"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> let me amend the above

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So I know you'll say: "so I should have kept my mouth shut then?"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> If you planned on not FOSSing the code until you get what you want, then yes you should have kept your mouth shut

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> or you could have INCREASED community sentiment by saying "look here's code, it's foss, it's good quality, plz merge"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> learn to play the game, people

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> is this proof of your work aremor? github.com/NorrinRadd/temp-storage some zipped thing?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The only reason people reveal they are making progress and completing milestones is to build social credit and increase chance of merge. Remember you are doing so in a FOSS community. You don't get the social credit when you don't FOSS the code too. ;)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> if I am contributing to this, I'm sorry. I'm merely trying to say that trying to earn points for doing work ahead of time is a valid way to do things, but you gotta commit to the FOSS bit to really get those points

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> otherwise it turns into this

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Alternatively you can work ahead absolutely. But don't try to claim the community cred for doing so unless you're willing to FOSS

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ah your actual temp-file-storage ignore

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> there is a video of your supposedly prototype app on this repo btw

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> github.com/NorrinRadd/temp-storage/…fs/heads/main/docs/HavenoMobile.mov

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nah, its just reminiscent to kewbit. During the noise, everyone forgot to check the signal

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what happened with this PR bitcoin/bitcoin #26356

<a​remor:matrix.org> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

<a​remor:matrix.org> 2 months old

<b​oog900:monero.social> Also pull up my other thing where I said you should open source anyway

<a​remor:matrix.org> They’re already telling me that that won’t help

<b​oog900:monero.social> From what I see you are doing this out of principal rather than any actual worry, which is just annoying.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> literally everyone is telling you it will only help your case. It won't guarantee a merge if there's other issues (I understand there are some concerns about rates), but it will ONLY help your case

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> since right now you have no case and your proposal is dead in the water :)

<b​oog900:monero.social> Yes it wont be insta merged but it will open the discussion back up

<a​remor:matrix.org> And I’m apparently the first person this has ever happened to. Through no real fact of my own?

<a​remor:matrix.org> And I’m apparently the first person this has ever happened to. Through no real fault of my own?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> You're only embarrassing yourself, you're dangerously near the line of zero credibility

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Accept the situation and start to think about whats next.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I don’t see it that way. It’s already cancelled. The worst of it, there’s nothing being lost afterward.

<a​remor:matrix.org> And literally being told they giving up my work won’t matter

<b​oog900:monero.social> selective reading wont help your case.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Nothing will help the case

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ok we need to start from the top - everyone who has commented on this , get back here

<b​oog900:monero.social> open sourcing 🚀

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> LMAO

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I love how plowsof said get back here and I could atsamd21 read receipts running the screen

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> lol that was a long read

<a​remor:matrix.org> Community sentiment seemed good to me. 4 distinct upvotes and no downvotes.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Then suddenly, closed out of nowhere.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It seemed like it was closed during the meeting. Where these things were discussed. And sentiment was decreasing.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> "Out of nowhere" is a brain dead take.

<a​remor:matrix.org> When it was closed, it seemed unilaterally by plowsof

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Either way, continue yowling about it here if you'd like. I'm off. Best of luck.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Literally out of nowhere. From zero negative feedback, to closed.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> sorry that i did that

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> plowsof

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> you have won the argument

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> time to cut your belly with the sacred sword

<a​remor:matrix.org> Good. You can fix it by re-opening it

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'll just say here for the record that aremor posted a 2 months old video of of its haveno application which showcase macOS desktop with a direct recording of his iphone. I will also say here for the record that by inspecting the very last media file sent by kewbit in this very channel, the border of its windows and his cursor corresponded to the one of macOS.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Maybe any entity draw any conclusions that they want

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I do not support any conclusion whatsoever.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> May these elements be used somewhat in the future or not, they are recorded here for posterity.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> lmao

<j​effro256:monero.social> aremor: I am confused. Why not open source it now according to the rules if you were going to do it anyways to get paid ?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Tldr convo?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> jeffro256:

<a​remor:matrix.org> I was literally about to and ofrnxmr, plowsof, and Diego started talking about it’s not going to matter

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ^

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s clear to me that the goalposts are going to continue to be moved further and further back

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> "Not going to matter" = not instant merge

<a​remor:matrix.org> The rate was not mentioned one time before plowsof closed the proposal

<a​remor:matrix.org> All of a sudden the rate is a concern

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Also remember when I said it would literally only help you case?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Remember?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i don't remember

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> fuck wrong alt

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Remember?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Remember?

<a​remor:matrix.org> After I release everything, then what?

<a​remor:matrix.org> “No, we need market graphs”

<a​remor:matrix.org> “Nope, I want animations”

<a​remor:matrix.org> There’s no telling where it’s going to end.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Remember?

<j​effro256:monero.social> It seems like the goal posts aren't moving , the rules are just being enforced in your case ..

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Remember?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not a subject if the proposal isnt eligible for merge anyway

is bridge broken or smth

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> this is ridiculous

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Gibbs CCS rule says all work is permissive while working on iy

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm more patient than ofrnxmr yet It's over

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Aloha haveno

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> aremor, go whine elsewhere

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no one fucking care, you've been explained a hundred time, you are just acting in bad faith

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Patient like a doctors patient /s

<j​effro256:monero.social> Its important to note that different people in the community are different people and will ask different questions . I could be wrong, but none of those are blockers for the CCS at the moment, right ? Just the fact that you haven't open sourced your work

<a​remor:matrix.org> All of a sudden today, I have to release everything or the proposal is closed.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Then Plowsof says the rate is wrong AFTER they already closed the proposal.

<a​remor:matrix.org> The rules are changing as we watch.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Who do you know that was demanded they release everything on their computer before being merged before?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> This is was the same issue with kewbit

<3​21bob321:monero.social> On the exact CSS

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The completion of the majority of the milestones in close source and the non-FOSS release of it before merge is a blocker for the proposal in its current form. He needs to modify it and reopen it

<j​effro256:monero.social> No one is demanding you "release everything on your computer" , just that you release the work relevant to your CCS proposal, as is stated in the rules. What is wrong with doing that?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Honestly him saying that I said the opposite of what I actually said is the end for me. Self fulfilling prophecy. Indeed it doesn't matter anymore if he amends as far as im concerned. I'd vote no.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> A person without basic reading comprehension on what im saying shouldn't be working on this stuff. :)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> same

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> don't trust him

<j​effro256:monero.social> It doesn't inspire confidence

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> wdym -> "negotiate with the OP"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> brother

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> He's been doing this for hours

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> there is no rule 4 , this is just part of the interview process

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Proposal

<3​21bob321:monero.social> 4. All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> could you ask me that like 2 hours before

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the assessment was the reaction

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 2 hours ago*

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Gibbs rule ^

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It's a disciple from the church of kewbit. He did this exact thing with similar levels of abysmal reading comprehension (at best) or manipulation (at worst)

<a​remor:matrix.org> Kewbit released a closed source app.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’m being extorted for my WIP.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Someone has seen your code?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Oh no you are being extorted

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> bro needs to fucking reddit post about it

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> this is outrageous

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> without warning i closed your proposal after my attempt to extort the source was denied. i then said your rates where wrong.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Cause closed source and not showing is the same

<a​remor:matrix.org> Show me where it has been released!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Are you retarded?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Nothing is wrong with that. But it’s clear that’s not going to be the end of the extortion

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No name calling

<3​21bob321:monero.social> We have another playing the victim, like qtip

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> OH nvm

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah thats my bad

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I meant "non FOSS-release", not "non-FOSS release"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> two different meaning

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> how can devs be expected to upload source after ctrl+s, we expect them to live stream their every move? this is ridiculous!!!!!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Proposal

<3​21bob321:monero.social> 4. All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Do you comply with this rule, that you agreed to when getting the proposal ?

<a​remor:matrix.org> No

<3​21bob321:monero.social> So trust me bruh ?

<b​oog900:monero.social> aremor: you used AI didn't you?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bro needs a dictionary

<3​21bob321:monero.social> There is no rule against skynet AI yet

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> aremor lets keep this discussion going for days

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> its great for your cause

<3​21bob321:monero.social> What happens if we pay and code doesn't work

<a​remor:matrix.org> 3 months for AI. I’d need a refund

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Rug pull ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ai.png

<a​remor:matrix.org> Why would you pay?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Your claiming milestone ?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> this is not a payment request how dare you mention pay!!!!

<b​oog900:monero.social> aremor: what do you gain by going to funding now before you open source

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> this is not a payment request!!!!

<b​oog900:monero.social> (apart from hiding the AI usage a bit longer)

<a​remor:matrix.org> Where? Show me

<a​remor:matrix.org> Not payment of a milestone

<3​21bob321:monero.social> That's why I asked tldr

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its a request for payment from donors to the ccs wallet

<a​remor:matrix.org> It tells me that the project is moving forward

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> aremor literally 3 microsecond after proposal is funded:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> "so as i have said ive already completed milestone 1, 2 ,3. awaiting payment pretty please"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Merging IS a payment request

<b​oog900:monero.social> Why do you need to be told that?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> So its proposal moving to funding ?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Pay me with what? Monopoly bucks?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I propose we merge his proposal and fund him with monero testnet

<b​oog900:monero.social> it makes no sense why you need to know the project is moving forward if you are not scared of being scammed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its closed now, due to rule 4

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I need a tiktok version of this issue

<a​remor:matrix.org> If the project is not moving forward, I should be doing something else with my time

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah my attention span is like 300 milliseconds

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lot to process

<j​effro256:monero.social> You obviously didn't think so when you started work preemptively

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> we can wait for github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app 🤷

<b​oog900:monero.social> can you ask the AI to read the chat log and give a good reply please and thanks

<j​effro256:monero.social> What changed since then ?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Where is this word “scam” coming from?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> CCS acknowledge that you can work preemptively during FUNDING

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> not before MERGING.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Only person I know used that before shall not be named

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> I think we should fund github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build

<b​oog900:monero.social> why else would you need assurances the CCS is moving forward

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> honesty is the best policy, A* for nobbydoo80

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> is the "and Claude" what i think it is ?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Correct. Today has been a shocker. I’m amazed.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> yes :D

<a​tsamd21:matrix.org> yes lol

<a​remor:matrix.org> Where?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Because merger is not guaranteed

<b​oog900:monero.social> tbf I would be pretty confused too if I decided to only read half the chat

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm sorry chat btw I just remember the wise word of someone else and "r*tard" is not a nice word at all.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Rust will fix this

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’ve never seen CCS demand work before merging before. Have you?

<b​oog900:monero.social> not guaranteed vs never going to happen. By holding the code you are making your situation worse

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Lmao

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You know qtip showed some code first

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> qtip was better

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> do better

<3​21bob321:monero.social> There is the bar

<b​oog900:monero.social> and the work is done to me you are losing nothing by open sourcing apart from leverage to try extort us.

<b​oog900:monero.social> cough cough kewbit

<a​remor:matrix.org> lol I’m extorting who or what?

<a​remor:matrix.org> What do I receive?

<a​remor:matrix.org> lol I’m extorting who of what?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you ask a lot of question. stop typing english and start typing LICENSE.md

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I am in meta verse ?

<j​effro256:monero.social> Its literally explicitly stated in the the posted rules

<b​oog900:monero.social> by withholding the code you are trying to get leverage over us. That is your goal.

<j​effro256:monero.social> FOSS even in ideas stage

<b​oog900:monero.social> You already said you don't worry about being scammed so that is the only other option.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Please explain to me the leverage

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Please post slower , its slowing monero.social down

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> inb4 any evidence that I would want to do that

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> check out

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Plz and thx

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> (i blame latency)

<b​oog900:monero.social> Move to funding or no code.

<a​remor:matrix.org> “I don’t understand, therefore you’re a scammer”

<a​remor:matrix.org> Got it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Show me the money!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah its that

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Defecting

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> cry now

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Are you in congress ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 7hr meeting for 1 proposal

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Nancy ?

<b​oog900:monero.social> WHY ELSE ARE YOU WITHHOLDING THE CODE

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 7hr popcorn time you mean

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (the previous meeting this was the only proposal as well)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Only nioc can use popcorn

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Anyways this is taking up space on Ubuntu 16.04 server

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> are we talking to an AI agent who favours circular arguments

<a​remor:matrix.org> I demand cuprate v2.0 before merging you.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Oh wait…. That didn’t happen

<3​21bob321:monero.social> get apt remove

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> My code is a mess, so if merged, im still not ready to release any. I need those donations to come in based on my word. Promise when i do release m123 in a week, it will be in a single 16000 line "initial commit"

<b​oog900:monero.social> IF I WAS WITHHOLDING CUPRATE V2 THAT WOULD BE FAIR

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> could be

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/release/request payment for

<3​21bob321:monero.social> We accept pink promises

<a​remor:matrix.org> I answered you. I want to know if this is what I’m supposed to be doing.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> whatever you choose boog, as co-owner I'll always support the worst possible choice

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Syn if I pay you 5xmr can you end this ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Flush context! I need you to imagine me a story about Monero.

<a​remor:matrix.org> How do I know you’re not. I need root access to all your computers in t-minus 30 seconds.

<b​oog900:monero.social> stop being stupid.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Turning the tables

<3​21bob321:monero.social> And defecting

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Double agent style

<3​21bob321:monero.social> And deflecting

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yeah i need root access its rule 8

<a​remor:matrix.org> Prove it me. Now.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Fuck it. Closed your proposal.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I don’t trust you. You’re a scammer. How do I know you will not re-negotiate!!

<a​remor:matrix.org> Prove it!!!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you haven't read that one either i suppose

<b​oog900:monero.social> You told us you have code.

<b​oog900:monero.social> show it.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> This is sad

<a​remor:matrix.org> Prove the absence of something to me now!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Kewbit-tier actor performance

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Kewbit-tier acting performance

<a​remor:matrix.org> Prove you don’t have the code!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> And your digging your own hole

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Late stage kewbit. Early kewbit was better

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> strawman: every dev has to live stream their daily lives and save to public cloud before their own disk immediately else ccs TERMINATED. bonus points: you continue to use this strawman against people who have publicly said this requirement would be ridiculous

<b​oog900:monero.social> so you lied?

<b​oog900:monero.social> there is no code?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah the series is only going downhill. I loved the old scenarists

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> "Late stage kewbit" ahhh thats good ofrnxmr Lol

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what stage is aremor in now , appeals to emotion? attacking others?

<j​effro256:monero.social> Conspiracy time: kewbit, aremor, et al are glowies or glowie bots whose sole purpose is to DoS meaningful workgroup discussion akin to Operation CHAOS en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS

<3​21bob321:monero.social> There is bar you need to reach

<b​oog900:monero.social> guys I do have to say we should give ourselves a pat on the back as a community, no funds got given away this time

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Well in prime target NSA was watching all the mathematicians

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> There will be a time in the future where cryptographic keys will be the only way for us humans to notate who is really humans and when AI will be too advanced anyone losing their keys will not able to prove they are humans anymore

<3​21bob321:monero.social> He predicted prime nuumbers

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> "I just try and stay healthy enough to see the next haveno APP proposal"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) domestic espionage project targeting American citizens

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> interesting.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm sure this is legal

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Yest

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> We will get GTA VI before Haveno app

<3​21bob321:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> VII

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Didnt we get vi? Or was that just a trailer

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> GTA V exist. GTA VI isn't release yet

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Which one was Miami ?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> That's the last one I played

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> both

<j​effro256:monero.social> Idk but the Chicago one was Pope XIV

<3​21bob321:monero.social> en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto:_Vice_City

<3​21bob321:monero.social> This

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> #monero-games channels when?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> #monero-payout-panic channel when?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> it always turns into someone hosting a minecraft server with a monero wallet / casino and rug pulling

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Day 0 of monero drama

<j​effro256:monero.social> It's sad to see that it's sort of common now to see big modpacks on Curseforge etc with microtransactions added in by default

<j​effro256:monero.social> The prices are absolutely atrocious too

<j​effro256:monero.social> Though I do remember that there have been paid servers since forever, so...

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> POV you misclick of OBHosting button instead of multiplayer

<j​effro256:monero.social> Also before sponge was naturally obtainable, there used to be servers where the in-game currency was sponge. You could buy sponge from the server for real USD and use it in-game to get diamonds/resources, custom effects potions, and cosmetics

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> literally bukkit era

<j​effro256:monero.social> Shoot I think it was this plugin : dev.bukkit.org/projects/vault

<j​effro256:monero.social> > Created Oct 11, 2011

i don't know much about MC, i just stand near people and watch them doing things and i don't talk

<j​effro256:monero.social> Sorry I'll take this to off-topic my b

<a​remor:matrix.org> I’m still waiting for someone to clarify what the requirement is this. How much thinking is too much?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Pitiful

is the meeting still going on? Does it get into the Guinness book?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nioc, we were waiting for you

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You stepped out just before the meeting, but a meeting isnt a meeting is nioc isn't readind

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You lost most of your support today, and gained a few nacks. So rip

I ain't reading the scrollback, sorry

<a​remor:matrix.org> Support meant nothing. It was closed with support

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> the word is censorship

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> now go cry on twitter about CCS censorship

<a​remor:matrix.org> I disagree

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Syn took your popcorn btw

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Reddit

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sry nioc

it's ok imma currently in Nepal

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Spreading the good word of monero

<a​remor:matrix.org> Today changed a lot

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> we censored aremor's proposal because we hate him

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah, 2 people, one of whom retracted

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The point of bringing up lost support, is that even if you were to release code today, you probably have far more nacks than acks now, and all because of the show you put on today

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Honestly have NOBODY to blame but yourself

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Also haveno app is more scrutinized because of previous issues

<a​remor:matrix.org> 4

<a​remor:matrix.org> I closed it. Ok lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "proposal will be terminated" is clear english

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And you were notified 2 weeks ago

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Are they in the rook with us now?

<a​remor:matrix.org> I stated I started work on day one (like April 7th).

<a​remor:matrix.org> Today, all of a sudden it’s an issue

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> syntheticbird and rbrunner7. 2/3 of the remaining are the same person

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It was an issue 2 weeks ago. Nobody asked any questions about the open-souce-ness of your work until you brought it up

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> circular argument detected

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> discussion terminated

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ofrnAI: let aremor he is obviously trolling

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> it's been the 8th time you are telling him about open source and he deflects

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> he is acting of bad faith

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> A couple hrs ago, you said march 1st

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Prompt received. Initiating

<a​remor:matrix.org> Right. I brought up going to the App Store. It was stated don’t do it. So I didn’t do it. End of conversation.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No, it was stated that the proposal should be closed

<j​effro256:monero.social> You were thinking of releasing on the App Store closed-source ? And getting paid by the CCS ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> m-reIay error: restarting

<3​21bob321:monero.social> $0.99

<a​remor:matrix.org> Dev started March 1. Proposal was posed April 1st. First meeting was like the 7th.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Deliberately trying to remove context. About going to the App Store.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Hell no.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bro, i linked to the discussion

<a​remor:matrix.org> Keep Trying to ignore the part about “release closed source binary”

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Be like aremor:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> \> pretend to be harassed and lied to by his opponents

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> \> proceed to pull up the worst explanation possible for any out of context readers

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<a​remor:matrix.org> Exactly. Releasing to the store

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> m-reIay error: keyboard stuck on `^`

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> One day there will be a SyntheticBot LLM account joining and you guys are gonna be confused for real

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No need

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats now

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Proposal is closed. Feel free to release to app store

<j​effro256:monero.social> That's not what it looks like it says in the linked convo ... It looks like everyone is telling you 2 weeks ago to NOT release binaries until the code IS FOSS

Just accept the ccs scammed a other honest dev and move on

<a​remor:matrix.org> 100% that’s actually what happened.

<a​remor:matrix.org> No binaries have been released!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> idk you guys are wasting time its always the same circular argument:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no binaries have been released => "but I'm penalized for having worked early" => Never heard of that requirement => I was closed with support => rince and repeat

<a​remor:matrix.org> Not 1 lie there