Simple mode still connects to random nodes ?

well it uses a local daemon in bootstrap mode so indirectly but yeah

<Lyza> "well it uses a local daemon in..." <- And we know about malicious nodes for some time now, why haven’t we removed it ?

Because the UX of having to wait what could be multiple days before seeing incoming transactions outweighs the unlikely scenario that the users privacy is harmed by a malicious node?

monerobull[m]: So we allow malicious nodes to give bad decoys ?

Jeffro was to do some work towards that (a trusted/community node system), but seems he was unable to finish successfully

Why simple node, make users input their remote node if they want to use one

Then everyone just used cakewallet nodes lol

thats what happens typically

People download wallet > use default node

monerobull[m]: Is it worse than connecting to unreliable malicious nodes ?

Centralizing most users to the nodes of one corporate entity located in the USA?

Hell yes it is

Its not good and if it is all centralized to 10 nodes running on 3 vps, yeah, pretty bad

monerobull[m]: And bulk of malicious node are run by some African government

American*

I'd like to see real evidence before saying "throw out remote nodes all together"

We have over over a thousand sybils if you just count lurkinglion

We do know telling everyone to provide their own node will 100% lead to most people connecting to cake nodes

(And include ipv6)

750 just ipv4 (known)

monerobull[m]: You can wait for the evidence and keep ignoring the fact that using random malicious nodes exist on the network

The chance of getting harmed by a malicious node is probably way lower

monerobull[m]: Put a page on getmonero without cake nodes or American IPs if you are so paranoid of cake

Then everyone will just use the node at the top of that list

Cant centralize on cake, imo need to avoid the already known biggest nodes

monerobull[m]: Random listing ? Is it that hard

It's just not a viable approach when you want decentralization

monerobull[m]: Running own node is the only way to be decentralised

Not connecting to some random node

And you can’t even see what node you are connected to

Any use of random nodes should be and has always been discoraged

That's what I do. And my friends connect to my node

monerobull[m]: But you want others to keep using random nodes 😅

Random, not remote

trusted nodes can be remote and not run by you

No, people who seriously need max privacy will know not to use random nodes

Like bull said, friends and family can use my node and trust im not messing around

But if they download gui, they shoulnt auto connect to sybils (or whatever these are)

monerobull[m]: So you want ppl to feel monero is privacy but have default simple mode connecting to some random node

You can't make the UX way worse just because uneducated people won't get max privacy

It's a balance

s/is/has/

The ux of simple mode is a mistake

monerobull[m]: So you don’t want those uneducated users have privacy ?

Look

As long as nodes dont have to follow consensus rules, any non trusted node should be avoided

Nodes can serve you bad, stale, or even template decoys

The alternative is that the uneducated users say "wtf why doesn't this shit show up in my wallet" and then use Bitcoin or Litecoin or whatever chain where they have zero privacy at all

And thats old news ^ i dont knkw what this current exploit is, but i inagine its notably worse

monerobull[m]: Thats what happens in simple mlde

ofrnxmr[m]: I'm pretty sure enforcing the decoy selection Algo is on the list

monerobull[m]: If they need privacy they will learn & if we want to be lazy and not improve ux than keep this simple mode

A lot of "why wont my wallet sync " and answer is "add selsta2.feather node"

Which means user connected to a bad node

ofrnxmr[m]: Yep lot of complains in telegram

Which is not good

I should never, ever, dox myself accidentally

Telegram is exactly the same situation but worse, people thinking they have privacy but actually no e2ee

Maybe if simple mode was onion only or something, but you connect in the clear to sybils

monerobull[m]: Telegram isn’t used to send some monero payment, we are talking about simple mode where user connects to a random node

some forks, like haven, ship their own node

And as a result, there are like 15 nodes on the entire network

Great. Exactly what we need

Own remote node*

Nodes are run by haven and mining pools

Cake doesnt even run a haven node

monerobull[m]: You force users to manually put remote node or run their own node

That's garbage Ux and people will leave monero for it

If they want tk use a spy node, monero.fail can serve em a list

Way too much friction

monerobull[m]: As if we have millions of users

Or just change the name lf simoke mode to "this ks probably a spy node mode"

Using monero-gui

Most use cake n monerujo

This-is-probably-a-spy-node is a real monero flag