<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I can't seem to find resources to explain the following:

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I am transferring my XMR off an exchange and into my cold wallet. I have done it before with this exchange. The exchange asks for this information though: "Payment ID". I have previously left it blank and the payment came through nonetheless BUT I still want to know what feature I am missing out on. I have my Monero GUI Wallet open on other computer and I am looking to see if <clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I can generate this "Payment ID" in expectation of receiving funds. When I click on the "Receive" tab in the GUI - I am able to generate sub-addresses and "Payment Request"s. I will try using this regardless of your responses to see if this is the "Payment ID" that the exchange is asking for BUT I still want to know in a more general sense: What is the benefit of creating "Payment<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Request"s before I receive money from myself? What is the difference between generating this "Payment ID" and not? Would I not be able to prove the transaction without doing this "Pre-work"? My previous transaction still generated a "Transaction ID" but only after the payment was received.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> This brings me to my next point: In my previous transaction, whilst a "Transaction ID" was generated - a "Transaction key" WAS NOT GENERATED. Is this because I failed to provide a "Payment ID"/"Payment Request" as outlined in the previous paragraph? And so again I ask: Am I missing out on some sort of PROOF OF TRANSACTION feature?

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Finally, When signing transactions offline with my cold wallet's spend key, is my spend key displayed in the transaction or recoverable from the transaction in any way?

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Same as above just copy pasted for legibility:

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 1. I am transferring my XMR off an exchange and into my cold wallet. I have done it before with this exchange. The exchange asks for this information though: "Payment ID". I have previously left it blank and the payment came through nonetheless BUT I still want to know what feature I am missing out on. I have my Monero GUI Wallet open on other computer and I am looking to see if I<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> can generate this "Payment ID" in expectation of receiving funds. When I click on the "Receive" tab in the GUI - I am able to generate sub-addresses and "Payment Request"s. I will try using this regardless of your responses to see if this is the "Payment ID" that the exchange is asking for BUT I still want to know in a more general sense: What is the benefit of creating "Payment <clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Request"s before I receive money from myself? What is the difference between generating this "Payment ID" and not? Would I not be able to prove the transaction without doing this "Pre-work"? My previous transaction still generated a "Transaction ID" but only after the payment was received.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 2. This brings me to my next point: In my previous transaction, whilst a "Transaction ID" was generated - a "Transaction key" WAS NOT GENERATED. Is this because I failed to provide a "Payment ID"/"Payment Request" as outlined in the previous paragraph? And so again I ask: Am I missing out on some sort of PROOF OF TRANSACTION feature?

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 3. Finally, When signing transactions offline with my cold wallet's spend key, is my spend key displayed in the transaction or recoverable from the transaction in any way?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 1. wat is payment id: im not sure if the GUI allows you to manually create an address + payment id, for example, the monero python library can monero-python.readthedocs.io/en/lat…ayment-ids-and-integrated-addresses (and so too the monero-wallet-cli) an address + payment id is referred to an "integrated address" , you can play around creating them here (fro<clipped message>

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> m rbrunner7) monerotech.info/Home/IntegratedAddress . you can also paste in / analyse an address @ monerotech.info/Home/Address to reveal the 'base address' and its 'payment id' if any

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a payment request in the gui, has nothing to do with the blockchain, its just a URI string to input data conveniently for the sender (either by copy and pasting into the send box , or read from a QR code)

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I see, so correct me if I understand payment IDs correctly, please sir:

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 1. They are just like a tag for referencing.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 2. They serve no purpose in verification of transactions.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 3. no, spend key will only be recoverable from the signed output files alone.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> paymentID's/integrated addresses have been deprecated for a long time for various reasons, but they are still in use today. i think one problem is that, they promote re-use of the same base-address + paymentID(Tag) attatched. instead of creating seperate sub-addresses for each transaction that cant be linked to one another

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 2. my guess is no, but, i have never looked this. payment proofs should be unaffected whether fund where sent/received to an address/integrated address

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Perfect, thank. That resolves my first concern. My second concern though: "I want to know what "Transaction Key"s are.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> further reading on proving things in monero @ section 8 page getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf 75

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> also in section 2.3.3 of mastering monero masteringmonero.com/book/Mastering%…Hack%20and%20Monero%20Community.pdf

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> mastering monero would be a better place to start reading

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ZtM is more in depth

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I started reading and when I searched for the keyword "Transaction key" - nothing comes up.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> There is no reference in the "Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf" of "Transaction Keys".

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> This is from the second document: " This is accomplished by sharing a transaction key that only

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> the true sender can generate."

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> So only the exchange can send me the transaction key...

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Okay cool, but, then why can't I update the transaction manually for my transaction?

there is a specific 'transaction key' mention in mastering monero, but, it falls into the proving things sections in both papers

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> is this your actual question now?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what do you want to do exactly

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> It's not a question, it's an observation. I have received XMR from the exchange, but there is no option to verify that it was indeed them who sent me the XMR via the GUI. With some research, I have to use this tool: xmr.llcoins.net/checktx.html which is fine but it would be cool if the GUI had it. I was looking at this guide: "monero.stackexchange.com/questions/613<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 4/how-do-i-as-a-sender-verify-that-my-transaction-actually-arrived" and it talks about the verification process using the GUI. I have the GUI open using: 1. View Only Wallet and 2. Simple Mode. Am I not able to verify transactions spend or receive in this mode? Obviously not which is fine but I don't see what not if all that is needed is: 1. Transaction ID, 2. Transaction key and <clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 3. Recipient’s address as according to the tool I mentioned first.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> It's not a question, it's an observation. I have received XMR from the exchange, but there is no option to verify that it was indeed them who sent me the XMR via the GUI. With some research, I have to use this tool: xmr.llcoins.net/checktx.html which is fine but it would be cool if the GUI had it. I was looking at this guide: "monero.stackexchange.com/questions/613<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 4/how-do-i-as-a-sender-verify-that-my-transaction-actually-arrived" and it talks about the verification process using the GUI. I have the GUI open using: 1. View Only Wallet and 2. Simple Mode. Am I not able to verify transactions spend or receive in this mode? Obviously not which is fine but I don't see why not if all that is needed is: 1. Transaction ID, 2. Transaction key and 3<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> . Recipient’s address as according to the tool I mentioned first.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> These guides are outdated and refer to stuff my GUI does not have: getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/prove-payment.html I don't have a "History" tab or an "Advanced" tab.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> And then for my final question observation: Let's say I do the following:

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 1. Sign a "Spend" transaction offline. SPENDING HALF MY XMR SAY.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 2. Send the "transaction file" via usb to my hot computer.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 3. Broadcast the transaction via "Simple Mode" using the GUI and my view only wallet.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> My questions are this: 1. Is my "Private Spend Key" recoverable from the "transaction file"? You previously said this, Plowsof: "spend key will only be recoverable from the signed output files alone". It means that once I sign a transaction offline and those files contact a hot pc, I have essentially turned my cold wallet into a hot wallet. Does this mean I should ALWAYS spend all<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> my funds in my cold wallet? Is there no way to sign a transaction without broadcasting my "Private Spend Key"?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ok so the gui has a "P" button the sender can click on to prove payment / obtain proofs getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/prove-payment.html

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> again, i stress im not the person to answer these questions but "1. View Only Wallet and 2. Simple Mode. Am I not able to verify transactions spend or receive in this mode? " to prove payment you need the spend keys, so no (pls confirm)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i think you need to change your wallet mode to advanced

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> You are simply wrong in all your statements.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> You point me to the guide that says I must open the "History" tab. I SAID THERE IN NO HISTORY TAB IN MY GUI. I'm thinking it's because I'm in Simple Mode. I think the Developers were too lazy to implement transaction verification for simple mode or View Only Wallets or Both.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> You then say: " to prove payment you need the spend keys" - you trying to rob me?

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> You then say: "i think you need to change your wallet mode to advanced" which I think may be the annoying case.

the caps are starting again

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> " I'm thinking it's because I'm in Simple Mode" -> read my last reply, im glad you are able to come to the answers yourself, great initiative shown

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> stormepurple: stop spamming this channel with large texts. condense your questions and stop wasting peoples time. this is your last warning for your unhinged behaviour

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Just kick me clown. I'm am being clear and concise. You are deflecting. If the heat is too much for you - turn it down. Transactions should be verifiable in simple mode. It's just that SIMPLE. You suggested I need my spend key to verify transactions. It's you who should be banned for either trying to con me or being too stupid to be here. Up until this point I have been courteous <clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> and clear. I speak PERFECTLY clearly. Instead of engaging with me you try and shut me up. You are a clown. If this was my room I would encourage someone like me to ask these questions because they are important but you try and shut me up. YOU ARE RETARDED. My questions are EXACTLY HOW LONG THEY NEED TO BE IN ORDER FOR ME TO CONVEY MY POINTS CLEARLY. Instead of shunning me - just s<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> hut up and let someone who is willing to answer these important questions answer OR ELSE KICK ME BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO STOP. THE MONERO IDEA IS IMPORTANT TO ME AS ARE MY HARD EARNED FUNDS.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Just kick me clown. I am being clear and concise. You are deflecting. If the heat is too much for you - turn it down. Transactions should be verifiable in simple mode. It's just that SIMPLE. You suggested I need my spend key to verify transactions. It's you who should be banned for either trying to con me or being too stupid to be here. Up until this point I have been courteous an<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> d clear. I speak PERFECTLY clearly. Instead of engaging with me you try and shut me up. You are a clown. If this was my room I would encourage someone like me to ask these questions because they are important but you try and shut me up. YOU ARE RETARDED. My questions are EXACTLY HOW LONG THEY NEED TO BE IN ORDER FOR ME TO CONVEY MY POINTS CLEARLY. Instead of shunning me - just shu<clipped message>

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> t up and let someone who is willing to answer these important questions answer OR ELSE KICK ME BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO STOP. THE MONERO IDEA IS IMPORTANT TO ME AS ARE MY HARD EARNED FUNDS.

<j​effro256:monero.social> To prove payment, the sender needs the "transaction private key", which is not your spend key, as well as your Monero address. Note that this value is lost if the sender's cache is destroyed. The private transaction key is simply generated once by the sender in order to encrypt the transaction information to the receiver; it it unrelated to spending/signing. Also, signing a transa<clipped message>

<j​effro256:monero.social> ction file does not reveal your spend key. Don't mess with payment IDs unless you are running a merchant integration service.

thanks jeffro256

<j​effro256:monero.social> @stormepurple: you don't need to yell though

<j​effro256:monero.social> Especially when people are helping you for free

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Troll like behaviour

i was certain " i stress im not the person to answer these questions but" + "(pls confirm)" would protect me from his rage :(

<3​21bob321:monero.social> The selsta has rdo?

rdo?

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> jeffro256: At no point did I mention needing spend keys to verify transactions.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> The guides (monero.stackexchange.com/questions/…hat-my-transaction-actually-arrived) and (getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/prove-payment.html) say you need 3 things to prove a transaction took place:

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> 1. Transaction key (Generated by the sender but which can be sent to the receiver so that the receiver can verify the transaction as well). 2. Transaction ID (known by both) and 3. Receiver's address (known by both).

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Now the thing I do not understand is this: Why does the Monero Wallet in Simple mode not support transaction verification? I have no interest in hot wallets - and transaction verification is available online. It baffles my brain.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Rostered day off

<j​effro256:monero.social> Are you trying to verify as the receiver?

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> And you say signing transactions offline leaves no trace of my private spend key. I need to see the math on this. I couldn't find it online. I assume it's in the "Big paper" - Zero to Monero. I will read it then because it will be super convenient to sign transactions offline and and then not have to create new cold wallets each time.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I want to be able to verify as either party.

<j​effro256:monero.social> If signing transactions revealed your spend key, then all cryptocurrencies would be completely useless. Also, "signing" wouldn't have to exist as a concept. The whole point of signing a transaction is to prove that you authorized it without actually revealing the private key

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> So when I was into bitcoin and was sure to spend all the coins in my wallet, use the spend key once and then destroy the wallet, I was just plain ignorant? Ouch.

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I could've signed transactions without revealing my view keys...

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I was sure I read somewhere to do what I was doing...

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> Okay, I appreciate your insight jeffro256, thank you.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Could maybe be good for privacy/OPSEC, but it's not strictly needed

<j​effro256:monero.social> If you were leaking your XPUB during your signing process for some reason, then it could be good to switch ourt your cold wallet.

<j​effro256:monero.social> But whatever wallet did that sucks

<j​effro256:monero.social> if that's the case, idk if it is

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> So if the attackers have my XPUB and my signed transaction file they could recover my spend key?

<j​effro256:monero.social> nope they could just link your addresses together and reduce privacy

<s​tormepurple:matrix.org> I believe you, thank you, that is so cool. docs.featherwallet.org/guides/offline-tx-signing