what are these effort percentagges?

I'm not looking at it right now, but isn't effort based on how many hashes it took or is taking to find a block against the predicted amount of hashes?

Like a block found at 50% effort is "lucky" and one at 150% is "unlucky".

ah. my effort stats are in the thousand% range. so, tough luck...

This is what I enjoy about you, hyc. You and your Android miners do it just for the pure enjoyment.

it's a different form of video game ;)

What are you using to mine on Android? I was going to build xmrig on Termux, but the main repo on Termux was down last I checked so I couldn't install any packages.

huh, I built on termux just a few days ago

was the repo down? I just thought my install was out of date

403 Forbidden

Err:5 dl.bintray.com/grimler/science-packages-24 science Release

403 Forbidden

Err:6 main.termux-mirror.ml stable Release

Redirection from https to 'ww38.main.termux-mirror.ml/dists/stable/Release' is forbidden

Possible cause: repository is under maintenance or down (wrong sources.list URL?).

E: The repository 'main.termux-mirror.ml stable Release' does not have a Release file.

Sorry I didn't realize there were so many line breaks.

When I do 'pkg update'

nioc, thats the nature of using a sidechain of limited depth to record shares for blockreward distribution

thx, imma sure it was done for good reason

otherwise, you'd have a sidechain that grows indefinitely...

just pps or similar would be nice

although.... perhaps you could smoosh in something like cryptonite (the coin) did, with the blockchain that gets dumped into an account type storage thing

account-based tracking, interesting idea

those consensus rules would get wackadoodle real quick i imagine

it may not be worth the trouble

yeah

perhaps. but if i keep on getting all this dust i might go back to playing the lottery

if the sidechain is already at 15MH and you only have 1kH you're going to get effectively 0% of the payout anyway, even if all your shares are tracked

well, then the p2pool becomes a sort of xmr savings account

well, storing hashes really

well, the p2pool-with-account-based-tracking, which we'll call p2poolX

no... needs something with more pizazz

p2poolz

or whatever it is you call it when u name a thing with no real meaning.

I still don’t understand how the p2pool works. Is there an explanation anywhere?

like p2pool-Miami

Yeah I can confirm that 1.5 kH/s has netted exactly 0 XMR lol.

garth, yeah it exists in the bitcointalk forums i know, because thats where i read about it i think

the first concept to grok is merge-mining

thats like the keystone of the whole architecture

“<hyc> it's a different form of video game ;)” Love this response

I understand merge mining easily

I love Namecoin for this exact reason. Only coin Satoshi helped begin besides Bitcoin. Interestingly during the BTC BCH split there was a short period where the Namecoin merge mined hashrate was higher than bitcoins. Ha it was the most secure chain in the world

hrm. okay, so your merge-mining monero and the p2pool sidechain. The block you are trying to find the solution to is a monero block that has its coinbase reward spit out to those that are mining on the p2pool sidechain

with those splits proportional to the number of blocks each miner has found on the sidechain

That's actually pretty clear. Good explanation.

danke

I’m going to have to read that explanation a few times. Thanks gingeropolous

bitte

I'll take payment channels for 500

Ginger I created my first wallet in 2016 off a YouTube video you made. I remember laughing because you liked the mnemonic seed in the video because it had the word bacon in it

lol

i've actually not used wallets that i generated because the seeds gave me bad juju

heh, could probably reduce the search space of the bajillions of seeds by filtering out creepy ones

Out of everybody still mining today I bet you’re one of the people who’s been doing it the longest

its the best/worst addiction

Man mining when you started must have been amazing to look back on now

amazing how the old ways of the west are still applicable

meanwhile I'm typing the seed: bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon... Into the GUI to see if gingeropolous left some treasure.

Do you have a spouse or partner? Do you ever try to explain to them how you’re running up the power bill because you’re obsessed with collecting these random strings? Do they “get” it?

after so many years they get it

Ha awesome

im debating if i should build up with ddr4 or wait for ddr5

oh wow, I actually got a payout today. just refreshed wallet

Nice I should check too

Me and my 3 shares

call be double-o-1

damn, we're gonna click over to 1.8 before yah know it: already_generated_coins = 17984860994613390941

i wonder how that 0.6 is gonna do

I guess I don’t understand how this is trustless. If I find a block solution via my miner, how does an adversary not just submit it to the daemon as a solo miner and collect the block reward and then submit all their non winning shares to the p2pool to double dip?

because the nonce + (block stuff) = solution

Right

if you change the block stuff, you didn't find the solution

but as some point the nature of bitcoins asic chain will have lotsa chains wanting to merge mine

I still don’t get it haha :)

We need an article to be written about this

Man mainnet is really being used a lot. Transactions all day long. I’m so happy to see that.

But we really got to bump up the required ringsize

gingeropolous: tail emission is May 2022

garth are you familiar with the idea of a trap door function? Like MD5 or SHA256, etc? It's called that because it only goes one way. Hashing is a form of trap door function where the two pieces are the block solution you find and the nonce. You change either of those thing even a little, it's no longer the same and therefore invalid. You can't change the block to pay you only because it wouldn't be the same anymore.

might be a year b4 DDR5 outperforms DDR4

wild guess based on past

Yes I am aware of how a SHA256 Hash only goes one way

My point is if the p2pool is feeding the same mempool as the daemon to xmrig, and XMRig is just creating the same hashes solo mining or p2pool mining, then why wouldn’t an adversary double dip?

I don’t understand how this is trustless

the payout address is part of the hash

you can't change it and keep the solution

Yeah that's what I'm trying to say. The block solution you are computing those hashes for includes everyone else in the coinbase so you can't just change it.

So maybe dumb question. If the overall hashrate of p2pool goes up such that we're finding blocks much more often, it's more likely that low hashrate miners will get a payout before their "lucky" shares fall out of the PPLNS window right?

maybe, but the size of your payout shrinks

this doesn't make mining easier for low hashrate miners. or for anyone else.

it only makes it so that with your 1 in 1 million chance, you actually get paid once every million times

No, but it does mean that you don't have to trust a pool operator to pay you 6 months from now when you hit a threshold.

true

Although, it's all the same over time right. Statistically, a low hashrate miner over enough time would have the same income using centralized mining vs p2pool.

right

?

"long enough time" being the tricky part

So I'd rather wait to be lucky than trust someone I guess. Either way I don't have a payout immediately, but one I know that I'm not getting stiffed.

it just spreads out the curve; the area under the curve doesn't change.

absolutely, this is why cryptocurrency exists - to build systems that don't require trusting someone else

Exactly that's why I'm so excited for p2pool and why RandomX is amazing.

sigh. my trusty geekbox must've gotten partly fried by a power surge or something. neither USB port works any more

I've been running monerod on it since 2016

and it's about time I replace its microSD card. 128GB card is now 91% full

I can't believe you invented that based on a suggestion in a Reddit thread or am I mistaken?

I had been thinking about it and then dismissed it as pointless. but then that reddit thread showed up with a similar idea

and that was enough motivation to pursue it further

That SD card has to be on it's last legs.

this was that reddit thread reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/84y3ci…_pow_idea_against_asics_and_for_the

I've had microsd die with 1 year of light use just with reads (when I used to carry a lot of media with me before mobile networks could stream well).

yeah frankly i'm surprised it has lasted this long. I've had others die after only 2-3 years in my phones

you can see from my replies on that reddit thread, 3 weeks after the post went up I had a working proof of concept written

fun times...

Yeah and RandomX is amazing engineering and keeps us ASIC resistant. I don't understand why more cryptocurrencies don't embrace something like it. Having all your hashrate in China is dangerous. (Although, I haven't seen how BTC is fairing after the recent ban.)

Yeah the three week thing is one of the things I remembered.

Mad man.

my original idea was just to use gcc itself as the PoW. it's part of the old SPEC benchmark suites already

obviously the concept had to be refined in a lot of ways to get to where we are

The first prototype used JavaScript right?

yeah

Lol. I'm glad the news sites didn't misreport that.

in what way?

"Monero includes JavaScript in it's hashing algorithm, how secure is it?"

People are dumb.

heh

the idea was unsecurable, unfortunately

JavaScript does weirdness with type conversion with unary operations and addition. It's the devil.

<QuickBASIC> Although, it's all the same over time right. Statistically, a low hashrate miner over enough time would have the same income using centralized mining vs p2pool. >>> though this is only true if the network is decentralized. if the network is centralized around large pools directly connected to each other, a solo miners block is likely to be orphaned

another case where statistics meats the brutal meathooks of reality

Although I wasn't talking about solo mining, I'm not sure I follow. If I solo mine a block and submit it to the network how can it be orphaned by miners colluding? They all agree to only accept blocks from the other bad guys? Wouldn't they need specifically modified malicious nodes to do so?

yeah, just like how bitcoin miners needed a specially modified node / stratum server to mine spv-blocks?

miners are greedy by definition. thats sorta how nakamoto consensus works. the greed can be out of check though, hence asics.

I was just talking about pool vs p2pool. Statistically over time should have similar income because essentially they're doing the same kind of PPLNS scheme, just one is paying me immediately.

yeah

But yeah. I do have a basic understanding of the fact miners are greedy, but I think that many know not to bite the hand that feeds them. i.e. yes you can mine in a malicious and non-collaborative way

but it's at the expense of your coins reputation and value

indeed.

and yet, no monero pools have raised their fees

I'm not sure you're being facetious or not, have they not?

I mean mining pools can co-exist with p2pool if they provide value. They can stratum proxy to p2pool even and still track users shares to pay them. Many people will enjoy the simplicity of setup and worker tracking and graphs etc.

So they're not being put out of business per se.

my point is that the mining ecosystem dominated by 2-3 major pools is not an ideal situation, yet none of those pools have raised fees, which would drive miners to smaller, lower fee pools

its not malicious nor is it non-collaborative, but its not.... great either

but regardless, we have p2pool now.

Ah. I follow.

time for parades

But does p2pool solve it? What if people prefer pool mining and the big pools don't go away?

but yah know, no one gives a rats ass about decentralization these days anyhoo

naw, it doesn't solve it

heh. though it would be interesting if p2pool somehow makes the whole wowner-style forced solomining somehow poolable

wowner. wownero-style

A lot of people do. I do. Atomic swaps, p2pool, and ASIC resistance are the triple threat, the killer feature. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I talk to people.

*care about decentralization

i know we do. but i feel like we're crazy

Bitcoin maximalists praising acceptance into traditional centralized spaces... Madness.

<hyc> the payout address is part of the hash. Ahhh on that helps

*ok that helps

We arent going to replace centralized finance ever, USD and banks will always exist, but Monero will still be a free and decentralized option.

How does the hash work if the payout address has 1000 people on the p2pool? Does hashing take longer since it has to include all this data?

It makes the transaction slightly larger on the blockchain, but I don't know how computationally expensive it is to generate the block template with the extra coinbase outputs or to hash it.

But, gingeropolous, my question is, do you think the majority of miners will switch to p2pool once it's live or will there still be some large pools? Bitcoin p2pool exists and it's not a substantial part of their hashrate.

Ah, I reread what you said about it not solving it.

Morning, I have migrated 2 of my machines from xmrvsbeast over to P2Pool. All set up fine on Ubuntu and happily finding shares. Ran a pull this morning for the latest version and all seems happy

Welcome!

Any idea why "Your hashrate (pool-side)" would be 0 H/s even though StratumServer is reporting a few good KH/s?

you need to find a pool share

I presume that happens in time?

it depends on your hashrate

difficulty is 227M now, so more than a day with low 2 kh/s hashrate

Ah right, that's fine. I was more concerned that something wasn't setup right.

if StratumServer shows more or less correct hashrate, it's fine

It does, thanks :)

this keeps my network port pretty busy, the light on my switch constantly flickering with traffic

it's probably monerod traffic

this is my node: paste.debian.net/hidden/cadb3729

Is there any way to see the pool stats? When P2Pool last found a block etc? I can see the SideChain status as

Main chain height = 2440534

Main chain hashrate = 2.648 GH/s

Side chain height = 1339

Side chain hashrate = 10.000 KH/s

Your hashrate (pool-side) = 9.999 KH/s

PPLNS window = 1339 blocks (+0 uncles, 0 orphans)

Your shares = 1339 blocks (+0 uncles, 0 orphans)

Block reward share (est) = 0.880915690211 XMR

Wow nice work mandelbug

About a whole block reward for just over half the sharechain blocks ?

Oh wait. The share chain is clipped...

You're on your own maybe ?

maybe, still trying to work it all out, the rest of my status reads as.

StratumServer status

Hashrate (15m est) = 5.993 KH/s

Hashrate (1h est) = 6.250 KH/s

Hashrate (24h est) = 7.799 KH/s

Total hashes = 137132153

Shares found = 1371

Average effort = 100.001%

Current effort = 0.000%

Connections = 1 (1 incoming)

P2PServer status

Connections = 0 (0 incoming)

Peer list size = 0

I am guessing that the Uncles refers to found blocks which would then result in a payout?

Uncles is weird creepy terminology for close orphans, which are close enough that they're paid for at a discount.

Anyway, you're not on the main share chain. You're mining on your own.

Ahhh OK

You're probably on the main monero chain though, so if you find a block you'll have it all to yourself

How do I get on to the main share chain? I have the addpeers 65.21.227.114 option added to the p2pool command

Recompile the new version and make sure your config.json has the new pool name.

mandelbug p2pool.io

what's your exact command line?

./p2pool --host 127.0.0.1 --rpc-port 18081 --zmq-port 18083 --wallet <<Address>> --stratum 0.0.0.0:3333 --p2p 0.0.0.0:37890 --addpeers 65.21.227.114:37890

37889

Config.json reads as

"name": "mainnet test 2",

"password": "",

"block_time": 10,

"min_diff": 100000,

"pplns_window": 2160,

"uncle_penalty": 20

change 37890 to 37889

in both places in your command line

Thank you,

I copied it from the readme yesterday

it's syncing now

hey! Will the p2pool api support reading how many shares have been submited by users connected to p2pool instance?

no

I'm going to assume that ERROR 2021-09-02 11:28:38.5132 RandomX_Hasher couldn't allocate RandomX VM is just a limitation on the VPS I'm using?

p2pool.io/api/pool/stats has "totalHashes" though

You need VPS with 4 GB memory preferable. Or you could try to add "--light-mode" to p2pool command line

has 8GB

did you enable huge pages there?

used the command on the github page

sudo sysctl vm.nr_hugepages=3072

that command?

am only running p2pool and monerod on the vps

yes

you could get to that error only if you don't have enough huge pages

try to increase this number to 4096 maybe

ok

you could also run "cat /proc/sys/vm/nr_hugepages" to check that it actually worked

looks like it didn't take it when I first did it, reboot and try again seems to be fine now with the original 3072

sech1: A few errors in my log file after 12 hours of pool use: paste.debian.net/1210072

Maybe this is caused by monerod just falling behind temporarily?

yes

Woooo got my first few outputs into my wallet! Total revenue from 12 hours of mining at 25 kh is 0.00242

Is that with default difficulty Garth? or did you set a custom diff?

Default diff

I don’t think setting diff affects earnings

heh. these direct from coinbase p2pool payouts will skew the whole "we shouldn't use coinbase outputs as mixins" thing

but i was able to send p2pool payouts using cakewallet. those are with the recently updated p2pool

dev fund is getting my sweet $3

When was your cakewallet updated? Did it see all your payouts?

So, does moving these somewhat unique coinbase outputs reduce privacy somehow overall?

gingeropolous both cake wallet and monerujo don't see my p2pool payouts, they need an update

ok so not the only one that cake wallet doesn't see my payout

couldn't get my cake wallet app to accept any new nodes either

only CLI wallet v0.17.2.3 can see them

welp, it worked for me

sech1, ^

i have cakewallet 4.2.5 apparently

QuickBASIC, re: coinbase and privacy - perhaps. there used to be a big thing, sgp_ can speak to it, about how including coinbase outputs as decoys was kind of a waste of a decoy, because the only people that control coinbase outputs are miners, and there are only a few true miners on the network, because pools suck balls

one idea floated was that someone spending a coinbase tx should only mix with other coinbases as decoys

more or less, the concern sorta has just been backburnered for lack of a good solution or i dunno really

Was backburnered because coinbase outputs are a minority of outputs now

My stratum server stats are weird

ashrate (15m est) = 0 H/s

Hashrate (1h est) = 0 H/s

Hashrate (24h est) = 3.101 KH/s

I know I'm getting jobs on the miners, but this always says 0 for 15m and 1h

QBASIC, yeah its because they are not finding shares

i had similar thing occur

i dunno if the stratum eventually lowered the diff or what

My diff is showing up as 306M on my miners, not finding anything, was going to leave it to see if anything would happen with lowering the diff etc

Okay, but why is the 24h so high... Oh b/c I have found some shares in that larger window?

yeah, and they were high diff shares i bet

gingeropolous I also tested cakewallet 4.2.5. There's a small chance that your wallets ended up first in the list for each payout

yeah, my miners are receiving 305M diff jobs

mandelbug you can set custom diff on your miners

but i guess thats the current diff of sidechain?

Oh that's the same reason block explorers are showing only one coinbase?

hrm, may need to ping mwO12

github instructions have the command line to set custom diff

./xmrig -u x+10000 -o 127.0.0.1:3333 for diff 10000

right, but why does the diff get set so high?

because it's sidechain diff

either that or you set custom diff manually

roight roight

Does v0.17.2.3 support p2pool natively now, or still need custom binaries?

you still need custom binaries

p2pool changes were too large to get included quickly

0.17.2.3 only has wallet fix for p2pool

any bug fixes/major changes since yesterday? need to recompile p2pool?

No

thank you sech1, I will leave it running for a bit and see if anything pops up, if not will try and set a difficulty

<selsta> "you still need custom binaries" <- Thanks!

Will be testing this week, have the custom daemon syncing now.

My kid added his gaming pc to my stratum. I'm going to have to raise his allowance.

By 0.00035 xmr lol.

lol

Is it necessary to be connected to the p2pserver?

No.

In theory anyway. If you do not, you'll be on your own. You get fewer blocks, but the whole block.

Interesting, if I didn't forward a port for the p2pserver, I was being told my monerod was out of sync.

2021-09-02 18:39:03.8680 StratumServer sent new job to 5/5 clients

I only have 3 miners... I wonder why this would happen?

It's NAT'd and port isn't open in firewall.

Connecting via local subnet.

Once of the miners is using a Windows Scheduled Task and stopping and starting xmrig when idle, so it's possible that it's connected and disconnected several times. I wonder if it's counting those multiple times.

Any way to list miners that are connected via stratum?

Off topic is there a way to login to IRC with the same nick from multiple clients. I'm jumping between my work machine, phone, and laptop.

Yes, though not at the same time. You can also use a bouncer to multiplex your clients. Like znc.

Okay, thanks moo.

So, it seems like p2pool is not getting info from monerod :(

Although monerod is up to date, p2pool thinks I'm behind

1) monerod must be custom build from my branch 2) ./monerod --zmq-pub tcp://127.0.0.1:18083

I think I have all of those things

* those things covered

how many blocks behind?

sech1 any plan to add a way to list connected workers?

list how? IP addresses?

It pulls the right data from monerod when it initialises, but it doesn't update, so as blocks are found it increases how far behind I am

it sounds like zmq doesn't work

what version does monerod show at startup? Monero 'Oxygen Orion' (v0.17.2.3-1c9c3b770)?

Exactly

I am running p2pool and monerod from different accounts, I'm not sure that should matter though :S

if it's correct version, it should work. Do you run monerod and p2pool on the same machine?

Same machine, different users

<sech1> list how? IP addresses?

At the bare minimum so if I'm like hyc and have a shelf full of cell phones mining I can tell which one is disconnected

I get 'failed to check for nmap support' on the restricted account

Or more seriously yeah to tell which miners are connected without checking each one.

"lsof -p PID | grep TCP" and look for something like "localhost.localdomain:58364->localhost.localdomain:18083 (ESTABLISHED)" in the output

where PID is PID of p2pool

Ah ty.

Another few errors in my p2pool: paste.debian.net/1210160

Well, warnings

“Banned for 600 seconds”, is that like Gone in 60 Seconds with Nicholas Cage?

And blonde Angelina Jolie. Blonde Angelina Jolie is the best Angelina Jolie