-
pauliouk
ah nevermind... think I found a better way :)
-
gingeropolous
so how is zcash dealing with all the ppl that built and bought those asics?
-
hyc
probably telling 'em FU
-
hyc
how many people was, it really...
-
selsta
did zcash update their algo?
-
hyc
they are migrating to POS
-
selsta
guess they want to double dip with their dev tax
-
nioc
zooko wrote a blog post saying that pos would help the price
-
hyc
woohoo
-
hyc
they're a for-profit corp, if it will really help \i guess they have to do it
-
hyc
not really sure I understand why that will magically increase demand
-
hyc
I guess it means whoever has heavy bags already gets to dictate the future of things. very democratic.
-
nioc
-
hyc
lol
-
hyc
so yeah, basically admitting there isn't enough intrinsic value to sustain its price on its own
-
hyc
-
hyc
welp, happy 2 year anniversary folks
-
hyc
I started to hear a humming sound from my laptop's fans, decided to stop xmrig
-
hyc
6 threads mining, watt meter showed 140W. now it's reading 70W with them gone
-
Inge
What cpu in that thing?
-
hyc
5950hx
-
hyc
the other 70W is a bunch of stuff btw.
-
hyc
watt meter at wall, power strip in that, many devices in that
-
Inge
ah makes sense
-
\x
hyc: you gut a 5950hx machine?
-
hyc
lenovo legion 7\
-
hyc
I noticed a weird humming from the fans. both inlets were full of cat hair
-
\x
ah, what wifi card came with it?
-
\x
lspci -nn
-
hyc
leaving miner off for now
-
\x
if you gut the mediatek wifi on it, im interested on an iw phy fump
-
\x
dump*
-
\x
its likely mt7921
-
hyc
intel ax200
-
\x
mehh
-
hyc
I wonder if anyone would buy this one off me. I got the first in-stock one I could find, which has a UK keyboard
-
hyc
and it's driving me batty
-
hyc
I'm getting all these spurious backslashes because of the half-width left-shift key and enter key
-
hyc
what moron decides you need backslash on two keys of the keyboard, and not a bigger shift key
-
hyc
and looking at the service manual, the keyboard is not an independent unit. it's integral to the top case of the laptop. otherwise I'd just swap keyboards
-
moneromooo
Yet another Brexit success, getting away from European intransigeance and showing off genuine English innovation.
-
hyc
lol
-
pauliouk
hey, don't blame that on the English!
-
pauliouk
the whole blame lays in the hands of the idiot Gen-Z kids
-
hyc
what, Brexit? or the stupid UK keyboard layout?
-
pauliouk
well probably both
-
hyc
seems to me both are pretyy squarely the fault of the English :P
-
pauliouk
some politician said "If the country votes for Brexit, I'll quit" - all the idiot kids heard was 'I can affect change if I vote for something I dont understand'
-
hyc
oh come on, really? you're saying the majority of brexit votes were from young people?
-
pauliouk
as for the keyboard... yeah ok I have that issue myself but I got used to it quick :)
-
hyc
haha
-
hyc
I kept on hitting ctrl-\ when trying to use ctrl-shift. which aborts the current process and generates a coredump, by default
-
pauliouk
there were too many young people making their first votes, and unlike in America where they just fudge the votes by having millions of dead people 'vote', in the UK we just have millions of brain-dead people vote.
-
hyc
I had to disable the ctrl-\ key sequence
-
hyc
otherwise I was killing things left and right
-
pauliouk
I can see why that'd get annoying quick :P
-
hyc
but I still get extra backslashes when reaching for both leftshift and for enter
-
hyc
bugs the crap outta me
-
hyc
-
hyc
majority of young people voted remain
-
hyc
by a vast margin
-
pauliouk
hmmm wow, yeah vast margin too
-
pauliouk
I call bias stats :D
-
hyc
phphphphttt
-
hyc
only cynical old guys trying to dodge taxes and human rights voted leave :P
-
pauliouk
in fairness, yeah old people were like "Why do we let other people decide what we do with our country?" when essentially the only thing that'll change is the amount other people charge for us importing things.
-
hyc
and the time it takes to import, with all the new red tape
-
pauliouk
red tape, green tape, duct tape and bondage tape at the moment
-
pauliouk
I just wish we had slightly better weather here so I could throw up a couple of greenhouses in the garden and keep some produce growing all year round
-
pauliouk
oh, hyc I might have some form of use for your tv-box/SBC miners soon :)
-
hyc
oh really?
-
hyc
i've been thinking about ordering another 10 or so to set up again here\
-
hyc
^^ see what i mean
-
hyc
I would edit my keymap and disable both of those keys but then I'd need to find somewhere to map a real backslash to
-
pauliouk
xmrig-proxy, grabs the wallet address from the xmrig username argument, logs it, then fires up a p2pool node with a random address from the log, and points everything at it until a block is found or 30minutes
-
hyc
and then?
-
pauliouk
once a share is found, the p2pool node goes down, and a backup p2pool gets locked onto by xmrig-proxy with the next wallet
-
hyc
why go to that trouble?
-
pauliouk
I'm sure there's an easier option, I'm just spitballin' at the moment
-
hyc
and does xmrig-proxy still accept connections while it has no backend to talk to?
-
pauliouk
1 retry before trying a new pool url, should be minimal disruption (testing to ensue)
-
hyc
so it sounds to me like you want to continue to have a multi-user pool
-
hyc
but without the pool custody issue
-
pauliouk
its for the tiny-miners
-
pauliouk
1 pi ain't going to do much, 1000pi's could get a block :)
-
pauliouk
or at least a share or two :P
-
hyc
1 share, at .0003xmr, divided 1000 ways. woohoo.
-
pauliouk
nope, it'll be 1 share to one wallet
-
pauliouk
think xmrvsbeast HRBoost, but community driven
-
hyc
and 999 guys waiting for their turn
-
pauliouk
its a pi :) set it and forget it :)
-
hyc
then just keep using existing pool software
-
pauliouk
:) I'll give it a shot and see how well it works out
-
hyc
I guess there's no reason p2pool couldn't be changed to be multiuser
-
hyc
but there would be no combining of hashrate
-
hyc
each miner's jobs would be generated for its own wallet address
-
pauliouk
hmm in which case they could just run their own p2pool node
-
hyc
exactly
-
pauliouk
hmm I've seen quite a few Transaction not found in pool messages overnight :|
-
sethsimmons
<pauliouk> "hmm I've seen quite a few..." <- Did monerod or p2pool restart in that time?
-
pauliouk
nope, both running solid for a 5 days
-
sethsimmons
That message gets spammed anytime p2pool restarts for me, as miners find "false" shares while syncing so p2pool tries to submit them to monerod.
-
pauliouk
ah wait... I did throw another p2pool node at the monerod, however these messages came randomly later after it had fully synced
-
Inge
-
masterbob79[m]
hey Seth For Privacy I tried using your guide for advanced running node, and download from the repo. it says it corrupt
-
sethsimmons
<masterbob79[m]> "hey Seth For Privacy I tried..." <- Taken to DMs.
-
gingeropolous
congrats on 2 years of randomx everyone!
-
masterbob79[m]
is the plan to stay on Randomx?
-
hyc
lol
-
hyc
fuk, what a moron
-
gingeropolous
wut?
-
hyc
the tweet Inge posted
-
SerHack
I opened a wine bottle for you, guys.
-
hyc
I'm planning to open a barolo tonight too
-
gingeropolous
lulz
-
gingeropolous
well, 2 years. I just did a really rushed write up for the anniversary, and came across the fact that the 2 year mark was supposed to be signficiant in some sense
-
gingeropolous
i think we are sposed to re-evaluate the PoW and assess if things should be done
-
hyc
yeah. expected lifespan of current randomx was 3-5 years
-
hyc
and we could retune if needed
-
gingeropolous
does the advent of chipmakers moving ram right onto the CPU die mean something should be tuned?
-
hyc
so far I don't see a need
-
gingeropolous
dye
-
hyc
die is correct
-
hyc
which chip makers besides Apple so far? M1 is nice but isn't blowing anyone away
-
gingeropolous
yeah i guess thats it. the best intel brought to the table is this bigLITTLE nonsense
-
hyc
lol yeah total garbage
-
masterbob79[m]
what's wrong with this guy? I was trying to figure out who he was. he's the xmr-stak guy.
-
masterbob79[m]
-
gingeropolous
masterbob79[m], don't go down that rabbit hole
-
gingeropolous
its full of delusions and hatred, really not productive in any sense
-
hyc
he has publicly admitted to being clinically mentally ill
-
hyc
so yeah, nothing to learn there
-
masterbob79[m]
I have heard nothing but bad things.
-
pauliouk
I looked up xmr-stak last night, within 30secs I closed the page
-
gingeropolous
i assume amd will be moving ram onto die soon enough
-
pauliouk
Gen4 does that I believe
-
gingeropolous
or they'll just get to the point where their cache is so massive its equivalent
-
gingeropolous
so, sure, perhaps no tuning is necessary now
-
gingeropolous
but considering the ..... feet dragging ... or whatever.. thats gonna happen with any PoW tweak ... i think the soil on this one should at least be tilled at this point
-
masterbob79[m]
xmrig has always been better
-
hyc
-
hyc
haven't found any actual tech specs yet
-
pauliouk
I'm curious about the Baikal ARM processors making their way into Russia - if they're cheap enough, could be a viable mining option
-
hyc
they claim incremental improvements over previous gen Graviton, which is ok. looks like they are claiming drastic advantage over Intel
-
gingeropolous
i guess thats the closets we'll get to the asic situation, considering i doubt amazon will release gravitron to consumers
-
hyc
at some point someone is going to have to try to write a randomx jit for RISC-V
-
gingeropolous
and there's the unfortunate reality that end consumers mostly use tablets and phones these days
-
gingeropolous
i dunno what would drive a real personal computer revolution
-
gingeropolous
everyone seems happy enough to go back to the mainframe / client thing that the crazy hippies in the 60s helped stop
-
hyc
mainframe/client prob works out best for everyone overall
-
hyc
people clearly suck at maintaining their own PCs
-
hyc
I personally have never had much use for a computer without an internet connection
-
hyc
always needed network access to truly be useful\
-
pauliouk
I remember life pre-internet, tech wasn't as much fun, but still interesting enough to keep me engaged
-
hyc
doesn't make sense to do a lot of heavy lifting on a battery-powered handheld device
-
nioc
computer as a service incoming
-
hyc
my first computer experience was via 300 baud dialup, so telecom has always been part of my computing experience
-
hyc
compute as a service - we had that with compuserve and genie too. which gave rise to aol.
-
pauliouk
I worked up from a ZX81, to Amiga 500->1200, then onto a 386DX Win3.1, and 486 Win3.11 before the usual Win NT, Win 95 (dialup), 98(dialup), 2000(512kbit), XP(1mbit) increments. Then moved onto RedHat and Debian
-
gingeropolous
well apparnetly professionals suck at maintaining their own PCs as well
-
gingeropolous
all the monero bonnets
-
hyc
the profession expanded faster than it should have. I recall a comment by a famous computer scientist in the 1970s-80s
-
hyc
about all these new CS programs starting up in universities all over the country
-
hyc
"how are they doing this? there aren't enough computer scientists in existence to teach all these curricula"
-
pauliouk
and now they churn out MSCE's faster than icecream.
-
hyc
and none worth the pixels they're printed on
-
gingeropolous
hey i plan on getting a $7k version of a masters from georgia tech soon enuf
-
gingeropolous
but back to on topic talk, this is getting into banter territory. :)
-
hyc
the mainframe model works because you only need a small centralized team who knows what they're doing to keep it all going
-
gingeropolous
but yeah. should we hold, like, an actual meeting on randomx and PoW future etc? it seems like a silly idea to let it bite us in the ass again.
-
pauliouk
I use a custom bit of software for building web based forms for a living. I mis-use it to do things faster than all of these £80K webdevs we hire can do something half as good. I had to explain to a senior develop and systems architect why their AWS node was having issues as they were blaming the users browsers for a 403 error.
-
hyc
compuserve/genie/aol were what amazon aws is today - selling spare cycles on compute servers you originally bought for business functions
-
hyc
gingeropolous: I guess we can have a meeting if you want. but I think if anyone had heard of any significant hardware milestones they would have mentioned it already
-
hyc
so i'm not sure a meeting will shed any new light on the situation
-
pauliouk
"We're getting 403 errors, we need you to ask anyone who gets the error if they're in the UK, EU or other location, were they using a mobile device, if so, what manufacturer, OS and browser version, if not, what OS and browser version were they using?" it was happening to around 20% of visitors... at no point did they think "Maybe its us?"
-
gingeropolous
right. i don't "want" to have a meeting. perhaps i'll just start a github issue
-
gingeropolous
and that can evolve / devolve however it does
-
hyc
cool
-
gingeropolous
i, for one, see a reasonable return on fortifying our position as it stands now
-
hyc
huge on-chip RAM is something to pay attention to, certainly. which we are doing.
-
gingeropolous
especially considering one of the primary concerns in the tweak-era was that we are having a centralized response to a particular company
-
hyc
when AMD's next generation chips come out we'll need to see what they achieve
-
gingeropolous
and apparently all the legal oriented ppl get all excited about that
-
hyc
legal oriented?
-
gingeropolous
but if we fortify before the introduction of something, then its just the developers increasing the security of the network
-
gingeropolous
lawyers and such
-
hyc
yeah. so what? it's our software, we can do what we want with it.
-
gingeropolous
-
gingeropolous
i forget the specifics, but what i got from it was something about centralization and legal implications of bricking asics or something
-
hyc
being prepared is good of course, but nobody wants the upheaval of a change if there's no reason
-
hyc
we would need to see a sharp spike in hashrate, indicating an ASIC problem, before triggering a change
-
hyc
I don't see that being proactive buys us anything really.
-
crypto_grampy[m]
Is there any sort of specific hashrate change that would convey ASIC usage? Might be interesting to have something tracking this for irregularities Rucknium
-
Rucknium[m]
crypto_grampy: A huge spike, I'd imagine
-
Rucknium[m]
It could be useful to go back and look at historical instances on Monero and other chains when ASICs arrived.
-
crypto_grampy[m]
Id actually imagine someone would be more subtle
-
Rucknium[m]
It sort of depends on their motives and business model
-
crypto_grampy[m]
> glances at hidden inflation bug slow printer
-
hyc
if they're smart yes, they would learn from our reaction in the past and ramp up slowly
-
hyc
so far the track record shows they don't do that though, the spikes have always been visible
-
hyc
also checking nonce distribution shows unusual miners and gives them away
-
hyc
again, that's known and should be easy for them to evade. but they haven't.
-
crypto_grampy[m]
You could probably look at some metric that shows number of miners and compare to total hashrate or something... Taking into account average CPU performance changes over time
-
Rucknium[m]
We can't know the number of miners
-
crypto_grampy[m]
Just a smooth brain spitballing here 🙃
-
selsta
there were huge spikes in randomx too with cloud botnets
-
selsta
but they didn't last a long time
-
hyc
yeah, that's the most we're likely to see for a while
-
hyc
the global chip shortage is still a thing. even if someone were working on an ASIC design, they probably aren't able to get it into production right now
-
hyc
but clearly it would have taken (has taken) more than 3 years to design such a thing
-
Rucknium[m]
One thing to think about is how valuable block rewards were back when the Monero ASICs were developed. And compare that to how valuable they are now.
-
Rucknium[m]
To see if there is a substantial profit opportunity, even if developing ASICs were to be possible
-
hyc
-
hyc
hash rate vs price
-
hyc
the deployment of ASICs happened at a much lower xmr price than we have today
-
crypto_grampy[m]
Is it possible to get quotes from an ASIC manufacturer for a randomx miner?
-
nioc
the first monero asics were a slow increase as they deployed them as they were built, while people were debating it was obvious to me that there were asics
-
crypto_grampy[m]
hyc: What browser is that 👀👀
-
hyc
seamonkey
-
hyc
I only use code I helped write.
-
Rucknium[m]
hyc: But much higher total block reward, correct?
-
hyc
Rucknium[m]: maybe. I don't know the figures offhand, but our txn volume is also much higher now, so more txn fees offsetting the lower emission
-
tevador
2 years since the rollout of RandomX :)
-
Rucknium[m]
bitinfocharts doesn't have the data we would need to do a business calculation.
-
hyc
and again, I doubt a small scale ASIC mfr will be able to compete with the big chip firms like AMD/Intel
semiaccurate.com/2021/11/08/amd-outs-milan-x-mi200-and-bridges
-
hyc
tevador: and closer to 3 years for ASIC designers to think about how they'd implement it
-
Rucknium[m]
I put a query to neptune to try to get the block reward data directly from the blockchain.
-
hyc
you can get those numbers from monero-blockchain-stats
-
hyc
you just need to merge that data with historical price data
-
hyc
-
hyc
you can get emission and fees in the output as well, optionally
-
Rucknium[m]
Very interesting. I didn't know about this binary. dives in
-
tevador
any reviews for #229?
-
tevador
gingeropolous: nice write-up, IIRC there were ASICs for CNv2 or CNv3
-
gingeropolous
thanks tevador . CNv2 or CNv3?
-
sethsimmons
v0.17.3.0 is compatible with p2pool now, correct?
-
tevador
gingeropolous: IIRC it was discovered from the distribution of nonces. I don't remember the exact PoW variant, but it was sometime between CNv1 and RandomX.
-
selsta
sethsimmons: it should have everything, yes