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DataHoarder
Their own bug. They forgot how to track blocks
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DataHoarder
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br-m
<basses:matrix.org> who runs
xcancel.com/MoneroResearchL ?
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br-m
<321bob321> batman
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nioc
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nioc
Except there is an issue with outgoing view keys
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nioc
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nioc
Please give us a choice
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nioc
Why not better privacy by default?
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br-m
<sgp_> I'd argue there is adequate choice since users can simply not share the key
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br-m
<sgp_> If you truly assume a dystopian information sharing case with exchanges, you could also assume they require the full seed of your wallet
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plowsof
agree
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @sgp_: That would mean violating the right to private property. What is wrong with making non auditable wallets the default?
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plowsof
non auditable wallet is a misnomer
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plowsof
a buzzword to appeal to the layman when the topic is more nuanced
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br-m
<dgently:catgirl.cloud> Yes, let's make it easy for them
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> plowsof: why so? Any naming suggestion?
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br-m
<321bob321> What scenarios do think its good ?
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br-m
<sgp_> @hbs:matrix.org: The default, from a technical standpoint, is for you to not share anything
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @sgp_: What downside do you see to not having outgoing view key by default?
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nioc
^^^^^
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br-m
<321bob321> Probably off ramping from ccs
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> @hbs:matrix.org: Many people use a "view wallet" to check their balances on less secure devices. If the default configuration doesn't allow a simple view wallet, it's less fully featured than one that does and makes creating such a view wallet less intuitive for users
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> I don't think the current situation with view wallets and key images was an intentional pro privacy choice so much as a necessary (at the time) compromise that we can finally do away with
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @monero.arbo:matrix.org: By lowering the privacy Monero provides?
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> I don't really agree with the arguments that it functionally lowers privacy
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> dealing with key images has always sucked and been bad and was never (I can't imagine) an intentional design choice
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> I was talking about the outgoing view key
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> Plus it's in line with the ethos (and practical reality) of optional transparency
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> we already have an outgoing view key, it's just more annoying, is the thing
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br-m
<sgp_> The key whose exact purpose is to share your transaction history does in fact do that, yes. I see 0 issues with this. If you don't want to share your info, simply don't share the key
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @sgp_: How about the key doesn't exist by default?
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br-m
<ofrnxmr> Under hbs proposal, they can create an auditable wallet > <@monero.arbo:matrix.org> Many people use a "view wallet" to check their balances on less secure devices. If the default configuration doesn't allow a simple view wallet, it's less fully featured than one that does and makes creating such a view wallet less intuitive for users
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br-m
<sgp_> The current process of viewing wallets already has terrible privacy and sucks. It's the worst of both worlds
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br-m
<ofrnxmr> the current is trash, and is a compromise on both ends. we can agree there
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: right, my point is that a view wallet is a common enough use that your average user would expect it by default. It's currently a pain point for Monero that this isn't the case
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @sgp_: Again, I am not suggesting that vide balance key is not introduced, just that it is an opt-in
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> for conversation purpose, is it really as easy as setting s_vb=k_ps to create a wallet with functionally no view key?
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nioc
Privacy by default please
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br-m
<monero.arbo:matrix.org> nioc: nobody is arguing against that
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @monero.arbo:matrix.org: That's what @jeffro256 said yes
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br-m
<hbs:matrix.org> @hbs:matrix.org: For the view balance key that is
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nioc
Good then we make it opt in \o/