<d​iego:cypherstack.com> For starters, I don't think the proposed architecture in the figma file is the way to go.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I don't mind changing things up, but there's a few misgivings on the proposed one.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sorry had to step away for a bit. To continue.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I see the idea behind Individuals, Developers, Businesses, etc

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But ultimately I think this is the wrong way for a few reasons. Several of the needs of these overlap.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And, on a similar note, the downloads page should always be a single click away from the home page with no drop downs or anything in between.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm all for culling the current way if it seems too bloated. But I think the foundation of the current architecture is fine.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i like the user story on the current site

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this part

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/nnJRGxXzKMrjSjYOToibJCFe

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Depending on if we want to be more like other crypto sites, it also needs the whitepaper and tokenomics within 2 clicks

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Diego Salazar: There is no Businesses menu

<c​hch3003:monero.social> It is: Developers / Individuals / Community / Blog

<c​hch3003:monero.social> You can compare the two sitemaps here: figma.com/design/yT4JTUfvBkAsBDPNPJ…edesign-Concept?node-id=2-335&m=dev

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I think we should check the websites of other cryptos to see how they organised information.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we have a way different focus than other cryptos

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Not that much

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Could be renamed Learn More / Get Started / Community / Blog

<c​hch3003:monero.social> It is more neutral

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Carbon neutral ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thx to solar panel mining yeah

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Ah right. Several of my points still stand.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Upon a second look, I don't think much can be cut.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> We can remove sponsorships by putting them on the front page.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> We honestly should just remove merchants and leave that to a third party. Keeping it up is annoying.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> As it is now, the current top-level architecture is superior imo.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Though others feel free to weigh in

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> just make a general resources page

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> wit monerica/newsletters/etc on it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> with monerica/newsletters/etc on it

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Conversely it would be interesting to change "Blog" ro "News" which takes to a page which highlights the newsletters as well as a link to the blog.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> weve had some shady sponsors, id prefer not advertising them on the front page

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> That's an understandable position.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Which honestly means besides cutting Merchants, I think there should be a redesign, but one that works with the current top-level architecture.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Each of the individual pages can be redesigned, of course.

<b​asses:matrix.org> nah, monerica is poltically motivated with a lot of sponsors and drugs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> whatever, still a valuable resource

<b​asses:matrix.org> yes, but not something to be shared on the website

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we can either list all helpful 3rd party resources or non

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> making distinctions, THAT is political

<b​asses:matrix.org> bruh, I know how to evade trouble legally

<b​asses:matrix.org> bruh, I know how to evade legal trouble

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> please stop

<b​asses:matrix.org> you shouldn't imply/promote any illegal stuff, monero being private already caused problems across multiple countries

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> there are exactly 0 reasons why anyone would get in trouble for linking to that site

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> especially if its in a list of a bunch of other helpful sites

<b​asses:matrix.org> I don't use how monerica is useful for most users, it is a website with a lot of links

<b​asses:matrix.org> kycnotme with monero filter is a lot more useful

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its a big directory of places where you can spend monero...

<b​asses:matrix.org> they give you slight detail

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and it has a whole mental outlaw video about it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> 90k views

<b​asses:matrix.org> mental outlaw is an influcener/individual he can do whatever he wants, his opinions/ideas reflect his own

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and? it still got a bunch of publicity, i dont see why it shouldnt be linked as a resource if it is one, a famous one at taht

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and? it still got a bunch of publicity, i dont see why it shouldnt be linked as a resource if it is one, a famous one at that

<b​asses:matrix.org> he also made a video about darknet bible? why don't we also add it to monero site? I'm sure it is also useful for "some" people.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> because its not directly related to monero? you can keep your whataboutism to yourself

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you dont like the opinions of the guy running the site, i get it. doesnt mean its not a helpful site for many

<b​asses:matrix.org> you are the one brought mental outlaw 🤷

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah to show how monerica is already more well known than some other sites

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Breh

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Does anyone even look at github?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or the website

<b​asses:matrix.org> light theme hurts my eyes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> getmonero.org/community/merchants

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Right at the top, sirs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Send pr for monerica and/or kycnot.me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Separate PRs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ```

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you are looking for places to spend your Monero, the directories below have some options. Please remember to do your own research before trusting them with your money:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> cryptwerk.com

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ```

<b​asses:matrix.org> Localmonero and Mymonero/Edge needs to get removed, no discussion

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Localmonero is removed

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> add monerica, replace LM with haveno-reto, remove hodl hodl, add trocador to swappers

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just not deployed

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Edge has no removal PR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bro go use the git smh

<b​asses:matrix.org> what is that getmonero.org/community/merchants ?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i might look into it later

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like, at least look at the open /merged PRs??

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Just not deployed

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2321

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2293

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2282

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> mymonero

<b​asses:matrix.org> sad how all "Centralized exchanges (CEXs) & Swappers" had breaches/major issues

<b​asses:matrix.org> even Trocador that is not mentioned

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2305

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> haveno + lm

<b​asses:matrix.org> oh seems like there's a disclaimer at the bottom of the website

<b​asses:matrix.org> nice

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2045

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> trocador

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2yrs old

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> what issues did they have?

<b​asses:matrix.org> Ddos

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> lol you made it sound like they lost funds or data

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> that is a lot different than getting ddosed

<b​asses:matrix.org> "major issues"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Trocador isnt listed tho, so?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> a few days of downtime is not a MAJOR issue

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> its not even listed... so..

<b​asses:matrix.org> might have caused loss of funds idk

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Simpleswap on the other hand ...

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> what? you have no idea how trocador works

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They are a middleman

<b​asses:matrix.org> but is it better than most swappers out there

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> they dont process your trade

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> quit yapping about things you have no clue on

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it's almost slanderous to put trocador being offline due to ddos in the same category as swappers who have lost a combined total of hundreds of millions

<b​asses:matrix.org> .

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and then suggesting there could have been loss of funds...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Regardless.. ITS NOT ON THE SITE

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2045 << review it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Regarding mymonero: monero-project/monero-site #2282 << review it. There is a discussion about it that needs to be settled. Go settle

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> hardenedsteel: thank you for putting in work on these many PRs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> majestic talking about selective scammers is funny when they jack up fees selectively

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Regarding edge: it needs a PR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Majestics sentiment was still good, even if hypocritical

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2294

<b​asses:matrix.org> is trustpilot.com trusted when it comes to crypto stuff?

<b​asses:matrix.org> or I have to look into reddit threads too?

<b​asses:matrix.org> Open Alias is relevant?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Relevant" meaning, still in use?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah, its supported by a few wallets, has some updates in pupeline via sgp, but few people actually use it afaict

open alias 2.0 is on the horizon #openalias

<b​asses:matrix.org> is Mailing List working? I'm not subscribed to it

<b​asses:matrix.org> lists.getmonero.org/postorius/lists…monero-announce.lists.getmonero.org

fixed when i last checked / closed an issue about it

<b​asses:matrix.org> cool plowsof should "The Monero Standard" removed from getmonero.org/library/?

<b​asses:matrix.org> LM will be closed soon

<b​asses:matrix.org> so website will be inaccessible and no longer posting "weekly publication"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Running 16.04 🙃

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They said they'd keep the block explorer running, so im not sure about standard

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> recanman:

alex from local monero said he would leave up their block explorer at the same link , we've not asked directly about TMS but there is a pr to remove it already

<b​asses:matrix.org> great

sorry for echoing

site has issues / PR's open for anyone to review/submit yay foss

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Don't be sorry, an echo is better than me yelling it loudly twice

there was a PR to add monerica to current site, and due to the open sourceness of the site it was nack'd

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Hm. Cryptwerk is listed though

never heard of him

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "I am currently against this proposal to be merged since the website shadow removed me and"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Also

that became personal for me when i noticed the github rep be updated - to add/change the home page, and it was later reflected

<b​asses:matrix.org> luigi and moneromooo still work on monero?

however the swapper complaining (MB) was listed in that same file but not on their page. i found it all in all strange, i dont even care if they dont list MB, just the way excuses where presented vs facts

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monerica has blacklisted Kyun, saying it is "Unreliable web hosting due to frequent outages and data loss. The owner Naphtha is currently MIA"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> > What I really don't understand is the last part, "The owner Naphtha is currently MIA". What? The canary is being updated every 10 days, signed with my key. I reply to 99% of messages within the same day, and if I'm not AFK, I usually reply instantly. I have never received any attempt of communication from Monerica.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What I really don't understand is the last part, "The owner Naphtha is currently MIA". What? The canary is being updated every 10 days, signed with my key. I reply to 99% of messages within the same day, and if I'm not AFK, I usually reply instantly. I have never received any attempt of communication from Monerica.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Luigi merges community approved PRs

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> mooo works on monero leisurely / is usually available for help etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> librejo.monerodevs.org is hosted on kyun, and i know a few ppl who use kyun and havent heard any complaints

i nack the haveno-reto listing . i trust haveno.exchange to list it if they feel its appropriate

<b​asses:matrix.org> So they are active in Vulnerability Response Process? github.com/monero-project/meta/blob…r/VULNERABILITY_RESPONSE_PROCESS.md

<b​asses:matrix.org> H1 etc

<b​asses:matrix.org> because they are the go-to ones github.com/monero-project/meta/blob…ints-of-contact-for-security-issues

hopefully the redesign process isn't a way to circumvent the pull request / review workflow :)

<b​asses:matrix.org> weird how they scrubbed any menion of telegra.ph/The-Situation-01-30 from their blog, it used to be there

<b​asses:matrix.org> should make it easier

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Does everyone agree that maintaining the merchants list is probably more trouble than its worth and it should be removed in site v2.0?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> My vote is for removal. Ofrn is against. Everyone else? Make your voice heard!

merchants where not maintained by the previous site maintainer because of the constant noise/work

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The many people posting PRs for merchants says the opposite

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If by merchants, you meant "shops and stores", we already dont list them

<b​asses:matrix.org> will site previews be alive on netlify after the redesign for a while? I would like to compare and see im something is missing plowsof

<b​asses:matrix.org> if*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We only list cryptwerk and should probably add stuff like xmrbazaar (when mature), kycnot.me etc

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Well, regarding the site itself there are three schools of thought. The first is that it is a neutral gateway to all things Monero. That the site shouldn't make value judgements (except for obvious scams. The second is that it should be a curated gateway for things the community recommends. Who the 'community' is, and the criteria is generally disagreed upon.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah. Also looking into coolify

sure, someone could host the old site e.g. coolify.monerodevs.org after transition

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Against removal, though I'd be in favor of hosting a curated list of merchants since it's the "official" site. Not everyone gets merged, listed and deployed on getmonero.org. Criteria of longevity, legitimacy of business...

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> the third is that the site should really just point to core stewarded stuff, with rare exceptions. This was one ideal back in the day, but I think it more or less died.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If this is a core-only site, let core do the work

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> ofrnxmr: I think that's more or less why the third school of thought died.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Smells like every other project. All corporate and centralized

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Which would mean, remove all wallets, all merchants, exchanges, docs

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Thought it was less about core-only, and more an ultra-conservative version of the second school of thought. Deciding on the strictest version of 'community' and 'criteria'

<b​asses:matrix.org> forgot about this cool website lol

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Regardless, even literally today we see argument and discussion taking place because some people are for more curation and some are for neutrality.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> This is not a resolved discussion by any means.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We are already conservative

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We reject a lot of things

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Like exchanges that havent been running with xmr for a solid period of time

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Monerica being an example

<b​asses:matrix.org> prefer if monero can maintain its own

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Wallets that contain trackers

<b​asses:matrix.org> merchants already causing discourse

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> wallets that have hidden fees

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We don't list any and everything, we dont list individual merchants (shops / stores), we do list communiry approved (not community recommended) swappers and exchanges

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> well, both of my suggestions (move sponsorship to front page as per proposed redesign so we can remove the page, and remove merchants page) seem to be vetoed

<b​asses:matrix.org> I have seen projects that support only xmr to get CCS funds then focus on other cryptos

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We only list open source wallets

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> so my suggestion then is to use the top-level architecture as-is when doing the redesign

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> or at the very least, if another one is proposed, it should have obvious benefits over the current one

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> off topic, but i left my 2c about unstoppableswaps being bitcoin focused in #community

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/Merchants/directories maybe

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If were ok with listing kycnot.me and other directories

<b​asses:matrix.org> well, Monero is mostly community funded, right? especially the CCS

sponsors to front page is sane (theyre on the github readme of monero core , but not the up-to-date list)

<b​asses:matrix.org> so we should emphasis it more than companies sponsorshi[

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I think so too. It also adds a pretty big value add for others wanting to sponsor.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> how?

<b​asses:matrix.org> FUTO grant wen?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> generalfund sponsors the website

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They can donate like anyone else

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The CCS is also on top-level, so it is

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I don't csre to see forked networking on the homepage plowsof:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or globee, then we find our a year later that they pulled sponsorship and we paid BF's credit card for it

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Cypher Stack needs to be added to the Sponsors list, fyi

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> There is 0 community insight into sponsors

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its "trust me bro"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> rottenwheel: open pr!

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Whip

<b​asses:matrix.org> I'm actually surprised they didn't consider monero when they granted a lot of privacy/security focused projects futo.org

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Need better transparency reports if were going to list sponsors on front page 🤷‍♂️

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> How do we know that some of these sponsors arent just buying BF a new boat

so sponsors not being on the front page gives the maintainer a bit of breathing room / less scrutiny ... albeit with less value for the sponsors. but currently we're not charging huge amounts to be listed either. monerokon makes more from sponsors than the project does

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "monerokon makes more" << bf's 10-15k credit card bill tells me otherwise

this is where there is a benefit in bypassing the pullrequest/review workflow - unveil the site and we can complain later 😃

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Where did that 15k go? who knows. But globee supposedly was going to foot the bill, then didnt 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Did we ever see the bill? No

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Globee under Past sponsors is also a dead link btw

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Should adjust so it's just a name and not a link

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> any volunteers to fix ^?

oh we had a globee removal from gui/core but not site :'(

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> also current sponsors page for active sponsors is just Tari, Majestic, MacStadium, Cake, and symas

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or open an issue 🥲

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> yes I'll fix

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ( i was joking, but thanks)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I was serious about opening issue

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We had cecilia run a scanner on the website for dead links, but we havent finished the work yet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/we had cecelia/ cecelia did us a favor and

<b​asses:matrix.org> year of Monero desktop

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Is the standard for translations to put the new translation string in all of the languages and just paste the english one temporarily?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Or do we not put that in (it auto falls back to English) and let the language people put it in?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm just going to add it into every language yml file so they just need to adjust the string and not need to put in the tag

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Trying to test my changes. Building the site takes literal years. :P

<b​asses:matrix.org> talking about weblate?

<b​asses:matrix.org> for the website in a non english lang, unstranlsated componenets should fall back to english

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Yes. I know they fall back. Mostly talking about putting the t.cypherstack string there as a courtesy for the others so they dint have to find where to paste it. They can just translate.

<b​asses:matrix.org> getmonero.org/legal/#viruses-and-malware should be updated to mention reproducible builds and also update github link as it points to bitmonero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> monero-project/monero-site #2331

<b​asses:matrix.org> based diego 2x

<b​asses:matrix.org> wait there's no PR for this yet 😔

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> @plowsof ack on the tl strings added for other languages:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Iirc, when removing you only need to remove from english. how about when adding?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> s/:/?

Yes edit only the english (add/delete(

Weblate (when working) will auto add the new key to all tr files (as blank)

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> ofrnxmr: I don't know either unfortunately

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ok ty

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Plowsof super saiyan merge powers when?

i need to enter the hyperbolic time chamber first (currently in use by tobtoht)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Tobtoht is going to blow up the good one when he's finished (like vegeta)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Oh wait, thats the healing pod

i think i meant healing pod then lol

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No your goku

<3​21bob321:monero.social> S1

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Offtopic, but how much mulla does cyper make from ccs?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont think cypher gets anything directly from ccs (aside from the research ccs' that they do)

<g​enessys:matrix.org> I would like to be a hosting provider so I can invest in monero and mining

<g​enessys:matrix.org> cs.mojohost.com/aff.php?aff=345

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Sorry but you're request isn't clear?

<g​enessys:matrix.org> I don't understand

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Neither do we

<b​asses:matrix.org> spam/scam

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Test for the new mod team

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Also i have seen that nick before

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What kinda bs link is that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> blackcoin: where u go foo

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Umm

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You can retroactive ban

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Me?

<g​enessys:matrix.org> Why specifically do they only use hosting from certain companies and not others? Are there employees of those data centers inside Monero?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> We only have the research CCS and my personal one.

<g​enessys:matrix.org> There is nothing wrong with a hosting provider more like the others that are already used

<3​21bob321:monero.social> @pascoalpsjunior:matrix.org

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Is this you hector?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> blackcoin: whats up with the link you sent? It redirects to the homepage

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Who is they? The servers that getmonero runs on are hosted on a variety of provider

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ... ? blackcoin: is that a tracking url?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> @diego ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (assume its an affiliate link, and spam)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> @erciccione:haveno.network ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats a dead account

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> On a dead homeserver

<3​21bob321:monero.social> fork it and make it great again

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ./upgraderoom 11

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> tldr: blackcoin doesnt run that website, and he was just shilling his affiliate link

<3​21bob321:monero.social> mbll competition?