<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The last/current design made attempts to be pretty "people" focused. The white mixed with the people above the fold on the video were attempts to make privacy friendly.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The proposed design goes in a more "tech" direction.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I cam see the simple, amateurish, people-focused thing being dated.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Can*

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But I think the tech direction is played out also. Will be dated by the time it goes up and likens too much to silicon valley

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> dribbble.com/shots/23134440-AWS-Monitoring-Hero

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Seriously. Everything is gradient these days.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Something's been swirling in my head for a few days. I had a conversation at Defcon. Was talking with a guy about Monero. He was a "crypto" guy and had only vaguely heard of Monero. Asked about smart contracts and stuff.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I explained to him and he basically said "so it's just money?"

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And that's been in my head since then.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Monero. It's just money.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> digital cash sir

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> That would be Dash

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dash is digital trash

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dark coin cuz the node goes offline

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I was joking :P

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> was just their tagline for a long time

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They still use it online sometimes. they're just having a mid life / identity crisis. pray for dash

<b​asses:matrix.org> need to check the redesign concepts on penpot

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm actually a flat enjoyer but gradient is excellent too. However I think you can more easily shoot yourself in the foot when it comes to gradient that flat. Too much spread with too much color difference can easily lead to mental overwhelming when looking at the page. Elements should be easily distinguishable and not *fade out of the background*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I like this one

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This one's hero too. Not the dashboard

<b​asses:matrix.org> corporate shill

<b​asses:matrix.org> from what I noticed a lot of exchanges use gradient design

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Meeting in 4 hours here Meeting this sunday: monero-project/meta #1049

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Meeting in 4 hours here: monero-project/meta #1049

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hmmmmmm

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1900utc

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Hello

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hi its me

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Am I an hour early

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I believe so

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Its 18 UTC

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Ok I guess see you in an hour

see you at the next meeting in 55 mins

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Hello again

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hi its me again

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Margaret

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Hi

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> So not much has happened with the website ccs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> It's been reopened but no new comments since

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> which?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> redesign?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i didnt know

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Really it's a reimplementation CCS. Design isn't a part of it.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> That said, I've done quite a bit of work so far. Prelim stuff still, but closing in on an angle.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I had several comments above of findings and discussion.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> MB, if I may use some meeting time, I'd like to get opinions of the people here.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Of course

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> So if you scroll up just a bit, you'll see some of the discussion, but I can reiterate here so things can be easy to follow.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> In summary, the current design is light theme, amateur-style, people-focused.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Note this is the design, not the information architecture, nor top level blocking (i.e. which pages exist and their hierarchy)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Two of those things are things I know people want changed. They want primarily dark theme and to move away from amateur style.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Amateur-style does have benefits (namely that almost anyone can make graphics for it)

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> > Design isn't a part of it.

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> then whats the purpose?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Janaka proposes to redo the site (code), but he needs a design ready to go to do so.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'd argue they want choice

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> That CCS was opened with this proposed design: figma.com/file/yT4JTUfvBkAsBDPNPJL1…type=design&node-id=0-1&mode=design

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> thats also design

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/GwmYIzZcinOsZGDQPpWqnzfc

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> oh i see what you mean

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I wouldn't want a dark theme without an option for light

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Agreed

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Janaka didn't make the design. Hammermann09 did.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But as discussed in previous meetings, the primary issue with the proposed design here is really the information hierarchy. The current hierarchy (top level nav items) is superior.

<b​asses:matrix.org> any sneak peaks now that penpot having issues?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> (at least in my opinion)

<b​asses:matrix.org> there are toggles that work without JS

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Haven't put the pen to the pot yet, so to speak. The first part of design is exploration. Seeing what's out there. What's trendy. What we like. What we don't.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I've linked things above on dribbble. Going through behance also.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Fun to peruse the awwwards also

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> awwwards.com

<b​asses:matrix.org> just modern but nothing too fancy

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Aside from hierarchy and some bugs, what is the problem with the hammerman design

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> This is kind of what I wanted to discuss today actually.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The primary problem I had with hammermann design was two things

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont like zano's website btw

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 1. Info hierarchy (as discussed)

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> 2. The graphics are simultaneously too generic, but also too far out of reach of the average person to make.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I realize if we're "upping our game" on the site, keeping the graphics within the means of the average person to make is kind of a pipe dream.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But I recall at least a couple individuals say that was a strength of the current site. So I wanted to see how you all felt about that.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> getmonero-unofficial-beta.vercel.app

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> how easy to maintain astro?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The more elaborate and specialized the graphics are, the more likely if we need a graphic, we'd need to go through a graphic designer.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Instead of the figma, for anyone that wants 2 look

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> hardenedsteel: before I went to defcon I did a deep dive of existing SSGs on the market right now, including Astro.

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> also does it worth to the cost?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It's comparable, and will actually be a bit easier than Jekyll imo.

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> these 2 questions are only concerns to me ig

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Hammermann: dunno if you're around

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Not just to you, but the meeting we had last month had a general consensus that we'd like to move forward on the new site, so the cost was fne.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Not just to you, but the meeting we had last month had a general consensus that we'd like to move forward on the new site, so the cost was fine.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Don't know if you were at that meeting.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> All this said, do we like the STYLE of hammerman's design?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think the color choices and icons etc are fine

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The info hierarchy would change, and the information architecture (what's on each page and how that's structured) should also be changed.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But the style

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Regarding information architecture (ia):

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rstack.com/kGKfTAaAosYOJAsqzfnHEgew

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> this section is particularly cramped and doesn't flow well

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'd be making those adjustments in my design I'm working on.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I personally think hammermans design is good

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm happy to use Hammerman's design as a starting point style-wise for my own stab at this. But didn't know if people wanted to follow the trends and go gradient. :P

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> There are many issues with it in it's current form

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The homepage is cluttered with too ich onfl

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> too much info

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> mostly looks good

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> We need information density without fluff and a big download button

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> A strength of the existing, live design is natural chunking with the blocks.

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> just images look from stock image website

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Seems to be a gradient as well(?) Black<>grey<>black + some background designs in there

<b​asses:matrix.org> ?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> a "free flow" site like the proposed one needs a bit more spacing and thought put into natural chunks since blocks aren't there to do it for you

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> getmonero-unofficial-beta.vercel.ap…astro/community.BjZsu_y7_ZPs6tk.svg

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> like this one

The color pallet is conveniently similar to vosto emisios explainer videos if that changes anything

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> yes this is what I mean by generic

<b​asses:matrix.org> not really, just the things that sells the person at the Homepage

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> No you aren't convinced by getmonero.org

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> and I may be too avant garde here, but I have a personal desire to see Monero be...a little more unique

<b​asses:matrix.org> these are stock and not custom made?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> You go there after you think "I'll look into monero"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> We don't need fluffy marketing language there

Wheres the Download button right?

<b​asses:matrix.org> The only clutter I see on the Homepage is roadmap

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> When I want to look into a project and can't immediately find it's token distribution and something like a whitepaper I'm immediately sketched out

<b​asses:matrix.org> and blog post

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i dont know but it looks like it, as @diego:cypherstack.com said

Also source link

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i dont know but it looks like it, as @diego:cypherstack.com said generic

<b​asses:matrix.org> "Whitepaper" lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> A lot of the stuff on the homepage can be removed

<b​asses:matrix.org> not not the avg person, just highlight differences and what makes monero unique

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "join communities" is a duplicate of the link to "communities" in the header

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> The average person isn't using monero and won't be convinced by fluff

<b​asses:matrix.org> there's a lot of space between componenets

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'll be taking this feedback and will be making a design within the coming weeks.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> communities is on homepage 3x

<b​asses:matrix.org> isn't that what we are trying to change?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And since it seems the general consensus is the style itself of the proposed redesign is fine, I can move forward with that.

<b​asses:matrix.org> wym by "fluff"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> The text on the concept site is mostly garbage right now

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Ok, one more thing I'd like to discuss with you all.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> A lot of text that isn't really saying anything

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> A big question actually.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> What are sections that (in your opinion) MUST be on the home page.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Download

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The short video

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> On the live site we have: explainer video, 2 CTA (about Monero and join community), a sort of "get started" section (choose wallet, get some coins, merchants, FAQ), Guides and Resources, Moneropedia, and Join Community (contributing, MRL, meet community)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> We can kill moneropedia

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Note the question isn't what shouldn't be there.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It's what should.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> download and short video

<b​asses:matrix.org> how monero is secure (wish it was quantum resistant), private, unique, different,

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> the hilarious thing is this was how I designed the live version. But other people have iterated on the home page over the years. I think it's worse in some ways, and better in others.

<b​asses:matrix.org> with very technical details nothing complicated, easy to grasb and convey the meaning

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> monerwiki would be really great

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> monerowiki would be really great

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> web.archive.org/web/20200101010207/https://web.getmonero.org

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Id strip the homepage to basically just how to download monero and a wuock explainer video about it

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> like: en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> this was my original design

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sorrtly, not "how to download", but just a link to the downloads page

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Nah a download verification guide is important

<b​asses:matrix.org> design is old, too much margins, drop down menu feels like 2000s

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not on the homepage..

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> But other than that, yeah, make it as simple as the Bitcoin site

Linking the github repo(s) to show we're in active development?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I meant in regards to the "what makes monero different' portion

<b​asses:matrix.org> not everyone will watch the video, we need some text, slow internet plays a factor

<b​asses:matrix.org> and something to easily copy and paste when someone why monero and not X?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "use monero"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Done

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nobody reads

<b​asses:matrix.org> docs exists

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If they want to read, there should still be a page for that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> just not on the homepage

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> bitcoin.org/en

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> ah just realized

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> hammerman design was heavily inspired by bitcoin.org

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Individuals, Developers, etc.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Simple like this

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I think bitcin.org is a nice blueprint for ia

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You forgot the h

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Alright. All of my personal questions are answered.

<b​asses:matrix.org> z.cash other than animations decent info

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Dunno if anyone else had things to discuss or say regarding this

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Going to make w light mode toggle, right?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> yethir

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Next meeting 3 weeks from now? Feel free to send me agenda items to put on the GitHub issue.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Sounds good. I should definitely have quite a bit of design done by then.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'll be sharing here intermittently for comment.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Thanks guys, this was fun!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Alright guys, looks like we're done here. Thank you for your time, see you around!

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> we even stayed on topic literally the whole meeting

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Couldn't be more proud

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats wut happens when trolls dont show up

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> what about current issues and PRs that is pending?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> rip

<b​asses:matrix.org> pray fate and mario pays attention

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> New site meeting and old site meeting?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Or smush them into one meeting?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> no

<b​asses:matrix.org> 1

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We dont need meetings for merges, we need to follow contribution guides and

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> #electofrn

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> github issues?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2343

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2341

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Just give plowsof super saiyan merge powers and done with it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I endorsed plow but ig he doesn't want to do it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> To bad

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> and retire luigi and binaryfate

<3​21bob321:monero.social> He is conscripted

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I offered as well but fallen of deaf ears. I'm handling merges on -docs rn

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I thought your were on forced leave

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I'd like core to remain the sole website owners tbh

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> im volunteering atm

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> eff that lmao

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> fkn merge every 8 weeks and 18 merge conflicts for 7 month old rpc docs updates

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Core take longer to deploy website then weblate getting fixed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> WASTE of contributor timenl

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Tbh coolify the website

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Merge to main

<3​21bob321:monero.social> OMG website looks new

<b​asses:matrix.org> cap

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Core is like 0.6 people

<b​asses:matrix.org> wot?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Wheres the transparency update?

<b​asses:matrix.org> canaries?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Soom™️

<b​asses:matrix.org> or funds

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Moniez

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think it went from quarterly to 6mth to >1yr

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Funds

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Seraphis or transparency report?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We have a legal policy that we will turn over data to feds, bur no canary

<b​asses:matrix.org> share view key?

<b​asses:matrix.org> got only to choose 1 😭

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Private key*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> view key doesnt show spends

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Excel spreadsheet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Last report bF used 15k to paybhis credit card to cover globee's (fluffy) missing funding

<3​21bob321:monero.social> So roadmap on improving pr merges when?

<b​asses:matrix.org> screenshare fate PC

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We have no control over generalfund, and only learn about what is done with it via trust-me-bro reports

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Teamview

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Same with jetfund

<b​asses:matrix.org> redeem

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> anyway, idc. All i'm saying is i dont rely on them

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Autobots deploy website

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They havent stewarded the project since fluffy was arrested

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Look at docs its being demo with coolify

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> fluffy should back

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Just figureheads

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> rest should go

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Bobbel heads

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fluffy literally JUST left

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Is t that what these “workgroups” are mesnt to be

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Dumped bags and move to Tari

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And when he left, he called for core to be disbanded

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He didnt dump bags. He's merge mining with tari

<3​21bob321:monero.social> We have till march next year

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Mic drop

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> can we fork the community but without core

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I has selsta in basement, so yeah

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sgp registered monerocommunity domains

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Copyright magic

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Property of MAGICgrants now

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Probably

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He offered them to plowsof, idk if offer still on the table

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Anyways, current website merges when

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Getmonero.community?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Did the website ccs turn up for meeting?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> when luigi gets back from vaca, ops me and plowsof goes around fixing conflicts

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Otherwise we can keep making lists and leaving the conflicts to rot

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No conflicts, just resolutions

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Its how the workflow should be