<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Sorry, I'm not aware the full context. Sounds like we're discussing claiming Monero did BasicSwap on our site's timeline?

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I'd say NACK without the BasicSwap developer's explicit consent, and that'd I'd personally be pissed if Serai was added to the Monero site's timeline.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Even with the CCS, the only claim of the Monero project is to the work sponsored by the CCS. That's not "BasicSwap". That's some odd list of deliverables/improvements that I'd need to pull up.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> The Serai comment was as context/color for the BasicSwap discussion as that's the one I can personally speak on. I'd even be frustrated if monero-serai, our Rust Monero lib *which is general purpose and now underlies Cuprate* was claimed on the site.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> We really should be ensuring we respect developers in all regards. Hence my statement the BasicSwap developers should be asked and their consent obtained.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> it was added

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Has anyone reached out to them to ask their thoughts?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I said "maybe", because without, imo, its a NACK/grift altogether

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Let me double check this ...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2360

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Serai not added yet, but is in this PR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i NACK serai and basicswap bcuz ^

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Yes I just saw that

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think its slimy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> monero-project/monero-site #2360#discussion_r1730382482

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I ACK "Integration by Serai DEX". I obviously don't see Serai and Monero as hostile, would appreciate the marketing, and it lets Monero advertise the DEX integration.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> NACK to being claimed as a Monero project.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> my previous comments on old pr about basicswap ACK'd something similar for bsx, about monero bi-directly swaps going live on the platform, but i think its wrong to claim ownership of a project that _we wanted nothing to do with, and even called the devs scammers etc_

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Also, boog900: is apparently reading messages. I think they have less footing to complain about Cuprate, it being a Monero-funded Monero node :p But still good to sync with their thoughts on the representation.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It also brings up the topic of spinning monero-serai to a new governance structure again but that's for a separate room.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> SyntheticBird: ackd so far

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Oh cool 👍

Hardenedsteel dont make pr's adding things that haven't been merged

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> how can we avoid merge conflicts then?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> is it possible to merge ofrnxmr's PR then mine?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or if it will conflict, only merging hardened's pr (containing both commits) and ill close mine

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But hardened, either way, first need to remove serai and basicswap from the pr

How can we avoid merge conflicts -> we sponsor people to lead the website workgroup xD

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Very simple solution I have in mind, maybe add a *External projects we're enthusiastic about* section. Then put Serai and BSX under it ? We can therefore give marketing to external projects not funded by monero, but still related and important enough to be considered a global improvement. A sort *ecosystem* roadmap

Ill have a look at merges soon

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm sure BSX devs and @kayabanerve:matrix.org would more likely accept to be included in such sections

The Less politics / subjectivity the better

We'd inherit the maintenance load of monerica probably

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> That implies some sort of endorsement

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Who is the "we" in "we're"?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Basicswapdex is listed on the decentralized exchanges section of the merchants page

Me, myself, that guy there and his friend

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So "ofrn and his sockpuppets"

Projects we're excited about****

Lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the "we're" was directed at synthetics "we're enthusiastic about "

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> @monero twitter is the most excited twitter. Always excited about something

If basicswapdex forked or dropped their token for monero that would be note worthy for the roadmap

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats why i said _maybe_ after ccs

Ofrnxmr is taking over the world should be listed instead of bsx

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> but right now? Its a particl project with 0 insight from monero except "you guys are scammers" and "we dont trust you"

"in orogress"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 100. I agree

Progress*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> add that to the inprogress / ongoing

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> pessimistic minds you all. obv there will be some endorsement but yk its for projects with potentially big impacts, Serai is without doubt one. and I believe we can misjudge some projects for inclusion without turning it into some blood bath.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> if everyone discussing it do some efforts there is no reason it turn bad (turns into drama).

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Monero" does not and csn not endorse anything

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero has no partners either

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> To quote @fluffypony

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > In case it wasn’t obvious, nobody has a “partnership with Monero” just like nobody has a “partnership with Bitcoin”. Not Zerononcense, not CryptoMedication, nobody.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > You can’t partner with a decentralised cryptocurrency. Anybody claiming otherwise is a scammer."

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> x.com/fluffypony/status/1161520196449906691

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> To claim "we're" excited or enthusiastic, is to claim that all of monero users and contributors agree with you

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> woooo "Partners", threw the big words

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah yes because all monero users care about the website and go in the matrix channels

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> exactly

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> this was ironic

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> the website is important for the people who dont follow news strictly

Just rewrite monero in rust and make your own site in astro

Problem solved

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> why, you'll do it anyway at some point

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> rewrite in astro i mean

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> for me this proposed section is at the same level of endorsement as *Featured page* on wikipedia

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> done

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I gave an explicit alternate phrasing I'd prefer as I'm not calling for removal. Whether or not that phrasing is acceptable and worthwhile/optimal can be itself discussed. An external projects section could also work yet is a larger effort.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I just don't want anyone to see the timeline and think Serai is a Monero project. We've been dismissed on that premise before, and it creates beliefs Serai will always do what's best for Monero when that isn't true. It'll do what's best for itself which is largely in parallel to what's best for it to do for Monero.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> If the decision is to remove it, at least for now, ACK. It wasn't there prior so eh, nothing lost.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Adding "upcoming integration to seraidex" is a better line, but that can be done properly. when serai is released, jt woukd make sense to have "live on seraidex"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We just NACK'd a cex swapper for claiming to be featured by monero

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I mean, it seems obvious to me that cex and proprietary or commercial projects were out

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2330

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> serai or bsx can't be compared to a cex

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bsx ks listed on the decentralized exchanges section pf the website

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Only dex and p2p get large sections with their logos

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cex just get a text line

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> getmonero.org/community/merchants

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But i agree with kaya that "integration/integrated by __DEX" could be acceptable

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Need to start having criterias for adding stuff

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Makes it less complicated

<b​asses:matrix.org> 💯💯💯💯💯

<b​asses:matrix.org> less repeating same thing when someone ask "Why...."

<b​asses:matrix.org> top 1 priority addition to the website

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Job creation for workgroup

<3​21bob321:monero.social> When is next meeting?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2 more weeks

<3​21bob321:monero.social> PG grants ™️ has something at the bottom of there pages for criteria?

<b​asses:matrix.org> at every recommendation page

<b​asses:matrix.org> for monero it will be for only merchant and wallets page as far as I know

<b​asses:matrix.org> getmonero.org/downloads and getmonero.org/community/merchants

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Wallet criteria we have a pr suggestion

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Cryptogrampy wanted us to clarify and only list foss, non tracking wallets, and erc wanted to loosen language so we could yolo list anything

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'm with grampy on only listing wallets that are foss and dont do funny business

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Edge wallet has trackers = i dont think it should be listed

<b​asses:matrix.org> Agree

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-project/monero-site #2143#issuecomment-1722306067

<b​asses:matrix.org> but I heard mixed opinions from you on the need of LWS to evade syncing everytime ofrnxmr

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> edge doesnt support lws

<b​asses:matrix.org> adds convience

<b​asses:matrix.org> convenience*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i asked them a long time ago to remove trackers and support lws, they said asap, then never did it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This wallet charges users a random fee

<b​asses:matrix.org> Wonder how MyMonero & Edge keeps the lights on?

<b​asses:matrix.org> they have subscription options etc?

<b​asses:matrix.org> someone needs to pay for the servers and all of that traffic

<b​asses:matrix.org> and of course development

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Mymonero used to charge a fee to restore a wallet

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or to create one. I dont remember which

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Something like $10usd

<b​asses:matrix.org> EA moment

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Mymonero apps supposedly supoort lws but i couldnt tell you tbh. Havent tried in years

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What we need is a foss lws wallet like mysu

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> or for monero.com to add support for lws

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> this is totally the wrong room for this discussion, but lws would save me a lot in mobile data and battery and make spending when at the grocery store much easier

<b​asses:matrix.org> need to be accessible through to clearnet and no nsfw stuff

<b​asses:matrix.org> basically fire the creator

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> hes on vacation

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And monerochan is disable-able

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The websites are all down, as are the repos

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol very bad

<3​21bob321:monero.social> High security

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Not home, pull lead

<b​asses:matrix.org> mysu has potential but he won't do what it takes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Mysu is literally still my daily driver and the most bug-free monero mobile wallet, period

<b​asses:matrix.org> LWS is supposed to add convenience and mostly likely top choice for normies, but access requires Tor and using all the time as far as I can tell

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> why would lws need tor?

<b​asses:matrix.org> talking about how you can download the wallet

<b​asses:matrix.org> and update it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> oh mysu. Mysu isnt an lws wallet, its a full wallet.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> my point was mysu ui would work well with lws

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Vtnerd lws in gui when?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Never

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i want to see monero-project/monero-lws (lws become "official")

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Maybe after a few years

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its been a few years

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kovri is on moneor-project and that ish was doa

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> expectation? I see...

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Lws _needs_ "official" status for true adoption and community development

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Soon™️

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> not really he can have adoption without being "official" and community development depends on vtnerd. it's their project not ours

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> it can have*

<f​iatdemise:matrix.org> XMRChat uses LWS, works great

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I have it running, but never use it, lol

<3​21bob321:monero.social> #homelabber life

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So does kuno if i read correctly

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> #danisusinghashtagquestionmark

<f​iatdemise:matrix.org> Yup!

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> separate repo, different license, but funded by the CCS and presumably some MAGIC(tm) if he worked on it during his time there none the less

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Magic poached him, doesnt count

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Probably gf funded anyway

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> LWS is now MAGIC copyright and other contributors

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> thank you for playing

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Hahaha

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Im dying

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its hilarious because its plausible lmao

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Vtnerd is magic ™️ now

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Kovri was replaceable, if something replaces lws I am fine with it; maybe paul finally delivers 😂

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> he's working on it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Seraphis or paul's lws, place bets

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> .pbl (place bets later)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Betting opens up aug 2025

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Ad that to seraphis and new website

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Add*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Unrelated but having the new website launch at Seraphis mainnet launch would be ideal

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 🤣

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Website will finish like 2+n yrs before seraphis

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh wait my bad I didn't meant to joke

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Cultrate will finish before seraphis

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the content is being wiped so it'll be quick

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I didn't meant seraphis

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I was talking about Jamtis

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not carrot? 🙃

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Cultrate? Is this a typo?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> no

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> trolling i see

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> you think seraphis will come b4 cuprate finishes?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I don't

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> learn to read

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Seraphis meetings dont even have agendas

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ok, but i asked "carrot? Or jamtis?"

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> seraphis codebase + fcmp++ (seraphis is complete already don't worry)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Whatever comes after FCMP++

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> because it will be in the window where the website could finish

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Both

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Jeffro wants to do carrot > jamtis

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But idk if anyone else on on board with carrot

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> carrot > jamtis means carrot then jamtis or carrot over jamtis

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> if content/translations starts from scratch and we have a few main pages, then site will definitely be ready quickly (in my non site dev/designer opinion)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Then

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ok

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah I hardly see the website taking more than 1.5 years

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> but I also hardly see the website being finished at FCMP++ mainnet launch

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Website will take 2.5 months if we ever merge it

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> anyway point is aligning the website release with a hardfork would be ideal

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ? but design isn't ready and janaka ccs not even accepted

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> janakas ccs was accepted my community 3 months ago

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> By*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It wasnt merged bcuz luigi is blind and thought there was no website workgroup

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Had to have 2 meetings to decide to use the current design

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah ok I did understand that janaka was waiting for design to be ready. I thought the CCS was put on hold

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (the design is ready)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> afaik style is ready but @diego:cypherstack.com haven't finished

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah, but after 2 meetings we decided to use the initial design

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I can edit the website with "inspect element"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The changes needed arent anything major

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Different menus, moving content, removing some content

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Uh no we didn't.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The general style yes.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The general style is being used as the basis for what I'm currently designing.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But it's still going to be quite different than what's presented.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> then we vote again :P ?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> General style meaning mostly flat, slight gradient, continuous, and unblocked.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'm not knocking it til i see it

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I mean sure, I can all but guarantee mine will be objectively better.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Design is not a subjective thing like most dev types like to think.

we're merging janakas proposal now right? repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> No.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I thibk zano's website is 🚮

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> There is subjectivity to preference, sure.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think hammermans basic design style is 🔥

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But if a change of color or size helps the most users, accomplish their goals in less time and with less confusion, it is objectively better design.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Design is not just wallpaper or veneer.

can we not just raise the 45 xmr for the website dev who we need to work on the design (soon)?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> He requested we don't because there's no guarantee that what I create will be 45 XMR worth of work.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It may be more.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> He is not committing to a price until the new design is approved and he specs it out for development.

ah yes, the designer will reveal pandoras box to the dev

understood, lets wait xd

<b​asses:matrix.org> don't be too creative sir

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> We started the design process proper. Done with exploratory portion.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> can we get the dopewallet logo in there?

🦆

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Easter egg from my goose

<b​asses:matrix.org> penpot is working?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Got some good ideas in exploratory phase. I'm glad we did it.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Lol. I wish.

<b​asses:matrix.org> or the design will be finished and website too befoe it starts working?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It is. But we're starting this in figma.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 🦢

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Penpot is up and going man.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> design.cypherstack.com

<b​asses:matrix.org> so what is the point of penpot?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Oh lol

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Not Cypher stack

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> design.getmonero.org

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I'm so used to typing Cypher Stack.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> We are going to put the design in penpot as well probably for people to iterate on if they please.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Have penpot registration been fixed btw?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But people are wanting this design fast. Don't want to make janaka wait for too long.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Dan Miller ^?

<b​asses:matrix.org> no email

<b​asses:matrix.org> Need to buy a sysadmin course on Udemy to get this stuff together

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It's a good job maybe. Look into bro.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> But what we really need is more cryptographers.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> All yall nerds start studying math.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/bOXgqGihrzuaYXJcCXyETkyO

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I would like but finding introductory maths-based cryptography resources are hard to find

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Flappywallet*

<b​asses:matrix.org> search reddit

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> pll.harvard.edu/subject/mathematics/free

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> my anon in christ 🙏 I meant introductory cryptography resources. I'm good enough at linear/general algebra

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-03-differential-equations-spring-2010

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> coursera.org/learn/crypto

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> amazon.com/Introduction-Mathematica…rgraduate-Mathematics/dp/1493917102

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Shamir sharing sarang secrets

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Thanks for the links will look into it