btc address should stay

in case satoshi decides to donate his coins to monero

imagine the headlines

<q​uickex:matrix.org> facts

<q​uickex:matrix.org> Hey, with pleasure will answer any additional questions about our pr #2318, wonna sort it out till following deploy of merchants page

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> revise your ToS

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Criteria for adding exchanges ?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> no, but their current ToS is very strict

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2318#issuecomment-2229467316

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> we list simpleswap

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The main issue is that they work with complaint exchanges and that non-fungible funds are going to be frozen at will by any and all compliant exchanges

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the same funds being flagged by quickex, changenow etc, will be flagged by kraken, okx, binance etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The main question should be "do we list cex's?"

<3​21bob321:monero.social> After KYC verification, the client will be refunded with a deduction of a 5% commission. (in total 10%)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> commission on refund is call stealing

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> just sayin

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> passthrough swappers are a hard sell for listing, since its all the same thing just in a different wrapper

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> we also need to test the swappers and check the fees used to know if the swappers or their partners are using fingerprintable fees

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> fixedfloat were using non standard fees afaik

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i warned them but didnt care

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> they hacked twice anyways lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I thought theyr fees were standard

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Their

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> their fees were abnormally high but not sure if standard or not

i remember when stealthex where trying to get listed on getmonero. a rep appeared on monerotopia and it seemed to be a very important question for viewers to know what happens when a transaction is flagged . the swap is refused, and the funds are returned, which was the answer that people wanted to hear

stealthex are currently a C on trocador, so not perfect. fixedfloat is a B

no idea how ranks work of course. "wizardswap" is an A on trocador, never heard of it, i do live under a rock so its hard for me to judge swappers

a test swap of 600~usd equiv of btc -> xmr has every swapper in the list 100% insured, except quick-ex who is 0% insured on troc.. so theyre not happy with something

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Create a slush fund for testing swappers before adding to website ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> quickex responded about trocador above

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "> <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> My main question would be how come you were demoted from ~b to ~d ranking on trocador? Was there some failed aml dispute ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> quickex:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Our status should have changed to "B" again soon, already waiting the feedback from Trocador.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It wasnt because of failed disputes, there were some cases when our LP stopped orders because of some suspended actions - like splitting the funds (but all the customers who sent the docs, got refund). Trocador didnt like it and downgrade us. And last month we were working on integration with new LPs and recently finalized it.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Btw we counted amount of AML cases and it was 0,2% from whole amount of thousands of orders. "

<3​21bob321:monero.social> But still have the requirement for aml

wizardswap and LetsExchange are rated A, why dont we list them

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> wizardswap has their own reserves, exch does too, i believe changenow does as well

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Changenow does their own aml checks

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ive never used letsexchange. Ive actually spoken to Wizardswap admin. Particl community member

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Changenow took 1 day once to swap during the “great useage war”

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> wizardswap failed for me before (during ddos) and i had to contact them manually for a refund.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> A rated exchanges on trocador have their own reserves and dont check aml afaik. So if letsexchange is A rated, i assume they have their own reserves as well

to me, stealthex seems to be the typical swapper without its own reserves that has LP's

i cant find any commision scraping or 0% refund if no kyc is given after 30 days (shotgun kyc... but... fixedfloat are known for this.. we list them, and theyre a B on troc)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Maybe we add critera =p2p or dex

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Cex no no

sorry, we _used_ to list FF*

we have no criteria :( i've seen wallet2 fees, your own liquidity (proof of reserves? how often? and how much monero?) , hidden service a plus, is there shotgun kyc (like quickex) or are funds returned like stealthex claimed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Shotgunkyc isnt quickex, but their partners

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Quickex has a feature to check the funds before sending that can avoid the kyc tho

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> and i almost guarantee that kraken etc are also going to block your dirty btc deposits

its the commission which in my small view of swappers (glancing at our swpapers kyc/aml docs is abnormal). it could be justifiable if it where 5% or max $XYZ to cover their admin work during the due diligence checks/investigation

checking funds before sending is a huge ++

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The big joke is that the aml issues arent monero issues

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont think any swapper has ever blocked a monero deposit

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "They blocked my mixed btc!!" Sounds like a bitcoin problem, not a swapper problem, and not a monero problem

yeah morpheus confirmed, xmr has zero issues. fungible 😭

that does not exclude people from the generic aml checks where amounts are in excess of xyz

or does it? i dont know

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> quickex confirmed to me in DM that amounts for xmr has never been an isssue

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> That all issues were deposits of transparent coins

so why can stealthex simply return the dity coins without taking 100% of them

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Lmaolmao binance i think?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They put out a newsletter years ago saying that if you deposit mweb ltc that they wont refund it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> let me find it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> binance.com/en/support/announcement…eb-61d4510b1ada4ba78b5384e8c2d3527c

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Any LTC deposits made to Binance through the MWEB function will not be received or returned as we are unable to verify the sender's address, resulting in the direct loss of funds. To ensure security of your funds, please do not deposit LTC through the MWEB function."

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Binance stole funds and didn't give a fk hahah

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "2022-06-13"

if quickex present them selves as a CEX then 100% after 30 days would be fine then

sadly they are an instant swapper

need to clarify why only they(?) charge a 5% commission and and take 100% if no kyc provided in 30 days. if that 5% or 100% thing is their liquidity provider(s) then why are they using that LP.. and how is stealthex finding LPs that let em return dirty coins :S

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> if binance is a LP than what is quickex supposed to do if someone deposits mweb?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> All of the LP's are compliant exchanges

do quickex support mweb

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Almost no swapper does

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Trocador warns against sending mweb to a lot of their partners.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I imagine wizardswap and exch are exceptions

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Trocador also warns against sending mixed funds

iirc mweb is coming to cake? so that would be interesting

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Cake has mweb already

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> shameless plug: Basicswap is also an mweb wallet

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Shill

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What can i say? Litecoin is cheapest on bsx and monero is better rate than wizard or exch

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> by judging from their site; it works without javascript + has .onion link + no ToS

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> however pretty expensive 2.2%

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> monero-project/monero-site #2410

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Your suggestions are basically "dex-only"?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i didn't suggest anything yet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The examples you gave

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No kyc excludes every traditional cex

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> its just example, we may have scoring system instead

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i'm not against delisting every traditional cex

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> i suggest for `Exchange must support (integrate) XMR natively. (This would delist Bisq and HodlHodl.)`

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But kyc is a choice, not a requisite

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Some ppl have no problem with kyc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> there should be no expectation of a "no-kyc" experience when using a regulated service

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dv chain is an otc liq provider. Expecting them to be no-kyc is just idealism that has nothing to do with monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero isnt an anarchy coin, its money period.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Now, i agree with removing services that dont support xmr natively, like hodl and bisq

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> From my limited experience as a reddit moderator, most posts asking where to buy never mention hold and surprisingly very rarely bisq

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I also think we should list established and monero focused directories like monerica and xmrbazaar

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> because why we're advising buy BTC then swap

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> the elephant in the room isnt merchants or dex - those are easy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The elephant is what to do about traditional cex and swappers

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The real elephant in the room is why luigi is called luigi in the first place

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Nintendo could sue monero project

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> they shouldn't be listed if they're not interested in XMR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi is the real luigi. Ninentendo modelled the char after him

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> brb

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Bisq is interested

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> we're advertising their site and we get literally nothing.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I mean Bisq2

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> they always ignored XMR community

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> They are literally going to implement Native BTC/XMR swap in Bisq2

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> 90-95% of bisq volume is XMR and they refuse to add XMR/Fiat in bisq2

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah ok, i thought we were talking of swapping not just fiat onramp

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> there are many swappers at this moment, fiat is the problem

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> there are many place you can buy cryptocurrency then swap to monero

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> * Privacy

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> * Non-custody

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> * FOSS

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> * Fiat support

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> * Integration of XMR

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Would you call Hveno non-custody?

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Haveno is non-custodial but its in a grey area for decentralization

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Gm maybe grey area for non-custodial as well, since disputed trades are no longer non custodial, but shared custody

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> S/gm/hmm

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I'm not sure i'd refer to unstoppable swaps as decentralized, but it is non-custodial and trustless

<q​uickex:matrix.org> btw Quickex is moving forward to operating with own liquidity but no ETA yet

<q​uickex:matrix.org> thats why we implemented the feature of aml check score, just in case.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Would like to confirm again, these transfers that were blocked were deposits of not-monero, right?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And was monero involved in the transfer at all? (buying or selling monero)

<h​ardenedsteel:monero.social> hodlhodl works in same way

<q​uickex:matrix.org> yep, also discussed with Trocador, exchanges which have A rate - operate with own liquidity

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> hodlhodl is a centralized network tho

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno is an mostly decentralized network but requires centralized functionality to utilize functionality

<q​uickex:matrix.org> exactly, that actually helped us to prevent some clients making the deposits and get blocks afterwards

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Were the blocked swaps deposits of xmr?

<q​uickex:matrix.org> Nope, We can guarantee no blocks on XMR swaps

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> this is a point i'm trying to make. Any exchange blocking abc btc coin isnt a monero issue, its an issue with their blockchain

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> On the plus side, this guarantees that the transparent surveillance coins that you get from quicker are "clean"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Whereas exchanges like wizard or bsx might send your "dirty" coins

<q​uickex:matrix.org> Absolutely. If we are talking only about XMR swaps - 100% greenlight from Quickex side

<q​uickex:matrix.org> And ofc exchanges which operate with their own liquidity basically have -5% worse rate and kinda high chance to get dirty coins in return

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) monero should be 20%