<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: you're the website admin right?

i can merge things on github, no hands on access to the backend servers, thats maintained by the core team

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> can you check my matrix DM?

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Hey everyone

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Is the new version of the website planned to replace the old one?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yes

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> When?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> tuesday

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Seriously?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i jest

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Is there any work being done on the website now?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> always

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it has slowed due to other obligations / priorities, but still needs work done

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> such as moneropedia needs to be pruned/expanded/clarified/etc

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Is someone do this solo?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> possibly

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> And on what funding basis is the development work being carried out?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> none

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the website was funded and is finished, and is now up to the community to fill in the data

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its not difficult work, just requires some time

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (the moneropedia stuff)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> problem with the old moneropedia entries is that they are all over the place, poorly written, outdated, and some even inaccurate from the time they first went up, so they cant be migrated over 1:1

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> beta.getmonero.org -- you can see that its largely complete

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> torrent hosting, translations, blog backporting, link resolution in blogs. mostly just smoothing rough edges

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Yeah, it looks good, but what about updating CCS?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> updating what ccs?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nobody is going to fund a ccs to fill in 15 moneropedia entries, if that is what youre asking?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> especially when it will likely be handed off to a LLM and finished in 17 minutes

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> No, I'm asking about updating the CCS part of the website.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there is a CCS for that open for funding

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/redshade-ccs-fullstack-overhaul.html

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> I've seen this, I find it strange that so few proposals are published.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> wdym?

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> I mean that there are few participants in this funding program. Have you thought about expanding it?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> people donate to what they want to donate to, in amounts that they choose to donate

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its anonymous. nobody knows who is funding what. the best we can do is spread the work and hope people are willing to fund it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "You have to drum up support for your proposal during the first two stages. Do not expect others (especially the Core Team or other trusted members of the community) to do it for you. Others may share and support if they are excited about your project, but ultimately it is nobody's responsibility but your own."

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> reddit, twitter, asking for donations from other people who use ccs regulary, etc are all ideas to increase the funding

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but if nobody using ccs donates to it, maybe they dont care? who knows

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i would have thought this could be funded by other proposers, since it ultimately targets them first and foremost. could just be that other proposers dont feel a new ccs website is beneficial? again, i dont know. cant speak for anyone else

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but, in general, its been slow going for donations. proposers need to get back to self-promotion and trying to drum up support

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> Don't you find it strange that there is only one model of voluntary funding — donations? If you contrast this model with commercial development, it looks extremely inefficient. It can certainly be modified to achieve better results.

I hear that centralization is more efficient

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> If you compare the number of commercial and open-source products of the same quality, the ratio would be 1000 to 1 or more. And all because there is no adequate funding model for free software — people make projects out of enthusiasm or for micro-donations and later have no income from them, which I consider fundamentally wr [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/xZzs56QLMEdQdFVi ]

what do you propose?

<jpk68:matrix.org> MIT OpenCourseWare has a great CS lecture on performance optimization, where the professor describes performance as a currency that can be used to 'purchase' other things.

<jpk68:matrix.org> Centralizing stuff can often be more efficient, but at what cost?

<jpk68:matrix.org> Visa is much better than Monero, if the only thing you're counting is TPS

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> nioc: I suggest first acknowledge the problem, then can move on to development — the concept for such a system already exists.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what problem

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The problem of lack of funding in open source development

for you personally?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> no

what is claude getting at

kuno, xmrchat, wishlist, a shell script + monero-wallet-rpc, open collective and the plethora of crypto currency projects who fund their own devs using various systems , i forgot flipstarters for bch

btcpayserver has a donations page, bitcart too i think

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they are asking why redshade hasnt been funded yet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and that ccs donations are inadequate, and that we need some commercial model to obtain funding

but some people get funded quickly still

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> theres nothing stopping someone from getting commercial funding towards their ccs, externally, through magic, kuno, btcpay etc etc

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> You misunderstood — I didn't mean a shift to commercial funding, but was talking about modifying the current donation model.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> from what to what?

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> From ordinary donations to a systematic model of ongoing project funding.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so, print money?

systematically

are there any other projects with this funding model? a dev fee?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ya, dev fee

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or premine

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ir both

<jpk68:matrix.org> We should get Core to lease a nice office with microkitchens and free snacks, and then we all go and work in person

<jpk68:matrix.org> Productivity will be through the roof

<jpk68:matrix.org> (joking)

why restrict ourselves , lets do both and allow anyone to put a proposal up for funding. decentralised freedom!

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> rebrand to kuno

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> plowsof: That's exactly the point — such models don't exist, so one needs to be created.

im sure i created one, maybe i dreamt it, but if its true what you say then we're in serious need of something similar to exist

id suggest doing a bit of research first though

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> rucknium.me/donate

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> plowsof: It's quite feasible, but it will take a lot of time to develop.

jpk68 obv I wasn't suggesting to change to a something centralized

<321bob321> Monero head office is a letterbox in Panama

<jpk68:matrix.org> nioc: Yes, didn't think you were :)

<rbrunner7> I am quite sure that if (big "if") a "systematic model of ongoing project funding" exists that fits Monero and is feasible, it needs a spark of genius to come up with it, and then it would be possible to describe it with a few sentences.

<rbrunner7> "Everything is obvious once you know the answer."

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> @rbrunner7: It can be described, but hardly anyone will understand it in just a few sentences. I'm not sure they'll understand even if an article is written on the topic. Most people tend to compare ideas to something that already exists and are incapable of imagining something completely new.

<syntheticbird> @rbrunner7: this so much true

<jpk68:matrix.org> @wrdn_13:matrix.org: Crazy statement from someone who is probably using an LLM to write this argument, judging by the number of em dashes

<syntheticbird> @jpk68:matrix.org: tbf could be just translation

<rbrunner7> Maybe we talk to an LLM which wants to get funded itself, and is fishing for ideas?

<jpk68:matrix.org> Boris Cherny and his consequences...

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> how do you even type an em dash

<jpk68:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qEcinkoQlqbRPcCvouPdQgEP.png (clipboard.png)

<syntheticbird> @thomasbuilds:matrix.org: unicode composition on keyboard

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> English is not my native language, so yes, it's a neural translation. If you can understand Russian, I can write in my own language.

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> I don't understand lol

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> @wrdn_13:matrix.org: all right that's fine just say it though. know we know

<syntheticbird> @thomasbuilds:matrix.org: For example on my input system and keyboard I hold ALT GR and type the unicode decimal code with my keypad. When I release ALT GR it prints the unicode character

<jpk68:matrix.org> The only Russian word I know is "Нейрослоп" /s

<syntheticbird> @wrdn_13:matrix.org: I get the sentiment but Monero is not meant to slow itself because its major userbase don't understand it.

<wrdn_13:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: That's exactly why I'm writing in this developers' chat and not in the Monero community chat. Here there's a chance that someone will understand what I'm talking about.