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apotheon
What's the most Coinbase-like, easy-ass way to buy nontrivial quantities of Monero, or at least BTC (for later conversion to Monero), that isn't KYC? Does it exist?
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apotheon
By "nontrivial", I mean like a few thousand USD.
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apotheon
. . . and by Coinbase-like, I mean "Someone with no knowledge of stock trading won't have the Kraken experience of not having any clue how to actually buy something."
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nioc
So easy buy with fiat that is non kyc
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apotheon
um
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apotheon
What are you saying?
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nioc
sounds like a unicorn
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apotheon
yeah
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apotheon
I mean . . . there are things that do it, but they're all hard for a newb to use.
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apotheon
Apparently TradeOgre does . . . or at least did.
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nioc
Never had fiat
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apotheon
I don't hear good things about it being beginner-friendly.
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nioc
They now have usdt
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apotheon
ah
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apotheon
Is that how TradeOgre did it?
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apotheon
okay
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nioc
No customer service to speak of at TO
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apotheon
sure
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apotheon
no customer service to speak of at a lot of things
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apotheon
Okay, I guess that clears it up. Maybe the things I've seen that don't look newbie-friendly and don't require KYC are just not fiat-accessible.
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apotheon
. . . but then, I don't know why nobody with the ability to make a user-friendly interface got into that space, either.
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apotheon
The closest I've seen is Cake Wallet.
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apotheon
So . . . correct me if I'm wrong:
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apotheon
With Cake Wallet, one can use a credit card to buy BTC, then use the BTC to buy Monero, all within the application. Right?
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Henry151
so how real is atmoic swap? if i have some btc can i just atomic swap it for monero and have it vanish into thin air?
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kayabaNerve
Someone has XMR. You have BTC. You agree on a price. You can trade it with a guarantee you won't scam each other. Then, you have XMR.
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Henry151
sounds like a good deal to me. What's the premium in a typical transaction of say, a few thousand USD?
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yanmaani1
apotheon: kraken, or coinbase -> btc -> crypto to crypto
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apotheon
Henry151: I don't think there have been enough atomic swaps yet to be able to make much of a comment about "typical" transaction premiums.
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kayabaNerve
COMIT market makers should have publicly known rates and there should be a few of them. It should also be fixed, not scaling with quantity Henry151
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apotheon
.val btc
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Wallet
apotheon: BTC -> USD • Avg: ≈64892.39 • ccc/Coinbase: ≈$65005.18 24HΔ: 1.48% Vol: 13.91K [0m] • cmc: ≈$64779.59 24HΔ: 1.35% 7DΔ: 11.52417% [< 15m]
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apotheon
.val xmr
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Wallet
apotheon: XMR -> USD • Avg: ≈262.65 • ccc/btse: ≈$262.85 24HΔ: 2.99% Vol: 7.39K [0m] • cmc: ≈$262.45 24HΔ: 2.87% 7DΔ: -3.76% [< 15m]
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apotheon
Henry151: If you go to the getmonero.org site's merchants page, near the bottom is a section about atomic swaps with a link to an atomic swap provider.
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apotheon
Henry151: I just checked, and that provider looks like it works through a Tor connection.
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apotheon
I'm curious about what would be "safer" and more anonymous -- Cake Wallet to buy BTC then atomic swaps through Tor, or Cake Wallet transactions for both parts.
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apotheon
I need to see some analysis of the opsec options for various paths. I'm still not familiar enough with all the technologies involved (especially Cake Wallet, but also some stuff related to atomic swaps, Bisq, and so on) to be sure I'm evaluating things properly.
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garth
Any update for increasing Monero’s ring size via Triptych or Lelantus or Seraphis or whatever?
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nioc
garth triptych makes multisig complicated which seems to be a stopper for it
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nioc
seraphis seems the most promising and a poc was recently funded for it and is currently being worked on
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nioc
no timeline ofc
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nioc
as for ring size somewhere from 64 to 256
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Mochi101
We need +7 billion to be truly safe.
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Mochi101
1 ring for every living soul.
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Mochi101
True plausible deniability.
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nioc
there are other benefits to Seraphis such as improved watch only wallets and the ability to prove txs and other info while giving away less info than is currently required
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nioc
Mochi101: sounds like you are only counting humans
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Mochi101
Did the dolphins start using Monero?
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Mochi101
They really are smart!
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nioc
Cat has her own wallet
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Mochi101
hehehe
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apotheon
Software agents of corporate financial instruments could also get involved. Now we have to count them, as well as humans and dolphins.
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apotheon
. . . and what about pseudonyms?
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hyc
my tamagotchi has its own wallet
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apotheon
Given these options, what's the safest (most private) path from USD to Monero?
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apotheon
CakeWallet
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apotheon
USD->BTC->XMR
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apotheon
Cake USD->BTC, AtomicSwap BTC->XMR
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apotheon
Cake USD->BTC, Bisq BTC->XMR
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apotheon
Coinbase USD->Stable, Bisq Stable->XMR
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apotheon
Bisq_Network
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apotheon
USD->BTC->XMR
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apotheon
damn
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apotheon
Those newlines . . . sorry. I was copypasta-ing from a context that screwed up my pasts here.
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apotheon
. . . and is there a safer approach that involves only Cake, Samourai, and Monerujo wallets?
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apotheon
Even partial answers are welcome.
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moneromooo
the
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apotheon
The?
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moneromooo
(you're welcome)
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apotheon
Thanks!
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apotheon
I was hoping for at least partially *useful* answers, like "Dude, do both USD->BTC and BTC->Monero in the same wallet!"
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apotheon
(if that's a good piece of advice)
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apotheon
s/Even partial/Even *useful* partial/
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moneromooo
I jumped the gun didn't I.
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apotheon
maybe
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moneromooo
I thought "hey, I can be useful!"
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moneromooo
Oh well.
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apotheon
You get a lot of leeway, though, in part because it was funny.
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moneromooo
That was the intent. Glad to see it wasn't wasted.
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apotheon
I take it you don't feel like you have any insight to offer on this.
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moneromooo
The love of stupid jokes/puns will be my undoing someday.
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apotheon
It has probably already been my undoing.
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» moneromooo looks at the backlog for hte actual question...
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apotheon
. . . or contradoing, perhaps; whatever you call it when it prevents your doing before it even happened.
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apotheon
moneromooo: Did you read the question yet?
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moneromooo
Yes. I do not have much to offer there though, having sold my own privacy down the river to an exchange :(
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moneromooo
Haveno might be part of a future answer to this...
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moneromooo
Maybe I'm being foolish, but small exchanges are less likely to be involved in a large data sharing scheme.
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moneromooo
s/sharing/forced sharing/
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Lyza
Bisq / Haveno seems cool except that bank transfers to random people you don't know almost seems more of a red flag than having an exchange account
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Lyza
I've been liking Strike --> FixedFloat though. That, or something like cashapp, won't necessarily look crypto related to your bank
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apotheon
What are the risks with Cake?
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Lyza
but of those options I guess I'd go cake then atomic swap or bisq. Fees for buying in cake are kinda high though, and bisq / atomic swaps both tend to cahrge a price premium too
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Lyza
Cake uses ChangeNow on the back end so, I guess the same as for using that website directly
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apotheon
hmm
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Lyza
centralized exchange, shows up on your bank statement as obviously being a crypto purchase
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apotheon
I don't know much at all about ChangeNow.
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apotheon
gotcha
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apotheon
probably marginally better than something like Coinbase
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Lyza
I would imagine so
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apotheon
What's the risk with buying with USD through Bisq?
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apotheon
I'm not sure how the "random people" thing fits in. Do you mean whoever's running Bisq?
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Lyza
like I said I'm personally a little sketched out by doing electronic transfers to people I don't know, like my bank might ask questions
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Lyza
Bisq is a peer to peer thing so buying with USD on Bisq means buying from somebody by sending to their bank account.... might also support like Amazon gift cards and stuff. I know LocalMonero does
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ndorf
i do Zelle transfers to/from strangers somewhat regularly, no questions so far
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Lyza
good data point
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apotheon
Lyza: Ah, that's interesting. I haven't used Bisq for an onramp, so I didn't know that's how it works.
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drew
how large is the trimmed blockchain atm? monerodocs.org was suggesting it was ~31G around January, but I just got this message when running monero-blockchain-prune: 2021-10-21 22:13:39.999 I LMDB Mapsize increased. Old: 4612MiB, New: 5124MiB
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drew
oh wait, read that as 51G but that's 5G lol, I have a ways to go
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moneromooo
If you mean pruned, it's about 50 GB.
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moneromooo
Sorry, 40.
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drew
pruned, right
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psionic
MOONRIVER TO THE FUCKING MOON�
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psionic
MOONRIVER TO THE FUCKING MOON��
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psionic
MOONRIVER TO THE FUCKING MOON��
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psionic
MOONRIVER TO THE FUCKING MOON�
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psionic
WHALES GO ALL IN BUY MOVR TODAY
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fluffypony
wut
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apotheon
psionic: What?