Men, learned helplessness is a damn of a disgrace.

Sad to see people like that.

❓

!

guys so, if i buy monero from an exchange that i got kyc'd on and then i send that monero to my wallet obv. now my wallet is "what i call, tagged"

can the exchange then forever after see my wallets TX? i understand they cant see the amounts but can they see transactions coming and going in and out my wallet

Tag: (No tag assigned) <--- also whats this?

in the monero-cli walleet

s/waleet/wallet

wormrobot, no... they can't

wormrobot: It's only linked to the address that received the transaction.

wormrobot: If someone comes up with a way to identify a whole wallet from one transactional address, that would be a huge fucking cryptanalysis win, in a way that could make a cryptographer's whole career.

so subaddresses fix this issue?

That's how it's supposed to work in Monero, yeah.

someone correct me if I'm mistaken (e.g. Mochi101)

apotheon: im not a cryotographer cuz im not good at math but it interests me and yes if someone was able to crack math in that way then is a problem for sure.

This is basically the reason that all the most basic opsec advice for Monero says to use a different address for every transaction.

if an exchange deposits XMR to your wallet at 73468675367, it can't see you move it out from 73468675367

yeah, that too

apotheon: Ahh very good, also noticed on the monero-cli that it says "(Used)" after an address was used for a TX

Mochi101: ahhh very intersting, because this has been buggin my mind lately

why does the wallet prevent me from emitting a TX before it reaches 10 confirms

would the other nodes reject it?

s/intersting/interesting

for anti-DoS purposes or something

mawk, for privacy

corellation attack or something

correlation attack or something

ah

but could I override it if I wanted?

apotheon: Is it worth it to even use different addresses in cases were you are receiving monero from the same source on a regular basis (i.e. making weekly purchases on kraken and having them sent to the same wallet)? I understand giving out different address to different people, but seems overkill if you keep monero from the same source from my understanding.

Mochi101: amazing train of thought

wormrobot: I could offer some more advice for covering your trail in terms of opsec.

yeji-weji[m]: I always have the same address to receive from kraken

apotheon: pls!

because it's a pain to add new addresses

how so?

address new

in the CLI

apotheon: I'm a privacy and security researcher / wannabe c++ dev

lol

I think he means it is a pain to add a new withdrawal address on kraken

ahhh

yeah ok

yeji-weji[m]: If the source is going to know about it anyway, then the only benefit for different addresses is that the logs kept by that person's wallet wouldn't show transactions with the same address, so if some bad actor got access to that person's wallet logs it wouldn't look like an ongoing relationship between the two of you.

yeji-weji[m]: . . . as far as I'm aware. I don't claim to know everything about this.

Mochi101: thats how i found crypto and cryptography and then fell in love with the early days of cryptography and the cypherpunk movement etc..

In the case of something like a centralized exchange, they intentionally aggregate your addresses in their DBs, so don't expect using different addresses to help there.

wormrobot: When you want to keep your monero stuff as clean as possible, it's not a terrible idea to move it around a little bit from time to time, even just sending from one address on a given wallet to another. Don't just move the same quantity around a lot, though: move a different amount each time to avoid someone noticing a lot of transactions of effectively the same quantity, which might

be used for some kind of analysis.

Mochi101: it's a pain to add new address in kraken

my current way of obfuscating my TX's and wallets is to first buy BTC then Xchng for xmr using subaddresses

I meant

wormrobot: You might be better off doing that with Litecoin than BTC. Transactions are much faster and cheaper.

apotheon: Great point yes i think that might be the next move

Where you go to exchange between cryptocurrencies will have an effect on how likely someone is to realize you own Monero, if that's a concern.

apotheon: the xchange i use to swap is decentralized

fake email sign up etc.. done

I suppose a basic example to illustrate the risk of re-using the same address would be something like:

KYC Exchange (i.e. Kraken) knows one of your addresses.

Else where in what you think is an anonymous environment you give you out your address (same one that Kraken knows).

If someone with the ability to see Kraken's history and they also stumble upon your address is this other context.. They can connect the dots and identify you.

I kinda think Litecoin is the best choice for that. It benefits from strong ease of finding people who will deal in it, because it got into the game early enough to be supported by almost as many payment processors as BTC, plus it's fast and easy, and there's even a newly added MimbleWimble based privacy mechanism -- not comparable to Monero, but better than anything on BTC mainnet.

wormrobot: good plan, regarding DEXes

s/is/in/

yeji-weji[m]: Yeah, actually a more interesting way to frame that (I think) is if you do a deal with someone outside of Kraken, and some bad actor is surveilling that person, then that bad actor gets access to Kraken logs, that person can check whether your address is in those logs, find out who you are, then go to your house and beat your knees with a pipe until you give up your wallet seed and

password.

kinda reverse the approach: individual -> Kraken, vs. Kraken -> individual

and that is why you stay strapped

that too

apotheon: This is great knowledge btw

I guess I never thought about in that reverse direction

Don't do the movie thing with gun holsters in obvious places at home. You don't want an intruder arming with your guns while sneaking around. Use bolted-in-place quick-access gun safes, maybe, if you want to do that.

apotheon: i thought i was being paranoid.. but i see that you understand my point of view

wormrobot: glad to help

I've been in national security (at the "tip of the spear" so to speak), private security, computer security, privacy consulting, and software security, so I get the need to know about this kinda stuff. Broadly, that'd be several fields of both physical and information security, I guess.

I suppose the private security thing is deceptively simplified, now that I think about it.

Anyway, some amount of paranoia is practical.

Don't expect me to be a serious expert in any of those, at this point, but I still think like someone who knows/cares about security.

apotheon: i started out with info sec abroad and it lead me here, im young, im in my early 20's not gonna dox myself but yes i started with info sec and learning about computer systems and messing with different os's and learning their file system structure etc.. then messed around with wifi hacking and computer hacking in general then, decided to learn c++ started and now im here lulz

yeji-weji[m]: If you're also concerned about state actors, they'd be able to track you down and black bag you even more surely than the guys who just want to steal your bytes, but at least they might conceivably be bogged down by red tape, maybe, if you're lucky.

So if you want to use a non-kyc decentralized exchange to obtain monero though, most people are having to come into it with other existing crypto right to swap for monero? Is that how it works?

If so - wouldn't you want to acquire this say bitcoin or litecoin in an anonymous manner before hand?

The username I have here pretty much "doxes" me, sadly. I'm too fucking lazy to go fully pseudonymous for casual discussions like this.

yeji-weji[m]: yep, DEXes require some kind of non-fiat digital currency for exchange

yeji-weji[m]: You could reasonably cultivate friends who are into cryptocurrencies and, at some point, offer to buy some off of them at a small premium, then use that to exchange for Monero on a DEX, though. Just make sure you know what cryptocurrencies a given DEX supports so you know whether what someone else has is something you'd want.

yeji-weji[m]: The person with whom you're trading would know who you were, but they wouldn't have KYC digital paper trails in a one-stop shop for feds and security crackers to ransack.

apotheon: hahahah

Oh, by the way, if you haven't used Litecoin before, you can buy some just for swapping to Monero-or-whatever, and resolve to never use Litecoin for anything else, to ensure that you never sell it off, which makes it much harder to trace your Litecoin activity in a way that leads to knowledge of whether you used it to buy other cryptocurrencies or just spent it or lost it or whatever.

also, follow the rule of not spending in the same quantities that you buy when trading to another cryptocurrency, if you can avoid it

I wonder if I'll disappear in the next few years. I could get tortured to death for info or black bagged; I could move to Mexico and change my name; I could just stop being "apotheon" online in any significant way . . .

hmm

The last option seems like the best. I should really try to stop being such a rube about my online identity.

It's just . . . so goddamned much work to keep an identity strictly separate. I've managed to screw that up twice when in the early stages of testing my ability to keep things clean.

If you really care about privacy that much the only way to do it and to not touch the internet. You can do what you can at the blockchain level/exchance and all that, but then you have to worry about your OS / hardware / network activity patterns being picked up can go all day with it really

And we are just having fun hypothetical technical discussion that is educational

the only reason why i use monero is so my family members can't track my txs so that they don't know what i bought them for christmas

😅

I like how literally everything is trying to be KYC these days. You buy something at the mall and they are programmed to ask you what your email and address and name is to get you on their reward program/newsletter etc. If you are not paying attention, you sometimes just give it out because you feel like you have to.

I think everyone has to at least fight some of the battles. But, it is going to be impossible to win them all.

apotheon: on the topic of online indentity, depending on what your doing online just use a new identity everytime. Thats my way of thinking and usually what i do everyday lulz

apotheon: and no i havent used litecoin before

I basically only get little trickles of Monero to buy things right away when I want to support a vendor with Monero instead of USD, or when I want to give some away to someone in the process of teaching them about Monero. I'm so damned overcautious about my privacy with it that I haven't actually gotten into collecting it in any quantity for general use or anything like that.

I'm pretty sure litecoin is still generally cheaper and faster to send than bitcoin, so it is a great ideal candidate to use as an intermediate crypto.

I think I'll start telling vendors "I only have a work address, and I'm not supposed to give that out for this kind of stuff." It makes the conversations less awkward, and in a way it's true anyway.

or just give 'em myname⊙ec

I'll tell them I am homeless and don't do email

the email equivalent of giving your phone number as 867-5309

yeji-weji[m]: buying gifts for your family members in monero <--- lol

specifically "eight six seven [pause] five three [pause] zero nine"

wormrobot: The online identity thing can eventually get correlated if things like browser fingerprints match up, too. For a clean break, you almost need different computers with wildly different setups and stuff like onion routing and VPNs for all communications.

yeji-weji[m]: Yes, Litecoin is *fantastically* faster and cheaper for transactions than BTC. It's pretty much in the same ballpark as Monero.

"I only use Monero as bait when I go fishing. I do that with ghost guns, too."

hahaha

quick question about my cli wallet, when i check my tx in/out it says they are in unlocked?

that's better than them being locked

Right now, BTC seems to be somewhere in the vicinity of a buck and a half, which is kinda on the low side since the whole COVID thing started. Litecoin and Monero are either higher than I expected (but both under five cents) than I expected or misrepresented on these charts I just found.

mawk: true i believe that just shows the fact the 10 block confirmation has happened and they coins have fully arrive and are spendable

yeah

yep

Other wallets may refer to "locked" as "unconfirmed", or they may refer to "unlocked" as "available". It's a UI decision, how to frame that.

apotheon: yes i have been hearing things about xmr/btc charts and how monero is peforming better than btc

apotheon: yes now it makes sence great!

monero has gained a lot of ground back on the btc-xmr charts this year

Oh, yeah, Monero seems to (mostly) just keep gradually gaining value percentage against BTC, and the fact it's cheaper to transact with Monero might be one of the reasons for that.

and it is actually used

right

There's a stat - I forgot where I saw it but there is a record amount of total bitcoin that has not been transacted in the last 6 months or something along those lines

for what though

Bitcoin being slow and expensive to use exerts some drag on its use.

100% of the uses I have had for monero would make my mom sad

mawk: I've seen Monero used for fountain pens, beef jerky, t-shirts, web hosting, gun parts, conference tickets, VPNs . . .

You can also donate Monero to the Copyfree Initiative. (disclaimer: I may have ties with the CI.)

my main use has been splitting bills with friends.. not super substantial but it is something

has anyone been able to find an in person business that accepts monero?

not yet

I was planning to start an online ammunition vendor shipping to people's doors, but I wanted to get an FFL to do it so that I could get sweet bulk discounts and not look legally sketchy doing it, where I'd take Monero payment to sell and ship, but when I found out some of the conditions of FFLs I decided I need to set up a separate business property before I get an FFL to avoid some uncomfortable

regulatory crap.

yeji-weji[m]: That's an excellent use of Monero.

I don't know of brick and mortar businesses in my area that take Monero.

You need a separate property? In my state it seems like on every other block there is a FFL setup in their garage or something akin to that

I guess that might not be your living situation so

this is what im thinking.. i want the states to regulate the shit out of crypto again and that would scare the shit out of people and finally realize how public ledgers are worthless and not "bulletproof==monero"

I'm thinking of trying to convert the baristas at my favorite coffee shop to taking Monero tips. I was working on my previous favorite coffee shop's owner to get him set up to take cryptocurrencies (notably Monero), but he ended up selling the business, so that didn't go anywhere.

a lot of online drug markets take monero, some take only monero

some take btc and monero but warn about the lack of privacy of btc

yeji-weji[m]: You don't NEED a separate property. I'm just not willing to give the ATF the "authority" to search my home any time of day or night whenever its agents decide they should do so.

oh, that is lame

especially if you have pets

If I use a separated business location (even if it's on my property but a separate building from my home), they can only search *that*.

Yeah, if I had a dog they'd shoot it. That's what LEOs do when searching houses.

apotheon: my barber takes btc and i was thinking about talking to him about taking monero also next time i go

if they already take bitcoin it should be an easy convincing to take monero

mawk: Yeah, drugs might be the fastest-moving market for Monero. It's possible it even outweighs the mass of currency trading with Monero.

yeji-weji[m]: no yes exactly!

probably yeah

they make big money on these sites

apotheon: is kinda creepy you mentioned that because i thought about this earlier today

I don't want to look but I probably spend around 10 000€ me alone on these

wormrobot: Yeah, if he already takes other cryptocurrencies he's probably quite vulnerable to a pitch. You might want to have some ideas in mind for how he could get started accepting Monero, from a technical perspective, though.

wormrobot: That'd probably help lubricate the conversion.

i only smoke weed i dont do other drugs so drug markets accepting monero doesnt interest me

I've never partaken of an illegal recreational drug. Weird, I know.

apotheon: no yes i always talk about the technicals and functionalities of a project

I drank some alcohol underage decades ago (long, long past any statute of limitations). That's the closest I got.

apotheon: hahaha

I'm not into drugs either. I'm just into the private transactions in general. I use cash as much as I can in my day-to-day life whether that i just buying groceries.

I don't even drink alcohol at all now. I'm the sort who just doesn't find the trade-offs of recreational drugs very tempting. I do still consume some amount of caffeine and sugar, though.

mawk: 100% of the uses I have had for monero would make my mom sad <---- lmaoo

I don't really care if others are into it. And I respect the dark market for being able to find the right tools.

apotheon: coffe never interested me idk why my parents drink it all the time tho

I oppose drug prohibition on ethical grounds, but essentially have no use for any of these illegal recreational drugs.

I spent more time alive on heroin than being sober

I like enjoying a nice scotch or rye here and there.

mawk: hahahaha

damn

I don't like coffee, really. I do like some green tea, and very specific flavored lattes appeal to me.

14 years versus 12 years

your funny bro

I also like Mexican Pepsi a lot.

probably worse for you than heroin

for sure

hahahaha

I doubt that, but in terms of the organs in my abdomen sugar water is as bad as alcohol, I think.

Alcohol seems to have a much more pronounced effect on the brain.

I have at least cut back my sugar intake over the years, though my egg nog habit just won't relent.

while sugar is bad, alcohol is also quite toxic to all your organs, not just the brain

We get dairy delivered directly to our door, and holy crap is the dairy's egg nog DELICIOUS.

john mcafee did a lot of drugs and he was a genius

😅

he did MDPV at some point

"bath salts"

cant wait till im able to buy groceries with monero

Hilariously, some of the negative effects of sugar also apply to sugar replacements.

I did those too

but that was pretty bad it landed me in the psych ward

mawk: I've grown quite distrustful of nutrition science tbh, but it's probably best to eat the way people ate before 1900

depends, if you eat like kings ate you'll get gout

yeji-weji[m]: i lovE <3 [jmcafee]

i lovE <3 [jmcafee]

I don't believe in science in general

yeji-weji[m]: that's highly cringe

a more appropriate wording is i think there are a lot of science "truths" that get through without a healthy amount of debate or skepticism

everyone believed bitcoin was a private method of exchange just because some experts told them 5-10 years ago (hell even today they might still believe it)

I believe in the benefits of science, but I don't always believe that some so-called "science" is actually scientific.

yeji-weji[m]: Not everyone

A lot of interpretations of experimental data ends up being highly fucking suspect, particularly when stuff is based on modelling.

especially when scientists lie

and when they lie it's not caught immediately

I pretty quickly realized Bitcoin was pseudonymous, but I had the benefit of some infosec experience behind me.

but when it's stuff like physics or maths I believe in it more easily

. . . and the thing about pseudonymity is that it's only as strong as your opsec.

my opsec is doing nothing and hoping I don't get caught

har

apotheon: With mean null for most users

but anyway quantities are too low for me to go to jail or anything

At least you know your limitations.

since I live in an actual civilized country where we don't treat addicts like subhuman scum

yeji-weji[m]: I'm pretty sure that institutional science wasn't super focused on bitcoin, but yeah I get what you mean, I'm also not a big fan of modern institutional science

fundementally the idea that science is some process of revelation that will always give you true results no matter what is a very silly child's view of how science is supposed to work (it's supposed to be a dynamic method to understand nature)

mawk: more civlized in some ways, less in others, most likely

maybe

I live in weedlandia

mawk: That is definitely an important matter for civility, though.

i.e. the kingdom of netherlands

righto

In the Netherlands, I'd be in fucking prison for my lifestyle.

lol

why

guns, for one

ah yeah

I don't know the local law

I know the french gun law, which isn't very good if you like guns

It's not down under, but it's down underwater.

Can you use cash 100% of the time you use money in Netherlands?

no RavFX[m]

cash is being phased out

you pay with debit card for everything

That answer it all

even the baguette at the boulangerie

they start refusing cash payments now

the other day they literally turned me away because I wanted to pay in cash

lost a sale

at the icecream seller

I would be living outside or something if I where stuck in the neatherland lol

I think on MoneroTalk this morning I heard there is some new cash incentive being rolled out in Italy?

we have a good housing policy, not many people live on the street

beggars adapt, now they present you their IBAN so you can wire money

since no cash is a huge problem for them

The Netherlands is evidently very restrictive for gun ownership.

not many european countries like guns

switzerland is an exception

Check the Gun Regulations heading here: gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/netherlands

czech republic is one of the better gun countries in europe i think

In particular, check "Restricted Firearms and Ammunition", and "Gun Ownership and Possession".

yeji-weji[m]: Yes, it is.

. . . and it's still not good enough for me.

One thing the EU tends to do better than the US is suppressors.

it's less restrictive than in france apotheon

it seems

In the UK, suppressors are treated as what they are: safety equipment.

You can get the suppressor in EU but you'll have nothing to stick it onto 😅

US law treats suppressors as if they're murder tools.

come help me rob the methadone clinic with your guns

something like a good boy $200 tax and wait 2 years

mawk: Yeah, it probably is less restrictive than France, but from the perspective of the US it looks totally locked down.

well applying for a license isn't the end of the world

but you don't have full auto stuff

only long guns for hunting or handguns

You don't even get semi-auto in the Netherlands, for rifles, I think.

I guess that means . . . bolt action, pump action, lever action, and single shot breech load . . . ?

in the US the legality of full auto is kind of.. vague

two shots stuff I guess apotheon

"regular" hunter rifle

specific firearms are grandfathered in, but you from my understanding you can't modify any old semi auto AR-15 to have a full auto trigger system

I guess you could have a multi-barrel breech load rifle or shotgun.

with two barrels

that's what I see hunters having in france

US legality for full auto is actually simpler than it seems, but not great.

It's possible.

you can do fake full auto

with magic stuff like bump triggers

or whatever it's called

bump stock

For average citizens, you can apply for a tax stamp for a full auto firearm, and when you get it (and pay the really excessive tax) you can then buy the firearm, and you need one for each full auto firearm. The only full auto firearms for this are those that were already registered under the FOPA rules as of 1986, so no new stuff can be bought and sold this way.

trump banned bump stocks :(

o

If you have one of several types of federal firearm license (FFL), you can manufacture your own firearms or buy new stuff, potentially subject to some import restrictions.

Bump stocks are pretty silly, but it's even sillier to ban them.

err, with an FFL I meant you can manufacture your own full auto firearms

so if you opt-in for extra KYC basically

(as well as other firearms, but what I was addressing was full auto)

Yeah, and pay a couple hundred dollars a pop for the privilege of extra KYC.

odds some of these are being bought with monero in africa?

Then, of course, you're not allowed to get rid of the automatic firearm without either destroying it or giving/selling it to someone else eligible to acquire it (e.g. an FFL holder, someone who paid to get the tax stamp, or presumably an "appropriate" gov agency like the ATF).

yeji-weji[m]: I give it about a fifteen to twenty percent chance of some being purchased with Monero, at a guess, but my confidence is not high that I'm getting the right percentage range.

It sounds like Nigeria has a pretty high bitcoin adoption. I'm not sure if they use a lot of Monero there yet though.

Can you imagine how much trouble someone would get into 3D printing guns in any of most places in Europe?

I heard Germany is really strict lately with enforcing the law and even ordinary fines can result in jail time if not paid promptly.

What would Ross Ulbrich's sentence have been in a typical European country? I'd be willing to bet it would be less.

Yeah, Germany seems to be getting pretty draconian, from what I've seen.

There's a T on the end of Ross' surname, by the way.

s/Ulbrich/Ulbricht/

well counts don't add up, for a first

you don't get insane 17393839 years in prison like in the US

for drug trafficking max is 35 years in France

It's flatly absurd that Ross got the sentence he did. Two life sentences for running a website is just insane.

or 30

max is 30 years for all crimes anyway

then you get parole

"incompressible perpetuity" is 30 years in France

he solicited murder apotheon

no?

mawk: The FBI claimed he did, but there wasn't any substantive evidence. If there was, they would've brought it to trial.

yeah

In addition to that, the only supposed victim of an attempt at a murder contract actually vouched for Ross, saying he didn't do anything of the sort.

There's also the fact that there were multiple people acting under the name DPR at various times, and even if someone did try to secure a murder contract there's not really any way to firmly tie it to Ross, as far as I know.

ocean[m]: drugs are bad guys, Ross Ulbricht deserves to be in jail

no more aspirin for you, then

apotheon: actually I never take aspirin or things like that when I'm sicks

s/sicks/sick/

Do you think people deserve to go to prison for selling analgesics and alcohol?

apotheon: I believe drugs should be illegal and the punishments for selling them should be much harsher than they are, yes this includes analgesics

no it doesn't include alcohol

I was about to say at least you're consistent, but alcohol is far more harmful than aspirin.

<apotheon> "There's also the fact that there..." <- the dude was hosting a website that allowed you to order a contract to kill people, the fact that it was never done doesn't exactly exhonorate him

No, it didn't allow that. They had rules against it.

. . . or at least that's my understanding. I think some people posted such ads, but when found they got taken down.

(I never actually visited it. I'm repeating stuff I've read about it.)

it allowed guns

apotheon: I must have misunderstood what you meant, obviously every country in the world has aspirin avalible OTC (even though I don't use it and think many drugs are heavily overused, including things like aspirin)

either way you're just playing word games

but now there's not a single one website that sells gun there

mawk: nothing wrong with selling guns

that I have found at least

well it makes the feds want to track you down even faster

so they don't want to be in the spotlight

right

they don't allow child porn either

>drugs are bad

>alcohol isn't among them

Yeah . . . people who make porn with children are fucking awful.

ok lou[m]

lou[m] lacks some consistency

I'm happier with my dope than drinking poisonous ethanol

at least I am in good health with a good liver

and no brain damage from my cerebrospinal fluid having been replaced with liquor

mawk: >the fact that the only legal drug is the most harmful tells us that we should allow them all for "consistency"

yeah in an ideal world I think alcohol shouldn't be legal either, but tradition is also a factor here

also prohibitionists did nothing wrong fite me

Prohibition turns a peaceful industry with few non-functional addicts into a violent industry with many non-functional addicts.

mawk: yeah, it only increases your risk of contracting schizophrenia by 5x, no biggie

and basically all mentall ilnesses as well

what

heroin?

not really, no

mawk: I thouhgt you were talking about weed

no

I don't like weed

it makes people dumb

mawk: are you unironically saying we should legalize heroin?

I only take ☕ nowadays

for addicts yes

not for new customers

mawk: that's obviously retarded, addicts need to get rehab

which can come through the use of medicalized heroin

rehab isn't just the 12 steps insane bullshit you have in the USA

here in Europe we actually use a method that works, called substitution

I'm unironically saying we should legalize heroin.

People who need help could get it without fear of incarceration, then.

apotheon: well you're unironically retarded and insane

some use methadone, some use buprenorphine, and some that can't stop shooting and don't do well on the other two are given medicalized heroin ie diamorphin, in countries like Switzerland

I use methadone myself

should that be illegal too?

mawk: yes

I guess the cancer patients using it for pain will have to suffer

lol

I use methadone as prescribed by a doctor, I meant

it's not street drugs

lou[m]: Your inability to have a civil discussion with someone who disagrees with you about whether the death toll of prohibition is worse than some people making their own decisions does not speak well for your reasoning skills.

Perhaps you could get some lessons in how to interact with other humans some day.

are you unironically suggesting pulling medication that work from shelves to stick it to the bad addict people?

let's also pull valium and all its friends and let you die from delirium tremens when you run out of booze

we don't want a single psychoactive medication

<apotheon> "lou: Your inability to have a..." <- lobertarian logic is essentially... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…764e1ba5f591f3ae5bcabc94cf25ba339ad>)

s/drug/alcohol/

#monero-offtopic:monero.social

Your lack of ability to think beyond first-order effects is not my problem.

Yall just talking about legalizing heroin and whwrther crack bad IR good

Please move on. You've already proven you're not fit for civil discussion. I don't care to continue feeding you.

Tf

mawk: you're just playing word games here, when I said "drug" I wasn't talking about literally all possible medications

I think psychiatric/opiod/pain meds are heavily overused, but that's not obv. what we're talking about here

Obv. they should be illegal for anyone who doesn't need them and heavily regulated

Clearly a bunch of addicts up in here.

unsupported, and false, claim

apotheon: what I wrote is not controversial among historians of prohibition, "common wisdom" is the nonsense lolbertarians have been saying

ofrnxmr[m]: ^^

ofrnxmr[m]: sure

Thanks

lou[m]: Stop pretending to discuss something. You clearly just want to bludgeon people into agreeing. I have no interest in feeding you with actual responses to your non-points.

apotheon: I have been pretty civil and have present my points as well as I could (ok I make fun of libertarians by calling them "lolbertarians"), it's you who doesn't have a counter-argument

sorry ofrnxmr, last thing I'll write in here

"pretty civil" is laughable

apotheon: cope

so like Al Capone wasn't really a thing?

totally not

forget I said anything

right

all of that clearly belongs in -offtopic

hyc: neither of you is in that room

Lou

ofrnxmr[m]: yeah?

Thanks.

ofrnxmr[m]: thansk for what?

Hello ofrnxmr

How are you ofrnxmr

Ofrnxmr ofrnbtc ofrneth

How are you

I'm hanging out in #monero-offtopic:monero.social today

If you need me, ill be there

ofrnxmr[m]: not much activity there I'm afraid at the moment

Ofrnxmr, if you do my monero gui suggestions I will give you 12 words of $100 ripple? I promise.

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Clearly a bunch of addicts up in..." <- what i said about bridging #monero to irc was a mistake, just a bunch of weirdos boomers hipsters over there 😹

Monero zindabad

spacekitty420[m]: As one of those weirdo boomer hipsters, I feel offended now.

what if you're one of those but use matrix (asking for a friend)

Yeah, right, indeed mostly using Matrix nowadays. With my very own beautiful room, who would have thought.

Hey folks

Good morning!

Morning ^^

hello!!

wormrobot: Hello

Torr: hope your having a great day!!

Thanks, you too my lad.

thank you

> When did Hacker News become the domain of snitches and squares?

Well, anybody can create an account.

Interesting article btw.

rbrunner: u gucci booboo, like plowsof saying u also have a matrix acc so u all good, no worries <3

spacekitty420[m], Gucci is owned by Kering, which also owns Balenciaga

So that's quite the insult :P

jess is here too?

sandy-claws, are you sure you're not a Monero Maxi?

a what

"The top dozen comments were from people quoting their understanding of the law and how Bitcoin transactions run afoul of FCC regulations"

I think that's typical of so called 'hams'

Well, there are Bitcoin Maxis sandy-claws... So there can be Monero Maxis too.

Mochi101: dang, that's fucked up, thanks letting me know, had no idea 😿, either way: piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=8KfoXn9jr5Y

I don't much like that type of music, but this is good.

💯🔥

spacekitty420[m], en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kering#Brands

they fucking everywhere wtf....

french ppl... errrrrr.....

Firs time I ever heard of Kering and Balenciaga was in the last couple of days.

Hello

Hey

is like with blackrock, hiding in the shadows and running the whole thing and nobody even heard of them until some big news about their shady deals....

ofrnxmr[m]: Answer here

Ask again please. Not sure the context of your question

I2p and tor tx-proxy and anon-inbound do not sync the blockchain

I have connection via i2p and clearnet

Then inout peers = 0

Blockchain do not sync

Those two flags only enable handshakes, peerlist exchanges etc.

Blockchain sync is always over ipv4 or ipv6

But have connection via i2p and sent/received data

As I said above

You cannot sync the blockchain to I2p or onion peers

To or from*

Why not?

You can do blockchain sync over tor by using the --proxy=127.0.0.1:9050 flag

Then why do we need connections through them?

xfedex[m]: The networks dont speak to each other. P

To broadcast transactions without using clearnet or exit nodes

To relay* and broadcast

ofrnxmr[m]: But this will not allow incoming connections for blockchain sync. Only outgoing over exit nodes (in place of clearnet ipv4 nodes)

ofrnxmr[m]: Will my transaction be sent to nodes in i2p first?

ofrnxmr: Am I right or not?

I think if you set --tx-proxy, you your outgoing txs will only be sent to i2p.

You think so, but in fact it may turn out otherwise, no one has canceled the congestion

Bugs*

Sorry, my english is bad

So your blockchain height does not increase if you set in-peers=out-peers=0?

soderzhanie[m]: For example, I specified in out 0, but print_cn sometimes shows me 1 clearnet node and that data has been sent to it

jozsef[m]: Yes

<soderzhanie[m]> "Will my transaction be sent to..." <- Yes

soderzhanie[m]: Correct. By design

Can you elaborate? I'm also puzzled why sync is not allowed by design over i2p.

Why>

?

A lot of technical reasons

That's not very convincing.

Its one of those "... where do I start?"

Pick one of the reasons and try to explain.

There are likely less than 15 I2p nodes. If I2p nodes dont interact with clearnet nodes you end up forking the chain

If we went 100% onion nodes, its too slow and were subject to another network

Kovri was a project that was supposed to solve these issues

But its not as simple as turning off clearnet, or allowing too many bottlenecks where clear interacts with anon networks

Okay, that sounds good. But with this setup, we will never get enough nodes on those networks. I am running a node and I have both clearnet connections too and serving i2p. I don't think everyone running an i2p node will turn off clearnet by default.

Right now I have a tor node running . You can have incoming connections over exit nodes

But you can over onion.

Cant* over exit nodes

ofrnxmr[m]: Orignal spoke badly about kovri

Hyc and others spoke of interest about allowing blockchain sync over anon networks

Who?

Orignal - i2pd developer

Would 1-hop i2p still have too much latency?

hyc:

I2p is pretty fast by default, IMO faster than tor. I have a feeling sync would not be too bad over i2p using the defaults, .e..g 8 hops(?)

But this is just user experience.

I'm already watching light videos on i2p

There may be some tech reason not to do it.

My experience syncing a wallet over I2p was extremely slow

Using your node jozsef:

What do your network speeds look like when syncing a wallet over i2p?

I have i2p node on my smartphone and sync wallet via i2p)

I was getting like 200kbps

I run a i2pd behind a fiber gbit connection with no bandwidth restrictions and I get

Received: 122.22 GiB (246.38 KiB/s)

Sent: 132.80 GiB (212.92 KiB/s)

Transit: 111.66 GiB (194.89 KiB/s)

Sheeeit

3 hours and NAT

Yeah, I agree, syncing a wallet is awfully slow. I was never able to wait for it to finish. Is p2p any different than wallet/monerod?

How is your rpc connection traffic speeds though

I don't know how to measure that.

So do you think 200kbps is awful for sync among nodes? Was that your rpc speed too?

卩尺ㄖ卩卄乇ㄒ: I think you have your i2pd port firewalled.

jozsef[m]: Ahah yes, mobile provider

3G

But i2pd and i2p in last update added SSU2 😎

Powerful nodes are doing pretty crazy speeds over clearnet block sync

200kbps is pretty painfully slow, even if its 10x the current requirement

Ah, okay, that screenshot is from your phone whose i2pd port you don't have open on your firewall.

welp, seth now doing the whole bitcoin hardware wally thingy and did a presentation to shill L2 for monero, what's next? :O

I think work monerod in clearnet and i2p Will lead to time attacks

Mhm

Thats what dendelion, noise and --pad-transactions is for

Not a perfect solution ^ but better than nothing

few months ago got an error from monerod saying that dandelion++ failed, transaction still went through, shit was weird... like, legit fucking weird

should have saved up the error but didnt, fml....

Maybe it sent out another dandelion transaction after the first one failed?

I doubt the node would say "fuck it" and just start broadcasting

pretty sure it did say "fuck it" tho 😹

but yeah idk....

aight found it again in the log and it was indeed the only time it happened ever LOL

>WARNING net.dns src/common/dns_utils.cpp:570 WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received

>ERROR net.p2p.txt src/cryptonote_protocol/levin_notify.cpp:570 Unable to send transaction(s) via Dandelion++ stem

That took me 24 minutes to find 🤒

lol sowry, thanks <3

oh, nvm, u meant for 卩尺ㄖ卩卄乇ㄒ

Noo

oh?

For you

well idfk, i retarded, the fuck am i reading? LOL

"the behavior you are describing is exactly the bug fixed in 8326, instead of the daemon rebroadcasting the tx after 5 minutes it waits 4 hours

now it does dandelion -> if it fails it sends it to all peers -> it retries after 5 min -> retry after 10min -> retry after 20min -> ..."

but tx went through tho, didnt have to wait 5mins iirc

Magic money

Mystery* money

ofrnxmr[m]: How do I know that my transaction has been sent to i2p and not to clearnet?

Monitor your clearnet traffix

ofrnxmr[m]: Orignal said that gostcoin works perfectly in two networks without any branching

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Hyc and others spoke of interest..." <- ^

i remember someone saying that syncing monero over tor is dumb af cause the size of the packets or somethin?

idk anything about that tho