hey does monero use 0-conf? settling a debate with a friend

like if you release a conflicting transaction later with a higher fee, will it be mined instead?

<masterdebater> "like if you release a conflictin..." <- This is RBF aka replace by fee - no. This is not s feature of monero

so monerod will only mine the first tx it sees, even if it has a lower fee

but if it gets in a block it just accepts it?

I am wondering what happens if a user re-transmits their transaction in a 51% attack

because the attacker would want to disregard 0-conf and mine it, right?

A 51% attack to revert transactions involves splitting the chain and essentially erasing tx from the new chain

Has nothing to do with confirmations

yeah but wouldn't the tx be in the mempool

En eli5 on how to perform a double spend attack: chapgpt or google

Or youtube

:)

What youre asking is "how to perform a 51% attack"

The Tldr is, if it was easy to perform, it would happen all the time when pools have > 51%, but it doesnt

Possible, but not as easy as "somehow resubmit tx".

Something like.. Youd need to mine your own tx while owning 51% to respend the 0 conf. Youd also wipe out some innocent bystander tx, but thats not relevant to the 0 conf question.

Are transactions tied to the last block's hash or something

or are they just free to be re-organized by an attacker

I think that is my mistake

My friend says that attacker and spenders could co-operate in a 51% attack, because attackers want to profit the most or cause the most chaos, and senders want to double spend and screw over vendors

Hello. I'd like to sell on Localmonero. Are there any reported issues selling in US? Federal law allows 1k/user/day without money services license. Are states not tracking cash-by-mail addresses?

youtu.be/01a7HAkEK3I?t=73 masterdebater:

xmrseller: I think USPS doesnt open your mail (?)

But there's nothing stopping you from giving your address to a policy enforcer

<ofrnxmr[m]> "xmrseller: I think USPS..." <- They aren't supposed to unless it's an investigation, but the address listed on the site could be enough for that.

I think youd send the address into to the buyer manually

Not posted publicly. But if you give it to a fed.. well, youre out of luck then right

Yes, but what stops an agent from doing so? I don't mean to sound paranoid, but is it not trivial for them as well?

People use po boxes and other anon delivery services etc

xmrseller[m]: Nothing. If your laws say you can sell, you have nothing to hide right?

Localmonero is just Craigslist for crypto

uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs.pdf... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…4eafd97823340b5f471e8f98f59f0e03228>)

Thank you spackle_xmr:

Yeah, it's not about legality of the crypto. Money Services Businesses require licensure. Feds "don't care" so long as it's 1k/person/day. States can have their own requirements. I'm wondering if this has yet to be enforced or if anyone is registered

I dont register my garage sales

That's true

State can lick mah ballz if they think in selling something. Monero is must Minecraft money

Just*

A ticking time bomb if any agency does look at Localmonero. I wonder who they'd go after first.

As far as laws go, you should always look into your local laws etc, and gusts whether you care 😆

Is monero even legal to be sold by msb in your state? If not.. well.. then its not money, is it (?)

monero doesn't even exist

I will sell you monero for really cheap

but it's on testnet

:)

masterdebater: Perfect example

xmrseller the term usually used is "sting operation"

Whats the diff? XMR, txmr its all just fake Minecraft money

townforge

Dont Fkn dare trade townforge items

almost any illegal service can be stopped by sting operations

ofrnxmr[m]: MSB fed laws cover any exchange of fiat. All states generally do the same but most don't list a transaction amount limits for required registration.

Better report that shit or uncle Sam is coming

it's like a fundamental rule of life

just like how any mixnet can be stopped by correlation attacks

it's all probabalistic

xmrseller[m]: Mdb covers a garage sale? Corner store? Pizza shop?

I though msb meant exchange of ccurrencies

ofrnxmr[m]: Any exchange of fiat related to properties and securities.

Properties such as pizza?

I could Google, but where I am msb is only bank like businesses

Crypto is still defined as an asset regardless of the big Monero larp

Doesn't include retail

> <@xmrseller:matrix.org> Crypto is still defined as an asset regardless of the big Monero larp

>

XMR isnt an asset

Its garbage

Its a liability

churn and burn

Dont put words in my mouth officer. If xmr was a asset, id trade it in binance

xmrseller I think the big idea is that eventually monero (and others) will be so ubiquitous that it will be like selling weed

^

interesting talk

sorry, *wheat*

mincreaft wheat

grass*

ofrnxmr[m]: fincen.gov/fact-sheet-msb-registration-rule

> These businesses are (1) currency dealers or exchangers, (2) check cashers, (3) issuers of traveler’s checks or money orders, (4) sellers or redeemers of traveler’s checks or money orders, and (5) money transmitters

I dont see Minecraft swords there

"An official website of the United States Government" how official ?????

XMR doesnt transmit usd, it transmits byte and bytes. Just an encrypted email aka an enote

Useless shit anybody. Money that cent be spent anywhere ? Lol

What country accepts this "currrency""

"This meant that companies who accepted virtual currency from one party to another party and vice versa, or exchange fiat currency for any digital currency, or even just accepted crypto from customers on behalf of a merchant, were considered money transmitters.

However, individuals and businesses who simply exchanged cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin for products and services, and vice versa, were not. "

This is promising

but monero isnt a business

its a way of life

it's a religion

And monero isnt digital currency until the fed says "we love monero. Its d best cbdc"

Big larp aside. The individuals comment in that quote from the fed site is promising for protecting sellers on Localmonero.

Til then, its just some Minecraft bullshit :). Might as well make me register to buy gas

Issuers and sellers of stored value are included as MSBs, but they are not required to register at this time.

Since im trading 1000000 a week to fill my tank with "a commodity"

btc?

Fiat for fuel

Natural gas

DanIsnotthemanBr: Is this quoted from an official source?

Electric power

yeah that link

All im saying... is... when they put on on trial and say "HE HID HIS MONEROOOO". Im going to say "from you?? No shit"

i'll just same

no comment

DanIsnotthemanBr: Unfortunately It doesn't say that specifically for fiat and crypto, just services and products.

it was created in 1997

These days if you want to buy crypto, they want nudes

Probably a lot more if you want to sell

there is a debate on /biz/ discussing what would happen in a 51% attack, I am interested to hear what you all thing

think

I dont read 4chan

nudes wiith 2 fingers up

Because they dont dont do tech

s/wiith/with/

4channers are pretty bad with tech. /g/ is not as good as lainchan and other forums. I think it's because the people who have the most time to post are teenagers and NEETs.

R/darknet is terrible too

but a lot of HN is /g/ lurkers

I think

i thought matrix was darknet??????????????????????????????????????

The biggest tinfoilwrs do the worst reasearch

matrix is federated

it's fedposting

in other words

so is IRC actually

Somehow miss the forest for the trees

Everything here is logged, unencrypted, and public

IRC is public like usenet is public

Monero is private. Monero development and community are open

sold to google for a profit

someone is probably crawling IRC as we speak

look at all the lurkers

No

I don't care if the NSA can see my dick pics to be honest

Its literally logged. We have a logging website that logs everything intentionally

I forward all of them to the NSA

BCC them

obfuscation

with BCC

well I am just curious what do you guys think happens if an attacker can gain much greater than >51% CPU power? Do you think we would have to increase memory hardness of randomX or use more classical consensus or just have to rely on moneropulse or what

just scale up my K8 monerod

s/K8/K8s/

I think any p2p classical consensus method will suck because you would get splits

all the time, and as a vendor it's just chaos

Not true

or what if you just had like signed miners

Not this convo again

masterdebater: Tldr: not possible, not. Happening

yeah but wouldn't it be crazy if it did

masterdebater: Its cslled proof of work for a reason

yeah I guess

you think bitcoin will die due to selfish mining?

A 51% attack becomes harder to accomplish the larger the network is, and costlier

they really don't like tail emission

masterdebater: No, its already dead

I just bought some bitcoin the other day, and some litecoin and BCH too

Should dump it all into xmr now :) haha

Q. Do you mine any of those?

yeah it's not so much diversifying as just having some on hand in case I need to make a transaction and they don't accept xmr. Like a lot of the VPS companies use really old bitpay or crap

no I have like 20 cents worth of xmr I've mined off p2pool-mini

If I meet any bitcoin/litecoin/whatever people in person I will trade with them

Use trocador.app > payment mode, if you must.

Or Cake wallet > cakepay to pay directly with 0 conf :)

Using gift csrds

masterdebater: That was a leading question

oh good point

Q2. Can you mine any of those aforementioned coins?

hell no

So, if youre worried about a 51% attack, who controls the hashrate of them?u

Anybody you know?

An interesting thought for long term BTC security is imagining that users with large holdings will mine regardless of the block reward in order to protect their investment.

Anybody you trust?

Yeah ASIC mining is more vulnerable I agree

and generally not as fun :)

spackle_xmr[m]: Their investment will dwindle if tx fees dont keep miners mining

And large pools sells everything

spackle_xmr I think it's a tragedy of the commons situation

Not many large miners hodl for long

Certainly, but if the alternative is destruction then lots of things can make sense.

well miners need to pay their electric bill and get new units, they depreciate fast

I really dont see it.

I dont see any path where btc survives without absolute ridiculous inflation and brainwashing

The loyal mine = hashrate drops and it gets 51% attacked

it survives if they hard fork and copy monero

but they don't have the community needed to do that

Corporations were created just to mine. If its not profitable to mine, its profitable to attack

masterdebater: BTC hard fork? Not happening

Thats called bch

oh it's happening

you know about the 32 bit nTime?

And if the hr moved from btc > bch, it would 51% it

too many people fighting over btc forks

More like 95%

No

BTC isnt hfing lololool

Bitcoin OG will keep the hr

And the fork will RIP like bch

bruh moment

Uh

Yeah, we all saw thst

And we use monero

Bitcoin is dead and has been since 2012

you heard about BTC sidechains?

it's crazy what they will do to avoid hardfork

Why would I care. Of course I have

Have you heard about the multiple breeds of duck that live in the south east of Zimbabwe?

 I have read about that

in the times

Is that useful info?

Lolol

yes

so is dread up

Solely focusing on mining, it is fun to imagine the possibilities. The future of PoW could extend past strict economics if there are social incentives. Perhaps the prestige of mining a recent block might drive people's efforts.

All speculative, of course. For now the brutal and simple rules of hash effort hold everything in place.

Watching how huge some operations are that exit mining, with no noticable dip in hr, just shows that this is propped up BT n3cessity

And its being funded by traders who buy the junk that cant even be used

But its not sustainable. Bitcoin is literally purging transactions from the mempool regularly now, and tx fees remain around 45c. The next halving will take a 300k revenue operation in the red to a 150k one, super in the red

youtu.be/I7ORgE5i9Uk I posted this somewhere before, but its a good story of a million dollar investment that couldnt make the roi

<spackle_xmr[m]> "An interesting thought for..." <- Mining at a loss means that you are actively losing money. You're better off not mining at all. You're not protecting your investment, you're permanently burning your money to temporarily protect the network from attack. It's not sustainable

The whole point of PoW is that it's based on a financial incentive. That's what keeps the system in balance

FWIW it's common to burn some of your money to protect the whole. Think buying a safe with some of it to put the rest in. At scale, paying security guards to guard the rest of your money. It can make sense depending on the circumstances.

If you holding significant amounts, and you loose money below the rate of fiat inflation, it may be worthwhile. Problem is that you are incentivised to hope that others do exactly this for you, so you can hodl for free while the others pay the network cost

or you know, you can have a tail emission, which is effectively a fee paid by all hodlers

Communism to the rescue! :D

I am not saying any of that is destined to happen. I am just saying it isn't impossible, and it is fun to imagine. A lot of people are facing a long grind to zero (default) incentive, which has a lot of potential to be a very interesting show. Personally, I can't wait to see what happens.

Thankfully, tail emission requires no imagination at all.

Trying to set up xmrig to mine, but no matter what I set "user": to I get Invalid wallet address.

I set it all the way down to /home/paul/Monero/wallets/monero/monero, the actual wallt file, and it's still unhappy.

Tryig to mine solo. Does it want the gibberish string?

xmrig.exe -o 127.0.0.1:18081 -a rx/0 -u WALLET_ADDRESS --daemon

no need for config.json

wait, you put file path in "user"?

No, it should be wallet address - 95 characters that you use to receive XMR, you can see it in your wallet when you open it

I used the xmrig wizard to make the config. It doesn't give a clue. So it sounds like I need the gibberishstring. But how would xmrig find my wallet in my machine with that?

xmrig.com/docs/miner/config/pool#user -- Your wallet address on most pools, consult your pool getting started page.

In my wallet I don't find the gibberish string in Account or Settings...

In Wallt|Settings|Info it says Wallet Path: /home/paul/Monero/wallets/monero/monero.keys -- but xmrig doesn't like that either.

It's looking for your wallet's address, if you've got the CLI open, it's "address" as a command. The miner doesn't need to know your keys, as it's just using your wallet address in a call to the monero daemon to setup the coinbase txh.

*txn.

But there is no 'address' json command. When I use the xmrig Wizard it asks for the wallet address so I tried /home/paul, /home/paul/Monero. /home/paul/Monero/wallets, /home/paul/Monero/wallets/monero, and /home/paul/Monero/wallets/monero/monero, the actual wallet file, and it's still unhappy.

Nono

Rooter

Also there's no xmrig --address switch.

Have you ever sent or received xmr?

No

Ok. What wallet software are you using?

Monero

Where did you download the wallet

Is it "Monero GUI"

... and trying touse xmrig to mine as I have a GPU and 64 CPUs.

Yes monero-gui

... from getmonero

Step 0 first please.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves

Ok.

In monero gui. ... in the left panel

It said "account", click that

Yep. All zeroes.

On that page it with show "primary account" with a long string of numbers and letters + a rename button + copy button

That is your address.

Copy it

Oh, that's obscured because my virtual machine window is small...

Copied.

So I guess that's what goes in 'user'.

Corectt

"User": "4youraddress88Sjfbdkfjdnefkfbfjeffbkfjej",

^ line should look like this. Ie, make sure you dont delete the quotes or the comma

lowercase "user"

I see, the gibberish string. Now that problem's fixed, but xmrig is saying, "Connection refused.

This could be because of firewall. I put "url": "127.0.0.1:18081 beause I'm solo.

Are you running the node on the same VM where you're running xmrig?

Yes

Is the node fully synced?

Eh, Idk. xmrig is brand new, just compiled.

It needs a diff blockchain than the wallet?

xmrig is just the mining software, I'm talking about monerod (that syncs the chain for the wallet as well)

monerod syncs the chain, and xmrig connects to monerod's rpc port

monerod is fully synced. Ohh

Still need monerod.

The gui wallet should tell you if your node is syncing or is fully synchronized (bottom left)

It's not connected as I thought monerod is no needed with xmrig.

Are you using the gui wallet with a remote node, then?

monero-gui with local monerod. But I had special settings to start monerod with a systemd.

Ok, make sure it is running

(monerod is running)

It's not, with my 'special switches'... ExecStart=/usr/local/bin/altcoind --config-file /media/altcoin/altcoind.conf --non-interactive --start-mining altcoin --mining-threads 49

The systemd servce is running as the monero user and group.

Starting as root should drop privs to monero.

Oops it is now... Loading checkpoints.

Weird that xmrig connects through monerod.

--start-mining altcoin does not seem correct (unless 'altcoin' is the same wallet address that you have in your xmrig config now, and not the wallet address)

2023-03-14 19:41:24.199 W WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received

2023-03-14 19:41:24.199 E Target account address altcoin has wrong format, starting daemon canceled

And also, remove the --mining-threads option (especially since I doubt that your VM has 49 viable mining cores with 98MB of L3 cache)

Typo, all altcoin should be monero in my last statement.

rooter0_: Yep, it expects a wallet address, not a file path

Remove the two options I mentioned and it should start

I have 64 CPU cores, (AMD Epyc) and have dedicated 50 to this KVM VM.

Ah, I see. Still, you don't want to use monerod's builtin mining feature, since you're using xmrig (which is faster). No point in using both at the same time, since they would just be fighting for cache and cpu time

Understand. So I don't start monerod?

You start monerod, but you remove the start-mining and mining-threads options

Monerod talks to other nodes to sync the blockchain and relay unconfirmed transactions. Xmrig talks to monerod to fetch that data (aka the "mining template" and then does its mining thing. If it finds a valid results, it submits the solution back to monerod

I'm back. Laptop went crackers. (Thanks, KWin)

Did you see my last two messages?

No, sorry.

reddit is currently down. do you know what isnt? monero.house 😎

You start monerod, but you remove the start-mining and mining-threads options

Monerod talks to other nodes to sync the blockchain and relay unconfirmed transactions. Xmrig talks to monerod to fetch that data (aka the "mining template" and then does its mining thing. If it finds a valid results, it submits the solution back to monerod

merope: Ok

I see, so that's how xmrig can use the gibberish string to connect to the local wallet.

xmrig doesn't actually connect to the wallet (because it doesn't need to). It just needs to know your wallet address, which is used to construct the block template

(By "connect" I mean that the two programs do not interact directly with eachother)

Ok, monerod is listening on localhost 18080, 18081, and 18082, as God intended...

18082?

Idk, for some reason.

zmq port perhaps

Btw, check out monerodocs.org/interacting/monerod-reference

Wallet is connectiong....

Hm, wallet says "daemon failed to start, but when I dismiss that it shows fine, all synced. Maybe it prefers to start the daemon on its own.

(rather than me with systemd)

Connected.

What does the log say?

Indeed the wallet prefers to start monerod itself. Disabling the systemd service.

It seems to have lost the whole blockchain somehow. If you mean Settings|Log, "Couldn't connect to daemon 127.0.0.1:18081." Looks current but may have been before I made the changes.

Your daemon config file is in a non-standard path, so the gui wallet doesn't pick it up automatically (and will therefore not find the path where you stored the blockchain, and pick the default option instead)

Understand. I've set the blockchain path and deleted the old blockchain, but it still says only 49GB left. There's 200GB on that drive. Trying to dl the blockchain anyway.

Dude, don't delete the old chain file!

You can just move it, if you really must

It's synchronizing so far.

Takes a long time to sync

I don't have any XMC.

You mean xmr?

... and it couldn't find it where it was.

xmr.

(XMC was an old monero scam fork)

gpu mineable

asic scam

The location is inside whatever path you had in your data-dir option in the config file

There's a folder called 'lmdb' inside that path, which contains the data.mdb file (ie the blockchain)

I should have thought. But wallet lost it. All I have to do is run wallet, let it start monerod, sync, and then flange in xmrig, I think.

Oh no, it's not putting it under blockchain this time.

Must be under lmdb, unfortunately.

#teamviewer #level2support

Oh my god.

In .config/monero-project/monero-core.conf , blockchainDataDir=/home/paul/ ... so why didn't it make a blockchain subdir there?

<ofrnxmr[m]> "#teamviewer #level2support" <- Fluffy level?

Have you got the right owner:group set

Yes for the destination location, as the user wallet is running as.

rooter0_ you dont even know the ticker for xmr , dont start getting impatient

go away for a few hours and tinker

I don't understand where blockchain is set, so I can't move lmdb into it.

use a search engine and come back later

Did you check monerodocs.org/interacting/monerod-reference ?

As well as monerodocs.org/interacting/monero-config-file

He's running systemd scripts for monerod, running gui + a local node, ddoesnt know what a monero address is

Started at step 10 and trying to work their way backwards

So basically a linux user new to Monero

Everybody's gotta start somewhere

A windows user new to linux and monero

Probable using whonix or some crazy setup too

Yaya. They already said they are running it in a vm

good advice plowsof11. Thanks merope. ofrnxmr[m] as above I've stopped the systemd service and am relying on wallet to start the daemon.

is it life or death that your problem be solved in the next hour?

ofrnxmr[m] I guess you're an angry person. No CentOS & RH for 22 years exclusively., Resorting to an old trope is inaccurate.

💢

plowsof11: Surely not. But I am way behind on many other things.

You've been doing this since before I was born

Yes I'm a Boomer, old and stupid...

Its not an old trope

You started off with systemd, without knowing you wallet address

Let's bicker instead of trying to investigate this.

I thought boomers hated systemd..

Well, its as productive as whatever was going on before

you're the one who brought stress into my life

Running a node, mining solo from xmrig, is a 5 minutes to setup node, 8-24hrs to sync, 2 minutes to setup xmrig

Whatever you did was backwards.

You can even just open gui > advanced > mine

Did you look up the word 'trope' ofrnxmr[m]?

Node running instructions: download cli or gui > start the node

No. I dont need Google for words I know the definitions of

ponicious.

Did you read my 1.5 step instructions above?

Problem solved.

Next in line pls

Worthless, ofrnxmr[m]

"having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way." :(

...... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…2a831b487339f9fb117ebfc35f785782867>)

Alright, the Techies are gone now.

Im confused

Rq