<L3M0R> "one more thing, is LocalMonero a..." <- Let me know if you need any help1

s/help1/help!/

Our app is also available on f-droid

Hey everyone; with all the chatter about the light node vulnerability ongoing and it not yet being described entirely, I couldn't help but wonder... and got the following thought which is of course completely unrelated. Just wanted to understand how light clients defend against the following: If I'm connected to a single node, couldn't that node basically fork the chain and then generate a lot of transactions on the fork (which they can

mine themselves because as they are alone on the fork, the difficulty would be minimal). If i now were to make a transaction, with high likelihood, because recent outputs are preferred as decoys, I would select decoys from the fake transactions after the fork, which would reveal my real output to the node running the attack?

The difficulty doesn't immediately lower. If the single node tried mining fake tx at block 3 million, they'd still need to pretty much match the rest of the network's difficulty to mine block 3 million + 1.

There's a lot more going on in the scenario you're discussing, but that would be a major issue for the attacker.

Hmmm... actually, ignore me.

What's the vulnerability with light nodes?

I used to get monero prices with 'curl rate.sx/xmr', but it doesn't work anymore

Are there alternatives to getting the prices from the command line?

kittypity[xmpp]: > i know normies see Tor as a browser used by hacker and criminals

>

> they don't even know it was made for privacy & anonymity

I can tell even more. If they see you using terminal to do mundane tasks on your pc like switching from one directory to another with cd, they're gonna qualify you as a hAcKeR

kittypity[xmpp]: They are so silly and stupid that it's hilarious and drives the world to dystopia

Julian Kranz: You can always turn to the dark side, and join the Sith Lord 😂

ofrnxmr: Lost our sense of humor, have we?

nope

im a fed and defender of the fed emperor

Good.

im just been exposed

Yeah, I heard rumors to that effect 🤣

<toralien[m]> "ofrnxmr is a fed" <- see?

<toralien[m]> "he talks so much shit constantly..." <- 🕶

I saw that. Just didn't bother to comment.

yeah. was interrupting actually constructive conversations with fud

that how you know im a fed, working with toralien to derail discussions about vulns

i thought it was interpol mole

i cant keep up

Probably more that one glowie looming in these dark corners 🕵️

nono, im cia. fluffy is interpol

cmon. didnt you read the cia handbook? you show know im cia

Right. I heard fluffy gave the backdoor login to interpol or was it FBI.

yea. he gave it to cia (me)

Sorry. Hard to keep uå.

*up

now i do my best to to fud on whatsapp. i hope folks never use such a private service. they need icq

fud against* whatsapp and sigal*

i like my privacy attached to my time, location, and real indentity * 2, ik being private

s/ik/if/

I don't do whatsapp, signal or any of those millennial toys.

dont worry folks. india banned 14 messengers, didnt included signal or any of its fork honeypots

i trust signal

briar > banned

signal > ok

use signal, ofrnxmr is a fed for thinking metadata makes signal a targetted honeypot

oh, TIL that btc isnt for spening

So you assume everyone is subscribed to a channel more spammy than this one?

no

i have goals and dreams

ofrnxmr[m]: So what is this about?

maxi telling me im wong for wanting to spendbtc twitter.com/TheBitcoinRebbe/status/1653187645554524162

<TrasherDK[m]> "I don't do whatsapp, signal or..." <- youre a fed too??? nice

So you got into it with a typical btc NgU maxi. Allways fun to be had.

so slow

i started off pretty directly laughing at his 6 wallet recommendation

like bro, im new man, i need them all?

green guy too, doesnt recomment hw wallets

I kinda miss Michael Saylor tweeting. I always had some good laughs from that dude.

then tells me to use bl9ckstreans

s/recomment/recommend/

Well, that's the state of bitcoin mental capacity.

sith's fault

😂

mental capacity like the blocksize

#limited

but not equally divisible = limited.

Samourai wallet anyone 🫡

someoneelse49549: can you give an example where the reward doesn't correlate?

the forum is dead but the amount in the H1 fund should still be mostly accurate since we didn't have lots of payouts

"mostly accurate" is an accounting term, used frequently in the recent exchange blowouts.

what hashing algorithm does monero gui use for passwords?

i have fallen into owasp black hole

You should probably look at wallet2

1kdf round of.... i dont remember

cn_slow_hash i think

yeah kdf

should probably be Argon2id now or soon

why run an xmr node beside for mining?

like i don't get is useless and waste of electricity

Without running your own node, you can't trustlessly participate in the network

With a remote node you trust the data the node gives you

While your own verifies all transactions from genesis

Here's a victim of a malicious remote node monero-project/monero #8298

why have consensus POS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

running a node doesn't use much electricity

unlike mining

Are you talking about PoS. Brief pros and cons:... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…6981aca460acfec3f853731eeff2399c0d9>)

> <@mlcboss:matrix.org> why run an xmr node beside for mining?

>

> like i don't get is useless and waste of electricity

For decentralization is crucial to run nodes beside for mining. A consensus itself tends to centralization: few major mining pools of stake pools. But it's matter to preserve ability to make P2P connections with the network.

For example, some blockchains doesn't care about full nodes. To use them is common practice to use light wallets connected to the remote node as a client through HTTPS or websocket connection. This is concerning because:... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…949895d5bc2c5244459c40d31e96e68c260>)

Tldr

<DanIsnotthemanBr> "why have consensus POS !!!!!!!!!..." <- ^

ok

Just use binance wallet

Who needs seeds either

Trust is everything

Thats why its called trust wallet tm

Buy $twt

Central banks are the most trusted.

No, they are more decentrslized

Than crypto exchanges, by far

<cockliuser[m]> "Without running your own node..." <- ^

Tldr pt 2

wen jamtis btw?

2yr

same time as seraphis

> <@neeg:nitro.chat> For example, some blockchains doesn't care about full nodes. To use them is common practice to use light wallets connected to the remote node as a client through HTTPS or websocket connection. This is concerning because:... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…50b2a23a8e300e7b768257337e658d7bb30>)

it is

But idk how dandelion++ is robust against entities like LinkingLion. Additional IP protection may be a good idea.

Nick Almer: Dandelion++ is designed to defeat attacks like LinkingLion. You can read the paper: moneroresearch.info/index.php?actio…n=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=122

Ok, thanks. I need to learn how it works.

buy Monero via wire?

monero is not on popular fiat gateway

p2p

you can probably find a seller on agoradesk

hashem: no pls no bad idea

it is risky

k

sending wire to random dude which is not protected

i prefer doing this on financial institution

Localmonero/Agoradesk has arbitration bonds iirc

cockliuser[m]: ? , look if i send wire to some random dude / llc they can easily left me and stole my money

idc how trusted they are , they probably going steal large funds

and only do trade in small balances to maintain their review

Localmonero, the platform, has arbitration bonds to prevent this

On a listing with a bond you'll see "This trade is protected by an arbitration bond"

When you open a trade for 3 XMR, the equivalent amount is taken out of the seller's account into escrow

> <@danbs:matrix.org> kittypity[xmpp]: > i know normies see Tor as a browser used by hacker and criminals... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…67eb7e497387717cf8de319b1f6130470c5>)

ahh offtopic, i will del

> <@mlcboss:matrix.org> ? , look if i send wire to some random dude / llc they can easily left me and stole my money

>

> idc how trusted they are , they probably going steal large funds

The seller can't run off with your money without losing the coins to you.

It's not like a system where you just gotta trust the other side.

Hello, I have a tech question. I downloaded the blockchain on a computer. I am wondering if I can copy it on a SSD to use it on an other computer?

chch3003[m], all the blockchain copies should be the same, so yes you should be able to trust your own copy :)

Alright thanks, I will try

> <@neeg:nitro.chat> Are you talking about PoS. Brief pros and cons:... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…ba4342c7206bbf8c2ba30706b2860318127>)

* Some additional comments:

- High economic security: Since security depends on staked coins, not only rewards, rewards can be very low (there are multiple PoS chains that don't offer any rewards at all). Indeed, PoS rewards are mostly used for marketing ("Stake here and EEEEAAARRRNN!"). Optimally, every node is also a validator (Algorand's PPoS tries to do that) and the network gets quite decentralized.

- Less permissionless: That's a very weak argument. i know it's nice that one can exchange energy to XMR, but in the end there is just not enough XMR that is generated this way. The more people rely on this, the less XMR they can get.

I guess the amount of miner is a function of the value of the coin. when coin value will go up, network security will go up

I am an altruist miner so I don't care. If I don't mine, energy production surplus go into waste

Yeah, but generally the security vs. coin value is much worse for PoW than for PoS ;)

For me, the main and most important argument for PoW is the initial distribution which just doesn't work with PoS at all.

JulianKranz[m]: Are you sure?

Some rich can but 10% of the coin..

At the end 1% have all the stakes...

s/but/buy/

* Are you sure?

Some rich can buy 10% of the coin..

At the end less than 1% have all the stakes...

* Are you sure?

Some rich can buy 10% of the coin..

At the end less than 1% have most of the stakes...

Then you just have to find these people, give them some money so you can affect/attack the network

There is much discussion on that. Even if you are rich and buy 10% of the coin, this doesn't help you much. First, you need to buy half the supply to attack. Second, if you do this, an attack would mean you'd be slashed on a fork, so you'd only interrupt a chain, you wouldn't destroy it, and lose all your investment. Note that PoS does not automatically imply that you also use it for governance.

The second is valid

* The second is valid

> That's a very weak argument.

Also the amount of Dollars needed to buy up half the supply of even a medium market cap coin is immense. For Bitcoin, we talk something in the trillion dollar category if you consider the price impact of that buying so much of the coin.

PoS has been discussed ad nauseum. A few people, including me, have very strong opinions on this and I'd say the majority favors PoW. If you were to introduce PoS to monero, you'd likely get a chain split and end up on the weaker chain

Yeah I know it's (currently) impossible to get support for such a move for XMR :)

"currently"

lol

JulianKranz[m]: You dont need to buy the majority of the coin you just need control over it through staking pools

xmrack[m]: It's easier for a state actor to buy 2Bil monero than buy, build, maintain hardware for a 51% attack

PoW require humain work too

PoS only require push button using bit wallet from an human

s/bit/big/

Plus XMR mining is far from being as bad than bitcoin mining.

Just use you're current hardware, one CPU, one vote.,... kind of thing

you already have CPU

everyone using Monero have CPU already

no investment needed, you can start helping the network with what you already have

Opinions change. I think much of the hate against PoS comes from Bitcoin maximalist circles who just shit on everything. And this part of their hate is sticky, and copied in other places, but doesn't mean it makes more sense than the rest :D

<RavFX[m]> "PoS only require push button..." <- If your wallet is big enough, buying up enough compute power is also just a button.

Bitcoin mining encourage waste.

You have to invest ton of money for asic mining machine

theses machine have to go to waste after there useful life and you have to buy new machines....

Only fat wallet people allowed (asic are not cheap and people don't already have ASIC miners in the homes and pockets)

It would require less Dollars to get the mining equipment needed to attack Bitcoin than to get half the Bitcoin supply.

JulianKranz[m]: Building the computing power... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…2e03235cacd9801f559af6e5fc0ddf657b2>)

Plus, and I know this is Bitcoin-specific and not Monero, Bitcoin mining hardware is usually concentrated in a few places (China before, now the US), so it could just be taken over.

so you need to have competent people on payroll if you want a proper large scale mining operation

Yes, all this can be bought... it's in the end just a question of amount of Dollars you have vs. need

So more than one person pressing push button

RavFX is right with all the arguments

A lot of early PoW flaws have been fixed with RandomX

Compare the cost of the CPUs currently used for mining in XMR with half the market cap and you see that those numbers are so far apart that even if you add maintenance and all that jazz, it's still less secure.

RandomX prevent massing scaling of mining power in one location

You have to get ton of motherboard, CPU, **fast ram that you have to optimize for mining**.... Hardware than just calling bitmain to order 500 premaid machines

s/Hardware/Harder/

And the holders of XMR have to pay with significant dilution for it.

But yes

RandomX is much better than what Bitcoin does

Not question here

RandomX mining stuff take also a lot more space

* No question here

JulianKranz[m]: Tail emission is irrelevant in the PoW vs PoS discussion

No, tail emission is not irrelevant because tail emission is not really needed in a PoS system.

WRT PoS, be aware that Monero's threat model includes govenrments who don't care about financial incentives. They don't care if they lose a hundred million dollars "staking" if it means they get the ability to censor or deanon "bad guys"

Tail Emission is there to prevent a fee market and allow monero to be used as money

xmrfn[m]: Exactly my point and it's just cheaper for them to attack a PoW system compared to a PoS system.

JulianKranz[m]: Tail emission is crucial for dynamic blocksize

And PoS still expects some reward

You can tune all parameters as you eish

It doesn't get any cheaper with pos

Not sure about that Julian Kranz . Have you run the numbers on how many Ryzen are needed to 51% the XMR chain?

ceetee[m]: Also.

And dynamic blocksize is also crucial for monero to be used as money, without massive limitation a la bitcoin

PoS does not need a reward. There are multiple chains that run PoS without rewards. Rewards are mainly marketing. Most chains that currently offer rewards offer exactlly no rewards after dilution and tax.

tldr, Monero fixed Bitcoin, just Monero and forget about bitcoin :D

And even if you say you need a reward, it can be much lower than for PoW. much

no

* Bitcoin, just use Monero and

That's the fallacy pos advocates believe

Tail emission is needed to pay miners. Everything else can be substituted. The only real need for tail emission is mining rewards, i.e. network security.

"PoS without rewards" ... why not move to a pure validator network like Stellar at that point?

Monero shouldn't switch to PoS, it would become more centralised and one more excuse for govt to penalise XMR stake holders

you don't need a reward for running a node

If you design a PoS system well, running a validator is no more difficult

If you design a PoS system bad, running a validator is super expensive, needs a reward, and only 100 big corps want to do it

The main reward for running a validator should be that your stake is secure.

I don't care I don't want monero centralized stop with the centralization. I want control over my monero not the government.

JulianKranz[m]: running a validator node is a business now

The rewards I get for running a node are:

1. a more solid privacy guarantee, and

2. a nice warm feeling, like donating blood

xmrlover[m]: We want the same thing, we just disagree what is more decentralized ;)

does anyone know why the first non-hardcoded block (#1) was mined at 10:49:53? the published launch date was at 10:50 (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6146656#msg6146656)

L3M0R: Only in a bad PoS system. Every node should vote with their stake. No business here, just nodes.

Very different from ming, for which I want compensation

s/ming,/_mining_,/

I run many full node (as much node as I can actually)

running a node use unused hardware ressource

mining use energy (not free for most people)

nodes provide *redundancy*

miners provide *trustlessness*

Are there people running mining farms for Monero?

But in any way, I know Monero people dislike PoS, so I didn't expect anyone here to agree :) ... I just imagine how such a discussion would have turned out in a Bitcoin group... I would have been called a scammer and idiot 10x and been banned 3x, lol

I just really like RandomX

Julian Kranz: My biggest concern is to not alienate someone smart & inqusitive like yourself, even if you're looking at design decisions I don't like

JulianKranz[m]: I agree with you and know PoS is cheaper because I've calculated it myself, but I see debating as a waste of time

That's why XMR is actually making progress... not because everyone always agrees, but because things can be discussed :)

Monero is about solving a problem. Peer-to-peer electronic cash. No more, no less.

When not mining but having the daemon active, am I contributing by helping peers synchronize to the network? How can I track that this is really the case?

* of time. also I have no problem with PoW

JulianKranz[m]: i agree. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

toralien: yes you are. You can check by your out bandwidth

xmrfn[m]: I check net_stats but my total sent is always < total received

monerod is saying "W Unable to send transaction(s), no available connections"

Probably you are behind a NAT and unable to do P2P, would need port forwarding. Just like if you were running a minecraft server at home.

Configuring monerod with --public-node is another big thing. Right now I see ~50GB sent per day. At peak times I've seen ~100GB sent per day.

One of many reasons I run my node in a VPS, not at home. I need my bandwidth for work and pr0n.

xmrfn[m]: yeah I forgot to forward on the router.

Well, if you've opened it up now... then the Network just got stronger :)

the warning haven't popped up yet so yes \o/

Welcome to the darkside

DanIsnotthemanBr: Thank you!

Delighted to be here

Looks like we're seeing a significant tx volume bump. I like to think it is everyone being excited for Monerotopia.

Session app bros