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chowbungaman[m]
Teaching the Mexico City vendors that will be at MoneroTopia this weekend about Monero and onboarding them in preparation:
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chowbungaman[m]
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anonimauzanto[m]
If anyone here is interested in cofactors and the way they impact elliptics curves like ed25519 this article walks through some of the ideas and a mostly approachable explanation of the ideas:
loup-vaillant.fr/tutorials/cofactor
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anonimauzanto[m]
I found the article in a google search.
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cornfeedhobo
is there any reason to use accounts over new files, or vice versa?
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jeffro256[m]
If you use accounts you don't have to make new files lol
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jeffro256[m]
But besides that there's really not too much of a different, different accounts keep the funds "separate" from a UX perspective
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jeffro256[m]
Refreshing is easier if you use accounts
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jeffro256[m]
If you use different wallets with different seeds, then learning the seed for one won't compromise the other
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cornfeedhobo
in the wallet, are accounts derivation paths or something?
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jeffro256[m]
Traditionally yes, account spend keys are derived from the seed and an index number, and account view keys are derived from account spend keys. Subaddress spend keys are derived from account spend keys and an index number, and subaddress view keys are derived from subaddress spend keys
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cornfeedhobo
other than the threat of external parties matching addresses, is there any reason to make different addresses for moving coins, since stealth addresses are used on chain?
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cryptogrampy[m]
Created an issue to remove any wallets that don't fully support self-hosted light wallet server on the getmonero site:
monero-project/monero-site #2162 in case anyone wants to give feedback 😊
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lza_menace
hell yeah gramps
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lza_menace
+100
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morris_t[m]
yes works nice on pixel 6 pro
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ofrnxmr[m]
<cornfeedhobo> "other than the threat of..." <- Depositing to the same account and spending multiple inputs in the same tx lowers the likelyhood that they were randomly picked as decoys.
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ofrnxmr[m]
say you recieve 0.1xmr from kraken 7 times and localmonero 3 times, then spend 1 xmr.
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ofrnxmr[m]
youll spend a transaction of 10in/2out.
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ofrnxmr[m]
looking at the tx on chain, kraken can see with high likelyhood that 7 of the inputs they sent to the same address were spent together, along with 3 other, unknown inputs.
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ofrnxmr[m]
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ofrnxmr[m]
Example
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kico
always churn after withdrawing from exchanges
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ofrnxmr[m]
Even that will mix your 1 hop away to a known output
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kico
hmm
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ofrnxmr[m]
Thats why p2pool says to only use that wallet/address for p2pool. Multiple churns over time help, but the more data you add the more it stands out
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kico
oh you mean if you have only p2pool outputs and centralized exchange ones
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ofrnxmr[m]
If you are constsntly churning them into previously churned inputs from those sources
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kico
I see your point
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kico
I can live well with CEX bad ... but pee 2 pool bad is sad ..
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ofrnxmr[m]
all pools
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kico
yeah but we gotta mine somehow
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ofrnxmr[m]
Solo works for me (endor's gonna 💢)
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RavFX[m]
People just to impatient. Just solo mine and you are going to get a payout one day ;)
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ofrnxmr[m]
I have many reasons why solo is better
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kico
I've done a lot of solo mining
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RavFX[m]
There is nothing more enraging than seeing that you found a block while mining in a pool 😂
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cornfeedhobo
ofrnxmr[m]: when you say "same account" i assume this also applies to subaddresess then?
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kico
RavFX[m], I don't feel that way
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ofrnxmr[m]
at what difficulty :)
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ofrnxmr[m]
cornfeedhobo: Yeah
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ofrnxmr[m]
Subaccounts separate funds though
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ofrnxmr[m]
Can be treated as different identities
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kico
you guys think the network would be as big if there were only solo miners?
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kico
that would deff be the best scenario
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kico
just seems very improbable
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ofrnxmr[m]
yes
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ofrnxmr[m]
Bigger imo
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kico
fair enough I think it would shrink a lot
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ofrnxmr[m]
Pool mining is a ripoff and verrrryyyy often a scam
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kico
yeah it takes some trust
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ofrnxmr[m]
Example. Why do my block rewards go from 2.495>2.595>2.495>2.595?
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ofrnxmr[m]
Skimming
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kico
never really liked "the model" but then it seems hard to find a better one that does not compromise some privacy
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kico
ofrnxmr[m], not always
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ofrnxmr[m]
Or why do pools delay solo miners templates?
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kico
network diff changes
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kico
so does your "profitability"
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ofrnxmr[m]
Block reward for solo mining??
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kico
ofrnxmr[m], that was a bug and has been fixed afaik
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kico
ofrnxmr[m], yeah blockreward fixed but not fees
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: Which?
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DanIsnotthemanBr
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kico
about the block templates
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ofrnxmr[m]
nono diff issue
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ofrnxmr[m]
Youre talking about updating block templates from the daemon so tx are being mines efficiently
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ofrnxmr[m]
Im talking about the pool delaying sending that to solo miners
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kico
sending what?
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ofrnxmr[m]
Ive evn had blocks stolen
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: The job
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kico
pool has no solo miners?
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kico
I'm confused
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kico
sorry
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ofrnxmr[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Stolen as in, i hit the block, pool got paid, i did not
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kico
orphan blocks?
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: Solo:address vs
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ofrnxmr[m]
address
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ofrnxmr[m]
some pools solo: has a 3-5 second delay gettibg new blocks
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kico
you need to bump the number of connections on your node to prevent that someone else finds a block before the one "you found" is propagated
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: No, just like the pool removes solo: and decided to keep more of the reward
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kico
pool can't "steal blocks"
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ofrnxmr[m]
I dont think youre listening
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ofrnxmr[m]
Yes they can LOL
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kico
yeah I'm having a hard time
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ofrnxmr[m]
Either they pay ME because im mining solo
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kico
you are talking about a reorg?
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ofrnxmr[m]
Or thry DONT
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kico
you mean pools for solo mining?
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kico
why not just solo mine then?
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ofrnxmr[m]
No, im saying the pool was rewarded for my found block, i was not
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ofrnxmr[m]
I only solo xmr
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ofrnxmr[m]
To my own node
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kico
because you failed to propagate your block before they did
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ofrnxmr[m]
I mine shitcoins too though
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: Smfh
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kico
the pool can't "steal" a block dude
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kico
sorry
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ofrnxmr[m]
ITS MY BLOCK ON CHAIN
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kico
ok
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ofrnxmr[m]
They just paid themself instead of me
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ofrnxmr[m]
Tldr, dont mine on fastpool.xyz
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ofrnxmr[m]
Pools are custodial. They decide what to do with the funds
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kico
some pools scam the users yes
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kico
not all tho
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ofrnxmr[m]
all i know if the best pools are centralized badly
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kico
yeah that's why p2pool was created
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kico
but like everything else in the universe it has tradeoffs
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ofrnxmr[m]
support, nano, hashvault are top tier
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ofrnxmr[m]
c3pool, Herominers, 2miners and kryptex cant seem to fix their block templates but are top pools
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kico
I would love that everyone would just solo but that never really happened organically and will be very hard to enforce on the protocol level
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kico
in a way is fair at least
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ofrnxmr[m]
Enforce? Why?
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kico
because if you don't there will always be pools
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ofrnxmr[m]
You cant stop me from running xmrig proxy
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kico
exactly
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RavFX[m]
Because there will always be people who want to mine in pools, specially these pool hopping people with autodump script that only want to maximize profit
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kico
you wanted that everyone solo mines right?
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: So enfirce what?
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ofrnxmr[m]
kico: No
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ofrnxmr[m]
I said solo is better
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ofrnxmr[m]
Lol
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kico
then I have no clue what we discussing
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kico
yeah I agree
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kico
0 fees more decentralized
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kico
but unless you enforce solo mining (somehow) there will always be pools
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kico
because most people are lazy to run a node
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ofrnxmr[m]
Im ofrnxmr and i like discussing, so we argue who agrees more dammit
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kico
and can't wait for months to hit a block
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kico
or years
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ofrnxmr[m]
its not as long as ppl think
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ofrnxmr[m]
Calculators dont work fir solo mining
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kico
ofrnxmr[m], I was just trying to recenter the "talk" since we seemed to be talking about different things :)
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ofrnxmr[m]
More like "average"
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kico
it's luck or not
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kico
you can be lucky hit a block with 1% effort
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kico
or one with 200%
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ofrnxmr[m]
A bunch of em
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kico
that can be years depending on your HR
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ofrnxmr[m]
Ive never hit a block over 100%
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kico
awesome
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ofrnxmr[m]
Either i mine fir 2 years and hope hr stays low enough to keep it at 2 yrs
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RavFX[m]
I hit a blocks at over 300%.
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ofrnxmr[m]
Or i hit a block with a 1/720 chanch everyday
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RavFX[m]
and also 20%
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kico
it tends to 100% over a long span of time
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ofrnxmr[m]
Tge 20% block 1 time is all it takes to justify solo
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RavFX[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: That's a nice way to see it
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kico
unfortunatly this is what people don't get ... on the long run you win the same solo or pool mining
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ofrnxmr[m]
Look at any centralized pool, go look at who found the last blocks
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kico
(less the pool fee)
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ofrnxmr[m]
Theres a lot of small miners hitting blocks on pools and trading 0.6 reward for the bet that the difficukty wont increase for years
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ofrnxmr[m]
Ill take my 0.6 now, ty
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ofrnxmr[m]
Not "oh look, now its 8 years"
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ofrnxmr[m]
"And i found 3 blocks already and donated all of them"
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ofrnxmr[m]
Seriously, if pool miners paid attention to the shares they are finding, they stop donating to botnet miners
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kico
how much HR you got ofrnxmr[m] ?
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nioc
solo mining in wownero has resulted in lower HR
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ofrnxmr[m]
not really
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nioc
for the network
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ofrnxmr[m]
Its like 100mh across the 3 chainsplits
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ofrnxmr[m]
Only 25 25 and 50 or so
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ofrnxmr[m]
Which i thought was higher than pre
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nioc
the solo miners are complaining about the possibility of going back to pool mining because it would mean less profit for them
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ofrnxmr[m]
Yeah, because nobody uses wow
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ofrnxmr[m]
3 split chains, nobidy noticed 💀
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nioc
solo miners know that the HR will go up if pools are allowed
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ofrnxmr[m]
Shes a meme for bots to park some hr and a test attack network
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nioc
so they are crying
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ofrnxmr[m]
Wow is only like 10% more profitabke than xmr
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ofrnxmr[m]
Its nit 200% like before
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Guest17
Hi all - brand new here (both to IRC and monero) - is it possible/safe to package up a monero miner that runs as a process on someone else's device? Any thoughts on how to get started?
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nioc
oh wait, is this offtopic?
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ofrnxmr[m]
on moneroocean etc it wouldnt be algo switched to like it used to
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ofrnxmr[m]
Guest17: Someone ekses?
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Guest17
ofrnxmr[m] - yeah, like say I have a "free" game that you can pay for by leaving it open and it uses your device to mine on my behalf
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ofrnxmr[m]
Yeah, send me package, i run it? Or do you mean like "1 click setup for noobs?" Or you mean "no click background mining in secret"?
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ofrnxmr[m]
Guest17: Not on windows
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ofrnxmr[m]
Windows doesnt like monero mining related libs and will likely nuke your game
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Guest17
ofrnxmr[m] - game asks permission (in game preferably), and then you leave it open while it mines
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ofrnxmr[m]
Unless you tell the players they need to add antivirus exceptions for monero mining utiks
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ofrnxmr[m]
look into Townforge
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kico
Guest17, that's an interesting model
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ofrnxmr[m]
As a game with POW
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Guest17
ofrnxmr[m] - brilliant. Maybe the firewall exceptions could be a one-click accept
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kico
I think townforge was trying to be onchain game even
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ofrnxmr[m]
Townforge us a merge mined monero fork and video game
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Guest17
kico - nice. Yeah, imagine your character has to "go to the mines" and earns "gems" or something that allow you to proceed to new areas (like in an RPG)
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kico
Guest17, sounds fun :)
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ofrnxmr[m]
guest, really, townforge
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ofrnxmr[m]
Maybe can collab
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kico
Guest17, but ofrnxmr[m] is right you might encounter some problems related to the mining stuff windows hates it and some users could be freaked out
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Guest17
kico - but they're, you know, mining crypto
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kico
but if they know what they are going for ... then you might be able to work UI around it
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Guest17
kico - good to know. Townforge is open sourced - excellent.
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kico
just have a "windows will try to block this awesome game just say no!"
-
kico
thingy in there xD
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Guest17
👍
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kico
is townforge still being actively developed?
-
kico
iMember it stalled a bit at some point
-
Guest17
kico - last commit was ~3 weeks ago
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kico
sweet :)
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Guest17
I'm going full in on Monero and I want to get more involved. How do I create an account here?
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kico
on IRC?
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Guest17
So I'm not just "Guest"
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kico
/nickserv help
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Guest17
@kic
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kico
you oughta /nick yourhandle first
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Guest17
kico thx
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kico
yw!
-
kico
and hey ping me for beta testing pls :)
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PanTheMan
Ok - and to register a nickname?
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PanTheMan
nvrmd - I guess these are well-known commands I can just look up. Sorry@
-
PanTheMan
*!
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kico
PanTheMan, /nickserv help
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kico
you have what you need there
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kico
/nickserv help register
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PanTheMan
kico - thanks for the help. I'll definitely ping you for beta testing. The game might (probably) be NSFW for sexual content (nothing illegal). You cool with that?
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PanTheMan
Guess I should probably keep this about Monero =L
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kico
PanTheMan, yeah I'm ok with that :D
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kico
np man
-
kico
anytime
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ofrnxmr[m]
<PanTheMan> "Guess I should probably keep..." <- Monero Community Dev and Monero Offtopic are fine