<playmate7782[m]> "depending on what u call big..." <- The good thing is there are alot of monero sellers where im from and good prices...luckily.

Cake still having issues with apple and new app update?

<RavFX[m]> "Actually yeah, you can use xUSD...." <- > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Actually yeah, you can use xUSD.

> Hope singularity don't execute

Isn't xusd dead

<playmate7782[m]> "> <@gfdshygti53:monero.social..." <- > <@playmate7782:matrix.org>... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…f3dcc84d92ed4b93f80dffd4ebfb55a74a5>)

if some actor more powerful than you can confiscate your "muh hardmoney" either at gunpoint or at "law-point" (aka, courts, etc.) then you have "fuck all money".

btc'ers loove larping as if its 19th century.

the terrain has changed A LOT. Today, the govt overreach to your "muh freedoms" are unprecedented. They can invent various bullshit reasons for confiscating your property, and coerce you to part ways with it.

today the electronic surveillance techniques have matured to such a degree that was nowhere near possible in 19th century (le belle epoch for the branch-saifedeans)

<k4r4b3y[m]> "> <@playmate7782:matrix.org>..." <- > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> > <@playmate7782:matrix.org>... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…9b05d333277b866bfdc3777d9be6030bb80>)

<k4r4b3y[m]> "if some actor more powerful than..." <- > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> if some actor more powerful than you can confiscate your "muh hardmoney" either at gunpoint or at "law-point" (aka, courts, etc.) then you have "fuck all money".

>

true

<k4r4b3y[m]> "the terrain has changed A LOT..." <- > <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> the terrain has changed A LOT. Today, the govt overreach to your "muh freedoms" are unprecedented. They can invent various bullshit reasons for confiscating your property, and coerce you to part ways with it.

>

agree with this

I need to understand monero in detail first. am comparing with bitcoin. it took almost 5 years for me to understand btc on technical level.

eg hashing, blocksize war i.e btc vs bcash etc etc.

I need to understand monero in detail. people opposing increasing blocksize in btc were pro decentralization. so need to know how monero solves same problem. whats the max transaction per second in monero. eventually if more people use monero will it have same problem like btc i.e high fees, lag in transaction.

playmate7782: If you don't want on chain scaling, Monero is not for you. Monero's design goal is to scale on chain. It has a dynamic block size limit.

also still have to fig out why monero dont havr upper limit like btc. what if tomorrow some one launch fork or monero or new crypto with better privacy and scalability. and what if bitcoin community solves privacy issue. it is code can bitcoin guys make bitcoin like monero in future. cryptographers can come up with some thing new making btc, monero etc outdated.

have lot of question like how zcash is diff than monero.

I got background in economic

so its hard for me to decide which is best crypto reading white paper

same is problem with 99.99% people

I am open minded. dont worship one thing

The Cryptonote 2.0 white paper is outdated. It doesn't have RingCT or many other improvements to Monero over the years.

I believe people like andreas, james lopp are honest when it comes to bitcoin.

Rucknium[m]: now I have come across many feeds that dynamic blocksize is bad

it leads to less decentralization

is any youtubers or blogger who talks about monero

playmate7782[m]: It doesn't really

educate about monero??

playmate7782[m]: Yeah

Check out monero matteo

ok

Check out MoneroTalk

thing is too many youtubers. and many are not honest

playmate7782[m]: Yes

I follow monero talk on twitter

often listen them when they are live

Especially the ones who attack monero with BS claims

Monterotopia/MoneroTalk, Monero Magazine, Monero Matteo(?), MoneroKon presentations.

Check out Luke Smith's Monero related videos

this one right?

playmate7782[m]: Wait I will send like

Link

If you want more reliable info, read Mastering Monero and Zero to Monero like you said you would

This: piped.video/channel/UCn1P2pBjXNz2QL-Y9MuhXlg

Check out Monero Matteo's most recent video

The written word, with citations and math, is more reliable than videos

problem with pipe is cant watch live feed

dont know if thats fixed

Rucknium[m]: Sure. But videos/audios with basic explanations are more reachable for the general people

playmate7782[m]: I think it is fixed

Download LibreTube on fdroid

It is great

I am using GOS

playmate7782[m]: Based

have fdroid

playmate7782[m]: Perfect

playmate7782 complained that youtube videos are unreliable

but many apps not updated

Just download LibreTube

Also be on the lookout for MoneroTopia '23 videos that should be released soon. Also be on the lookout for the MoneroKon '23 talks

They should be top-notch for learning about monero

<Rucknium[m]> "playmate7782 complained that..." <- because many youtubers are biased and into pump and dump

Yes, so read the books

started with mastering monero

reliable youtube channel for updated info

books are not updated

on the side note have question how is bitcoin address generated on bitcoin blockchain wallet diff than stealth add in monero

As a receiver in Bitcoin, you hash one public key and send it to the sender. On the blockchain, the "recipient" is that hash. With Monero, as a receiver, you generate 2 public keys (view & spend) and send them to the sender. The sender does some math to calculate a new unique public key which you know the private key to called a "one time address". This is the public key which shows up on-chain. This way, in Monero, no 2 txs share the

same recipient

You actually can technically double up and send to the same address twice, but it can only be spent from once ... but that's just an edge case you don't have to worry about

am looking at that diagram on the book

so was wondering sender knows by wallet

sender see my public key. and generate stealth address

but as every time new add is generated they cannot link my other one time add on blockchain right?

Yes, even if you send to the same Monero address ("4/8......."), the one time addresses that appear on chain have no correlation with one another

ok cool I though if I send same one stealth add for more than one transaction. all transaction will be linked

wait diagram says sender generates stealth add

Well you don't normally see "stealth addresses" as a user, you see Monero addresses. (which is why "address" is a terrible term for this thing, users don't provide "stealth addresses" to each, they are created when constructing transactions).

If you wrote custom wallet code, you could construct two transactions with the same on-chain one-time public key / "stealth address", but this doesn't happen with normal wallets, especially since you can only spend from a unique one-time public key once

stealth address is generated with some hashing algorithm on receivers base wallet right?

Yes sender *generates* stealth address (the wallet code does it), but you wouldn't, as an end user, "send" to one-time public key ("stealth address". You "send" money to Monero addresses

If you send to a Monero address multiple times, your wallet will generate multiple unique one-time public keys ("stealth addresses") for you

The thing you copy and send to your friend who owes you money is a Monero address, one-time public keys ("stealth addresses") are limited to one transaction and never get used again

so if accidentally my friend use old(used) stealth add, what happen?? error occur?

ok got it. everything happen in background

I was comparing with bitcoim

Your friend wouldn't use an old stealth address, they are freshly generated by the wallet code every time it makes a tx

I dont have to send new receiving add for every transaction

its done automatically by wallet

Your friend does not have the ability (unless they write their own source code) to specify which one-time public key ("stealth address") shows up in their transaction

Yes, its done automatically by the wallet which is why I hate the term "stealth address" because it isn't an address and it makes it confusing for newcomers

ONE TIME HASH would be better

or simply stealth(without add)

Well it's not a hash its a public key

its basically one time text used for adding on blockchain

sorry public key

Part of the public key scalar are calculated using hashes, but the result is a public key of which the recipient knows the corresponding private key

And the same pubkey can never be spent more than once

Hence the "one-time" part of the name

basically 1) one private key 2) public key i.e add and 3) public key for each transaction which will be added on blockchain?

right?

No private keys show up on the blockchain

The public keys are just calculated in such a way that the recipient can know the corresponding private key to "their" received public keys

public key is seed words?

s/public/private/

There's 1 tx public key for the whole transaction and one public key per recipient in a transaction

The private keys are derived from the seed, yes

addres starting with 4 is my public key?

and add starting with 8 one time public key for blockchain?

or thats totally diff from public key

The address starting with a 4 or an 8 is your "Monero address" and contains 3 parts: the public view key, the public spend key, and a checksum (to prevent errors while copying the address)

and How to verify/link transaction ID with payment received? wallet does that or have to copy paste on terminal and calculate hash?

If your Monero address starts with a 4, it's a "primary address" and if it starts with an 8, it's a "sub-address". They're just different address types like in Bitcoin ("1...." vs "3...." vs "btc1....")

public view key and public spend key is bit new concept for me.

seems bit too technical

The wallet will do it automatically by trying to basically (I'm oversimplifying) redoing the calculation that the sender will perform to create the one-time public key, and if the result matches with what's in the transaction, then a receiver wallet knows that that transaction is for them

bitcoin we got public key and private key. its key pair. private key is to spend/verify transaction

name PUBLIC SPEND KEY is confusing

In Monero there are 2 key pairs: view and spend. If you're a receiver, you need the private view key to view incoming transactions, and the private spend key to actually spend

oh k so total 4 keys

I think this was not their in 2016

because of this update genesis mining had halted payouts

So in total for Monero: (private view key, public view key) & (private spend key, public spend key). The receiver knows all 4, the sender only knows public spend key and public view key

2016 in Monero?

may be 2017

I had purchase 5000 tera hash on geneisis-mining

thats was only bitcoin

had purchased 2 years monero mining contract

and they stopped monero mining payout for months

AFAIK there has always been both view/spend keys since the inception of the Cryptonote protocol even before Monero

I dont remember exactly but Monero miningbI spend 50k usd

They might've stopped the mining because if the PoW change in 2018

genesis guys told me it was not their fault

It switched to Cryptonight variant 1 in 2018

they used ASIC only for bitcoin. mostly they did on GPU

they invited me to iceland mining location for tour also

but had very bad experience with monero

they stopped monero payouts of everyone

so frustrated I converted monero to bitcoin

also I was using free wallet

they are outnof bness I guess

RIP never use online wallet they will rug pull you 100% of the time

they also froze my altcoims

Free Wallet is a known scam wallet.

yup

luckily I pulled out most of amount

That sucks ...

it was early days. and did not have much monero wallet

Monero has tried to prevent ASICs from being used to mine XMR. Maybe the mmining company, if it was not just a scam, bought many Monero ASICs. Then they became useless when Monero conquered ASICs.

I put almost 10 million USD on behalf of my clients

people thought I scammed them

i means 10 million usd in mininf

lot of people lost money. post 2017 crash

learned hard way never manage money for others

so basically I can import public view key in mobile wallets?

no worry about mobile being seized by Gov/tax guys etc

If you're managing anything over $10K you should get a hardware wallet thats crazy

And yes if you're gonna carry a device around definitely make it a "view-only wallet"

cannot buy. custom department seizes hardware wallets in India

need some one to buy and fly inside

I ordered btc hardware wallet 4 years ago

it shipped to India but was impounded

You can use any old computer as a cold wallet, just remove any internet connectivity

Even a raspberry pi

merope: I bought raspberry pi

but before doing anything. want to make sure I know what am I doing

Once you get the full wallet on the raspberry pi, here's a guide on how to make a view only wallet from the full wallet:

Honestly you don't really need to know much about all this one-time-pubkey stuff for regular usage, it's all handled under the hood. All you need to do is give your friend one of your addresses (like 888tNkZrPN6JsEgekjMnABU4TBzc2Dt29EPAvkRxbANsAnjyPbb3iQ1YBRk1UXcdRsiKc9dhwMVgN5S9cQUiyoogDavup3H) and they will send monero to it, and your wallet will scan the chain and find the incoming transaction - same as in Bitcoin

merope: I need to know. their are two many crypto. also many privacy related crypto. why choose monero compared eg zcash or something else

whats stopping bitcoin developers to make bitcoin like monero with some fork or update

Nothing but their willingness to do it. And they have repeatedly shown that they're not willing to make the changes necessary

I own western union , money gram franchise. have introduced almost 1000 people to bitcoin.

now if I want them to trade in monero they gonna ask me lot of question

I do currency exchange

There's no chance in hell that Bitcoin devs will ever allow base layer amount hiding which is why Monero ring anonymity can be so much better at a theoretical level than Coinjoin

my clients/customers are mostly old dudes with lot of money

they want to do international payments outside banking

You could start with the fact that BTC will not last more than 20-30 years with the current setup. After that, either everybody will have to willingly pay insane tx fees, or the BTC mining network will start losing hashrate and it will get worse with every halving

merope: this is what monero folks are saying.

bitcoin folks are countering with lightning

I need to understand myself every nut bolts and make decision

That's what math is saying. Without a tail emission and a 1MB blocksize, either users start paying massive fees on the base layer, or the mining incentive will start to drop

Lightning is layer 2. Can't have a layer 2 if your layer 1 goes down in flames

merope: but if hardware quality increases , 20 years from now blocksize of bitcoin can be 100 mb

(I'm writing a paper on that, hopefully gonna publish it soon ™️)

atleast same as bcash

merope: their twitter acc MONERO TIME

he tried to explain but did not understand fully

playmate7782[m]: And how willing are you to bet that they will actually increase the blocksize? Something that they were meant to do a long time ago already?

Besides, that would just push the problem further down the line, but would not solve it

playmate7782: I can't understand your reasoning. You sided with the 1MB small blockers in 2017 but you want BTC to have 100MB blocks in the future?

merope: whole argument was running full node on old laptop or cheap hardware

Lightning doesn't fix fundamental problem with base layer fungability or scalability. Also there is nothing stopping Monero from adopting a layer 2 or completely ripping lightning right now. The reason it isn't done is because layer 1 on Monero isn't crippled

BTC is not going to increase the block size. It already happened in 2017.

20 years from now avrg hardware people usong will be much better. compare iphone of 2007 with today

<playmate7782[m]> "whats stopping bitcoin developer..." <- Lol never gonna happen

You say you are an old timer OG, so you should know that already

You'd still need enough L1 transactions to keep paying those fees, otherwise the mining incentive goes down again and you're still in trouble

Bitcoiners panic when they ear the "fork" word

The only way to fix it is basically tail emission

(Like Monero has already been doing for over a year)

It's basically the eighth deadly sin at this point for a BTC maxi to suggest a hard fork

imajin the amount of fork required to update bitcoin for a privacy money, Assuming it will have to be fixed many time in the futur (like it did with Monero)... Many forks :D

Rucknium[m]: am saying if future hqrdware i.e 15/20 years from now is cheaper and better, those who were opposing increased block size might not oppose it in future

personally I think they wont increase block size. they want to do off chain with lightning

but many things changes. 20 year is too long time

Compare 2010 hardware with 2017. IIRC Satoshi set the 1MB limit in 2010. The 2010's was a time of major hardware advancements. The small blockers couldn't even compromise on 2MB in 2017

merope: If I could go back and change one thing about Monero that didn't require future knowledge of cryptography or unhuman levels of foresight, it would be to make Monero's emission curve less steep. IMO there was too much XMR emitted the first couple years of its existence. Other cryptos, like BTC, didn't make it so incredibly advantageous for early adopters

The bigger the blocksize, the lower they can set the tail emission

There is no indication that anything will be different, politically, in a decade or more.

jeffro256[m]: Agreed. Hell, I suspect it might make sense to set a higher tail emission *today*, just to get extra hashrate

<jeffro256[m]> "Lightning doesn't fix fundamenta..." <- yup. but many see dynamic block size as cripple

But predicting the impact of such a change on future price is basically anybody's guess

playmate7782[m]: Because they don't understand how it works, and they thing anyone can just spam 1GB blocks overnight

*think

hmm

It's dynamic, but there are constraints

Many smart people see 1MB block size as cripple

jeffro256[m]: I raised this point the other day. Cc: @ofrnxmr:monero.social

but I dont believe that they are dumb. all of them eg pro bcash or anti bcash all understands cryptography, encryption, coding

eg Adam back is pro btc

they might be biased

It's not about intelligence, it's about willingness to accept change

dont see they are dumb or dont understand monero

They don't want to change things (for whatever reason), so any argument you will bring will get rejected outright

merope: may be they are afraid if they abandon bitcoin, whole crypto will crash

Satoshi has 10% of supply, isnt btc a terrible example

^this

something better than monero can be invented

and than if every one jump to new coim

playmate7782[m]: There's definitely a happy medium somewhere. For example, ETH/Solana bandwidth is enormous, so much so that it makes it impossible for people to run nodes on consumer hardware. But the BTC community refuses to ever increase the block flow rate, not even to 2 MB/10 minutes, and it has become ingrained as a personal principle amongst BTC maxis that this limit is never going to increase. And I think we can agree here,

without the political blinders, 2 MB / 10 minutes of bandwidth is not enough to run an entire international monetary system on, and putting the limit this low is unnecessarily conservative

Smart people can disagree. What is surprising about that?

cryptocurrency wont have adoption. thats what they are thinking

if something better than Monero will be invented, Monero will be the first in line to adopt those changes

playmate7782[m]: Dynamic blocksize is a cripple? If anything is a "cripple" it is the 1 MB blocl size limit.

RavFX: Ignore that, bridge lag

jeffro256[m]: even Maxis agree. and they want digital gold. not digital cash.

thats one of argument I heard

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

k4r4b3y[m]: yup. thats also way to look at it

Maxis done want digital gold, %hat was 2022

playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> even Maxis agree. and they want digital gold. not digital cash.... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…18ffc586fe49632d6e9ad3dcc49fd2e9f3e>)

Now they want custodial l3

Not even joking

L1 is just for nft security budgrt now

L2 isnt feasible

ofrnxmr[m]: The absolute state of it..

L3 is where its at and being shilled by maxis

Monero has a long history of adopting improvements even when "Monero" did not invent it. For example, Dandelion++ was designed for bitcoin. Monero has it. Bitcoin doesn't. Confidential transactions, too. Monero improved them with RingCT.

but ordinary folks who dont understand encryption, coding, etc etc they will buy what people lik saylor say.

And they went from "noooooo!!" To "this was always the plan. Satoshi intended this"

ofrnxmr[m]: thats for mass adoption I guess. for old dudes or pensiom funds

playmate7782[m]: > <@playmate7782:matrix.org> but ordinary folks who dont understand encryption, coding, etc etc they will buy what people lik saylor say.

>

So? What is your point? You wanna catch the next pump n dump? I heard PregnantElonInuPepe isnthe next one.

Satoshi wanted to continue to let the blocks grow, as needed...

Didntbsatoshi make a wallet

RavFX[m]: Facts

Called wallet of satoshi 🤡 maxis

if USA make bitcoin legal tender along with USD, USA can make fiat currency of most african nation and many south americam and asian countries worthless

ofrnxmr[m]: Such a slap in the face to their idol

they can use it as tool to counter BRICS

playmate7782[m]: Custodial crypto is a contradiction. Custodial = bank. The whole point of crypto was to replace banks

playmate7782[m]: btc doesnt even work for 500k peopke

Can someone please help. I'm concerned that people who hear this message are going to hurt themselves: twitter.com/udiWertheimer/status/1668821428144164865?s=20

500k daily users*

merope: see!!! Fkn maxis are brainwashdd af

The fact that you have to look at the network before sending a btc TX...

Its so strange

cryptogrampy[m]: Bitcoin is a death cult.

Its like real workd madd hysteria

Mass*

<merope> "> <@playmate7782:matrix.org..." <- yup. they have.incentive to sell and make it a ponzi scheme as they were early

Its a ponzi by nature of its inability to resch is stated goals

The only thing it can do is rug new comers

merope: The point is making government fiat money obsolete. Banks still have a place in a crypto-only world, just like they did in a gold-only world.

... or hard fork

That's why they are crazy about getting people to buy btc, not "use" it, and certainly not concerned with noncustodial use."Just buy bro, let the ponzi go on"

I agree that there will always be custodial solutions (example being xmr loans)

cryptogrampy[m]: LMAO he could've just said "send it to a burn address" instead of "die with your keys"

Or banks who hold your keys and "insure" them

"Banks" will have to stay if they want to keep bitcoin, for sure

jeffro256[m]: KEK SO TRUE

saylor and the other orange pilled guy who is in el salvador or mike maloney atleast taking people away from CBDC

BUT HE HAD TO SAY "DIE" LMAO

What a deranged bunch

I personally think Bitcoin vs monero vs zcash vs dash etc should take place only after making people ANTI FIAT

let free market in long run decide whats best

No one is going to abandon fiat for nothing. The best methods is convince them that fiat can be replaced by something with greater advantages

playmate7782[m]: Bitmaxis are fiat maximalists. Don't expect them to turn against dollars all the while they value the usd ngu

Free market already decided

if their is classical libertarian gov in USA their might not be crackdowns

Atleast?

playmate7782[m]: _Bro.. I..._

What in the world `re you talking about

Cbdc is far better that bitshitcoin

Yknow, it actually WORKS for 400m people and isnt already obsolete

Bitcoin cant even handle california.

Heck, it cant handle a city of 100k peopke adopting it TODAY

k4r4b3y[m]: alwys hope and be positive 😀😄

playmate7782[m]: That's called being naive

playmate7782[m]: I agree but you are being positive about insane hopes

CBDC will happen 100%

Obviously

Its already at max capacity

B b b but lightning

ofrnxmr[m]: Something something el salvador....

in a way, if satoshi nakamato didn't invented bitcoin we would have seen CBDC arrive way later

world bank, wef, imf etc will punish countries who have paper cash and who dont share transaction with uncle sam

playmate7782[m]: I think the eu will be first

monerobull[m]: They loove sucking up to the uncle sam

monerobull[m]: yes. They're political influence and lack of technical knowledge will definitely accelerate this

s/They're/Their/

Canada might join the party relatively early too

k4r4b3y[m]: We must defend american interests!!

Converting Germany will have to be done with force like in Nigeria or take at least 30 more years

European teens and younger generation are brainwashed and cucked as per my observation

Untill the cash loving people get mostly replaced by apple pay zoomers

monerobull[m]: I see germany youngsters most brainwashed

have been to germany

they believe all the environmental BS

playmate7782[m]: The trick is, the immigrants don't 😂

I always admirer American constitution and idea of America. about Freedom

now FREEDOM dont exist in west

Can't have massive amounts of conservative people come in to somehow pay for the retiring boomers and also make them woke at the same time

and young people following BERNIE SANDERS and AOC is making me believe USA might be doomed

playmate7782[m]: Constitution is long dead bro. Nobody cares.

I am pro CAPITALIST. Many monero forks and anarchist confuse cryonyism with capitalism

k4r4b3y[m]: yup agree

s/forks/folks/

<monerobull[m]> "The trick is, the immigrants don..." <- politician will promise immigrants BS. They will promise them to let them bring more immigrants. also they will bring GRETA. they will say peper is bad for environment

they will eventually fuck immigrants

I was thinking to move to germany became their is no speed limit

I admire german automobile

love ducatis

now in name of environment they want to ban speed limit

s/became/because/

...I think the conversation has derailed a little

My matrix lagging. Might have a bunch of msgs come thriugh randomly

yea. was confused about two public address

now I got it

what about quantum safety

how do we protect our moneros against fucking magic

highfive[m]: Part of monero is immune

Other part, not.

tying to relocate the research

RavFX[m]: > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Part of monero is immune

> Other part, not.

what part is immune?

Looking for the research paper

but don't remember what or what.

I think Random-X is okay. So they can't instamine block

i really wonder whether there even is any algorithm executable by classical computers which can orchestrate a safe scheme at all

the looking for the keys stuff, or the nice table I did see before

Problem is that yes you can make classical scheme that is quantum resistant.

But it's a lot of time and research, and many of such algo are crackable easily using classical computing.

that just implies its also not quantum secure?

"The signature scheme used in Monero EdDSA is vulnerable to quantum attack as it relies on the discrete logarithm problem. However Monero gains some resilience to quantum attack through the anonymity of its users as well as the amounts being transacted. Although the Bulletproof protocol used in Monero to achieve this obfuscation of transacted amounts is vulnerable to quantum attack, an attacker would be reliant on luck in order to select a

transaction of significant value. Furthermore, due to a recent change in the consensus protocol implemented on Monero where RandomX was introduced, it would also have further resistance to quantum attacks attempting to perform a 51% attack utilizing Grover’s algorithm."

i barely understood deutsch-josza, need to freshen up on grover and all of those

btw, scroll down on that document

most coins have "high" risk, monero have "medium".

It's a good start.

And I think Seraphis will fix some of that if not all right?

The largest problem I probably have with Q is what kind of weapons you can make with it

das rite it was deutsch-josza, shor's, grover's

what about we have AI generate a number of post-q encryption schemes and diversify accordingly, and then rely on safety through probability

* through probability that some of the schemes are safe

then the only surviving scheme is used to fork the chain and restore user funds