<c​hunk0x> Does someone want to trade paypal (euros) for Monero?

<c​hunk0x> I'll pay interest

<f​atcontroller:tchncs.de> @bridgerton. How much do you need?

<c​hunk0x> €12

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> What is the credit limit on this anon, no kyc, creditcard?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I lost my bitcoin in a totally private way, so I'll be fine 😆

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> meant to say debit card

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> You forgot the "Trust me bruh"

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> With my life

<j​accid> sup

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> the sky

<i​tssky70> bro are you monero miner (xmr)

<f​atcontroller:tchncs.de> A Monero card is a great idea. How is the signature for the input unlock element of the transaction generated?

<f​atcontroller:tchncs.de> The sending wallet address remains the same but isn't the digital signature unique each time?

<c​hunk0x> Why the fuck should I ask for XMR if I already have?

<c​hunk0x> Why the fuck should I ask for XMR if I would already have?

chunk0x this isn't a monero<->fiat trading platform with a trusted escrow so can you go and find one please, thanks

<i​tssky70> ok alright are you solo miner

<c​hunk0x> I aint a miner

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I'm a solo miner 😬

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 07:58:58.130 I Found block <49760b15a792cd47c34348d0028a0a737383bff82781a0176e1856f215eb9184> at height 1505297 for difficulty: 213484

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:00:47.531 I Found block <665fe9e32f523b1b3fe3f961a3385aff12063141a3d4d37fffb4c402e0286ad8> at height 1505299 for difficulty: 213612

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:04:47.232 I Found block <a76dcde2de1c056163797cd7a095c5e3bf85c37ea0b77fe09d6f8c3dd94c4e9f> at height 1505300 for difficulty: 213176

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:08:55.327 I Found block <14ea6193ddd25bce568b5a5021f77f4ef34c587e99b44640c02d6644f8918dca> at height 1505303 for difficulty: 213882

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:17:32.677 I Found block <619f639c16bb8ec68a1693f2f51c2a8cb1573286e54dfef3ccedde6fbb958a71> at height 1505307 for difficulty: 214199

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:27:47.926 I Found block <ff5910a50ab584ea11bfb4877e7d4a3d2e758276e1192c27907ca1ecec982038> at height 1505315 for difficulty: 213074

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:35:21.534 I Found block <5563c6e70b9c0e105a9cbb62f7454e4e559f03871550afdc68e86c804e67fdb5> at height 1505318 for difficulty: 214011

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:36:59.411 I Found block <637333d7221407c34f102be4a8375805da2309442d1f8c2ce21473b273cff556> at height 1505319 for difficulty: 214437

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:38:36.609 I Found block <3c160002a46b682006b5a1166e6816d9c588f1786fc608e626f49844433b061b> at height 1505320 for difficulty: 214324

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:40:45.840 I Found block <4f92f1bdd5f6a9d63d8e77a8649c7c0767a10b21af0773ac09d5babf0a788997> at height 1505321 for difficulty: 214237

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:47:47.158 I Found block <1658fee88bfc9ea43f204398fb5f2b1e2b4a111a941d2c700257b374393316d0> at height 1505322 for difficulty: 214381

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 08:53:04.021 I Found block <9b295e6e0b2ee4abc19103433866715ffb743ceedb81f362b215ddeda291e32e> at height 1505323 for difficulty: 216000

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 09:00:17.585 I Found block <844a3b92c5a34a39761f5b86ee49ecd12c358833bd5c15157cc27ce16fd3244e> at height 1505325 for difficulty: 214887

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<i​tssky70> please type properly !

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Tough luck. Bridges suck.

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> FUCK CAPITALISM

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> abolish money

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> especially monero

If you want abolish your Monero, you can send it to me

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> nope no one will accumulate wealth on my watch

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> how does the boot taste

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Can I have a taste?

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> what

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> just stop licking the capitalist boot

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Only selsta’s one

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> capitalism is feudalism except the serfs had more rights

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> dang TrasherDK .. what hardware?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Here's the wallet side of my mining operation 😎

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:30:09.157 W Received money: 2.055929138362, with tx: <12d5bd1f9c5831b5ddcd121653f3cda764b09c82f959550c6313ddb6e75ce983>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:33:09.455 W Received money: 2.056379614263, with tx: <e6655a61013a1db3e99db55fa52c3cd9fe04fe76556fed52f6ef3df6a2f59bb8>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:36:09.829 W Received money: 2.055913452912, with tx: <7278e3e55638241d46409f481dd9e7081830bca6edcea917b1fd7fc952ee46bf>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:46:51.007 W Received money: 2.055905610232, with tx: <c53975adecb154de6f01256fd0cac42178a708f78a70178368876e69d8d1ecf7>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:52:51.854 W Received money: 2.055886003663, with tx: <9898fbe525e25e55db96011dbcfa71ad7d6425057d96b85b527623af76645872>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:54:32.097 W Received money: 2.055882082372, with tx: <005907078ec8c0cf79cb0a14912802fcfa3c6776f45704555e95d4d563a93ef8>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:56:32.306 W Received money: 2.055878161088, with tx: <764285235ca495d70d2226d73648a322e78705dac6dca10b285ad6f2410b62b2>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:57:52.441 W Received money: 2.055874239812, with tx: <be23cb93830a392e65e57c8598069f51de6103ef7aa41a5fe0fda648b0af0639>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 10:59:12.631 W Received money: 2.055971417281, with tx: <a2309ceb3f9be85627b561f7f004ba3321d270ba31cfb41a4493ae9395e9199a>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 11:04:33.190 W Received money: 2.056092736027, with tx: <13dde7a1f5a9c1ea96fd816925faade142216ad1f98422dcbceafe193b009de9>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 11:06:53.464 W Received money: 2.055858554781, with tx: <3e1877d099111a47ef57eb0f3e389e9d5e7b7d5e7cd4bc2fdb5c01c2eb40ce0e>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 11:11:54.136 W Received money: 2.055835027459, with tx: <bbc1e89149746028a4303b3a18cc83c75eb02976cffd3f22c9de667e49972e2a>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 11:21:34.951 W Received money: 2.055819342727, with tx: <088fea0825feea185bd7fe3bd6030f49c0bc0371eaad47497b6cc57ed377d637>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 11:32:15.937 W Received money: 2.055799736981, with tx: <44b55c92ffb845bc5c7dc5bc3fdd072f3bbc638e7433741609e8f8641fdf843e>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> 2023-12-21 11:37:16.492 W Received money: 2.055795815854, with tx: <dbddddc10374e7044b1d9c65dc2cda5fe1b2307d1747aef3a2bcd271e7d8ab4f>

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> wait.. is that monero?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> The hardware:

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Linux ghost 5.15.117 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Jun 22 15:39:49 CDT 2023 x86_64 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1230 v5 @ 3.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> It's a `Dell PowerEdge R230` 😅

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> stagenet.. :)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Height: 1505405/1505405 (100.0%) on stagenet, mining at 495 H/s, net hash 1.83 kH/s, v16, 12(out)+12(in) connections, uptime 15d 22h 47m 57s

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ```

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Someone got to mine those empty blocks.

Same joke spammed twice

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> And it's still around 25% of the hashrate.

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> as monero becomes more used wealth inequality will exponentially increase

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> im not sure about that. It's been a long while since our civilization has used money that can't be controlled by authorities

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> can you give an example of that working?

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> define working. And secondly, there's nothing comparable to cryptocurrency in history.

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> working = being successful and not just a techbro gimmick

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> and secondly how would it not lead to massive wealth inequality

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> so an example of authority-less money that wasn't a techbro gimmick from our history? or an example of monero working now?

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> the former

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> well for one, if you are a wage earner, your employer would somehow have to justify decreasing your pay every year to counter the natural deflationary nature of monero

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> secondly, the money you earn retains its purchasing power because it doesn't get inflated away by "smart people keepin the 'comony goin"

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> i don't think there are any examples in our history of authority-less money that wasn't a techbro gimmick

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> i mean unless you consider gold a techbro gimmick. but even that had an authority somewhat, with those that would verify the gold and handle it etc

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> first of all deflation isn't necessarily good and has its problems

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> oh for sure

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> ( but of course monero actually has inflation so ..... )

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> .... iTs pErFeCt!

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> bit of an oversimplification, its not like they print for fun there is some valid reasoning for it

<9​_11_01> yo isnt monero more attackable than btc

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> In what way?

<9​_11_01> idk commonly 51% attack

no, it's less attackable, and an attacker cannot accomplish as much as a BTC 51% attacker

<9​_11_01> then why do people complain that monero is less secure

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > > <@gingeropolous:monero.social> secondly, the money you earn retains its purchasing power because it doesn't get inflated away by "smart people keepin the 'comony goin"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > bit of an oversimplification, its not like they print for fun there is some valid reasoning for it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Weeeeeeee

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Brrrrrrrrrrrrr

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Ask them. My guess is they will probably say something about a security budget, which will be an excellent opportunity to discuss the disappearing BTC block subsidy.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <9_11_01> then why do people complain that monero is less secure

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Let me ask _you_ this:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> do you mine btc

<9​_11_01> i thought about it

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> yes its an oversimplification, but I'd argue those "valid reasons" are mostly rooted in failures of governance. Long story short, I'd argue that managing your civilization by directly manipulating the value storage instrument is indicative of failed governance.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <9_11_01> i thought about it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why didnt you?

I had to buy an asic thing

gotta love those asic things

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Monero's PoW is much more secure than most other PoW coins. ASIC resistance is a huge necessity to keep a higher decentralization capability. The fact Monero used CPUs is also another huge plus as ANY computer can mine Monero, not just those rich enough to afford GPUs.

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Monero's PoW is much more secure than most other PoW coins. ASIC resistance is a huge necessity to keep a higher decentralization capability. The fact Monero used CPUs is also another huge plus as ANY computer can mine Monero, not just those rich enough to afford GPUs.

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> The addition of P2Pool was a gamechanger too, as before p2pool, the pools were the centralization risk. Now we have none on the mining side of things.

the potential to solve pool centralization is there. people still need to switch to p2pool before we're totally safe there

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It require more work

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> but I do use p2pool because it's worth it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Solo > p2pool > centralized p2pools

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> or moneroocean if you want to make xmr more attractive/profitable to mine

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If youre the immediate gratification type, go in opposite direction

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Moneroocean > centralized p2pool > p2pool > solo

small pool > medium pool > LARGE pool

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> no pool except p2pool, p2pool layers or moneroocean type pools 💯

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Large pool = never. Lol. Gotta be crazy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> medium pool = lol.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> small pool = just solo, u naive sucker.

I don't care for dust payouts or making unnecessary consolidating txs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Centralized p2pool or moneroocean

sucker says hello :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Moneroocean = 2-4x profits and pumps xmr price by dumping zephyr

and then people dump the xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Centralized p2pool = p2pool without the dust

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> they have to dump less to pay the billz

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And it constantly transfers the MC of other coins into monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Moneroocean is like a vampire

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Drinks the blood of noobs who yolo into shitcoins

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> There are a few centralized p2pools.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monerod.org i think

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Aterx minexmr2

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, monerod.org

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> speaking of which, one if their miners seems to have completed soloptxmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/NJsUUskqEMemhzUQypUGYCgv

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's relatively easy to make manage your solar for mining.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I also have such a system, just no nice UI.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This is home assistant

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Integration

isn't today Thursday?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> SCC have serial ports

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> and my coulombmeter also have serial port.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Easy to have data about battery SoC and current sunpower input

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> Sorry if this has been asked before: On my mode, "monerod status" shows zero incoming connections and only the number of outgoing IPv4 connections, yet there are also a lot of Tor outgoing AND incoming connections according to "monerod print_cn".

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> Any reason why the Tor connections aren't included in the count? Are they somehow "less beneficial"? Or simply a bug?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Idk

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tor connections arent counted because they are tx relay only

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Status only shows peers thats youre syncing blocks to and from

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sync_info shows total

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> I see. Would be great to include full Tor support in monerod though

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You can do blockchain sync over exit nodes (0 incoming connections though)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> `--proxy=127.0.0.1:9050 `

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> but that is not something everybody should do. Im just saying its "possible" to sync behind tor if need be

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But yeah, onion / i2p blockchain sync just something we havent thought deeply enough about

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> I know, but it would be better to stay within Tor network and not need to use Exit nodes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> There can be a lot of issues if not implemented properly

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> You can fix the syncing issues if you manually fill your peers file with onion addresses of other nodes.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You cant sync from onion peers

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And you havent had to add peers since the last hard fork

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Onion peers are for tx-relay only

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> OK, makes sense.

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> I would like to run the node fully within Tor and not have clearnet peers. Ibrun a bitcoin node the same way

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What bitcoin node do you run?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Pruned? Archival? Listeneing? (I dont even know the terms)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Asking because, monero nodes are all effectively "full nodes"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They dont rely on another tier of nodes in order to operate

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not a big issue to have non-archival nodes be sybilled

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And i imagine the 10k "full" nodes on bitcoin are mostly available on clearnet in addition to i2p and tor.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I also see onion/i2p as being a potential benefit for monero p2p, as it allows incoming blocks from people who are stuck behind a nat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not a big issue to have non-archival nodes be sybilled (on btc)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> as it allows Incoming connections for blockchain sync*

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> I run a bitcoin full node (not pruned) - behind NAT. Using Tor saves me the hassle of port forwarding etc. and my ISP doesn't know that I run a node

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Clearnet fully disabled?

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> Yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So the only nodes that can reach you, are other onion nodes?

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> Yes afain

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^ thats the problem

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> Not really. There are enough of them

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not the most difficult thing in the world to sybil the node and cut it off from the real network

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "enough" = enough that also have clearnet **enabled**

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So they can bridge onion traffic to clearnet and i2p

<j​ohngalt:sibnsk.net> I guess some of them run that way. But you're right, there is a sybil potential that is probably bigger than on clearnet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> When you submit a tx or block, it geta relayed to peers. It has to eventually make it to _all_ peers

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think some logic rules can enable this in monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just needs to be done _right_, otherwise we'll probably get attacked

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Right like.. perhaps

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> - nodes without clearnet can only receive blocks and relay tx.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> - clearnet w/o incoming, can receive blocks from onion or clear, but can only broadcast blocks from clear to onion or clear to clear. can relay tx in any direction.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> - nodes with clearnet incoming+out can relay blocks from clear to onion and vice versa + relay tx any direction.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> s|onion|onion/i2p

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> s|onion/i2p|anon network

<9​_11_01> is kapsa better than xmr apart from privacy?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> no

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Trust me bro

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Kaspa is just a faster BTC, LTC is still better.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Did somebody say "xmr" ?

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> No ;) I was referring to non-privacy PoW chains

<k​owalabearhugs-:matrix.org> I don't think monerod.org is a centralized p2pool affiliate. They're finding their own blocks independent of p2pool, monerod.org/pool/blocks

<k​owalabearhugs-:matrix.org> minerno.de is another centralized p2pool

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I could be wrong 👌

<9​_11_01> how is ltc better

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Scrypt, its battle tested, and price (plus gas) does not swing wildly when Bitmain sells their bags.

<m​onero7777:matrix.org> When the Monero's Blockchain will be more 250GiB size? (approximately).

<9​_11_01> but doesnt kaspa have a better techonolgy

Hi did thankful_for_today post anywhere else other than in Bitcointalk?

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Perhaps, I haven't read too much into it. I personally prefer LTC for their original ethos of being the silver to BTC's gold. Kaspa is definitely more modernized tech wise, but the dominance by ASIC manufacturers puts a bad taste in my mouth.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Late 2024

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 5 yrs if pruned

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> guesstimates

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <9_11_01> but doesnt kaspa have a better techonolgy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> very vague

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Some things can be indisputably better/worse. "kaspa has better tech". Which part of it is better?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> My honda might have a better radio than your tesla

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and by honda, i mean kaspa

I've been listening to the Monero Monitor podcast by bigreddmachine and it's probably one of the most entertaining podcasts I've ever heard from the crypto community. Too bad the series ended after only 12 or so episodes. I wonder what he's doing today?

Dear GOD/GODS and/or anyone else who can HELP ME (e.g. TIME TRAVELERS or MEMBERS OF SUPER-INTELLIGENT ALIEN CIVILIZATIONS): The next time I wake up, please change my physical form to that of FINN MCMILLAN formerly of SOUTH NEW BRIGHTON at 8 YEARS OLD and keep it that way FOREVER. I am so sick of this chubby Asian man body! Thank you! - CHAUL JHIN

KIM (a.k.a. A DESPERATE SOUL)

<9​_11_01> but cant ltc have asic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You want to be an 8 year old?

chaul has left the channel after tossing a coin into the Monero wishing fountain

<e​ricm300:tchncs.de> @ofrnxmr:monero.social: Hey buddy you helped me earlier about localmonero, I see that the green prices go up in ascending order. If the price of one monero is $174 USD, how come those green prices go up from that?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> people choose what the price want to sell for

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Each person decides on their own. One person might want 174, another 194

<e​ricm300:tchncs.de> So they can artificially inflate the price of monero?

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Yes. Its how order books work too. People choose what price they wish to buy or sell at.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Artificially?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> its called supply and demand

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Scrypt algo has ASICs running on it, but Kaspa's smaller market cap means that when Bitmain and others mine Kaspa then dump it all at once before selling the miners, the price swings wildly.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its organic, not synthetic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why would i sell for what binance SAYS the price is? That is artificial

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Its still manipulated by people, not nature. Hence artificial, but yes it is more organic than fake.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I sell for what i think its worth

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not for what im told

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> Its semantics anyway.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not semantics

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> its cold hard reality

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if nobody trades on a cex, where does the price come from?

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> I'm referring to the term artificial in this context and how we both used it.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> from paper trading.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Paper trading fake xmr is artificially suppressing price

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Supple and demand of a hard supply is not artificial

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 174$ is too low, period.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Buyers vs sellers = price

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> More buyers than sellers = price appreciation

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> There is nothing artificial about that

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Being able to buy xmr OTC on localmonero Means that i have to raise mt prices on you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if sell you 10k at 174, im not selling 500k more at that price

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The lower my/sellers liquidity, the higher the orice

<e​ricm300:tchncs.de> Okay. But if one monero is realistically worth $174 USD then I want to choose a seller close to that price. I understand charging a little extra for the service of the trade but no more.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ita not realistically worth 174

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> More like 400 on the low end

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> As a buyer, you'd want to choose a cheaper price. As a seller, a higher price.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 174 is a suppressed steal

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> as a buyer, i buy at 5% above rate

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> As a seller, i sell 20% above

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you dont like it, go to binance

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im happy to not sell

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and happy to pay you 5% to go to binance and empty (short squeeze) their fake reserves

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I buy high, sell higher.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If i sell.

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> If you wish to inflate the price yourself, yes you could do 5% above ask. But as a utility coin, mooning is not the goal.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I offer more than binance

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you tell me - what is the price of monero? If i offer 180?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Is it, 174? As binance says?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or is it 180? As i say?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Answer = liquidity

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its 180 until i run out.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I am the highest bidder.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nothing artificial about real orders.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Other localmonero sellers have more liquidit and buy at 5-10% BELOW rate

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if nobody trades on a cex, where does the price come from? <<>> from the people who used to trade on a cex

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then they sell it to me.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> s/sellers/buyers

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Paper trading fake xmr is artificially suppressing price <<>> then I imagine this is done for every coin that it is worth doing so, I also imagine that it would be more peofitable with other coins

<e​ricm300:tchncs.de> At this point in my life I don't care about these aspects of crypto, all I want is to be able to utilitize monero as a payment method for vendors only accepting monero. However, I appreciate your lesson.

<e​ricm300:tchncs.de> And thanks for your help

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> That's why Monero is a special stable coin. Generally people don't want the price to inflate because they like it for utility.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats fud

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just an excuse for when ppl make fun of us for never NGu

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The fact is > we will ngu, and people need to stop respecting binance fake prices

no, that is zec :D

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> We get it, you want Monero to moon and I don't.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I didnt save convo or remember who i was talking to, but next monerun were doing it ofrnxmr's way

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You dont make sense

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It HAS to appreciate in price for it to he adopted

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats literally just math

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You cant increase the market cap without increasing the price

Monero has to be valued higher for it to be more usefu;

<e​ricm300:tchncs.de> I thought the appeal of monero is anonymous transactions

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yeah, and you cant do a tx worth 1million

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Because you need too many xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Unlike btc, xmr can handle the increased volume and price

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> I wish for greater interoperability as we are still in a fiat dominant world. When people use monero to buy XYZ, they would appreciate the stable aspect to pay their taxes and other BS when they off-ramp.

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> I don't want Monero to stay suppressed, but the value in utility is greater than the value in price.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just the amount of xmr per person decreases, not the value

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 18m xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you give that to 180m people, thats 17$ each and only 0.1xmr per person

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Aka xmr needs to be 1700$ before 180m people can have a fair share

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I agree with utility

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And the ability to absorb millions of people, is part of that

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> The reason why stable coins exist is because people would like a baseline to refer to. That baseline is useful to keep pricing constant relative to the dominant currency. 1XMR will always equal 1XMR as it should, but as long as we are still in fiat hell, a stable price is nice.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> nah

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Stablecoins exist because its easy to scam naive people

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> that it semantics

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The baseline is xmr.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Stablecoins is like saying the baseline is fluid

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Stablecoins dont have anything stable about them. Aside from being CHOSEN by humans to be the very unstable "peg"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They are backed by everything from treasury bonds, stocks, crypto

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But backes 1:1 by dollars? No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Are dollars backed by anything? No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Stablecoins are counterfeit money

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> In order to achieve a thriving circular economy, Monero's USD price is irrelevant. If I could pay my utilities completely with XMR, I would close my bank accounts. Yet as we are not able to do that yet, the fiat baseline is a nice-to-have.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats why xmr appreciates.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you, as a merchant, price your goods in xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and customers start using xmr, you eventuallt _drop_ your prices

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> As the value of xmr increases

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> volatility during adoption should be a win win.

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> this. usage of XMR makes its purchasing power increase.

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> So, merchants and users both benefit if they start using XMR>

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> With btc - merchants suffer the consequences of being naive

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Btc price going up is a terrible thing for users

<c​rypero:gnulinux.club> I'm 100% with you on that. I would not care about the price as long as adoption grows.

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