!seen P3rl

what is  the difference between a  non-coinbase transactions and  a  coinbase transactions

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> coinbase transactions introduce new XMR coins into liquidity. These coin amoins are not encrypted confidential transactions.

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> Non-coinbase transactions do not introduce new XMR coins into circulation. And their amounts are encrypted with confidential transactions.

thank you

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> your welcome

mining create only coinbase transaction ok?

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> yes, mining XMR creates only coinbase transactions.

<k​arano:poddery.com> But only mining in p2pool creates coinbase transactions for all miners i guess

how accurate is this article

sounds like they followed the BTC and found XMR along the way, not breaking actual XMR privacy features

it seems that at best there was some EAE or EABE probabalistic linking?

Did you ever see a fully accurate article about cryptocurrencies these days? :)

<k​arano:poddery.com> this was covered in Monero talks last week episode , you can watch there

why is monero inflationary?

because you cant do math

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> What’s the math

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> 1 + 1 = 🪟

you tell me. whats the xmr inflation rate?

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Greater than zero

1%

how did you arrive at that number? show your work

<h​bs:matrix.org> ~0.86%

snex: what u mean?

why getting personal?

I just ask why monero has to be inflationary?

because anyone who thinks it is inflationary cant do math...

your premise is wrong

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> So miners can keep the chain secure

its commong knowledge that monero extend the money volume constantly

common

ok now do the math and tell me the inflation rate

so the question is why it does not follow bitcoin premis with a constant money volumne?

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Huh ?

the monero money volumne is not limited

so its inflationary

what is confusing to you? if xmr is inflationary then it must have an inflation rate. so tell me what that rate is and how you arrived at that number

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> It’s infinite in infinite time

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> with increasing supply the inflation rate decreases

rsch is the perfect reviewer of the ccs funded video

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> It’s because it’s cash, not a rare metal.

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> and it's expected that some coins get lost in the void so it's probably more deflationary

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Asteroid mining?

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Money Supply =/= Inflation

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> While typically increases in money supply tend to cause inflation that is not always the case.

yewtu.be/watch?v=sRwSqM0YBto rsch please watch and share your thoughts

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> *Money supply increase

yes, a money supply increase is inflation

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> It is always the case.

inflation causes prices to go up. prices going up is not inflation

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Correlation does not mean causation

huh? inflation is BY DEFINITION increasing the money supply

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Inflation is the rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, leading to a decrease in purchasing power. It is typically measured as an annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI) or Producer Price Index (PPI). Inflation erodes the real value of money over time.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> If the amount of goods, & see increase at a similar rate of the money supply inflation probably would not happen.

quoting wikipedia is not an argument

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> *service increase

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> And putting wrong definition isn’t good

just because the government has tried to change the definition to distract you from knowing its cause doesnt mean you should accept that

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Money supply != inflation

inflation has always meant increase to the money supply. anything else is propaganda

well you could have lead with that reasoning first

by the way if we want to go by your incorrect propagandistic definition of "inflation" then where on earth did you get the idea that monero is inflationary?

how did you measure that?

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/OKegMDLefqocOCJvFWqVKtYc

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> In this case it does. There is no other cause.

Rucknium is monero inflationary?

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> The increase in the price of goods, & services can also be caused by supply decreases, or demand increases.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Only slightly inflationary, which is a good thing because many coins are lost every year.

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Yes, monerod supply is inflating forever

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Does the current rate of inflation hurt monero ? No

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Yes, monero supply is inflating forever

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Does the current rate of inflation hurt monero ? No

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> bs

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> That is increase in price, not inflation.

"people that run a website agree with my beliefs in propaganda" is not an argument

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Tin foil hat 2020 economic students here

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Investopedia is hardly propaganda 😑

yeah ok

its just a website

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> For capitalism maybe

run by humans

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> No point arguing with kids

are you just unable to think for yourself or what?

gotta go ask somebody else who runs a website what they think?

i run a website too

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> There is no "second" cause for inflation. It is always, 100% of the time, no exception, always money supply. Period.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Increase in price is not inflation, it's normal market movement.

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Yah with your own ideas on it 😂

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Now go back to the cave you came out from

the definition of inflation is not unique to me. it has been the economic definition for centuries

only in the last few decades has the government tried to change it

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Now go and read those books

and people like you just follow along like the sheep that you are

i have. you havent

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Yah you read your kindergarten book I guess

make a real argument

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> No need to offend guys, it's just a scientific fact that believing government narrative is physiological retardation.

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> You don’t argue with stupid’s

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Tin foil hats

ok then leave

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> You publicly shame them

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> That’s it

the fuck do you care about monero for at all?

go collect your fiat bux

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Do you even understand monero ?

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I graduated top of my class at the Rothbard, Marx, Friedman, and Keynesian school of economics 😎.

i do. you dont

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> lol retard

what is the argument again? Monero is , or isn't inflationary? or that the word inflationary has different meaning? is it really cause for getting angry over?

plowsof: both i guess? im still waiting for anyone who claims its inflationary to tell me the rate at which it allegedly inflates

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> slightly inflationary

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> snex: it's negligible compared to fiat, gold, even bitcoin

well eventually bitcoins will stop being created, but thats beyond our lifetimes

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> it's less inflationary than bitcoin

the long term inflation rate of monero is 0

trending toward 0?

no, the rate of new moneros entering the economy

well it has to be slightly above 0

yeah, it asymptotes to 0

yeah

every year it will be guaranteed to be less than the prior year

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Monero's inflation rate is 1%

the tail emission become a smaller and smaller % of the total supply over time

the current yearly rate is not important

a year is an arbitrary time period

isnt everyone putting the same point forward (just with different time periods?)

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Reddit says the following:

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> >Once the total number of moneroj will reach 18.3 million then money supply will stop decreasing and stay at a >constant rate of 0.3 Monero per minute.

yes, we have already reached that

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> >This is meant to provide incentive to secure the blockchain even after the 18.3 million coins will be distributed.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> >Note that it's a constant amount so it will be about 1% the first year and it will reduce every year but never reach 0.

if what you care about is the effect on prices then you need to use the long term rate as determined by an NPV calc. and that number can only be 0

<r​ucknium:monero.social> p​lowsof: In mainstream macroeconomics, "inflation" means a general increase in the price level of goods and services in an economy. I read recently that the mainstream definition did change over time. IIRC, before 1900 usually inflation meant increase in the supply of money. Then there was a 50-year transition. By 1950, in the mainstream it meant the general increase in the price level.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Around 30% of all BTC has been lost forever. 1% is negligible all the way around for any currency.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> If you are having a discussion and there is disagreement about the meaning of a term, maybe use the term(s) that are more precise :)

thanks rucknium (this is why i dont think for myself snex, smart enough to know im too dumb to do that)

"general increase in the price level of goods and services" is about as imprecise as it gets

<r​ucknium:monero.social> AFAIK, there is no disagreement about what an increase in the money supply means nor what a general increase in the price level of goods and services in an economy means.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Everything that came after the war is propaganda. Let's go back to truth.

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Increase in price of pills you take, would that help ?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I think we are getting into #monero-offtopic:monero.social or #monero-beef:monero.social discussion topics.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Monero’s purchasing power hasn’t decreased in any substantial way due to its supply increase.

if ribeye gets too expensive and i switch to ground beef, the people whose job it is to "measure inflation" will somehow tell you that no inflation has happened

if otc medication prices are too high people may seek alternatives (e.g. purchasing on the black market)

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Around 30% of all BTC has been lost forever. 1%/year is negligible all the way around for any currency.

endor00 has shown that BTC has other things to worry about

if the most common TV size used to be 40" but its now 50", and prices went from 100 to 120, the government will insist that TV prices have gone down

by 5%

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Inflation is when better products, & services cost more.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Truly groundbreaking work.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I too run a website.

my website is banmonero.com tho. so clearly we should ban monero

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Monero inflation is 0.69420%

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/qgdOMMzWdzSzsUFVVXlxkvii

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/ZdpIMWrAsRoAjlRiTBgAgERs

bro is so lagged

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/gzeOfIsAtNrkeBdSaErjmdZF

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Merriam Webster Definition:

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflation

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Britannica:

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> britannica.com/money/inflation-economics

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Econlib:

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> econlib.org/library/Topics/HighSchool/Inflation.html

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> The only Website that I’m aware of that defines inflation as increase in the Money Supply is Mises, which is part of The Austrian school of thought, which I agree with on a lot of things in principle.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> But to make a cohesive argument we need to first define our terms, and what we mean.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Why we’re arguing, it is generally a consensus in The Monero Community as far as I know that Monero isn’t inflationary, as in no unexpected occurrences of supply growth occur.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Monero’s supply does grow, that is true but Monero’s purchasing power has stayed consistent over a period of time.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> In my earnest opinion Monero is deflationary at least when compared to The United States dollar which experiences drastically more Inflation.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Now, it could be different when comparing to stable currency like the Swiss Franc which typically doesn’t engage in excessive stimulus policy like The United States, so Monero may be inflationary when compared to Swiss Francs but I cannot personally say as I am not in Switzerland.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> For now I’m done debating this topic since I’m going to go touch grass.

so the supply of swiis francs grows slower than monero?

who asked about the inflation rate? p2pool.io/tail.html

I look forward to the time when there is only 1 btc left cause people die without letting others have access to their btc and others that simply lose it

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I’d have to research the matter more in depth but as far as I’ve seen the Franc tends to appreciate in value against The Dollar.

yes but you were comparing it to montero

prices are very expensive in switzerland

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Inflation is not bad per se, as I said before coins are lost, so its impact is negligible.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Inflation only becomes a problem when it's too high and unfair (one entity controls the supply and takes advantage of newly created currency, as the Fed does, not the case with Monero).

the past 12m inflation rate is less important than what the next 12m rate will be

and with monero we know with basically 100% certainty

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I was saying that Monero might be inflationary to someone that lives in Switzerland but I cannot attest to that as I am an American, I am not Swiss, so I’m uncertain of Monero’s Market in Switzerland.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> More adoption means deflation... it's in balance.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Purchasing power is what you're talking about and that's a whole different topic. Has more to do with number of users, and what value they have to offer to the market, etc. Many possible scenarios, independent of if there's inflation or not.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> That’s a fair point, I didn’t use the optimal terminology to convey what I meant.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> What you we should we be worrying about is adoption, real life use cases.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Agreed

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> What we should we be worrying about is adoption, real life use cases.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Which is why I’m building my website:

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> acceptcrypto.org

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I’m 110% about adoption.

jordan_sanchez: i wrote a monero payment gateway for online merchants

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> nice

you can add it to your site - github.com/snex/xpg

monero only

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> Nice, I will list it on the monero page.

i have other repos up there you might also enjoy, have a look around

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> If they’re crypto related I usually list them.

<j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> I’ll take a gander at the other stuff.

<a​remor:matrix.org> No KYC on ramps with fiat.

<a​remor:matrix.org> People need to push Haveno harder.

is haveno actually up yet?

bisq has monero support and is already up and running

<a​remor:matrix.org> How can it be up without people pushing it?

why would anybody push it if the devs arent working on it?

<a​remor:matrix.org> This requires buying ₿ and that can be undesired.

yes but you can get btc without kyc

<a​remor:matrix.org> Because it’s needed.

if its needed then why arent the devs working on it

<a​remor:matrix.org> Buying ₿ on bisq requires having some ₿ already. So where did that ₿ come from?

they run a matrix chat where people can do onboard-level p2p trades for fiat

<a​remor:matrix.org> They’re working slowly and need testers = push

<a​remor:matrix.org> Also requires interacting with a transparent chain

yes but its actually running

the longer you have no working product, the less likely you are to succeed if and when you finally do

<a​remor:matrix.org> Actually running in a KYC manner

<a​remor:matrix.org> = not running well

no, theres no kyc lol

transparent chain != kyc

<a​remor:matrix.org> Tell LE and CA this

dont need to

if you want me to do test and dev work for your project, pay me

otherwise ill use whats already running

oh that reminds me. why dont monero projects switch from a donation begging funding model to a lottery model?

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> That’s insulting, why are you even here ?

insulting to suggest we use something that actually works?

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> What lottery ?

you hold one

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Troll

lotteries are a far more effective means of raising funds than begging for donations

<a​remor:matrix.org> Have fun with that. Might as well stay on fiat then. Then you have no motivation for the movement. So why even be here? No, you’re not needed. Please Allow others to develop in peace.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Jinx

nobody is going to switch to freedom oriented things out of charity. people do what benefits them

you are offering no benefits

commie idealism will always fail

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Yes we will. Charity to ourselves.

ok what benefit does haveno offer me that bisq doesnt?

you dont even have an MVP

and its been 2 years since ive heard of the project

thats quite frankly unacceptable

at this point youre just scamming people out of donations

the news section hasnt even been updated since ErCommie left

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> your discourse amounts to shitcoin numbergoup mentality

uh huh

but im not the one shilling vaporware

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> well, good for you

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> let's be constructive

i was. i suggested raising funds via lotteries instead of the current ineffective donation begging. then you can use those funds to pay devs and testers

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> to be honest, I don't see why not, you could start it any time you want

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> I will ask for funds when it's running

i could, if i had a project i needed funding. but i dont and if i go to the trouble of running a lottery im gonna keep the proceeds for myself

<m​obley:converser.eu> Hi

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That was not nice 🤣