<c​haser:monero.social> selsta: thank you. I tried that (github.com/monero-project/monero#using-tor) with your correction (`proxy=127.0.0.1:9050` instead of `TORSOCKS_ALLOW_INBOUND=1`). for the first 5-10 minutes, `monerod sync_info` reported only clearnet connections, then it switched over to Tor nodes. any guesses why?

do you also have tx-proxy in addition to proxy?

<c​haser:monero.social> yes, I do

`--proxy` does not support .onion peers, so Tor exit nodes will be used

`--tx-proxy` does support .onion peers so that's what showed up after 10 minutes or so

so what you are describing sounds correct

<c​haser:monero.social> "`--proxy` does not support .onion peers", that is not intuitive and very good to know, thanks. why is that? and what accounts for the delayed kick-in of `--tx-proxy`? after the 10 minutes, monerod had mostly .onion peers, and occasionally one clearnet peer.

<c​haser:monero.social> *I mean a peer with an IPv4 address (doesn't necessarily mean clearnet).

hmm, it should show 12 clearnet peers if you have default 12 out peer setting

and onion peers in addition to that

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Actually, I think I got that to work on the OS I built from OpenBSD back in 2019. I honestly can't remember though now.

Tor is currently getting attacked, so everything works slower than it should metrics.torproject.org/torperf.html…24-05-16&server=public&filesize=5mb

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Slower then 56k modem?

<c​haser:monero.social> selsta: I have `out-peers=20` and `in-peers=20`

what does it say when you do ./monerod status ?

<c​haser:monero.social> it says `6(out)+0(in) connections`. and, regardless of these peers, my sync is stuck. I've already tried popping blocks. but at least this time monerod is aware of the correct chain tip.

what height are you on?

like I wrote in my previous comment, Tor is currently getting attacked which means syncing will be extremely slow

you might have to set `--block-sync-size 1`

with the default block-sync-size it will take multiple minutes to download the requested blocks, causing timeouts

<c​haser:monero.social> I won't post my actual height here, but I'm hundreds of blocks behind the known tip. thanks for the suggestion, I'll try `--block-sync-size 1`.

<c​haser:monero.social> my log is full of `Host _._._._ blocked.` messages

yep should be solved with the lower block-sync-size

c​haser:monero.social this I have, too. The majority of the nodes are blocked...

<c​haser:monero.social> selsta: `--block-sync-size 1` solved it. amazing! it works even with `3`. thank you very much. it was indeed the timeouts.

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> 📰Missed Monerotopia Episode (#166)? Check out the Price, NEWS, GUEST Segment I & II

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Reports here! ⤵️

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Price Report:

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Youtube: youtu.be/WpG1lXAx23Q

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> ODYSEE: odysee.com/@MoneroTalk:8/markets-drifting-higher-05-18-24-%28price:d

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> News Segment:

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Youtube: youtu.be/-p8MHWuP15Q

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org>

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> ODYSEE: odysee.com/@MoneroTalk:8/bitcoin-designed-to-harm-privacy-05-18:c

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> GUEST Segment I & II :

<k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Youtube:

<c​haser:monero.social> v​thor: I suggest you too try `--block-sync-size 1`. I'm getting very good results, no peers blocked so far.

chaser, yes I read, thank you, I gave on one point up to sync over thor, but will run again a test. Have a great one!

<c​haser:monero.social> you too and good luck!

<c​owboy_coffee:matrix.org> What causes the sudden spike in stability issues for nodes running over Tor?

<k​arano:poddery.com> ask Tor ,

<k​arano:poddery.com> it has spam issues sometimes

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Why would anyone want to attack Tor anyway? Just governments being shitty? I mean what is it going to actually accomplish is I guess what I am asking?

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Even if it was governments, why? They use it too, sooo 🤔🤷‍♂️

<k​arano:poddery.com> it happens periodically, not sure the exact reason but monero doesn't rely solely on tor

<k​arano:poddery.com> either using a vpn or running your own nodes solves the issue of tracing the originator of transaction.

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Well aware

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Yes, I know

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> I was asking a slightly offtopic question. Forgive me lol

<k​arano:poddery.com> yeah , tor project forum ,would be better place to get that answered

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Right on 👍

<p​cre:monero.social> xmrstreet.store

<p​cre:monero.social> Why did no one tell me?

<k​arano:poddery.com> you can also diy this using a spare smartphone and using Anonero and Nero

<k​arano:poddery.com> or even Nero and feather wallet

<k​arano:poddery.com> > <@pcre:monero.social> Why did no one tell me?

<k​arano:poddery.com> you can also diy this at your home using a spare smartphone and using Anonero and Nero

<p​cre:monero.social> No idea.

<k​arano:poddery.com> anonero.io

<p​cre:monero.social> ok

<k​arano:poddery.com> monero.town/post/223593

<p​cre:monero.social> Is it air gabbed?

<k​arano:poddery.com> yes

<p​cre:monero.social> perfect

<k​arano:poddery.com> you can remove any internet connections from the device

<k​arano:poddery.com> but anonero is going a rewrite right now , so it may take time to see another version

<o​rban.1:matrix.org> Presumably it has a secure element for generating keys?

<k​arano:poddery.com> that monerosigner device ? idk

<p​cre:monero.social> I only know the seedsigner for Bitcoin - you can use a dice to generate the entropy needed.

<p​cre:monero.social> Or take a picture and use the image as some kind of entropy. (i dont like that too much)

<o​rban.1:matrix.org> when did sideshit stop swapping xmr?

orban: long long time ago, if I remember right ~2 years

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Long ago

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> What is the repo that contains the firmware that we need to put on the zero?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i think their backend is just thorchain now

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I does not. It is a pi zero

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> You mean the firmware?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Monero seed signer?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> sideshift

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Soon™️

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Oh. Ok. Got confused for a sec lmao

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the monero seedsigner doesnt have any firmware last time i checked

<o​rban.1:matrix.org> whats the best alternative now?

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Trezor.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> trezor safe 3 or anonero

<k​arano:poddery.com> how do i know. I talked about Nero

<k​arano:poddery.com> trezor prices gone up i guess

<k​arano:poddery.com> difficult to actually get it here

<k​arano:poddery.com> diy are best

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I mean the image that we need to put on it to work.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah, doesnt exist yet

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Wasnt the proposal made like ~2 yrs ago?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> unless i've missed something, the development never really made any progress

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> ima_7d41456.png

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Then why do these exist tho?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Ccs moment

tfw

<c​t:xmr.mx> 0 ccs milestones collected so far

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Maybe still investigating the hack

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol

scope creep - polyseed in python, and no dates on blog entries. "My freelance rate is $250. For this project I am quoting at $120/hr us." so we got a huge discount on labour fees!

". I am forking the codebase and removing the bitcoin compnents and replacing them with Monero/Privacy specific features."

do you think the proposer is going to maintain this fork? or would we be better off trying to merge monero support upstream

are the parts cheaper than a safe3? can they arrive on your doorstep in a timely manner? is there self assembly required? how is firmware installed?

now let me re-write history and tell you all i was vehemently against the proposal (check the comments and see i supported it. but sceptical of the parts prices/performance, live and learn)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Hmm drunk irc

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> money

<p​cre:monero.social> I think it will be difficult with Monero and air-gapped wallets. Because of the ring signature, you have to communicate in both directions. However, I could imagine a key management system that allows me to manage several seeds that I can never spend until I transfer one spendkey to transfer stuff. Like a Tanlist. You divide your total balance into 0.5 or 0.X monero chunks. You t<clipped message>

<p​cre:monero.social> hen transfer the viewkey or spendkey with an led so that you can only communicate in one direction. Afte transfer the address is burned on the device.

<p​cre:monero.social> But probably too complicated.

<c​t:xmr.mx> you are thinking to complicated:

<c​t:xmr.mx> - wallet prepares tx, generates qr code

<c​t:xmr.mx> - signer scans code, signs it, generates new qr code

<c​t:xmr.mx> - wallet scans code, then sends out signed tx

<p​cre:monero.social> This is how it works with the Bitcoin seedsigner, but it might be different for Monero, because several parties have to sign the transaction.

<p​cre:monero.social> * wallet scans code then creates another QR-code.

<p​cre:monero.social> As far as I know, this must also work in real time.

<p​cre:monero.social> Should have something to do with the change. But I have little idea myself. I've only heard that once.

<p​cre:monero.social> Nothing to do with it now, but you might even use the ESP32 chip on the seed signer to draw the QR-Codes by controling a couple of servos. Since you can no longer trust a modern printer. youtube.com/watch?v=jiwWCrCfXrY

<p​cre:monero.social> It's an arm chip. sorry

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> preland: Gm what is status of cashapp/paypal?

<c​t:xmr.mx> Seedsigner will still required monero arm binaries for some functions, therefore its not straight forward to port to an arm cortex M series

<c​t:xmr.mx> Seedsigner will still require monero arm binaries for some functions, therefore its not straight forward to port to an arm cortex M series

<p​reland:matrix.org> Gm; I have the backend stuff for it (probably) done (CashApp was already present in the files; just deprecated. I am also going to add Venmo as an option cuz it was also deprecated and why not)

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> :o venmo </3

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> mf stole 2k from me

<p​reland:matrix.org> I still need to add the payment forms in the UI, but once that is dealt with it’ll be as functional as any other payment method

<p​reland:matrix.org> Then it just comes down to whether or not it’ll even be allowed to be added/what we need to add in terms of disclaimer….

<p​reland:matrix.org> Rip

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> on haveno?

<p​cre:monero.social> ok. So that is the only problem then?

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> no venmo

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> thank you

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> serves you right for using that thing! /s

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> yeah but 25% lol

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> what i that even

<c​t:xmr.mx> overall it is an ambitious project. You can't use normal qr code even, as you need to fit more information, so he developed a dynamic qr code that gets updated at 10 or 15fps

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and how is someone who uses monero also using apple things

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> baffling

<p​cre:monero.social> fair enough.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> oh seed/passphrase storage

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ooo offline monero wallet

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> How? Easy: someone who uses monero can also prefer simplicity.

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I dont question you on your device choices. Please dont do me on mine…

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> that's my point

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> oh

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> you mean like surface level simplicity

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ...

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ugh that hurts to read

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I dont so my private stuff on my phone. So nothing to worry about tho

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> im more android but have ipad just to accept apple pay

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> you are free to and i am happy for anything relevant: github.com/kreyren/nixos-config

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> I had graphene os shane so stop hating

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it's all open-source including the firmware and my personal device is OSHW

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and even the system config is open-source

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> get the same device and run the same setup as me

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> That was not the point tho. But okay

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> bit-by-bit reproducible minus the secrets

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> that was my point

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> apple devices are notorious for being terrible for privacy and security

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like the ffucking thing leaks iclouds atm

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> but w/e

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> i should really get into a business of making devices that look like apple and are linux phones

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> you get 4 camera lenses and 1 camera

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> youtube.com/watch?v=Fg9r5DvsJLg

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> livemint.com/technology/tech-news/a…-we-know-so-far-11716022567904.html

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> src^ and you know apple the responsible privacy and security company is trying to cover it up that they have a copy of all the things on your iphone and don't remove them even if you remove them

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well imma go now, enjoy any meltdowns i might have caused to the paranoid people here~

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I hope you understand that i do not fo anything privacy needy on my iphone.

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> 🙃

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well imma go now, enjoy any meltdowns i might have caused to the paranoid people and apple users here~

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Linux phones are terrible security wise, so really this is a pick your poison

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I see you dont know how a system works

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> And data recovery.

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> You know why it didnt happen to all the people?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> cursed

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> I have Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini Value Edition that runs mainline hardened kernel and Full Disk Encryption on an open-source 2nd bootloader

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> .. works great

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Because it was not central. When you delete a file, it is only deleted for your eyes. But until there is data written over that sector, it is recoverable

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Thats how data recovery works

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> migrating on Samsung Galaxy A5 or Samsung Galaxy GRAND MAX! soon as well

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and iphones runs linux too if that's a thing you like

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> projectsandcastle.org

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Its not the device. Its the os.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> the problem is that those removed things are shown at random to other icloud users

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> No icloud

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> And not to others

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so working theory is if you've made a lewd pics on your iphone and removed them.. there is an increased risk of that showing up at someone's iphone now ^-^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Ah yes, a phone released in 2012 with at least 90 hardware vulnerabilites. And I'm sure the underlying OS is well signed with strict SELinux policies

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> IF the used phone was SOLD, it might appear in their OWN filesystem

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> No

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> You can just pay me $5 ill send them to you

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it's the vulnerabilities that make it work and that project sandcastle patches in a way that lets you have a full root access and non-fascist bootloader

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> that ain't what i read about it and was testing

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> though i wasn't able to reproduce it bcs ughh icloud accounts

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> wa

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> /s

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Bro you are shitting on iPhone while you literally advocates old and vulnerable hardwares, that can be exploited to gain full root access on the OS. Please just learn about security a little more, I would have throw that phone at the river already

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> You just go the full privacy road, while destroying your security entirely

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> there are patches to those security holes and again these security holes are what enables linux on the devices smh

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Think what you think..

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and you can patch these in a way where none would be able to access the root filesystem if they gain a physical access to the device

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Well, I hope they patched what can be patched correctly because you sit on top of a cheese right now. And don't forget about blob firmware and full-hardware vulnerabilities these are none patchable, at all

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well gotta go now~

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> I am sure you can patch hardware security, right? You have a 10nm robot at home to recreate the transistors on the cpu. I am sure

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Stack Wallet improved a lot from last time I used it. Really on par with Cake

<5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and iphones runs linux too if that's a thing you like <- The hardware would still suck though.

TBH don't think I would be buying another smartphone once this stops working.

<p​reland:matrix.org> At least the hardware is common enough that you can expect those with good intentions to find issues.

<p​reland:matrix.org> Apple’s “walled garden” approach does nothing but disincentivize ethical hacking and bug reporting.

<p​reland:matrix.org> Do you think Pegasus could’ve happened on Android? Perhaps. But it’s much more likely that one of the 4 zero-days would’ve been discovered by an independent security team and issued a patch before the full attack chain could be discovered and exploited.

<p​reland:matrix.org> Also keep in mind that Apple’s security constantly gets upended. I would know, as I’ve closely tracked jailbreak progress on modern devices. The sheer number of regressions, memory unsafety, and undocumented/deprecated software is absurd.

<p​reland:matrix.org> Android is broken by state actors. iOS is broken by 14 year olds who use Apple notes as their IDE. Pick your OS wisely

<p​reland:matrix.org> (Disclaimer: I run a hardened jailbroken iOS)

<p​reland:matrix.org> (If you think I’m joking abt the apple notes thing, go check out Theos. These kids are going places, I tell you)

Is Pegasus iPhone-only though?

I am 100% sure that malware like this exists on Android as well.

Anything can be hacked like that. Apple just allows much less chances to shield yourself from company's control.

Revuo Monero Issue 196: May 16 - 23, 2024. revuo-xmr.com/issue-196.html

BlueyHealer: Pegasus exists for both Android and iOS

iOS has lockdown mode which enables similar security features as something like GrapheneOS

though likely Pegasus would still work in both cases

I bet even in Lockdown mode it sends telemetry to Apple... I wish I could check, it would've been so in-character)

I think lockdown mode isn't related to telemetry

Yea, it just decreases attack surface.

<p​cre:monero.social> When will they shutdown the getmonero.org domain and ssl crtificate for hate speech?

<p​cre:monero.social> Ok, I have added --notify-at UNLOCKED

<p​cre:monero.social> github.com/d4ndox/mnp

<p​cre:monero.social> Not commited yet

<p​cre:monero.social> and not tested

<p​cre:monero.social> Next will be a very simple transfer command. I do recommend to run it with a view wallet only, but you never know. Someone might need a transfer command on bash.

<p​cre:monero.social> For the non-tech guys here. bash is the thing that still works when the shit hits the fan. Your browser thing wont work when claus schwab is not amused.

<p​cre:monero.social> Stay on your toes. Don't be lazy. Install Linux. ... etc

<p​cre:monero.social> ok sorry - i'm offline. To much red wine. cu tomorrow.

Hello, this morning I did not gracefully shutdown at all. Now I am trying to run monerod and getting "bus error ./monerod".

I could not find any arguments/flags that attempts to repair it instead, to no avail.

I just don't have anything that sensitive on a smartphone in general since it cannot run Lineage/Divest/Graphene.

Running "./monerod --db-salvage" didn't work either, returning: "bus error ./monerod --db-salvage".

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Is anyone reading meta or is what i wrote stupid and not worth replying to? monero-project/meta #1010

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> kinda seemed like a good idea to me highlighting what i think are the issues there

I did read it but the issue is a bit too broad and unrealistic in my opinion

we can't just "decouple" from bitcoin, it is the main cryptocurrency and most trades are against BTC and not fiat

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> You want what? Monero atms?

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> Your project doesn't make sense.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it's not a project rather an organizational proposal

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Like spectre or WEF ?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> also there is the issue of govs trying to ban XMR on exchanges, but it seems realistic to me

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> More support for them basically.. there seems to be a lot of people who want to build them, but dunno how to secure them and manage legal difficulties

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like i feel like the Monero ATMs should be a Monero-wide issue rather than a project of people in the community in terms of XMR's liquidity and accesibility

selsta, it is so sad! Why? Why are people tolerating fees?

5​m5z3q888q5prxkg I think, the timming is bad for MoneroATMs in EU, in CH it seems to work amazingly up to CHF1000 without KYC (mostly, until something goes wrong).

Awesome!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> As usual, Switzerland is based

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> I don't think the timing's wrong would say that rather ideal to show to the opposition that EU citizens want monero

<c​t:xmr.mx> XMR ATM

But I'm pretty sure running a ATM in DE, FR you will be doomed after a couple of days. All what I see in last time is that they go more and more nuts. In this two countries anything without license you are almost in jail. I loved BTC ATMs and was driving up to 500km to go to one, but this was in Spain. I thing in last time the cracked also down in Spain and NL leaving CH as one of the only few ones you are not yet doomed. But CH is always bullied by it's

neighbours and often a issue of time. I guess that soon XMR will need to go 90% black market, und I think the way adoption would work better is concentraiting on really using xmr more as tender instead of exchanging to fiat.

I wish using it for tender was not limited to IT professions. Like, I would gladly do manicure or teach a language for XMR, but chnces are zero.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> i am aware, but from my experience in czech republic the issue is mainly people being afraid of cops breaking their door to shut the ATM down or situations alike and actually knowing how to make them work in a way that doesn't leave them without money

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> So i would rather see this being a monero-wide issue with physically exchanging XMR<->FIAT where the XMR ATM project is one of the possible solution

BlueyHealer: When I back on track (in my Life again, we will life in a RV or BUS, and I will sometimes sell stuff excusively cheap but only accept XMR, I think today ist the time. I would target struggeling (small and eco/bio) food supply and other small sectors who get cranked down all the time from gov, and I have the feeling it is becomming worse....

I still think the IRL services better have cash. We need more people using cash and keeping it alive, because we need it for the physical worldmore thn we do Monero.

5​m5z3q888q5prxkg yeah, and this risk is pretty high, I think the time (in most countries especially EU, for ATMs was 10 years ago).

On second thought - rather do nails for cash indeed, but would not mind being a techer for XMR.

*a teacher

BlueyHealer: I would be more then happy to abolish and gov fiat....

Me?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> xmrfamilyreplied in monero-project/meta #1010#issuecomment-2127934733

hackers could help by DDoSing Visa and Mastercard somehow

vthor, at least where I live, there is sorta something like this. Cash terminls allowing to pay for a variety of things, including PayPal-like payment systems. Sometimes they would allow transferring to a bank card as well. So it could be used with our exchange aggregator and whatever comes after Localmonero.

vthor, and how would you pay for groceries? Would you hve to carry a smartphone everywhere just to pay?

Cash is needed because it does not require any tracking devices like this.

great_taste | hackers could help by DDoSing Visa and Mastercard somehow <- please god let it happen it would be so funny

Well, normally I get at the moment groceries delivered at home - I don't like people, but when I buy in person it is mostly to "free thinking" people, and most never heard of monero. And yes for that I would even take a phone with me (althoug I normally don't use a phone - except for banking - when I exchange XMR to fiat)

Hving to have a phone with you for something as simple as that is really dystopian.

Cash is not need - at least no gov cash - I hope since years that it will finally die, not only the cash, I mean fiat at all.

You hope it could be replaced with non-gov cash?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> if XMR gets banned or treated as illegal in some juridistiction i would consider such offensive actions very appropriate tbh

For me I live in a dystopian world, Wise blocked my account for not declaring taxes anywhere

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> though i doubt that there will be any harmful changes to Monero including the law that the EU is preparing

vthor, you are also forgetting that for people doing unlicensed commerce (aka grannies selling crops from their vacation house yards), doing it online would be harder. And making purchases online anonymously in person is WAY easier than online.

5​m5z3q888q5prxkg, well, get ready, because it is happening all the time

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> for non-gov cash i was looking into goldbacks recently.. it seems like a bullshit on first look, but looking through that it's kinda very clever way of paying people the problem is being able to buy them with XMR and spreading awareness about them so that people know what these are to accept them

I have a disdain for government's *digital* money, cash is just fine. I think it absolutely should coexist.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Afaik it's mostly the US no?

I often send payments in advance or pay after I got the goods already in person.

What even is that? And how hard if is to make knockoffs of them?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Like the EU wants to require a license for people who do crypto exchanges and KYC but that doesn't really affect monero thanks to haveno

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so no harm done really and we get less crypto scams overall

BlueyHealer: why would anyone prefer gov *digital* money?

vthor, my preferred payment method is in cash while receiving in the store's office.

vthor, govt *digital* money - indeed, that stinks.

5​m5z3q888q5prxkg I think it will, and it will be for a lot of unprepared people awful.

5m5z3q888q5prxkg, but it might affect the crypto-ccepting businesses I guess?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well it is a problem for businesses who want to accept monero in the single market, but i don't really know how could that be managed as that seems to affect all non-KYC currencies and options

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Like goldbacks for physical and XMR<->FIAT for online through haveno seems to manage that problem

BlueyHealer: I think soon in a lot of countries, black markets will grow, because "legal" business you can't survive with tax and regulations

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> if we could make the XMR<->FIAT through the phone's NFC to take less than 5 sec we could also easily use it for in-person checkouts

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> (or any solution doesn't have to be a phone)

vthor, I mean they kinda do exist already, like on flea markets.

this I fought a long time, why not sign a transaction on the phone and transfer it to the merchant, and he sends it to the network.

5m5z3q888q5prxkg, a) that would require a semi-modern phone that has such a technology and b) not all phones can be made private. I would never trust any of my crypto business to my phone, as it is a gray area legally and might count as "sus".

5​m5z3q888q5prxkg, would also prefer, no phone, but the sad thruth is that phones a so much cheaper then any other device....

Not to mention you'd need to have a tracking device on you for payments, which is dystopin on a deep level.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> could be an offline wallet too

I would rather prefer cash and, if you need to check on the spot (like when buying) a laptop that has an OS that is proven to have no telemetry and does not have cell connectivity!

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and like point is having the solution there for:

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 1. normies who do not care about the security of their phone

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 2. people with hardened android

BlueyHealer: yeah but nothing for people like me who try to avoid people and even more crowds, can not talk much about it. I think the key would be to rebuild the whole infrastructure via xmr and create a parallel world - and anyway gov will get furious....

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 3. people with (hardened) linux devices

5m5z3q888q5prxkg, phone would still be able to triangulate by towers though.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like i am an OSHW developer i would add NFC to my daily device to use XMR and used it daily if it had this feature

Point is - hardened Android does not go on every device, especially if we're talking about budget models.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Can be managed by using the EC25-G by whitelisting the towers that it's allowed to connect to at the cost of signal strenght + other methods

vthor, you are describing a dystopia. I would rather buy some groceries from a granny next to the train station for cash. Plus, not everyone has a computer at all.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> but that's technical solution and not everyone really cares having a nice app that works and can do trades with would probably attract a lot of normies that would fuel the XMR's value

BlueyHealer: not necessarily. I build "secure phones", and started to stripe down GOS, the problem it is a hughe stockpile of mess in AOSP, and with each version it get's worse - always more code on top, instead removing something - like with everything....

<n​ickolas_1987:matrix.org> hello,i will enlighten you on how to make money from crypto trading,if your interested message me lets proceed

We do need an XMR economy, vthor, that I fully agree with. But it MUST be PARALLEL to the real world, not replacing it like in your fantasy.

<b​asses:matrix.org> ban

<b​asses:matrix.org> scam

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye i am the kind that makes my own PCBs and stuff

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> but still there is a "market" for people to use XMR this way

BlueyHealer: then why no silver coins instead? You use gov money, you feed the beast ;)

vthor, GOS only goes on certain evices though. FLAGSHIP devices. Completely unaffordable when new, overpriced when used and only hitting sane (but still not acceptable!) prices when close to the end of support.

vthor, yea, such coins would be nice.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> silver has problem with small currency and being able to verify it's authenticity in person in a reasonable time

<n​ickolas_1987:matrix.org> hello,i will enlighten you on how to make money from crypto trading,if your interested message me lets proceed

5m5z3q888q5prxkg, plus it being heavy when carrying large sums.

BlueyHealer: well I don't think it will ever replace the status quo, I gave up on that a long time, start of covid theater and reading all books of rand finally opened my eyes and started to give a crap.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like i am giving people silver rounds atm but not everyone wants to accept them bcs they don't know if the metal is actually fine silver

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> yea.. goldbacks solves that problem

vthor, I just want you to think about what you are dreaming about. What you're saying is best built PARALLEL to the physical, cash-using world.

We NEED cash.

BlueyHealer: what is for you an acceptable price, I sold my Pixel 6, two weeks ago for $100 to provide my familly with food....

For me, I find the acceptable price below $200 for a new phone. 6 is almost out of support and still goes new for above that.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> legacy samsung devices cost ~10 EUR and run linux mainline fwiw

BlueyHealer: cash is worthless and only backed by violence, I have seen local cash in germany, it never came out of a small group of people and businesses because it is more convinient to get things by goverments paper (people only don't think to get lube already)

5​m5z3q888q5prxkg it is hard to lock down this devices, and I can tell you frensh special forces was not able to break encryption on the custom pixel, but they where be happy to throw me for a couple of years away from the sunlight.

vthor, I kinda don't see much issue with cash. Even if it does go away - better have a non-governmental replacement for it, because it is vital.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> i feel like we are still addressing specific high threat model cases instead of focusing on the mainstream

Exactly!

Cash is the safest mainstream option to pay.

Believe me, the key is people wanting to pay with xmr because they get the stuff cheaper. As soon more people have this happening the more they will keep xmr around instead of changing it back, but this point takes a lot of power away from gov and gov is forced to crack down that people. Because when people see that they come away with it, more people will follow.....

BlueyHealer: well I'm out of the discussion, prepare better the lub....

prepare better what?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> thus why i argue for implementing user-friendly way to swap crypto and fiat in the XMR app

5m5z3q888q5prxkg, then it is vital to make the app not mobile-only or at the very, very least workable on Waydroid (so not making NFC mandatory). But yea, indeed would be cool.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like the XMR app works on linux, windows and MacOS mainly.. though we should make a management to generate Android and iOS version too

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> For iOS i would just release that as a cydia tbh tbh

iOS is a comparatively small percentage anyway.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> thus the generated

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Or for economical solution to just do offline wallets

Believe me, the key is people wanting to pay with xmr because they get the stuff cheaper. <- point is that there MUST be an alternative that is not dependent on the internet, we can't just make ourselves dependent on online commerce. That is dystopian.

I wonder if it's even possible to make such a wallet in a format of a card, without even its own power source...

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Actually if you search for Monero on czech web you get alza.cz/monero which seems to get lot of the normie-crowd a lot of useful and easy to digest info and things to get to use it

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so at least for czech market making the wallets more functional would probably be enough

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> for poorer countries there are the offline wallets kinda

What are the offline wllets like?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> e.g. alza shows trezor.io for offline wallets

<j​ohndoe427:matrix.org> Isn't the Pirate Party still pretty big in Czechian politics as well (now that I think about it?)

> for poorer countries

>looks at price

> lol what

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> not big enough we have a coalition of 5 parties running things atm

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> xmrstreet.store this might be more economical

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> though these parties like monero so kinda works out

Just as important as it is to push back against Monero restrictions, I find it just as important to push back against the restrictions on cash. Like, some places have a cash purchase limit, and this needs to be destroyed.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Note that you can make that on a 3D printer and make those at scale youtu.be/2nioZxR1uLg

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> the PCB calculated seems to be 2 EUR for 10 of them, 3 EUR components included

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well components and that raspberry pi

Wish Raspberries were cheaper, really want one as a TV box.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> but like i could probably make a desing that does this for under 5 EUR per one, but i doubt that the demand for it

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> olimex.com

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> u welcome

<c​t:xmr.mx> very optimistic pricing. I ran numbers on an rp2040 based design an even with a poor quality camera and screen it' be 15-20€ assembled. Not factoring any margins or R&D cost

<c​t:xmr.mx> very optimistic pricing. I ran numbers on an rp2040 based design an even with a poor quality camera and screen it'd be 15-20€ assembled. Not factoring any margins or R&D cost

How much would the RP itself be though?

<c​t:xmr.mx> Rp2040 is the microcontroller :)

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> oh you want screen too.. hmm that would probably be around that 20 EUR ye depending on the screen

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> unless you can source the display from e-recycler center

<c​t:xmr.mx> you some way to get the signed tx from the device

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like OLIMEX has a 1 EUR RISCV microcotrollers now

when you have time, you can source screens for $1-2, mc also $1-4

<c​t:xmr.mx> or you go completely nfc

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and the riscv MC seems that it's able to do the monero thing

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like i have laptops i got for free that have a decent screens in them but that seems to be an EU thing

esp32, braodcasting the tx via bluetooth of wifi to the merchants pos

At least from what I can see now, Olimex ones are above $100. So on par with Raspberry :(

s/above/around

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> the SBCs can be made via JLCPCB for around 10 EUR

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> you are paying for the development if you buy directly from olimex

<c​t:xmr.mx> rp2040 is about 1.20$ including external flash and crystal. Best performance/price chip I know of.

ct, ah, sorry for misunderstanding

<c​t:xmr.mx> and unlike the esp32 you dont have wireless build on, which is a plus for security

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> probably.. the economy of scale

Directly buying from them would probably not be possible unless they accept XMR lol. And even then there could be shipping issues.

ct, i think that depends on the volume you keep on transfer on the device and what is the purpose.

Didn't know about this controller btw

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> try sending them email tsvetan's cool guy

Still, probably could be shippping issues because of geopolitics... Idk if people do it safely.

<c​t:xmr.mx> buy parts, assemble locally. Not a big deal

Oh, 2k of RAM... Not nearly enough even for a minimal distro.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like almost all of olimex products are OSHW

Yea, looked at what it actuay is, and it's cool. Just not nearly enough for selfhosting or serving to a TV)

<c​t:xmr.mx> rp2040 has 256KB SRAM, up to 16M flash - also not enough, but plenty for a dedicated wallet

<c​t:xmr.mx> can monero be compiled for arm9 architecture?

<c​t:xmr.mx> can monerod be compiled for arm9 architecture?

ct, as for dedicated wallet - I wonder what about the power. I wonder if one could be made without iys own power source at all.

<m​kmk1996:matrix.org> How to register in it

<m​kmk1996:matrix.org> Im in that loop since morning

<m​kmk1996:matrix.org> Again and again

<m​kmk1996:matrix.org> 😭

<c​t:xmr.mx> bluehealer: difficult. NFC delivers about 10mW at best, and the cryptography need quite some computational power. Maybe deliver power through Qi charging

<c​t:xmr.mx> a small lipo battery is likely the better solution

Ah okay.

<c​hiefprivacy:matrix.org> How big the blockchain?

>192G, missing 1/2 days I think

I hear the blockchain is huge

<b​asses:matrix.org> SEC officially approves all spot Ethereum ETFs.

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> And here... We...... Go!

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Fucking ico coins getting ETF, it’s a circus

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> "Aah the ballet...."

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Is the stock market going to crash because of a smart contract?

<g​unter:kyun.host> Yes

<g​unter:kyun.host> I heckin love crypto ETF's, it saves all the trouble of actually buying crypto. We just need a monero ETF now, because muh cryptocoin stonks go up

<g​unter:kyun.host> No need to use it as a currency, you have government currency

<g​unter:kyun.host> It would be unfair if the banks didn't get a fee on every transaction

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> They're literally an institution! Sacred!

<a​xmasta:matrix.org> Nice PFP BTW , most excellent