<3​21bob321:monero.social> ^

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> what happened to v0.18.3.4 ?

supposed to be mid month so....

soon™

"More bug fixes have been merged into v0.18.3.4, checkpoints have been updated. Current estimate is mid-August release."

<s​trawberry:monero.social> Any estimate for how much monero is lost+burned per year?

123.58 coins roughly

1235.8

Idk

<y​asabi:matrix.org> probably the same rate as bitcoin, if not higher due to the valuation difference. the most frequently cited study by Cane Island suggests it's ~4%/yr

<s​ofabox:monero.social> hey guys what do u think about monero dev cycle vs other coin like eth? coming from eth developers from their foundation they seem to ship faster while monero is slower. i think slower is better as fast shows lack of care and rush. what do you think

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero ships when it ships and isnt s foundation. We're community developed and reviewed

<s​ofabox:monero.social> do u think this can last long? what happens if the community give up? eth foundation can mint $500k in eth whenever they need motivation. how will monero community survive

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like kayaba i watch some said he doesnt make anything from serai and i dont know how he keep motivation or if its stable long term

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We run on donations and it has worked fine for many years

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> He's self funded and isn't _accepting_ donations

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok

<s​ofabox:monero.social> self funded?? is this glowie?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> no

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> He made money from bug bounties and recently funded for FCMP. He's free to spend the funds however he wishes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok i didnt know history

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> other monero devs are making anywhere from 80-375xmr every 3 months

<s​ofabox:monero.social> thats not bad. not eth number but for community run very good

<s​ofabox:monero.social> hopefully dev can get more for there very good work. they deserve it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> its very good imo. There are no bosses here. You work on whatever you choose

<s​ofabox:monero.social> same with eth foundation. they hold over $1b in eth and earning interest do nothing and no boss

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i wish that money was allocated for monero development instead not gone to waste

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i see monero have fund for ccs. is that foundation too?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> monero core

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> CCS is community donations

<s​ofabox:monero.social> still community run

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> There are no funds allocated to ccs aside from the individual donations that come in for each proposal.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> General Fund occasionally donates to dev and research proposals

<s​ofabox:monero.social> one more question soz for asking many. i worry about monero and its reliance on other crypto in market. when they eventual fall and the ponzi stop, since monero have many pair in btc for example it will fall like 2020 to lowest price. how can we get monero to stop being reliant on ponzi coin

<s​ofabox:monero.social> if monero doesnt become antifragile it will be useless as currency

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Delist

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant fake dump if its not available on cex to dump

<s​ofabox:monero.social> from cex?

I just wonder what Ethereum maxis would use as normal internet currency lol. Domain renewal is like $15, how much would that be in Ethereum fees?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yeah

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so that is why monero didnt dump as much this time

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok good to know

Why do you think Bitcoin is a ponzi? It is the OG. Same idea but stolen by people that are more interested in gains.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> it fake dumped bcuz of fake volume on stuff like gate.io.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Do you know _anybody_ that uses gate.io? I dont

<s​ofabox:monero.social> B​lueyHealer as i said in offtopic ethereum people do not consider eth currency at all. we do not like using it as money. its similar chain to facilitate smart contracts which include defi and finance

this is the first time I hear of gate.io.

sofabox, ye, I get that point. So do they not mind just using their cards?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i think eth is ponzi too. its just smarter ponzi than bitcoin hidden behind complexity

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Because its a MLM scheme lol. 500k max tx/day = its a fiat making sham

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so it will take longer to pop

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Gate supposedly has the highest xmr daily volume 😂

<s​ofabox:monero.social> B​lueyHealer yes no one care about eth being useless other than for defi and scam. actually most of the biggest whale already know its ponzi and just taking advantage of dumb retail and institutions who come in

ofrnxmr, I just don't get it. Initially the tech had the same ideas as Monero now, didn't it? Seems to me more like a step in evolution of digital cash.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nvm. highest is "whitebit"now

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/zsuWMrJFUTRsGsnqAkpmdyWp

I bought Monero specifically because I couldn't use my card... Just a few years ago I wouldn't have believed I would be involved with any cruptocurrency lol

<s​ofabox:monero.social> probably all fake volume. whitebit doesnt seem real

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kraken at 2mill is the realistic top

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and the price of xmr is not good representation. im example of one person who wants to go all in but literal cant because there is no way of getting high amount of xmr. if whales cant get xmr then the price is really suppressed because demand is only coming from small buys

Why is Kraken listed twice?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> different pair. usd and usdt are different. usdt stablecoin and usd is deposit from bank

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bit2me = fake

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> htx fake

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> mexc fake

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> bitmart fake

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> kucoin inflated / grid bots

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> why kraken twice << Usd and usdt

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> get the real monero price from haveno

<s​ofabox:monero.social> still not real. i tried haveno and pathetic liquidity and price impact

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not even real ^, its still heavily influenced by the fake price

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i see its purpose for small trade and p2p but still not good representation until we get dex like serai

I am yet to try because I buy for cash anyway, but if the person can't sell to me anymore - I will. I do have the initial deposit now as well)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> if it use same price mechanism as bisq then probably yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero holders were smart, theyd raise haveno prices to always maintain 5x whatever cex is. Forcing users to arbitrage trade (but our cex reserves)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Once cex empty, then you'll see a REAL price

<s​ofabox:monero.social> also the barrier of entry high. many people want cex/eth dex experience. just connect and one click swap

It is not one-click, you'd have to present an ID.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for cex yes not eth dex

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You can use litecoin etc to buy xmr with no middlemen using basicswap

<s​ofabox:monero.social> cex so bad now i use kucoin yesterday and even small amount need kyc. i remember binance having no kyc limit for up to 2 btc daily

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not eth tho. Yet

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but i have eth. i saw basicswap and looks good but i think it need more pairs and we need a dex like this online no need of downloading anything but im not sure if it possible

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> its possible but insecure

<s​ofabox:monero.social> how does thorchain do it then?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> it has really good ui/ux

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> the point of running the nodes is to ensure the trades are being brosdcast and verified locally

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and security

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Remote nodes trade security and especially privacy for convenience

I am very afraid of KYC, mobile carrier, govt services, train/bus tickets and hotels needing it is way overkill already, I am not tempting fate with one more place from there it can potentially leak...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> actually youd be surprise how important convenience is with crypto. in eth everyone pivot to making consumer chains with the best convenience after the solana memecoin run

<s​ofabox:monero.social> eth l2 i speak about here

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I have to trust your node to send me correct info. Running node and wallet locally means that everything happens locally. I know the tx is in my wallet, because im running the full reference node and the full reference wallet for the coins im interacting with

I would go through whatever lengths needed to get my xmr without KYC. Especially given crypto's "gray" status legally.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Convenience brought us metamask wallet sweeps etc

How does eth dex work in this context?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> vcs investing millions to making convenience possible. i worry that if eth and solana become used by consumer. monero will get left behind because of its complexity

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> When addine eth to basicswap, it will probably allow browser wallet plugins like metamask. Eth users dont care

I would run my own node if I had bigger amounts, right now the stash is really small.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> eth dex is completely permissionless and has no kyc. if you have used swap services like trocador, its basically the same thing except it uses decentalized liquidity instead of cex

Ah, you mean swapping for another crypto.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes

Ye, the services for Monero like this are very easy too.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> if you try to get with fiat same problem as any other coin

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Should try basicswap with ltc and xmr. Its not as clunky as it seems

<s​ofabox:monero.social> hm i dont know about dex. i have yet to use monero dex that comparable to eth one. maybe serai will change things

ofrnxmr, do you use a local node yourself?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> as it sounds*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes, ofc. I run my monero node on android

<w​hiskey00:matrix.org> I highly recommend this, had a great and easy experience yesterday

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I also now run ltc and firo nodes as a result of using basicswap

ofrnxmr, how much storage does that need?

<w​hiskey00:matrix.org> I have basic Linux experience and this was probs one of the easiest plug and play experience I’ve had in crypto for a DEX

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Xmr node needs ~80gb free space.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ltc needs ~4gb, firo ~4gb

<s​ofabox:monero.social> what is highest liquidity for basicswap?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> rn

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ltc -> xmr

<w​hiskey00:matrix.org> LTC, Monero and BTC have the highest liquidity

Oh. I have 128 gigs which is overkill for a phone use, but a node like that would still leave too little room.

At a computer, though... Can an external SSD be used?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes csn use external ssd

I just don't really have that much more XMR than the cost of said SSD, so never really considered that.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> has monero consider using l2 for scalability?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> My node is an old phone, dedicated to being running node and other services

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fcmp should enable payment channels

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And monero-lws acts as a sort of layer1.5, we just dont have wallet support yet

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Fcmp the mythical beast, can’t wait

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Lws has subaddress support ?

I would not like to use a phone constantly plugged in, it's not supposed to do that. Maybe if you somehow remove the battery and fool the phone into thinking it is there - I remember someone using a capacitor for this.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> what does this mean? will it impact the amount of tx monero can handle per block?

But yea, I would have considered an own node if I had more XMR. Does that need to be online all the time or you can just sync it and use whenever needed?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Liquidity on basicswap is still relatively low compared to bisq and even Haveno, but its mostly because people have misconceptions about how hard it is to add liquidty

<s​ofabox:monero.social> also is tari positive for monero?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i see it has smart contract support and l2 with mining monero

how is that in terms of privacy, autonomy and censorship resistance

<o​hchase:envs.net> the lws servers are sketch in my opinion, or atleast bad for the network health. Way too much faith in external entities not to be colluding and tracking

<s​ofabox:monero.social> B​lueyHealer unless im mistaken i think tari will enable privacy with smart contracts so you can have eth-like uniswap dex on there and private

<s​ofabox:monero.social> it will also merge mine with monero so more security with higher hash rate

<s​ofabox:monero.social> lws require server to scan monero blockchain for you is that correct so you give it viewkey? this not safe...

<o​hchase:envs.net> its safe in the sense they can not take your funds, otherwise yea you forfeit most of the purpose of monero lol

<s​ofabox:monero.social> scanning and running your node is tedious for some so i think tradeoff is ok until we get seraphis right that should speed up syncing because monero is very hard to use with your own node. setting up is easy but the wait is long

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> any user can run lws

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I can run it at home and save tonnes on my mobile battery and data

<o​hchase:envs.net> yea I think I missed thinking about that use case

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so you run your own node then use it remotely with other devices you own?

So what about my previous node question?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> cant you already do this with local node?

<o​hchase:envs.net> I do stuff on desktop, so manually checking blocks locally from any node is good

Can you only run it when it is needed?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youd run lws all the time on your server / at home

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not if youre at the store. If youre not home, you have to sync your waller remotely

<s​ofabox:monero.social> also question for some. since serai will be public blockchain and audible, i imagine there will be people who will buy coin from cex like btc/ltc then swap on serai for xmr. do you think chainanalysis will track this as fraud and start closing accounts on cex?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If using lws, lws will sync the wallet on lws and transfer the info to your phone (saving a lot of cpu time and mobile data)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> has this happen to basicswap users?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for example

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hasnt happened yet, but ltc has mweb

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> For btc, a broken chain, i imagine cex dont want you using funds in any way they dont need appropriate

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok i just find it ridiculous that all crypto is tracked like this but the same treatment not really happen for cash. why they see xmr as this big threat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dont deem** appropriate

<s​ofabox:monero.social> xmr only has 2b marketcap its not even that big but the focus on it by governments is very high

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i find this sus

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and they allow scam ponzis to continue worth trillion...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and they allow scam ponzis to continue worth trillion... for btc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i saw on twitter even community members working on monero getting attack or ddos. this is very sad and i think its a sign everyone here on right track

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ty all for help answering my question i appreciate it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero.town, trocador.app, monero.com, public nodes, monerica.com, a lot a services under attack

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> haveno seeds nodes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> really? but haveno so small...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> right?. I wonder how theyll attack basicswap. Probably same thing, going after seed nodes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> also has anyone seen that bitcoiner super testnet who crack monero transaction. im not technical good so is this true or fake?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> he built some monero explorer that show all possible ring signature input if you put in transaction or for latest blocks. apparently you can narrow down tx if you know some things so is this bad...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> His explorer is trash

<s​ofabox:monero.social> all the bitcoiner say monero is broken and gone

<s​ofabox:monero.social> let me guess they are lying?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> p2pool.observer/transaction-lookup?…a09cf70536ec1e688b513d41aabd41e306d

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Heres a much better one

"show all possible ring signature input" as long as there is still more than 1 possible, it's not broken

<s​ofabox:monero.social> once again sorry if this stupid question im not that technical and just read reply on twitter and most are saying monero has been cracked

<s​ofabox:monero.social> s​ech1 yes it just show all 16

lol

so it just shows the rings

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes but it has feature to label each ring so if you know one is yours then you can find the correct one. he said this super testnet in the video

So the crowd says Monero has been cracked, average IQ of the crowd is in low 60s

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah. Supertestnets explorer is either a troll job or iq of 60-80

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lmao, sech. Jinx

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so explorer existed before his one like the p2pool you share?

the key point is "if you know one is yours"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> wow so much misinformation on the twitter then ty for clearing up confusion sech1 and ofrnxmr

"Let's just arrest everybody we find to have done the transactions in the ring. We don't care is they're fake".

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i was also thinking there was bounty for someone who can crack xmr right?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so if this guy really crack it why doesnt he claim this is why i didnt believe fully

also, everyone is so preoccupied with ring signatures, they didn't stop to think that there are also hidden amounts and stealth addresses which are waiting to be broken

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> over 600k usd. (they need to adjust for inflation. Cheap asses)

ring signatures is just one of the 3 privacy mechanisms in Monero

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i wonder why him and some bitcoiner try to spread this fear about monero being cracked...

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Politics?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> finding out explorer already existed just debunk the whole thing

if this guy publishes something resembling a scientific paper describing how he can break ring signatures, then there will be something to talk about

sorry, but twitter videos and flashy block explorers don't cut it

<0​xfffc:monero.social> If he publishes such paper, I expect he will be millionaires immediately.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> but but but.. he made a blocm explorer from the 90s

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant we give him some credit?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes but it go back to monero being so small. its 2b marketcap. if its cracked then why waste all this effort it really dont make sense to me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 600k, 0xfffc. government is cheap

<s​ofabox:monero.social> if your bitcoiner worry about your coin supposed to be worth 1 trillion not monero

ring signatures do have some weaknesses, like black marble attack

<0​xfffc:monero.social> I would give him debit 😉

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bcuz its really more like 20b

<s​ofabox:monero.social> sech1 but fcmp will get rid of this

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dont believe the bs numbers you see on coingecko

and there are some statistical attacks on them

but it's all probabilistic, there is no attack that says "these 15 out of 16 rings are fake, and this one is real"

<s​ofabox:monero.social> conveniently fcmp was not mentioned that will render all this useless

fcmp will replace ring signatures, yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If im government, im just telling exchanges to lie about price, and close withdrawals while we trade fake xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I run a lemonade stand and sell lemonade for 10c a cup.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> no you cant drink it.

one more weakness, is when someone is combining a lot of their old inputs in a single transaction

then ring signatures don't do much to hide the real inputs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I just need you to sell lemonade at 9c a cup so i can buy it from you

example: p2pool.observer/sweeps

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but you still have hidden amount and address

yes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so even if ring is found it doesnt break everything

amounts and destination address are hidden

<s​ofabox:monero.social> haha when u put it that way all this was rubbish from super testnet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If the person who sent the outputs to you knows the outputs, they can watch the chain to find out when you combine them

99% of twitter content is rubbish

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> In this case, a pool sent the outputs

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but is sweeping manual or does it automatically happen when you send tx?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like does someone have to do this on purpose

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You can substitute a pool with an exchange or a business that you regularly shop at

sweeping is manual

and there are safer ways to do it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The other 1% if ofrnxmr's twitter

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Exactly as sech1 said. 99.99% content in twitter is rubbish. Don’t waste your time

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its golden rubbish

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Follow @ofrnxmr for the best rubbish on the twit

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes i stop using it after seeing all monero hate. it only convince me more to go all in. i never see this hate for any other coin its shocking how much there is for monero and after finding matrix no need for twitter

<0​xfffc:monero.social> That I cannot dispute 😁

<s​ofabox:monero.social> sech1 but why someone sweep?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> what purpose is there for doing this

to have one big input instead of many small

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> it doesnt have to be a sweep

pool payouts are small, typically less than 0.001 XMR

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i see

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if i have to spend 1xmr, bur only have outputs of 0.1xmr, i have to combine them

<s​ofabox:monero.social> to have outputs of 0.1 does it mean someone sending you 0.1 10 times?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> separately

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> sweeping = consolidating outputs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It combines them into a consolidated transaction

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so how get it? if there reading on this i can just read haha

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The tx would have 10 inputs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 10in/2out

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but why would it have 10? in what circumstance is this?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The 10in would be 10 ring (160 decoys). 1 if the decots in each ring woumd be the true spend

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like if i use a normal wallet will it happen?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> DCA's from kucoin to creeate those 10 inputs, kucoin would be able to scan the chain to find out when they were consolidated

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you spend .9/1 xmr, you get back 0.1xmr in change

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Quick question. Why two outputs?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok but that is 1 input and 1 output right?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1st = where you soend, 2nd = change

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if no change, 2nd = dummy

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i see

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but where 10 inputs come from? it should be 1 input = 1 xmr?

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Aha yes. My assumption was no change at sweep all to single account.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> s/at/and/

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 1 xmr = 1 input

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 0.9 = 1 output

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 0.1 = 1 output as change

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> correct

<s​ofabox:monero.social> assuming no dca from kraken just sending from wallet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> edit ^^ correct

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so in that case would 2 ring signature be yours for output?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 1 change and 1 output to wallet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you have a lot of change from the same merchant, spending the change outputs together will allow the merchant to look on chain to see when a transaction that has multiple inputs with different rings that contain the change outputs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and theyd know it was "you" who created that transaction

<s​ofabox:monero.social> that makes a lot of sense

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ty for explaining

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so would average user have to worry about all this change they collect and chaining tx for privacy or does it not really matter?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> the best way to visualize this is p2pool.observer/sweeps

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> In this case p2pool is the "merchant" who is sending you outputs that can be linked back together

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes i look at this and it all look confusing but after your explanation it makes sense

<s​ofabox:monero.social> how did p2pool find the address? i thought this was hidden

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> the biggest joke here, is bitcoin. Their pools pretend to have less info than monero pools, when in reality, bitcoin pools know a LOT more

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Keep in mind that is in itself a statistical approximation (might or might not work, depending on the state of the chain). Not a deterministic cryptographic attack.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You have to send an address to mine on a pool

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if you want to mine privately, you solomine

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ahhhhhhhhh so this is all miner payouts?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its statistical in that 99% chance its you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> P2pool observer is yes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i thought this was for entire chain my bad

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But any merchant can run the same tooling on their own outputs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> moonstoneresearch.com runs this on the blockchain

<s​ofabox:monero.social> how are the amounts available too? is it because p2pool knows xmr they send to miner?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes i see each input known is coinbase to the miner and then the amount is summed to give full amount of sweep paid by p2pool

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Coinbase amounts are public

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And if im a exchange, of course i know how much i sent

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so if merchant ran tool and track you they cant see amount?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> oh...

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Why would merchant send coinbase txis?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> also are ip address available for monero? so like for eth if you send tx your ip can get logged by rpc provider is that the same when using remote node and broadcast tx to blockchain?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> A merchant sending change woulsnt know the amount, but would know "this is the same guy that bought the screwdriver and the wrench"

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Coinbase is specific kind of transaction. That a miner will receive as reward.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i mean normal tx

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero has support for onion/i2p nodes and tx relay

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Correct. But an exchange would

<s​ofabox:monero.social> this assume you buy all your xmr from one cex

<0​xfffc:monero.social> + dandelion++

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dandelion csn be defeated but works well enough

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lookup linkinglion

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This assumes that cex share info for central entities

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Which im sure they do. Most are in bed with binance

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> kraken being an outlier

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Incredible. Didn’t know about it. For anyone interested: reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/124ot…nkinglion_an_entity_linking_bitcoin

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so this mean serai will be potential attack vector? all swaps, amounts, and address will be publicly available. anyone can track this

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Theyre on monero too

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Serai wraps the xmr, so yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fcmp should fix a lot

<s​ofabox:monero.social> how will fcmp fix it? from the billion possible input?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fcmp = i will always reference my other outputs... and you will always reference my outputs as well.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> rings = statistically impossible for you to reference my outputs during a consolidation

<0​xfffc:monero.social> We have to have regular reading group for these stuff. monero-reading-group

<0​xfffc:monero.social> b10c.me/observations/06-linkinglion

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats the link

<s​ofabox:monero.social> Connections that complete the version handshake and stay connected learn about our node’s inventory, like transactions and blocks. The timing information, i.e., when a node announces its new inventory, is especially relevant. The entity is likely to first learns about our new wallet transaction from us. As the entity is connected to many listening nodes, it can use that informat<clipped message>

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ion to link broadcast transactions to IP addresses.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> from this it sounds like it can only get node ip address not person who sent tx ip address?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> also dandelion++ is recommended as a solution to this because this affecting bitcoin. dont see the problem?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> A solution might be Dandelion (in particular, Dandelion++ or some modification of it), where transactions are first transmitted to another node, which then broadcasts it. Dandelion++ is beeing used in Monero since 2020.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Haven’t read it completely yet. But I suspect / wonder is there any variant of the attack that would beat dandelion++ or not.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok but this attack doesnt affect dandelion++

<s​ofabox:monero.social> or user ip address just node ip unless i read it wrong

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Given AI and machine learning is expanding to everything, all transactions will be analyzed heavily to identify those behind the payments being sent. It's just the beginning.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ofc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> they run thousands of nodes. They kniw they didnt broadcast the tx

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "defeat" isnt deterministic, but statistical. If dandelion stem fails enough times, it will go to fluff

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ofrn tries to stem to lion 1, fail, lion 2, fail, fluff and then lion sees tx later from 0xfffc than the fluff attempt from ofrn = ofrn is the broadcaster

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tx-proxy helps (relaying over onion)

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Too many assumptions. Ofrn going first to lion1, then going to lion2.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> The assumption is the stem connection will be made to lion[1|2] .

<0​xfffc:monero.social> ( I have to read its paper to understand whats going on )

<s​ofabox:monero.social> has any crypto solve scalability problem btw? how will monero ever get as much tps as visa or mastercard?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> With dynamic block size kinda, but getting the tps higher is a challenge without having a side chain for settlements

I don't think it should be as big anyway.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> The good old debate about block size!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Check your peerlist

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They have a LOT of "nodes"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nodes in "" because they dont relay your tx

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> check your active connections**

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so if monero can be traced by all this why go through effort of using it when you can just use btc/eth?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> dandelion++ broken and ring signatures can be traced actively. this leaves amounts obfuscated but you can do this with mixers?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i dont think this just ask question to wonder why someone should use xmr with this weakness

<s​ofabox:monero.social> nvm these chain have pools who block tx from certain address. not possible with monero i have to consider other uses. image i post is from the f2pool founder who blocked tx coming from ofac sanction address on btc...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/MOVXJYgfQZspvgnqCZGubyXW

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cuz monero tracing is only possible in the perfect conditions, which include off-chain data

<0​xfffc:monero.social> That is a wrong statement. Who said monero can be traced? Dandelion++ is weakest part. We don’t know for sure it (dandelion++) can be traced. You can use tor / i2p though.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/OcKHZCtOPokIvcYvzJHPvjXU

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero tracing is like the the bottom. Btc tracing is like the top

<s​ofabox:monero.social> how wrong. we just had discussion that said monero tracing is possible but it needs perfect ondition

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like ofrn said

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> perfect conditions = i dust your wallet, i spam the blockchain and i am in control of the place where you spend the dust, + a bunch more, like sybilling your node, making tor and i2p unusable etc

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> it's typically not possible *without plausible deniability*

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok i see

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> the silver lining is it's good and it's getting better. the community remains committed to privacy above all else and continues to fund research and development of new cryptographic methods for maintaining privacy

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and this is much harder than track mixer?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero amounts being private is the #1 thing that stops tracing

<s​ofabox:monero.social> hm so why do nation state not use monero? like north korea always getting tracked using btc and eth. everyone say xmr criminal coin but all rugs and scam and launder mostly happen on eth/btc...

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> prove they don't :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They do

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> or better yet, prove they do :D

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They just lie to us peasants so they can keep it to themself

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Who said state entities don’t use it ? Btc/eth just has more liquidity for now

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but i see investigations from zachxbt and he tracked billions in btc and eth. this not possible for monero. if billions then we see volume and price change

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> look at xmr tx volume or hashrate, it oscillates

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Otc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> maybe they do but usage very small compared to btc and eth

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> monero goes in, monero goes out--you can't explain that.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The oscillations only happen on monero. Its not regular people doing this, its large entities who are gaming

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like marketcap of xmr i know it could be wrong but assume its right is what north korea tracked for one tx on btc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i highly doubt this

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yes, where they would need max privacy with limited liquidity xmr can be used

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero for feds is probably 70k/xmr

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> they most definitely have some fat xmr stash among their entire reserve of crypto

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> like, being north korea, there's simply no way you don't

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> you have to be literally biden-level braindead not to have some

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i dont think so still because of volume and marketcap. none of it adds up

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They only keep mc low so that you cant offload for $$

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> worm-ate-my-brain levels of brainrot

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> How to take over xmr: convicne xmr idiots to sell the entire supply for 3b

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> yep, monero market cap + liquidity is too low compared to many other coins

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> so, their xmr stash is probably a small percentage of their entire crypto portfolio

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> but they definitely have... having none makes no sense (at least, to me)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Id be very surprised if feds were trying to buy the entire supply at wb

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2b*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If feds werent**

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If im feds, again, im convincing noobs to sell me their xmr at 1/300th of a btc 😂

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like this is one example of lazarus group launder 200m. no xmr used in process... not even mixer!!!

<s​ofabox:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/bajbbLDVpRNcciufLCzfLcRb

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And hoarding it

<s​ofabox:monero.social> they just hack send through multiple btc address then deposit on exchange so i dont see how they use xmr

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for one group maybe another use it with xmr we dont know

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Smaourai was starting to use xmr and they caged it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Erm, u sure they didnt just fail to report the xmr?

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> you wouldn't see it tho, would you?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> like i said many times xmr with this much liquidity the price would go much higher than ath and volume would be large price impact too

<s​ofabox:monero.social> because this is just one group with 200m. there is more

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> no

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Price is whatever cex/feds say it is

<s​ofabox:monero.social> where can you get 200m liquidity xmr? its not possible

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes price and volume

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Go try to buy the xmr from any cex

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for this amount. if they used smaller then we cant know 100%

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They dont have it

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes so where is the liquidity for 200m

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I can tell you lemonade is 10c a cup and say i have 100000 cups, but if you ask to but 100000 cups, i close withdrawals after 3

<s​ofabox:monero.social> nowhere? not even if you use all swap like trocador and dex will you get this much

<s​ofabox:monero.social> cex/fed delist xmr to stop north korea from using it. looks like it worked

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> They have only a certain amount of coins, after that they try run for the hills and like Binance they finally delist if it’s getting out of control

<s​ofabox:monero.social> because now they forced to use eth/btc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> being hoarded or in our hands, being somd back to the short cex/feds

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> people need to stop being retarded

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And stsrt selling xmr on dex for no less than 1000usd

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok i see it now it clicked for me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Preferrably more like no less than 1btc/1xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then when cex have to cover their shorts, they have to pay for it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Right now, we let cex cover their shorts at whatever price they set

<s​ofabox:monero.social> whitebit #1 cex on coingecko, gateio and other unknown. all these cex have big volume yet price never affected. look like wash trading and manipulation. the price on cex this bases price on trocador, swap service and even dex like haveno because of small arbitrage. all this is manipulated but north korea could be use otc for cash or something we dont know

<s​ofabox:monero.social> whitebit #1 cex on coingecko, gateio and other unknown. all these cex have big volume yet price never affected. look like wash trading and manipulation. the price on cex this bases price on trocador, swap service and even dex like haveno because of small arbitrage. all this is manipulated but north korea could be use otc for cash or something we dont know for there other stash

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I want to see ppl on haveno raise the price to 1000

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then youll see cex squirm

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so the question is

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Theyll a) raise price or b) delist

<s​ofabox:monero.social> when serai come out... what will happen? will north korea dump its millions in btc and eth for xmr potentially? who knows

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If enough liquidity comes to serai

<s​ofabox:monero.social> if they do we can track it publicly. im excited to see what happen

<s​ofabox:monero.social> it will because it work similarly like uniswap

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> With haveno/dex prices high, users will swarm to cex to buy low. Cex will run out of reserves quickly and have to stop selling or will have to raise rates

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Uniswap has enough cross chain volume ?

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If buyers on dex/haveno are willing to buy high ? They can rn buy with instant exchangers at a very low premium

<s​ofabox:monero.social> good point and volume contian mev bot and other artificial measure. actually thorchain better example 105m in volume 24h

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Only 3/100000 cups of lemonade

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> After that, cex and swappers have nothing 2 sell

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They can only sell you a paper trading account

<s​ofabox:monero.social> exch only has 3600 xmr in reserves...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Exch claims to have 3600

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and it keeps running out

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But often they have 0

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> They source liquidity from cex

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And you have to wait 20+ confirmations for your swap to go through

<s​ofabox:monero.social> so even worse

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So.. when will monero folks start pricing monero appropriately?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok so to summarize xmr is better than eth/btc for use because only in perfect really not possible situation can you be tracked without plausible deniability. if this case then why north korea dont use it for example? they could be but liquidity is one of main problems why they dont for everything. liquidity is being suppressed by delisting and fake cex data

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> When ppl start saving in xmr 😅

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Short squeeze the cexs, make feds squirm

<s​ofabox:monero.social> didnt reddit movement do this before? so if redditors can then i think its possible

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monerun?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They stupidly BOUGHT xmr but never put it back on the orderbook at high prices

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They withdrew, which left cex to drop the price as much as they liked

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> We will always have traders/vendors who will cash out, if and when vendor supply chain is all xmr we will see the real appreciation

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If they keep it on cex it’s lend to other traders who are willing to play with pa

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you need to a) buy on cex low, sell on cex at 5000 or b) sell existing xmr on dex at 1000

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If they keep it on cex they lend to other traders who are willing to play with pa

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Have to put it on the orderbook, any orderbook, cex or dex. But if bought on cex it makes sense to out it back on the cex orderbook so people can see the true market depth move (until cex starts lying and closes withdrawals)

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/RHLpRVpvdObcAPDdxcdBsoEs

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Price needs to sustain a up move or arbitrage pushes it back, not easy as it sounds to get filled in 4 digits

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes it is

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Put in a market buy for 100k

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And watch those fake wallet dissipate

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Walls*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Paper trading paper liquidity

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> used to happen all the time on kucoin.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 20xmr available at 1$ away, you trt to buy end up paying 3$ away

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Why should one market buy 100k ? When it’s not going to sustain , you need millions in bids and keep pushing it up even if it gets filled you gotta add again

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Try to buy 5*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> x.com/litecoinlion/status/1820514307257270333

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Even traceable coins like ltc have short reserves

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yah those selling bots are arbing, if they can buy on other cex they will fill you

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s matter of vendors and other holders where they come to market and sell it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The orderbook says 20xmr available at 150. I try to buy 5xmr and end up paying 152. === 20 @ 150 was fake

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just numbers punched into a ledger, backed by nothing

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Backed by coins of depositors

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> To arb _between_ exchanges, you have to be able to withdraw. Cant withdraw if the real xmr is available for sale by real users at much higher rates

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Backed by nothinfg

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Kraken has enough coins to allow leverage selling on spot

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kraken doesnt have a lot of xmr last i looked. Their orderbooks look a bit more real though

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> kucoin has claimed to have 9m xmr before

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yes because they liquidate you if your margin is over and buy back those coins at higher price as per orderbook (which might be again some margin trader)

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> 9m xmr ? Or $9m

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 9mxmr

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> lol fake, I doubt if they even have 90k xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> #monero-markets seems to be misconfigured

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> charuto: are you a mod there

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I doubt they have 9k xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Shows its invite-only

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> 9k xmr is like ofrnxmr hot wallet balance

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 😭 i wish. More like 8k wow

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s ok to hold 7999

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Price will go up as circular economy grows as ppl currently fail to save in xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sup w localmonero.me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> fgssv2btn4f4gopdtka245bihx4eow2iquemikpqumxxemnjev6sjbyd.onion

<k​imapr0:matrix.org> what is this fake site

<0​xfffc:monero.social> This 👆🏻

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 20xmr available at 1$ away, you trt to buy end up paying 3$ away I find most of the lquidity is not on the books <> I find that most liquidity is not on the books. I put a bid 0.5% away from the price shown and liquidity arrives.

be a maker not a taker

BlueyHealer: an external SSD can be significantly slower than an internal SSD depending on the type of connection and type of SSD

The ones I use for my movies (a SATA in a case with USB-C) seems to be just as fast as my internal one.

I mean that the difference is not even noticeable.

syncing a node is nothing like a movie

much I/O

random

as to syncing a node only when you are going to use it... it is easier to know that your node is the one that the tx originated from

I have no numbers for this just a general statement

ah

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Keep in mind as ofrn said many of those wallets / orders are fake. Just a push upward and you will see substantial percent of sellers disappear.

So I guess for that you can turn it on at random as well.

0xfffc that is not my experience

there are buyers and sellers that are not on the books

and yes the bots move there orders to remain a certain % away from the lowest or highest price

*their

KYB know your bot

same for every coin

<sech1> 99% of twitter content is rubbish <<>> are you saying that cat videos make up less than 1% of content? 0_o

I also HIGHLY doubt porn fits within this 1% as well.

I go to onlycats.com for cat videos

<3

ONLY CATS COMING SOON :(

<0​xfffc:monero.social> One thing I am very interested and haven’t been able to find the data is the amount of shorts on xmr. As far as I have work on the street goes, I have heard there is a substantial amount of shorts on xmr to keep the price * artificially * low. The keyword is *artificially*.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> One thing I am very interested and haven’t been able to find the data is the amount of shorts on xmr. As far as I have heard and word on the street goes, I have heard there is a substantial amount of shorts on xmr to keep the price * artificially * low. The keyword is artificially.

please forgive me x.com/CatWorkers/status/1819325976133669021

<a​tori_0xbdc3ab4e:matrix.org> Do you access it via Tor? Or do you have dynamic DNS setup or so?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont use lws atm

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No good wallets

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> You can market buy and it will only be a wick, price will settle down again 🤣

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats why you set limits and chase the price up

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seriously tho, markets is invite only? Huh

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> no you're just banned

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It doesnt say banned

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/AeQYiqkqgkrHnDAEWVeRUpcS

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You see me on the banlist ocean: ?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/GsCmDcEdxhUAhrrqCfyLgHIq

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> yep

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Send an email to hardware⊙go

<m​eatmonster:monero.social> what's the best matrix client fellas

<m​eatmonster:monero.social> gomuks didn't have a room browser so i ended up trying cinny

<i​ty:itycodes.org> There's no singular best

<b​asses:matrix.org> nhekp or cinny

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Bold statement

<m​eatmonster:monero.social> feels like there's always something missing

<m​eatmonster:monero.social> can i not disable typing notifications on cinny

<b​asses:matrix.org> Nheko*

<s​trawberry:monero.social> excuse me?

<s​trawberry:monero.social> thats like half the supply

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah. Kucoin is rich like that /s