<s​ofabox:monero.social> ty very fair point. for a) any cbdc that is completely private is no go. whales the biggest ive encountered and who have big influence all dont like transparent blockchains. some of them big in defi and they dont like having whale alert or people tracking their funds all the time so i dont think usdt will work. cbdc would have to be private

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ty very fair point. for a) any cbdc that is completely public is no go. whales the biggest ive encountered and who have big influence all dont like transparent blockchains. some of them big in defi and they dont like having whale alert or people tracking their funds all the time so i dont think usdt will work. cbdc would have to be private

<s​ofabox:monero.social> bitcoiner notoriously bad at economic. satoshi left because it was pet project and people adopting too early. deflationary is not good and already demonstrate in great depression when you incentivize people to not spend it hurt the economy. monero is not inflationary when we take limit to infinity because the emission are constant 0.6 and linear which will get smaller and smaller <clipped message>

<s​ofabox:monero.social> as supply gets bigger

<s​ofabox:monero.social> inflation rate is what matter most and this effectively 0 for monero

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> What makes it zero with a tail emission? People accidentally losing their coins?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> no. its very close to 0 so small it basically 0 because it asymptotically approaches 0 as the supply keep getting bigger:

<s​ofabox:monero.social> monero is 0.6 xmr/block. this is 750 xmr per year. to make it simple let us assume xmr start at supply of 0

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 0th year: 0

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 1st year: 750 (inflation rate is infinite)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 2nd year: 1500 (inflation rate is 100%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 3rd year: 2250 (inflation rate is 50%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 4th year: 3000 (inflation rate is 33%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 100th year: 75000 (inflation rate is 0.01%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> as the supply gets bigger and bigger, inflation is constant and it therefore becomes smaller and smaller over time. if we take limit of this and go to infinity, it basically goes to 0. for example the 100th year tail emission would be 0.01% in this example which effectively 0 if makes sense compared to previous year

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> What they will probably start doing is rolling out CBCD’s in the UK perhaps for the disgusting amount of people claiming welfare, instead of giving them cash, give them that shite. 😂

<s​ofabox:monero.social> no. its very close to 0 so small it basically 0 because it asymptotically approaches 0 as the supply keep getting bigger:

<s​ofabox:monero.social> monero is 0.6 xmr/block. this is 750 xmr per year. to make it simple let us assume xmr start at supply of 0

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 0th year: 0

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 1st year: 750 (inflation rate is infinite)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 2nd year: 1500 (inflation rate is 100%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 3rd year: 2250 (inflation rate is 50%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 4th year: 3000 (inflation rate is 33%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 100th year: 75000 (inflation rate is 1%)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> as the supply gets bigger and bigger, inflation is constant and it therefore becomes smaller and smaller over time. if we take limit of this and go to infinity, it basically goes to 0. for example the 100th year tail emission would be 1% in this example which effectively 0 if makes sense compared to previous year

<s​ofabox:monero.social> the supply of xmr is much bigger than example i give so rate is lower but i use small number because its easier to understand

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> The concern I have is I think the block halving happened too quickly, loads of people don’t mind now unless you’re like me who doesn’t care about the electricity cost

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> The concern I have is I think the block halving happened too quickly, loads of people don’t mine now unless you’re like me who doesn’t care about the electricity cost

<s​ofabox:monero.social> greshams law. if we have good and shit currency, people more likely to use shit currency and hoard the good. xmr will be hoard and people will likely comply and use cbdc if its kinda private

<s​ofabox:monero.social> is this for btc?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I think a tail emission is actually a good thing, even with it, it’s doesn’t necessarily make Monero a depreciating asset but definetely supports the network you can bet people lose coins, and you can bet more people want privacy.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> That’s 100% going to happen with BTC yes, but I think in this case you’ll always have the big whales who will keep the infrastructure up and running. Monero, idk, I am betting my life on it thought :)

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I really don’t think governments will adopt CBDC fork of Monero lol

<s​ofabox:monero.social> it doesnt have to be monero but i think cdbc by governments is going to have privacy

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Eventually you’ll lose decentralisation with BTC, and when all coins have been mined it’s a good as proof of stake until all bitcoins are lost over the next 1000-2000 years.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Well, that’s if quantum doesn’t come sooner

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> :P

<s​ofabox:monero.social> big whales who will keep the infrastructure up and running

<s​ofabox:monero.social> not for long. mining companies have report big losses recently like riot loss 84m, core scientific lost 800m, marathon loss 199m and these big miners contribute most of hash on btc network with their asic farm. interest rate environment very high so these companies likely default soon if they dont come up with profit. btc has to double in price for each halving for it miner revenu<clipped message>

<s​ofabox:monero.social> e to be kinda stable. this is not possible and the marketcap shows how overinflated and soon it will collapse. no one uses bitcoin for transactions because its fees are too expensive and lightning is shit

<s​ofabox:monero.social> that not to say the price cant still go up. i still trade on the stupidity of other. i think with btc etf we will see it run up as institution adopt it without understanding nothing like what happened in 2008 when hedge fund finally realized MBS were not safe at all because of how the ratings were not done properly. it will take long time for market to realize this because greed is powerful

<s​ofabox:monero.social> that not to say the price cant still go up. i still trade on the stupidity of other. i think with btc etf we will see it run up as institution adopt it without understanding nothing like what happened in 2008 when hedge fund finally realized subprime MBS were not safe at all because of how the ratings were not done properly. it will take some time for market to realize this becaus<clipped message>

<s​ofabox:monero.social> e greed is powerful

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i just realize my xmr yearly emission calculation is wrong (not 750) but my point is still correct about inflation rate decreasing

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s 432/day so 157,680/yr

<s​ofabox:monero.social> does anyone know what happen to daniel kim?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> most talks are old from him. looking for new ones created recently but dont know if he still in monero?

<waltuhxrd> Sa

<s​ofabox:monero.social> very interesting observation. ever since binance delisting in feb, the pearson correlation between btc and xmr have decreased substantially past 360d. currently around 0.3 which is weak positive correlation so if btc go up, xmr follows only slightly. most amazing would be if the correlation is negative meaning xmr go up btc go down and i hope this eventually happens before btc blows

<s​ofabox:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/mcRUTNmVDNrfdHXeNqaWBshT

<s​ofabox:monero.social> here is btc and eth in comparison. around 0.8 instead suggest strong positive correlation between two

<s​ofabox:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/ubNtCUcrSrSAWaZKgrFzgnES

<s​ofabox:monero.social> sorry if this is in wrong channel btw and pls direct me to other channel where appropriate if its not here. i know monero community dont really like discuss price stuff

<s​trawberry:monero.social> there's matrix.to/#/#monero-markets:monero.social if you're into price

<s​trawberry:monero.social> also hoping xmr stops being correlated to btc

There is also this if Reddit is no problem: old.reddit.com/r/xmrtrader

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes i dont actually care about the price only correlation. xmr needs to stop following btc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> reddit i dont like

<t​hekingoftheabyss:matrix.org> Ау

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> crypto will always follow the one's with the greatest market capitalization, but considering all, Monero is pretty stable still.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> maybe becouse it is used for actual trading rather than investing by most

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> *because

<s​ofabox:monero.social> the greatest market capitalization will fall to 0 one day. if monero continuing following, so will it. we need it to stop

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> why would BTC Prices drop to 0? I personally hold over half in BTC, just becouse of it's market cap

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> *because

<s​ofabox:monero.social> there are many many reasons and if i go into detail it will flood this chat. i keep it simple. do you know howard chu?

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I don't

<s​ofabox:monero.social> he created randomx for monero and is extremely smart. this is what he has to say about bitcoin:

<s​ofabox:monero.social> mastodon.social/@hyc/112927300931600663

<s​ofabox:monero.social> this is one of the reason why it will fail. there are many more ofc but i think this is solid one

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> he talks about incentivers to attack. Most people only demand 1 confirmation, since that is already pretty safe. Attacking a POW-coin like BTC would require a massive amount of ASICs and would be a multitude more difficult than attacking Moneros 2,5GHs Nethash

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> Considering the halvings of the past, there were no disasterious effects as well

<s​ofabox:monero.social> what is the marketcap of bitcoin rn

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I do believe BTC is pretty safe form network attacks. As is Monero. Or even POS coins with enough capitalization

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> let me look

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> around one trillion eur

<s​ofabox:monero.social> ok i deal with usd and its 1.19t. after the 2024 halving, btc need to go to 2.38t so miners break even and earn the same as they did before it

<s​ofabox:monero.social> then next halving, 4.76t

<s​ofabox:monero.social> next 9.52t

<s​ofabox:monero.social> thats almost the marketcap of gold. sorry but no matter what you think of btc that is ridiculous

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> you mix up market capitalization and market prices

<s​ofabox:monero.social> next 9.52t after that 19t

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> as the supply gets lower, the prices go up without necessarily incrasing the market cap in the same way

<s​ofabox:monero.social> the supply isnt going lower. its going higher

<s​ofabox:monero.social> until 21m

<s​ofabox:monero.social> you mean the rate of inflation is lower?

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yeah but at a slower rate

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yes

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but the supply is still increasing...this means the price goes lower if no new unsuspecting victims buy

<s​ofabox:monero.social> monero has the same thing but compared to bitcoin its actually used

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> every currency has an increasing supply or some sort of inltaion, that isn't necessarily bad if you want that currency to be actually used. As for BTC, the rate of extra supply drops and will eventually end

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yeah, I'd love to have monero have the market capitalization that BTC has, don't get me wrong

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i dont care about mcap of xmr. i dont care about its price as long as its relatively stable and doesnt dump with btc when it goes to 0

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yeah we'll see when that happens. but being actually used is a good sign of stability. If you check market cap / trx ratio, monero does pretty well

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> though moainly used for chainhopping

<s​ofabox:monero.social> 126.83B of btc is held in IBIT etf. bitcoin, "a purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution." directly from the whitepaper and 10% of the mcap is being held by one financial institution

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> *mainly

<s​trawberry:monero.social> worse, aren't most of the bitcoins in ETFs held by coinbase?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i dont know to me bitcoin is so retarded my head hurt people actually put money into it. maybe because i know btc from 2013 since then and im old

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> so, they hold 10% of the market cap. they can use taht to influence prices, but have 0 interst in lowering them. It has no negative impact on network security

<s​ofabox:monero.social> dont get me wrong i still trade btc and eth made lots of money. but i dont think of it more as just ponzi

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I get most of my payments in BTC and choose only to exchange 35% or so in XMR

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> or at least go through XMR once before I cash it out

<s​ofabox:monero.social> the security goes back to the marketcap i mentioned before. for the price to sustain itself it must continue doubling and its getting more and more impossible

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> but I'm not a trader

<s​ofabox:monero.social> even with the supply thing you mentioned

<s​ofabox:monero.social> fiat is better than btc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> as bad as it is

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> if you're running alighting node it's actually not that bad, but as a layer 1 solution there are better alternatives. It's only real asset is the market cap

<s​ofabox:monero.social> lightning completely failed and its barely used there are multiple giftcard vendors with stats that prove no one uses it. eth l2 has been more sucessful

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i respect bitcoin. it started cryptocurrency and is amazing but its old and useless other than for speculation that will not last. technology evolves

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I use it regularly and it works for me. at least it's more privacy and faster transaction times

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> but to each his own

<s​ofabox:monero.social> lightning has no privacy

<s​ofabox:monero.social> it has an illusion of privacy but no real privacy

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> when arbitration happens it is still public, but only the arbitration

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I agree that Monero has better privacy though, of course

I thought with BTC it is mostly inertia. "Oh this was the currency Silk Road used!"

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> that's why I at least go through XMR, as BTC is also just far more adopted

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I bet a lot of ppl regret getting that 5 grams of hash for 0.3 btc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> you should see hype bitcoin had for silkroad and when it got accepted for wikileaks. back then grassroots community felt like monero. now its all snakes who hodl for more money and scam each other. great fall

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> Everyone's free to choose. I use XMR whenever possible for actual trades

<s​ofabox:monero.social> satoshi left because his experiment got adopted before it was ready. he was scared of the reprecussion especially after glowies had their sight on btc after wikileaks incident

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i agree. free market. choose whatever you want. im just making my opinion known and it could be wrong who knows

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> sure. I do hope for a wider adoption of XMR and a higher market cap, but so far I've been good using it to trade

sofabox, ye, exactly. And I am not tied to Monero specifically too - I don't deny that there may be a successr to it that is better, maybe a non-blockchain one...

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I can't change tha fact that BTC is more accepted. As is MS-Windows in comparison to UNIX

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> those are just facts one has to live with

I have only used XMR so far because that's what I buy for cash, and because the fees are small.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> B​lueyHealer neither am i and i understand that technology changes. like you if something better comes i wont be afraid to use. ive tried lightning, eth l2, solana, everything and all of its shit same ponzi imo

The area where I wish there was more XMR adoption is for sure domain registrars.

Like, I wanted to go with Porkbun, but they only accept BTC/LTC.

Maybe I will, but by inputting the registrar's payment address at a swap service.

At least swaps are hassle-free.

<s​trawberry:monero.social> how do eth l2's work?

I have NEVER seen solana accepted, lol.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> btc is not accepted more. darknet markets have abandoned it completely. i do agree btc more known and synonymous with crypto. i remember microsoft and steam once accepted btc, quickly remove it after no one used it and was hard to maintain. it has failed real adoption but hodl culture has remain

<s​ofabox:monero.social> depend on which l2. there are op stack and zk for example. each has its own tech. i recommend research because its hard to summarize here

<s​ofabox:monero.social> eth still shit scam but the l2 reduce fees and make it much faster. still shit

sofabox, I know about the dark markets embracing Monero (although even that seems not to be universal, even if lack of XMR is clowned on). I was talking about legitimate businesses, which is what I use myself.

<s​trawberry:monero.social> I try searching but it looks like they're all companies with fancy web design, marketing rather than explaining how the tech works

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes i refer to darknet because criminals are always early adopter of new technology. mobs were first to adopt telephones and had their own lines setup

god I wish I could fill Steam with Monero, that is so much easier than through a middleman! And middlemen have unfair fees too...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> welcome to eth. everything behind company and vc

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> it's pretty easy to get steam vouchers for crypto, and if XMR is not accepted, just use a swap

sofabox, yea, I know. I just don't have firsthand experience with DNMs. But it is cool how adaptable they are indeed.

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> "When privacy will be outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy" - Phil Zimmermann

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Which legitimate business wants to accept xmr ? When noobs have a hard time acquiring or using xmr

phoreskin, not seen that! I wonder if they have region restrictions...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> vpns, domain hosters, and giftcards. mostly online services

I am just afraid of getting scammed - but crypto would make it better because I am hesitant to give randos my card information.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i dont think xmr will ever be outlawed. government will eventually allow it. they are not shadowy mob and i trust people will fight for their rights

dave.jp, surprisingly, VPSes for XMR are not that uncommon, even if more expensive than ones paid by card.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> what region do you need?

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I'm sure msot are covered

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> They are already accepting it

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I don't care about "outlawing" it nationally at all, not that I see this coming...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> unless, put tinfoil hat, btc going to 0 will start the next great recession. crypto will be hated. cbdc put into place after crypto render scam

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> They are uncommon compared to just buying with paypal or cards

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Until it’s easy for users, those users won’t push vendors to accept xmr

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> LWS might help, god knows when it goes mainstream

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> just get a VCC and a PayPal then...

<s​ofabox:monero.social> did you see what i sent into monero markets. that is what we need for mainstream whether you like or not

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Too many extra steps

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> That’s a niche

<s​ofabox:monero.social> niche worth 60b

<dave.jp:matrix.org> They are uncommon compared to just buying with paypal or cards <- I know, and the prices are higher. What I meant is that there is still a relative variety.

LWS?

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> lets be real, there's using crypto for it's use case and fiat for the rest. at some point, just exchange and you're set

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws

To be fair, I guess most of the 60b are people speculating, not actual users.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> in the case of sol most are retail gambling on memecoins

I use crypto for things I cannot use my card for - foreign digital services.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> because its so easy now

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> so do I. But eventually I cash out what I need for a living

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> after that I can get steam or whatever the hell I want without looking for XMR accpetance

<s​ofabox:monero.social> btc good for this

<s​ofabox:monero.social> cashing out

I use cash in my daily life.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> doesn't matter really

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Explains xmrbtc chart

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> as long as you went through monero

I wish I could use XMR for Steam - because my card is NOT accepted directly, because sanctions.

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Washing machine, a tool, not a currency

That is why I have crypto at all. But even when this is all over, I think I would be sticking to Monero when possible.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I wouldn't use coinjoin though, as some exchanges won't accept those coins... fungibility and all

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> but for the last 3 years I am cashing out directly through monero

<s​ofabox:monero.social> monero flagged as sus and cex will close your account if you deposit it

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for me

<s​ofabox:monero.social> thats been my experience

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> hm, I use exchanges that list monero, so ofc it's not flagged

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> also I got some cards I can load cash via ETH or BTC, so I just use a non-KYC exchange for those

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> pretty hassle free

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i swapped some eth to xmr then deposit to kucoin 1 xmr. instant closed account and need kyc, video of myself, and report of where money came from as proof

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for 1 xmr

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I wouldnt look for a 50 bucks voucher or sth

I don't use CEX because they would require a full KYC :(

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yeah you are using shit exchanges then

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> happened to me in the past with coinjoined xmr using wasabio

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> *wasabi

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> coinjoined BTC ofc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> from that day forward i never use cex again

<s​ofabox:monero.social> whales on eth who have 15m+ they dont ever trust cex why should i

<s​trawberry:monero.social> kucoin says they have 10m xmr, but block you from depositing 1?

<s​trawberry:monero.social> scam exchange

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes they said its suspicious and require kyc

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> I bet it's just normal KYC-procedure..

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and proof of funds even worse

<s​ofabox:monero.social> for 1 xmr

<s​ofabox:monero.social> $150

<s​ofabox:monero.social> and proof of funds even worse - this include bank statements for example

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> so, it's a shit exchange

<s​ofabox:monero.social> all exchange will be like this. at one time kucoin never had kyc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> all exchange will be like this. at one time kucoin never had kyc for up to 2 btc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i know new exchange always come out with relaxed limit but it always comes to regulation. dex are the only answer

<s​ofabox:monero.social> with btc you used to buy how much you want with paypal no kyc nothing no one cared a long time ago

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> for xmr there is unstoppable swap

Crypto here has a gray legal status - so I would be cautious tying its ownership so conveiently to my ID.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> lol you still can

I think it is treated as stocks and not money.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> buy as much as you want with paypal

<s​ofabox:monero.social> B​lueyHealer unfortunately all my eth i bought from coinbase and they have my id

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> if you can't manage crypt to paypal

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> you are really doing something wrong

<s​ofabox:monero.social> regret it to this day provide kyc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> maybe $5 i deal with 6 figures purchase

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> via Papal? :D

Hello, off-topic. Is this channel IRC or Matrix?!

<s​trawberry:monero.social> it's both

you are on IRC

<s​ofabox:monero.social> no i use bank and coinbase had to do kyc for that amount

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> lol ofc they do

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes but back in btc early day you could do 6 figue paypal with nothing

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes but back in btc early day you could do 6 figure paypal with nothing

Paypal doesn't work here now btw

<s​ofabox:monero.social> that long time ago

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> true. you still can, if you know the otc traders from wy< beack

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> *back

<s​ofabox:monero.social> otc i know retired and gone

But I guess the sellers can work with similar payment systems - some of them I have seen available in cash terminals, so even if I lose my contact, I can still do it with cash)

<s​trawberry:monero.social> forget btc, paypal alone will freeze your account if they see 6 figures

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yeah ofc!

<s​ofabox:monero.social> not in past. paypal and cex everything got worse

<s​ofabox:monero.social> supposed to decrease crime but it just make everything worse and crime is going up

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> naaah, 5 figures and paypal didn't really work smoothly ever

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> it's not designed for that

<s​ofabox:monero.social> it did used to all you need was email and you can have paypal linked with bank + btc

I have a feeling that most large-scale money laundering is happening not via cash or crypto, but via the good old banking system :/

sofabox, that's neat!

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> ave you actually tried to USE that paypal for a 5 figure payment?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i wont say because then im doxxing my timeframe and potential holding

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> well I'll dox myself, it froze your account

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but yes lets say that was possible

<s​ofabox:monero.social> did you use mt gox?

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> crypt to fiat is still super duper easy

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> nah i used btc-e

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> nefore kraken

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i see

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> after that kraken

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> and right now some other ones

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i only use mtgox

<s​ofabox:monero.social> before it collapse

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> btc-e is gone for good as well after the depostits were stolen :P

<s​ofabox:monero.social> nyknyc

<s​ofabox:monero.social> that i learn after those days

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> so, I just use crypto for it's use case and fiat to live. will stay that way for the forseeable future. everyone who says youshould be able to get a burger with xmr has no idea

<s​trawberry:monero.social> why no burgers for xmr?

<s​ofabox:monero.social> i think he means widespread adoption everywhere

<s​ofabox:monero.social> there ofc will be niche burger some people accepting xmr

Crypto does NOT need to replace fiat imo. It needs to be allowed to coexist and not legally pressured.

Burger you'd get in-person anyway, why not use cash?

People pushing for crypto use should be at the same time pushing against cash regulation.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> one day cash will not exist. why? depend on what excuse government come up with. maybe environment bullshit

<s​ofabox:monero.social> cash already phased out in walmart and other stores near me. they refuse to accept it

Yea, thus - they're in the same boat. XMR can be regulated into oblivion as well so that businesses would have a hard time using it.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> holy shit better invest in gold and cocaine then I guess

So the people who CAN and DO push back - better do that simultaneously.

sofabox, wow.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes its bad

Never seen that here... I am doing my part in that I use cash almost exclusively.

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> i'm german based and here you can get real estate with cash no questions asked

<s​ofabox:monero.social> they always recommend not pay in cash use card

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> that's why mobsters from all over the world come here and just get real estate when they retire

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> try getting a house here right now, it's crazy

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> laundering with cash is dumb and too easy

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes it irony of it all crypto always accuse of crime

<s​ofabox:monero.social> but cash is worse and has higher usage of crime

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> ofc

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> laundering rarley uses crypto except for drugmarkets who make less then 10% of the drug market as a whole

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> just set up a bunch of companies, you don't necessarily need alawyer for that

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> be employee with with your chosen salary

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> and you're good

<s​ofabox:monero.social> darknet drugmarkets are nothing. 500b is estimate for drugmarket and maybe darknet is 5b at best 1%

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> all with fiat

<s​ofabox:monero.social> law enforcement actually prefer criminals to use crypto mostly bitcoin

<s​ofabox:monero.social> this 500b figure from 2017 last i read it...

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> yeah not even 10% that's what I read in a quality newspaper, I can't find the source rn

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> sorry I don't have any amounts... but we're in the same boat, laundring happens via the traditional ways

sofabox, the banks and other KYC methods are used for tons of crime as well.

<s​ofabox:monero.social> yes but that biggest crime i think

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> almost all online fraud happens with fiat

<s​ofabox:monero.social> im not sure why xmr always called criminal coin

<s​ofabox:monero.social> does anyone know where the name for this spread from? is it just because its accepted in darknet now?

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> btw the large amounts are fraudulent businesses... that don't deal in crypto at all

<p​horeskin:matrix.org> maybe because Interpol mentions XMR specifically as beeing used by criminals, mostly by chainhopping, since 3 years...

sofabox, because some people hate privacy, they say the same about cash)

<s​ofabox:monero.social> thats true...

m-relay how is it both?!

sech1: how do you know I'm on IRC. Is it because I don't have <something:monero.social>?

Yea

The nicks do look differently on IRC.

Yes, they look cool though

gachikuku: If you're on IRC, you'll appear as a real user on IRC, and as a bot on Matrix. And if you're on Matrix, it's the other way around.

Not sure how they call the bot on Matrix, but on IRC the bot is called "m-relay".

<m​mxxx:monero.social> USD is the real criminal coin.

Oh God! and I was replying to m-relay all this time!

mmxxx:monero.social: thank you!

remiliascarlet: thank you!*

Now on topic, theoretically speaking. If I was to cross borders and know the seed off by heart I can have access to any fiat currency? Even EUR?

"Zcash is the most important project in the world, and it is winning." medium.com/@zooko/zcash-is-winning-48579b89770e

LOL

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> :D

it's so *winning* the IRS already broke it, without posting a $1.25M bounty

the only one who won from zcash was zooko. ZookoCash

<b​asses:matrix.org> link?

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> alright, that was some good cringe

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> alright, that was some good cringe, thanks

<3​21bob321:monero.social> “Zcash is winning. For the last eight years, Zcash has successfully outraced and outmanuevered those lumbering titans, the national governments”

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> same guy that suggested adding a backdoor for LE

<b​asses:matrix.org> to trace "bad people"

<3​21bob321:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/DRNCPpKXpJBUEMKiWYgVjTJX

"And by the way, I think we can successfully make Zcash too traceable for criminals like WannaCry, but still completely private & fungible."

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Zcash z addreses suck too

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The only type of zcash tx that is any good is z<>z

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> z<>t ot t<>z ks terribly cringe. You have to maintain multiple wallets. Cant share your z address with anyone

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You can look up z addr on chain and see the full amount of deposits from t addresses, and see the t address that sent the funds. So you can see "this z address has has 983 zcash deposited from these exchanges" etc