<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> I’m more interested in monero daemon that a wallet because there are already a few wallets. I have a couple iPads that I would like to make use of.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> Hey guys, havent followed any news in probably a year or more... does anyone have any true info about why localmonero went down?

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> or is it just (most likely true) speculation that government forced them down, and is it because the main dev revealed his identity, or government just ended up finding him

That happened around the time of Samourai arrests and proposed crackdowns on crypto, so I can only suppose they didn't want the risks.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> so youre thinking the government didnt actually find the main dev, or threaten him at all?

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> i only read a few threads and responses on reddit, but what about his very short responses to people with no details at all (not such a big deal in my opinion) but really why not make the entire site open source for someone else to continue if they wanted

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I’d say money transmitter scared them

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Or they got a letter

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> I admit I never fully looked into how the site functioned technically, but I thought they never held money at any point?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Neither did whirlpool devs

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> (and I never did actually get a chance to use the site)

<3​21bob321:monero.social> It was a one time fee to join

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> I hear ya...

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Tbh they throw mud and see what sticks

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> just sickening.... to you pathetic law enforcement people reading this, thinking you are fighting all evil people... you're not... you're simply helping move the future of humanity to a horrible place

<s​trawberry:monero.social> they did hold the coins

<s​trawberry:monero.social> but yeah, that's not even a requirement to be a money transmitter anymore

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> you (LEO) are the actual bad here, trying to stop a future where people can have actual privacy against all the VERY VISIBLE evil trying to track every second of every persons life (google, amazon, microsoft, etc)

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> really makes me not even want to live in this world anymore.... me, someone who just wants to be able to buy groceries and pay for gas and travel places without some huge company keeping a log forever, not someone planning attacks to kill people

<s​trawberry:monero.social> then use physical cash while it lasts

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> But this is what you (LEO) accomplish... turning normal people into criminals for no reason, making people consider suicide, yea you're really fighting the good fight.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> I havent had a credit card for the past 20 years, it's been all cash

<zero-ghost:matrix.org> so youre thinking the government didnt actually find the main dev, or threaten him at all? <- might be, just not hearing details.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> yea i figured no one has any hard details, just wanted to see what the general thoughts wre

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> yea i figured no one has any hard details, just wanted to see what the general thoughts were

I don't ever consider a credit card, I spend responsibly but I am just uncomfortable with the idea of being in debt for no reason. I do have a debit one, but it's perpetually empty, I use cash for everything including online stores.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> exactly, i dont want to spend money i dont have

<m​odul8:matrix.org> id worry about not blending in by not having any debit/credit purchase history.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> but really much more importantly i dont want a tracked list of everything i buy for my whole life

zero-ghost, I didn't even think there have been threats, because nothing really pointed at it. The whole situation of being the biggest place where people go buy Monero with no KYC is enough on its own.

modul8, there are a lot of people like this, I wouldn't worry about that.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> yea I can see that

If anything, I stopped worrying about my privacy hobby as well because it is now a very logical extension of my security fixation.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> that is the turning point where I don't dive into utter paranoia

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> yea it stands out, but at the same time i dont think I personally stand out to where they are going to have humans dedicate real life hours to me in any way

exactly

That's not even a thing that gets you onto the lists imo

<m​odul8:matrix.org> its no mystery why local monero shut down. they are not stupid. they understand the need for monero and so can understand other trends as well. eventually they will become a target so stopped while they could. thats how i saw it.

especially since they would be such a chonky target

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> life isnt worth living if everything we do is just being automatically added to lists and then who knows what is being done from the information on those llists

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> so i'll do whatever I can to avoid all automated logging

I think I am on the lists, but rather due to being in contact with certain people than any of my habits.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> thats why i never join any groups in real life cause you know these nazis have someone go to the public meetings and log everyone

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> would love to go to a monero meet up

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> but this is what they do (LEO) create fear (almost like terrorists)

Well, by that logic you're not even living. I did join some meetups, but even if I didn't - I would've probably gone on a list by being a classmate of someone.

I am trying to keep my paranoia level healthy.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> exactly right, feel like I've thrown most of my life away

Because realistically, due to my passivity - I am not likely to be investigated manually. And for someone looking for an easy prey for a promotion - I am not *the* lowest-hanging fruit just by virtue of being inactive on major messengers and social media, and being careful what I say even then.

I feel like I've thrown most of my life away for different reasons, but that's a long story.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> but you would do a lot of things differently if it wasnt for knowing how much tracking is going on and the far too much power law enforcement has and just the insane amount of unjust rules?

Probably not much, I am passive in general.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> ah alright, for me thats the case, I am incredibly sickened that I can't simply live a private life without some massive corporation or the government recording every step

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> and I would've done so much differently

I mean, I would have probably used the same tools as I do now. It is not about what they do record, rather what they can.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> thats a big rabbit hole, so much has changed over the past just 10 years alone

So likely would've still switched to Linux and Graphene, as well as FOSS tools. It is made easier because to begin with, I was not even used to cloud features.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> yea to me thats not a goivernment thing although I guess still greatly centered around privacy

Was lucky to be at a good starting point and to have privacy as a fixation)

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> since after windows 7 microsoft started right up slapping in more spyware, tracking

true

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> and by that time I considered linux to be usable day to day so I switched and never looked back

By that I mean that I likey would've had a life similar to what I do now. I was almost cash-only back before I thought about the tracking. I was, just like now, not used to using the cloud. I would've likely changed from Windows at some point because I was grossed out by Windows 10 even back then. The thing I would've likely done differently is not treating my phone as a fully untrusted device, and

not looking into alternative OSes.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> yea things probably wouldve shifted no mattered what even if there was no concept of government spying

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> I need to go watch some rainbows and unicorns or I'm really going to kill myself diving into this dystopian trash

Judging by your tone, you need a nice walk and a couple hours of exercise right now. The anxiety is not helping.

<z​ero-ghost:matrix.org> (LEOs) you are what is making life not worth living. ~From a normal person

I hope that right now you wash your face, have a herbal tea and go for a walk, preferrably a run. I have episodes like that, I understand.

<s​daffdasf1:nope.chat> does ios

zero-ghost:matrix.org: "since after windows 7 microsoft started right up slapping in more spyware, tracking" I'd rather say they've been doing so since MS-DOS 1.0.

Or maybe since Xenix 1.0, which they had before MS-DOS.

I used Linux for 3 decades, but with the code quality getting poorer and poorer, Linux becoming gradually less Unix-like and gradually more Windows-like, more distro's joining the Cult of SystemD, Linus Torvalds having gone woke, and stability in general getting worse and worse as time goes on, I took greener pastures, and switched to OpenBSD.

The positive about GPL licenses is that you can't just integrate code into proprietary software (even though Microsoft doesn't give a fuck, and does so anyway), but the negative is because of that, it's prone to being infiltrated from within, which we've been seeing now that Linux is getting more popularized.

BlueyHealer: "I don't ever consider a credit card," Valuable lesson when doing grosory shopping online: never pay by card, and always pay by cash!

Because if you pay by cash at the front door, at least they won't be able to fuck with you.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> The fuck

<i​ty:itycodes.org> System design wise, NT is in a far better state than Linux for a lot of things. Unix-like is not great, we are not on 1970s mainframes anymore.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> It's just a shame that we don't really have any good OS built on top of NT :)

<i​ty:itycodes.org> And calling Torvalds woke is the most random shit ever

Unix is still one of the best, even if we're not using mainframes.

The point is simplicity, do 1 thing well, have programs work together, and so on.

NT lacks all of that. It wants to become everything, and does nothing right.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Modularity is great. Unix-like is not about modularity. It's about being like Unix. So, no proper permission model, no security, poor handling of kernel APIs and drivers...

It's for a reason that the worst filesystems all tend to be made by Microsoft.

But because they're made by Microsoft, they are the most compatible however.

"So, no proper permission model, no security, poor handling of kernel APIs and drivers..." Pretty much everything Unix has is not in Unix?

<i​ty:itycodes.org> I don't really think that that's the case? Most of it is windows design choices which to be fair aren't that bad for desktop usage.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Unix has none of that lol

I tried Windows as a desktop before, it's not workable at all.

Very confusing OS.

"Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." – Henry Spencer

remiliascarlet, why would you buy groceries of all things online? Maybe if you're disabled and don't have relatives or friends to do it for you. But when buying food, you better see the products for yourself before buying.

But when it comes to online stores in general - yea, I pay cash too. Nowadays often can go without registering either, just making an order through the physical office's clerk.

BlueyHealer: Because I have no intention of dragging around 20 kg of uncut meat and 20 boxes of eggs once a month.

Why not do it more frequently?

Because why should I waste more time?

We do stockpile nonperishable things, but not all at once.

Going to the store every other day seems just normal to me.

I simply cut everything up in 30 meals, and then throw it all into the freezer.

Plus you would get fresher things.

It is wild to me that you plan your meals for a whole month)

The thing is, I don't plan.

I simply take out whatever I like to eat for the day. Beef, pork, horse, deer, bear, duck, lamb... With the exception of pork, I prefer to eat them raw or only slightly cooked.

Different mindset, you do you. We prioritize picking out the products by ourselves. So even when the store mom buys meat in moved, she now goes there by tram rather than using delivery.

The great thing about raw is that it's very easy to put in a lunchbox, and go to some cafe to work, and eat there.

But yea, she did start to buy it in advance and freeze. But not for a whole month...

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Slackware wants a word.

Oh yeah, and I enjoy raw eggs too. 1 pack of eggs is for 2 days, so that's 5 eggs a day.

Raw eggs is great as dipping sauce, or by itself to drink. But I prefer to drink blood instead.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> I hate Linux *because* I understand it :)

<i​ty:itycodes.org> That is true, the current Windows is hard to use, but the base it's built on is very solid

Most people who "understand" Linux tend to not understand Unix.

But that's by design. GNU literally means "GNU's Not Unix".

<i​ty:itycodes.org> What does GNU have to do with it

Almost all Linux distro's use GNU userland.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Hurd is a joke heh

<i​ty:itycodes.org> No

There's only a handful that don't.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> GNU provides a small set of utils + a C & C++ toolchain

It's clear to me that not only you don't understand Unix, you neither understand Linux or GNU.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> The rest of the userland is from random projects

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Lol

<i​ty:itycodes.org> I'm bored, so

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Just why do you say that ?

And yes, unlike most people, I did actually read through the source codes of both the Linux kernel and OpenBSD OS before.

Funny how the entirety of OpenBSD is cleaner and smaller than the Linux kernel alone.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Ah yes, *we just dumped a tarball in the tree* kinda cleaner :)

<i​ty:itycodes.org> I do drivers for Linux, I spent countless hours in the source tree.

I was about to ask you if you're going to debunk me again, and you did before I finished my sentence.

Or "deboonq" rather.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> (The way they handle DRM is fun lol)

<i​ty:itycodes.org> With dubious licensing

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Though I mostly do FreeBSD & Linux cuz the OpenBSD folks are, well, theirs lol

"cuz the OpenBSD folks are, well, theirs" Finally a truthful statement.

Although I never had any issues with them before.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Don't you kids have group on reddit, where you can shoot this mind-numbing shit ?

I don't have a Reddit account. Those soyboys banned me long ago.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> I kinda hoped that you would have some actual arguments rather than only trolling, so there's that lol

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Rofl

<c​struct:matrix.org> I use arch by the way.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/fTWiqxgEldoJDqrduqPcuIoz

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Here's an argument for ya.

I'm typically the most prone to getting banned in June for whatever reason.

I don't "understand" Linux either, I just use what is easy and doesn't spy.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> ~~I hope that u don't use Ubuntu~~

I just want my daily driver to not get in the way. Maybe I would change later, as I grow into an enthusiast.

ity, ew no. Right now it's Debian, and looking to maybe change into Endeavour for AUR and newer packages.

I don't care about what Linux distro or BSD OS or Illumos OS or things like Haiku somebody is using, as long as it doesn't spy on you, doesn't deprive you from the right of ownership (so even if it does spy, you can still completely stop it permanently), and gets whichever work you want to get done, anything is fine.

s/Illumos OS/Illumos distro

true

I know that even as my understanding progresses, I would likely be using something botherless for my daily driver, like I do now.

Also my mom would be staying on Linux Mint, I am happy she's not on an EOL Windows, she's happy that her computer got faster and she uses it exactly like she used to.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Ya that sounds good 👍

<i​ty:itycodes.org> I wanted to give debian a try someday. Rn I am on Arch but it's being annoying by deleting kernel drivers and breaking my mastodon instance by updating Ruby lol

The downside of rolling release distro's. Although not as bad as it used to be decades ago, it does still happen that package updates break shit.

I wonder if Endeavour is more stable than Arch, I looked at it for an easier installation.

I even ran CRUX on a ThinkPad X200, and it took me 14 days to compile Qt6's webengine.

Because CRUX is a source-based distro like Gentoo.

ity, I like Debian for being botherless and "just working", but getting fed up with packages being delayed so much.

I saw a video the other day of Windows having had an identity crisis since Windows 8, which I do actually agree with. Because Windows went from a desktop OS to trying to become the next iPad (and by this, forcing desktop users into using a tablet interface too), only to then revert back to being a desktop OS again, but with lots of smartphoneisms, then it suddenly had multiple Linux distro

subsystems (although not installed by default), only to then become AI centric.

is this how men's midlife crisis looks like

BlueyHealer: I used to hate Debian's "let's keep packages ancient until the next major version", but now that I use my own software for half of the stuff I used to use, I don't really care as much anymore.

<c​struct:matrix.org> Bookworm changed all of that

And somebody recently taught me how to remove systemd from Debian, and it's really not hard at all.

And I don't mean things like "just install Devuan", I mean a de-systemd-ified actual Debian installation.

Because unlike Arch Linux, which is so bound to systemd that removing it will destroy the distro, Debian actually uses SysV-init as a fallback in case you delete systemd.

cstruct, what do you mean?

I think they meant the ancient packages part.

IDK, seems the same, aside from essential security fixes.

the most noticeable was the old Java version, which made newer Signal-cli nonfunctional.

I don't use anything that depends on Java, so I don't know how bad that is.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Yea, that's exactly the kinda thoughts that I have

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Arch is not bound to systemd rofl

Well, you have Artix. But Arch packages and much of the AUR have hard dependencies on systemd, so Artix must run their own repositories.

Not saying that Devuan doesn't though.

<i​ty:itycodes.org> Not really? Wdym they have a hard dependency on systemd lol. They package systemd files and not any other init files but that's about it

Maybe that most of the things installed in the system have a systemd unit and not anything else, so that too much extra would have to be written?

BlueyHealer: Or simply don't install any init system-specific files, and only a SysV Init script by default. Or like how Artix Linux does it, by providing init files as separate packages.

So you have a "tor" package, a "tor-openrc", a "tor-runit", and so on.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Wen Monero Offtopic 👮‍♂️

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (Cop emoji, since i cops always have to be a few hrs late)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> But, they were finally getting to the interesting part. How to get rid of systemd 😂

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i cant understand the systemd hate

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> it works just fine

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> most systemd hate is either full paranoia or valid from criticism of its current codebase state (spagetthi)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sapghetti*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> SPAGHTTI*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> SPAGHETTI*

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> "current codebase state (spagetthi)"

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> just like every single big FOSS projects

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> It's a total shitshow, with symlinks to symlinks all over the place.

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> whats the paranoia part about?

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> x.com/zooko/status/1827806015548428565

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Zooko has a point here and he’s very qualified to speak on this subject

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> not really. systemd is complex because it implement a lot of features on top of the init system. It deploy a lot of abstractions over kernel features like cgroup etc... It's not that easy and systemd developer are not incompetent but they suffer from scope creep. The fact that it is both touching low-level kernel and that is written in C doesn't help

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Some people think systemd is incredibly insecure because it doesn't follow the unix philosophy.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and because its monolithic codebase

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> however in practice, systemd is hardly an attack vector as is, and you can disable most of additional components

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I mean. I agree on the fact that systemd could be safer

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> And I’d say it’s not resource efficient and not very modular. And the monolithic code base speaks for itself about that

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> just use rust(jk jk)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> snowman: Must be doing something wrong, as he hasn't been blocked by that zcash dude 😆

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you're kidding but we're talking about the first and most important process, running in userspace, with std available

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i see no reason why rust wouldn't be the best choice here

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> lack of available rust devs to work on it + old active c devs

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> and foundation investing all of its funds on political agendas

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ?

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I also use openbsd whenever there isn’t some large obstacle in the way of getting something done I need to do quickly where security isn’t really a concern for the specific task

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> green energy, diversity, etc etc

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> OpenBSD is really a great project

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no but i mean what foundation

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> linux foundation

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I'm just waiting for someone to suggest to rewrite X-windows in react.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh i see right

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lol

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> javascript detected, opinion rejected

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Wish more people used it as a daily driver. But then again sometimes larger communities fuck things up hahah

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lol last time I discovered openbsd matrix chat I said that it was cool and someone told me *Don't be fooled, the community isn't real*

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> well before rewriting the whole kernel in rust, people should stop this "more distros are welcome" culture

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> a lot of dead ass distros there with no real use case

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I believe in SerpentOS

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> it'll kill arch

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I said

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> it

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> It'll kill Arch Linux

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just use Alpine and call it a day

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i hate it specially when they suggests these things to newcomers

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> specially click bait youtubers

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> "Top 10 distros to pick" "10 distros that you didnt know exist" "niche distros that you must try"

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> "the secret distro that made your mom cheat on your dad"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> when alpine have mainline kernel + kspp with selinux then yeah why not

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I'm probably the only one around using Slackware 😢

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> what is slackware?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Sure, continue to use your backdoor lined Glibc based Linux

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Confirmed.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah yes because mainline kernel + kspp + selinnux means no musl. my bad rav

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> if you have a new hardware and want to get the maximum benefit use fedora

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> if you are unemployed use arch

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> if you want something more stable tan fedora but less up to date, use ubunto

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> if you hate spyware and dont mind waiting a bit for updates, use mint

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> ofc om talking about Desktop

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> if you're autistic use gentoo

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> IMO Gentoo only potable Glibc based distrib (for desktop)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> for real

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> yep, you can choose the amount of bloat (unaudited extra code) you are going to run

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> niche one

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> there is no reason for using elementaryos and zorinos

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> there are no reason for using elementaryos and zorinos

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> RavFX: Potable, as in "Puf Puf, pass"?

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> some people might add manjaro as well

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i like the design

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> of both

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i like b2 spirit bomber

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> do i buy and use one?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I like the idea behind manjaro tbf. Arch is a good basis

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> idea is fine but implementation is a mess

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thx to you i just discovered that elementaryOS was paid

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ig zorinos is too

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> prefer using EndeavorOS over manjaro if I’m using a “just works” arch distro

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i mean if you consider the opportunity cost if i remember the correct term

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Pop OS! deserved eternal respect and gratitude imo. Canonical ubuntu can go die in hell

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> linux mint will die before canonical imo

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> popos did lack way behind because of comic development

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> endeavor has the least corporate influence out of the “just works” distros imo

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i mean, its copy paste of gnome to high degree, but we hoped that its not politically motivated and corrupted to the bone like gnome BOD to pull some weird shenanigans every once in a while

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> but that software lead guy jeremy...

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> kamala harris on steroids

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i got banned from his distro projects matrix, redis or regix i dont remember

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> just for asking:

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> do you have time to work on this when your busy with both popos and cosmic?

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> this is considered offensive:D

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> damn

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> didn't know they were that stupid

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ig we learn everyday

<b​asses:matrix.org> fact

<b​asses:matrix.org> system76 too

<b​asses:matrix.org> basically a hole different company

<b​asses:matrix.org> basically a whole different company

<b​asses:matrix.org> for selling laptops too

<b​asses:matrix.org> need to have it working probably