<s​olar:monero.social> This is wrong, I2P's HTTP proxy handles useragents and much more

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> TCP tunnel, http tunnels

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That's because everyone knows the true and only browser worth using is Cromite

<s​olar:monero.social> Because Java is memory safe and performant, the 2 most important qualities for an overlay network

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> performant.png

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > *loOk guys my tcp socket in Java is memory safe!*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > \> JVM memory consumption: 800MB

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Performant 😂

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Java performant!!!!!

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Meh, only if you use the right flags

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Make the thing in C and it's like an order of magnitude more performant... or two

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Which is exactly what I’m struggling with now

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> good luck

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Thanks m8

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> ASM>C>RUST|C++>GO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JAVA

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Because I have a high core count but low clock speed I have to set different flags for it to perform well than if it had a high clock count and low cores

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I have more respect for C# than Java.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Me too

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> my men

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> C# code is compiled right... It use ton of dependencies (.net) but it run faster

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i believe in you. and unironically wish you to resolve it that sounds tiresome

<s​olar:monero.social> Do you think just using a lower-level language magically makes your software harder?

<s​olar:monero.social> > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> ASM>C>RUST|C++>GO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JAVA

<s​olar:monero.social> Do you think just using a lower-level language magically makes your software faster? That's not how it works...

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> And each part of a selenium grid has different purposes and utilities shit in all different ways like I need a specific 5ghz server for the load balancer which is actually overclocked

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> define harder?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Harder to develop or? I mean, the CPU is hard if you hit it, whatever you run java or c++ code on it, might break some pin if it have pins.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> The less abstration the better

<s​olar:monero.social> *faster, got autocorrected

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > using a lower-level language magically makes your software faster

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Have you ever heard of the story of *CPU Cache, the Aligned* ?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> c++ or rust code are compiled into machine code that are executed by the CPU

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Java get interpreted by the java interpreted (and that later is compiled to run on a CPU) but you have that interpretation step that divide the execution speed by 10 or something

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> ASM->C->Rust->Dart

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> but yeah anyway yes it makes it magically faster

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> c++ or rust code are compiled into machine code that are executed by the CPU

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Java get interpreted by the java interpreter (and that later is compiled to run on a CPU) but you have that interpretation step that divide the execution speed by 10 or something

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I've never used Dart but it sounds cool

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> at least I've never heard people crying about it

<s​olar:monero.social> Both C and Java compilers handles this internally, abstracted away from the user

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Today CPU are totally fine execute bloat and code abstracted by multiple abstration layer, but I still like tight and well optimised code that run directly on the CPU

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Today CPU are totally fine executing bloat and code abstracted by multiple abstration layer, but I still like tight and well optimised code that run directly on the CPU

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It’s great, it basically exists to replace JavaScript and Java

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yk there is a difference between JIT and static compilation right? that the latter is better than the first because the first lacks crucial context right?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Compiled native too

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Javascript was initially invented for the web, you know, you make shit that have to run on platform you won't know existed, it's great for that

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lets go

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> perl?

<s​olar:monero.social> Very few thingd on your computer runs "directly on the CPU", we're up here chilling in userspace 🙂

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I know a guy who once made a Perl script

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> so cute

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Not sure for what that one was for lol, it's old and slow.. I never made perl code, I only know one person (also older than me) that use it.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> what a nice guy

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah not sure what he does now

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I only used it once to get reverse shell

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i think it summarize pretty well the state of the language

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> An application like Monero is compiled and run on the CPU without extra abstraction

<s​olar:monero.social> Yeah, but it's negligible for most things

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> RavFX: enlight him

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/c-vs-java

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> there you 1+ order of magnitude

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Do Dart vs Java

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> anyway, going to diner!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> enjoy rav

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/dart-vs-java

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> edigits is an interesting one

<s​olar:monero.social> These are toy programs, what exactly are they indicative of?

<s​olar:monero.social> I'll stick with the subject of I2P before we derail even further into holy language wars, so I'll challenge you to benchmark I2P against i2pd and share your findings 😉

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> pov: me when I try to benchmark an asynchronous p2p network program.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> (difficulty: impossible)

<j​babb:cypherstack.com> *timeout*

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Personally I stick to the C++ implementation of i2p

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Mainly because it's use less ressources thanks to using a lower level language

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Personally I stick to the C++ implementation of i2p

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Mainly because it's not maintained by a delusional and arrogant team.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> (there is apparently some drama in-between the two team)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Obviously, it's to be expected 😂

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> If you make a thing and I make a thing that use 100x less ressources and run 10x faster you are going to be all over me

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> common sense

<s​olar:monero.social> Why do you think they're delusional and arrogant? And what's this drama about?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> If you make a thing and I make the same thing that use 100x less ressources and run 10x faster you are going to be all over me

<s​olar:monero.social> But does it *really*? 🤔

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> reddit.com/r/i2pd/comments/112ybp8/…t_truths_about_the_java_i2p_project

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> The code will definitively run a lot faster and use a lot less ressources.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Obviously it won't make the other nodes you talk to faster

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> also reddit.com/r/i2p/comments/72d6hd/i2pdmonerokovri_edrama_irc_logs

<s​olar:monero.social> You're right network speed isn't different, and that's kind of my point... this bottlenecks every other performance metric

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> except

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> memory consumption

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Still use less CPU, and less memory by far.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> So you have less of theses consumed by i2p, so it can be consumed by something else useful

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Or you can put i2pd on a more crapier system and have the same network performance

<s​olar:monero.social> As for resource (memory) usage it's really not that different, because what goes into an I2P(d) router's memory?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > So you have less of theses consumed by i2p, so it can be consumed by something else useful

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Completely depends on the number of threads and operating system

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> RavFX:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> its not guarantee as processes are interrupted on a time basis.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/MFDzifHAUzdEjgZUYjXUjEer

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just found a random ressource benchmark!

<s​olar:monero.social> These are blatantly fabricated and nothingburgers, respectively

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> probably

<s​olar:monero.social> I2P devs are chill people, they help each other's implementations

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No sorry I can't believe it. Humans being bros simply don't exist. What are you? some kind happy chappy? I hate people like you that are precious and optimistic.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> \/s

<s​olar:monero.social> This isn't even a benchmark, it's just a "source: trust me"

<s​olar:monero.social> I can't even do that after this guy said floodfilling didn't affect network performance

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> In the case of I2p, there is not only the implementation (language)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> The Java version seam to have a lot more "stuff" in it, while I2pd seam to be the bare minimum

<s​olar:monero.social> The next time I set up an i2pd router I'll benchmark it myself

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Same for me lol, Right now i'm not running any but I was planning to set it up soon™️

<s​olar:monero.social> Yeah I agree I with this, I'm not too fond of Snark or Jetty

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> ❤️ pub.dev/packages/i2p

<k​evino:tchncs.de> who is promoting keystone wallet so much on monero twiiter/ x account ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…4d711264bfc2efb71847118805529001984

<k​evino:tchncs.de> like they keystone wallet haven't fully released monero imtegration

<k​evino:tchncs.de> like they keystone wallet haven't released full monero imtegration yet.

<k​evino:tchncs.de> whats the need to give them quote tweet boosts again when they are in WIP ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> like why are they endorsed so much ? is there an agreement with them , that their products will be endorsed officially ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> that too even before launch

<k​evino:tchncs.de> like why are they endorsed so much ? is there an agreement with official monero account to ,endorse officially ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> Has someone reviewed their products ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> the keystone wallet haven't even released full monero integration yet.

<k​evino:tchncs.de> like why are they endorsed so much ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> was there an agreement with keystone to endorse them officially ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> Has someone even reviewed their products before such endorsement ?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…0a75f9c5dfb89c9f1847126180633772032

<k​evino:tchncs.de> they even have dmed many monero users following their account earlier to market their product. which is ridiculous.

as is always, I'll just stick to monero-cli

<k​evino:tchncs.de> they even have dmed many monero users about their product and they have "officially" started working on monero. This is just ridiculous.

<h​opeful24:matrix.org> Thanks

#monero-dev

<q​uickex:matrix.org> Whatsup fam, wonna know Monero holders better, so besides anonym concept, what do u personally do with XMR? Like accumulate the tokens because u love the project, use it as a payment or whatever. Would be very thankful for answers!

<b​asses:matrix.org> that's not what I'm talking about, check what is the reason why Tor forked Firefox ESR and modified it to fit their threat model and not just recommended proxying firefox through plain Firefox

<b​asses:matrix.org> this paste.i2pd.xyz/?77b8e66d0f366f87#BS…bAjFbRVRqQdf25feRQJ1sBY4mTDVNvs5dxj ?

<b​asses:matrix.org> looks like the dev is back in business zlatinb/muwire 651c9f3

<b​asses:matrix.org> "ser"

<b​asses:matrix.org> sounds scamy

<b​asses:matrix.org> sus, who tweeted about it? where's the transparency on who manages twitter account?

<k​evino:tchncs.de> certainly not playing poker with it 😛. Using xmr even before ever used btc

<q​uickex:matrix.org> heh, waiting you for next game!

<f​ede:xmr.mx> real, i remember i once installed java i2p and it was eating up 20%+ of the CPU, while i2pd has very low utilization

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> did anyone try using graalvm to compile the i2p jar file?

<f​ede:xmr.mx> no

<f​ede:xmr.mx> idk how much it'll help tho

<f​ede:xmr.mx> Java is inefficient by design...

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> NO BAD GOY! Its just le heckin JVM fault!!!

<f​ede:xmr.mx> man, in java you have to create an object, which is a pointer to some data in the heap, for doing literally ANYTHING

<f​ede:xmr.mx> you make gozillions of pointer allocations for the most basic tasks

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I believe in Web Assembly supremacy

<f​ede:xmr.mx> also, AFAIK there can be no Link Time Optimization (LTO) at all, because Java classes are compiled separately... and they are "linked" together at runtime

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yes and i thanks them for that. Makes it easy to load mods on minecraft

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah supreme but still subject to cors policy

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Web issue

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Im talking like non web Web assmbky usage

<f​ede:xmr.mx> in my opinion, it would be better if minecraft was made in C, and mods would be made in LUA or something similar

<f​ede:xmr.mx> like factorio does

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> I saw someone build a minecraft clone in c++

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> There is a Minecraft server written in C++

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> didn't minecraft have an official c++ implementation?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Bedrock version

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It’s written in C or C++ I think

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That's called a modding API. And Minecraft never and will never support such

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> when microshite took over

<f​ede:xmr.mx> Cuberite? it's severely outdated

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> That’s the one

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah well this is like 10 years ago for me

<f​ede:xmr.mx> ugly design choices, blame microsoft, they preferred to implement "muh datapacks"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> real

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Minecraft: Rust edition when?

<f​ede:xmr.mx> MineTest

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Wat

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> MineTest is Rust?

<f​ede:xmr.mx> no, it's C++

<f​ede:xmr.mx> mods are written in LUAA

<f​ede:xmr.mx> mods are written in LUA

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> C# is slower than Java yet every C# game i played is magnitude faster than Minecraft

<f​ede:xmr.mx> isn't C# faster than Java actually?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No this isnt a fallacious argument i swear

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No i checked some benchmark its actually the opposite

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> But memory consumption is way lower obviously

<f​ede:xmr.mx> according to this benchmark, C# is usually faster than Java: benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.ne…/benchmarksgame/fastest/csharp.html

<f​ede:xmr.mx> Though it doesn't mean it's necessary better in all the real world scenarios

<f​ede:xmr.mx> also it depends greatly on how much you optimize the code... the Sodium mod increases minecraft FPS a lot, for example, because minecraft is badly optimized

<f​ede:xmr.mx> i've written a small benchmark (find first 20k prime numbers and append them to an array) in Go, V and Java

<f​ede:xmr.mx> Java: 789ms

<f​ede:xmr.mx> Golang: 338ms

<f​ede:xmr.mx> V: 334ms

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> this is the first time I've heard of the V programming language

<f​ede:xmr.mx> V is kinda similar to Go, but transpiled to C, and it's easier to use C/C++ interop with V

Need to compare it to the pure C implementation

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> vaporware don't worry about it.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…/kyun.host/QaipStTVFzxoifsxkcXWxuRa

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I haven't thought of V in a while. advertised no dependencies, required libc and libcurl? Claimed no memory leaks, even Hello World leaks memory? Claimed memory safety without borrowing or a GC, is unsafe? Claimed transpiling from C to V which worked on all of Doom 3 and then only published partially working og Doom?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Dude claimed it didn't use an AST?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> mawfig.github.io/2022/06/18/v-lang-in-2022.html links to basically all the historical items

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 💀

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> let's not forget they planned on making a web browser from scratch with this language

<f​ede:xmr.mx> this is interesting, let me verify if the bugs are still there

<f​ede:xmr.mx> i've verified that review. Most of the bugs have been fixed. Read here: gist.github.com/duggavo/9b9d4ca3fa52ec5a794d39cff291b8e2

<j​s:nil.im> I'm considering to use Monero to send a friend in Colombia money, but it seems there is no exchange that does XMR -> COP with withdrawal via bank transfer? It seems there isn't even something for BTC -> COP. Anybody got ideas?

<m​odul8:matrix.org> js....start pimping haveno at colombia crypto hangouts

<j​s:nil.im> I'm not in Colombia 😉

<f​ede:xmr.mx> sell XMR for USD somehow, and then find a way to convert these USD to COP (or directly pay with USD... not sure if colombian merchants accept USD)

<j​s:nil.im> Withdrawal to a bank account in COP would be required 😕. Otherwise it makes no sense to use XMR/BTC for this. The reason to begin with is to avoid insane fees.

<b​asses:matrix.org> hawala

<b​asses:matrix.org> but requires trust

<h​opeful24:matrix.org> What mobile monero wallet do ya'll like?

<s​olar:monero.social> Termux and `monero-wallet-cli`

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> Episode 5 of attack of the poisoned outputs has been uploaded. in this one, I talk about a hypothetical cospend attack that could occur to somebody accepting donations in Monero and then using a KYC exchange. to highlight this, I talk about the Canadian Trucker protest in 2022.

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> links: youtube.com/watch?v=Cu2dk78165Y

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> odysee.com/@anti_moonboy:7/AotPO5:7

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> rumble.com/v5j6cod-aotpo-episode-5-…get-an-individual-collecting-d.html

j​s:nil.im there are places where you can walk in and get COP for your XMR (I'm only aware of 3 in major cities, but I can't tell you more to it. To LM times there was XMR->COP via bank transfer, look for @mvlc_trading on telegram, maybe he trades still, I use still a some trader from LM up to this day outside of any plattform.

found his LM profile still online: localmonero.co/user/mvlctrading

<j​s:nil.im> Stack Wallet seems good

<a​mmortel:monero.social> Monerujo

<a​mmortel:monero.social> In a lightning network, if someone claims a channel's old state on the first layer, can other peers than the one who was concerned by that channel point out that it is a false claim?

<j​s:nil.im> Yep. And get the cheater slashed.