<h​ardhatter:monero.social> How’s the research on anonymous account based cryptocurrencies looking as of today?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> haven't heard of any so far

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> might be incompatible

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Super anon

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh you're right

<3​21bob321:monero.social> still cant get over that name "dero"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i like it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Are you one ?

<m​ooshuxs:matrix.org> Have they upgraded XMR yet?

<m​ooshuxs:matrix.org> With new addresses

<m​ooshuxs:matrix.org> I’m a normie

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<p​reland:monero.social> If I run monerod with tx-proxy intentionally set to an address that won’t work (ie a random localhost port), will that prevent it from broadcasting transactions?

<p​reland:monero.social> I would think that it would, right? Otherwise if the tx-proxy is misconfigured or offline, then transactions would be broadcast directly….

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Tx proxy takes --tx-proxy={network},{proxyhost:port}[,noise][,peercount]

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So --tx-proxy=tor,127.0.0.1:9050

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If the proxy is wrong, then it wont have peers

<p​reland:monero.social> As in it shouldn’t be able to sync? Or just make transactions?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sync will be fine

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But it wont broadcast tx that were sent to your rpc port

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It will throw errors like "unable to broadcast transactions. No available connections"

<p​reland:monero.social> Is there any way to see if the tx-proxy is working correctly?

<p​reland:monero.social> (Other than just sending a test transaction)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> sync_info

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You can only have onion peers if the proxy is working

<p​reland:monero.social> Ah ok

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m gonna try and see if I can get it to fail with an incorrect tx-proxy one more time; the past two times I tried it in the last hour just ended up going through without a hitch

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Incorrect tx proxy such as?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> not really possible

<p​reland:monero.social> In my case I used tx-proxy i2p,127.0.0.1:8060 which normally is what I use for i2pd….but I killed i2pd and made sure it wasn’t running

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It connect to onion/i2p nodes over the specified proxy

<p​reland:monero.social> So unless something else happened to show up on that port and also happen to perfectly route I2P packets (in record time might I add)…

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> if the proxy wasnt working, then it cant connect to i2p nodes

<p​reland:monero.social> Also print_cn showed no non clearnet connections

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If there are no i2p nodes in the connections list, then the tx will sit in your local txpool and never be broadcasted

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/Never/reattempt over and over but never succeed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> check sync_info instead of print_cn

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Of the tx was confirmed, then you had i2p peers

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> .. or you mined it yourself 🙃

<p​reland:monero.social> Hadn’t considered the mined it myself possibility lol (though I don’t think it’s likely)

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m going to try to replicate it again in a more sterile environment and see if the holidays are just making me crazy

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Definitely crazy

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dont need a sterile env

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Hi

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Doyou have i2p peers?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No: tx wont be relayed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yes: tx will be relayed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its not technically possible to have i2p peers or to relay a tx to i2p, if i2p is not running

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m currently waiting on it to see what happens; it’s acting weird

<p​reland:monero.social> There’s a significant disconnect between how it is shown on monerod and on the wallets. From the perspective of the wallets, nothing is wrong; not even an error is shown

<p​reland:monero.social> To add even more confusion, this go around I was able to catch the monerod warning about there being no I2P connections—that warning didn’t happen the last two times

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Correct

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> There is nothing wrong from the perspective of the wallet

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> I have made a programming language that compiles to C++ for bounties so I don't have to learn C++

<p​reland:monero.social> Have you actually gotten away with that? That sounds…more difficult than actually biting the bullet and learning c++

<p​reland:monero.social> That’s like something I would pull to get out of learning Python

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> There is no rpc response to tell wallets (especially restricted rpc) whether the node is running a tx-proxy

<p​reland:monero.social> Ok, that makes sense I guess

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Yes, I made the language, Still has to be "finished", I am still reading docs

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> But I have did it

<p​reland:monero.social> Lol

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/bpbOPYEgywNKsHXFUQxJuDov

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Wrong screenshot

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/RUWTpDfiZOPMAQLJXceCGdEM

<p​reland:monero.social> Nice

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> ```asm

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> BITS 64

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> segment .text

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> dump:

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> mov r9, -3689348814741910323

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> sub rsp, 40

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> mov BYTE [rsp+31], 10

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> lea rcx, [rsp+30]

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> .L2:

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> mov rax, rdi

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> lea r8, [rsp+32]

<p​reland:monero.social> I doubt the output would be human-friendly enough to just submit as is, though it can probably give enough boilerplate to fill in the blanks

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Worse case senero I could just decompile the binary

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> into C++

<p​reland:monero.social> I don’t think anyone would want to review that, much less pay for the privilege of reviewing it lol

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> In my point as long as it works, Idk for everyone else

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> In general it was a good project

<p​reland:monero.social> Yeah it’s definitely a good project, especially to learn c++ at an intimate level

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Right

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Now I can technically say I know C++

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> And I know fully know assembly

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/SxPNVFVaPbyItPJsubXSDvHb

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/tViZhYRHuRBUqphFQLXyQYHd

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/RpxsuhrtiRpDiZLLqyLlgpEB

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/ojcJWKSzbkYpAgkDlIrVTdYG

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> github.com/end2endzone/bin2cpp

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Paste code in a pastebin, rip nioc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> +1 loeasy6 please dont paste like that again

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Sorry

<p​reland:monero.social> Well….the transaction went through. I’m not sure what to think now.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If the tx confirmed then it was sent over the specified proxy to an i2p node ....

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> sync_info

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Do you have i2p peers?

<p​reland:monero.social> That’s the funniest part of all: I don’t think there are any I2P peers *period* on stagenet currently

<p​reland:monero.social> So the transaction got sent somehow through clearnet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> sync_info

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^^^

<p​reland:monero.social> Are you asking me to send the output of sync_info?

<p​reland:monero.social> I can do that if necessary

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'm asking you to check it for i2p/onion peers

<p​reland:monero.social> I already did; none

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And the tx was confirmed + youre not mining?

<p​reland:monero.social> Correct

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And your node is printing "unable to broadcast transactios. No available connections"?

<p​reland:monero.social> And as a final sanity check I looked up the transaction hash on an external blockchain explorer and it showed up as good

<p​reland:monero.social> It sent a single warning like that after submitting it yeah

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It should be printing the warning every few mins

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<p​reland:monero.social> Let me turn up my log level and see if I can find something else

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You also have no onion peers, right?

<p​reland:monero.social> Correct

<p​reland:monero.social> Only clearnet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the only thing i can think is that you didnt pass tx-proxy to the node at startup

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I can try to reproduce, but in my experience the tx will stay stuck on the local daemon until connections are established

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m going to list the options out exactly as I had them so you can test it (or more likely, point at one of them and say “ah so that’s what’s happening”): monerod —stagenet —enable-dns-blocklist —out-peers 16 —no-igd —bootstrap-daemon-address auto —no-sync —check-updates disabled —max-concurrency 8 —tx-proxy i2p,127.0.0.1:8060

<p​reland:monero.social> (In case you are wondering as to why some of these are here, I was originally testing adding the tx-proxy to the end of the settings used by the simple mode in monero-wallet-gui)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> --bootstrap-daemon-address is probably overriding tx-proxy

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> --no-sync means that your node isnt going to be the one relaying tx

<p​reland:monero.social> And that would be the reason why

<p​reland:monero.social> Yeah I just wasn’t thinking straight lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> --no-sync puts your daemon in a "not synced" status, snd bootstrap proxies your rpc to another node

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So when your wallet syncs, its asking your node to relay to<>from another node

<p​reland:monero.social> Yeah that’s right

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<p​reland:monero.social> Well ig it’s back to the drawing board (though not as far back as the last 4 times lol)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> if your node was reporting as synced, it _should_ stop using bootstrap.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> --no-sync is an ugly hack to enable "simple mode", which is essentially a random node proxy w/o running a real node locally

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think the problem is bootstrap overriding tx-proxy. Maybe that can be changed so that it still uses tx-proxy even if bootstrap is enabled and active for wallet sync

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Also makes me wonder if --proxy is enabled for bootstrap, or if bootstrap was just completely overlooke for --proxy and --tx-proxy edge cases

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (making bootstrap a "leak")

<p​reland:monero.social> My guess is that it was overlooked or assumed to not be an issue

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> github.com/arcanyx-org/nixium?tab=readme-ov-file#monero-node

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Why is this returning:

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Jan 01 12:22:32 mracek monerod[3579345]: 2025-01-01 12:22:32.108 W Unable to send transaction(s), no available connections

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Jan 01 12:29:17 mracek monerod[3579345]: 2025-01-01 12:29:17.493 W Unable to send transaction(s) to tor - no suitable outbound connections at height 3315728

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Using tx-proxy?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> huh?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> sounds like your tor daemon is down or falling to connect to onions

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> github.com/Arcanyx-org/NiXium/blob/…ines/mracek/services/monero.nix#L40

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> ^ tx-proxy line

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> tor is up i am connecting to the server over it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> `./monerod sync_info`

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Also, why are you hardcoding this?? ` "anonymous-inbound=yobndiqy7b5umy434mhvj2u7zttr2ro2nshybrmu3c354qqykqtc7pid.onion:18083,${config.services.monero.rpc.address}:18083,64" # Advertise the onion service for an inbound requests`

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> [root@mracek:/var/lib/tor/onion/monero-p2p]# /nix/store/kx0vkg86azrbvs6rnk34akf5bvkjc7sx-monero-cli-0.18.3.4/bin/monerod sync_info

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:17:46.116 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.4-unknown)

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Error: Unsuccessful -- json_rpc_request:

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> ikr

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> shouldn't i be hardcoding this?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Oh

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> (cuz it was pain in the ass to anonymize over infra as code and people here told me it's fine since it's what the node uses to communicate with others)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> `monerod --rpc-login username:pass sync_info`

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> [root@mracek:/var/lib/tor/onion/monero-p2p]# /nix/store/kx0vkg86azrbvs6rnk34akf5bvkjc7sx-monero-cli-0.18.3.4/bin/monerod --rpc-login "Monerochan:iL0VEMoNeRoChan<3" sync_inf

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> o

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:23:40.656 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.4-unknown)

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Error: Unsuccessful -- json_rpc_request:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If that onion is on your host and youre the only one using this code, sure

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> `monerod --rpc-login username:pass --log-level 1 sync_info`

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> it's public note that's not advertising as public node

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> and the onion is on the host

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> [root@mracek:/var/lib/tor/onion/monero-p2p]# /nix/store/kx0vkg86azrbvs6rnk34akf5bvkjc7sx-monero-cli-0.18.3.4/bin/monerod --rpc-login "Monerochan:iL0VEMoNeRoChan<3" --log-level 1 sync_info

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:25:45.508 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.4-unknown)

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:25:45.583 I Generating SSL certificate

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:25:48.402 W SSL peer has not been verified

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:25:48.402 W SSL peer has not been verified

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:25:48.496 E RPC call of "sync_info" returned error: -32601, message: Method not found

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Error: Unsuccessful -- json_rpc_request:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> `monerod status`?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> `cuprated status` ?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 025-01-01 13:31:19.327 W SSL peer has not been verified

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:31:19.420 I Failed to invoke http request to /mining_status, wrong response code: 404

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Error: Problem fetching info-- rpc_request:

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Height: 3315753/3315753 (100.0%) on mainnet, mining info unavailable, net hash 3.49 GH/s, v16, 0(out)+0(in) connections

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> `cuprated status` ? (this is a joke)

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> it's tor-only node that's not allowed to contact clearweb btw

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> this worked without issues up until 4 days ago btw

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> What's cuprated

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Soon™️

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> github.com/Cuprate/cuprate oooo

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Rust version

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Version with crabs

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> rust all the things

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Well wut did u change 4.1 days ago?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 0 out, 0 in connections

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> literally nothing the whole system is bit by bit the same

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> (checked)

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> huh

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 3315761 is the current block height

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Ctrl alt defeat

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Youre 8 blocks behind

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> oh it works now wtf

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> _Shane restarted tor_

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> i restarted it like 6 times in the last 7 hours

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> also no i restarted monero, tor has uptime of 19 days rn

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Mebbe isp doesnt like tor

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> nah ISP likes Tor since they don't have to deal with authorities asking them for data

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So you restarted monerod and all of a sudden you have connections now?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> i restarted monero like 6 times before and it didn't do anything, i restarted it now and it works

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> sync_info works now? You have both clear and onion peers?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:54:09.837 W SSL peer has not been verified

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 2025-01-01 13:54:09.931 E RPC call of "sync_info" returned error: -32601, message: Method not found

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> Error: Unsuccessful -- json_rpc_request:

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> 🤔

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> i have onion connection on the wallet that is syncing and reports all good so far

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> doesn't work in stack on android though

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> is the rpc port unchanged?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> unchanged how?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> rpc-bind-port is the default 18081?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> yes

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> The node had uptime of 8 months near 99% up until 4 days ago with me changing nothing to clarify

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I have no idea why your node is failing to respond to sync_info or giving weird responses to status

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> > Jan 01 13:57:56 mracek tor[88873]: Jan 01 13:57:56.000 [notice] Closed 1 streams for service [scrubbed].onion for reason resolve failed. Fetch status: No more HSDir available to query.

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> I guess Tor fucked itself 🤔

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I get those tor errors all the time when my route is no-good

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> tor ppl told me that this happens when the tor daemon runs for too long to then fix that by clearning state file

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> iirc

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> though that doesn't seem to affect the responses from monerod

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> it seems to work now though so maybe tor-induced fail.. and maybe the rpc errors are due to the node not being able to contact clearweb?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The rpc errors dont make sense. Are you using `--restricted-rpc` flag?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> github.com/Arcanyx-org/NiXium/blob/…/mracek/services/monero.nix#L32-L47 doesn't seem like it

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> restricted-rpc=1

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> oh i do.. nix upstream puts that there for some reason

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> github.com/Arcanyx-org/NiXium/blob/…ines/mracek/services/monero.nix#L15

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> oh nwm i do restrict it

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> so basically fuck tor ruining my uptime

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> _bumps priority for i2p higher_

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You could omit restricted-rpc and instead set

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> rpc-restricted-bind-ip=0.0.0.0 rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> is that a good idea? I have like "prevent unsafe RPC calls" though i don't remember why i put it in there :D

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> _pretty sure someone here told me to do that and claimed this as the rationale_

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> getmonero.dev told u that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its only unsafe if youre exposing the endpoint to the internet

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> arent i doing that?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> you shouldnt

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Leave it local(default)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> create a _new_ restricted bind to expose

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Though you dont have to expose the bind-ip to 0.0.0.0 if you want it to be onion-only

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Never heard anyone actually discuss here if there was any merit to dero’s account based implementation. I imagine it’s somewhere in MRL logs. Haven’t looked into it myself but I’m kinda curious. Was hoping someone else did and could comment on it before I dive into reading exactly what the implementation is.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Anyway I thought there was maybe other progress made outside of dero for account based anonymous crypto

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> iirc Kaya has spoken pretty in-depth about the drawbacks of account model on dero

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> that's just for local comms right

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> ig i will enable that only for debugging then

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> just remove restricted-rpc from the config, and add rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Then change your onion from 18081 > 18089

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> why not just use the 18081

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> if youre the only one using the onion, sure. But if the onion is known by your peers (same onion for anon inbound) then a bad actor can delete your block chain or start mining remotely

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> it's public node

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 18081, left unrestricted, should only be accessible by you, preferably on the localhost

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Hmm i wonder if there parts of it that can be used repurposed though. Like there’s almost certainly going to be drawbacks or loss of features by switching to an account based model but the scalability will likely make it worth it.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> If there’s a fundamental privacy vulnerability that can’t be over come then that’s another story

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dero isnt open source

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> How can kaya comment on its core implementation if he didn’t have the source code? Putting aside the bug he found that I’m guessing was in a part of the code that is open source for users

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> thanks for help btw <3

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> It looks like it is open source. the source code is available on its website and on GitHub

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Source available != open source

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> github.com/deroproject/derohe/blob/main/LICENSE

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Without an explicit open source license, its technically not open source and cannot be used.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> dero has a license, and its neither pernissive or copyleft. Research-only

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> that's some weird af license

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> > BY CLICKING ON THE YES BUTTON BELOW OR USING THE TECHNOLOGY, YOU ARE ACCEPTING AND AGREEING TO ABIDE BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS LICENSE. YOU MUST BE AT LEAST 18 YEARS OF AGE AND OTHERWISE COMPETENT TO ENTER INTO CONTRACTS.

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> mkay

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> smart contracts? My friend lost 3M EUR on those recently using BTC

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Im 13. Cant accept

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> more like the multiple accounts of legal malpractice in that statement

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> is there actually anyone who didn't get fucked over on smart contracts? I know a lot of people who do crypto and lot of them did

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> from my point of view it seems that people make these implementations with some hidden vulnerability that they then abuse to collect liquidity

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> though might be a BTC thing

I don't evwn understand what a smart contract is lol. Only heard by proxy and all the ways it was used in were cringe. Is that associated with any fees?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> afaik it's supposed to be a crypto replacement for stock exchange

as if people didn't decide to use currencies themselves as stocks already lol

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> tbf i would be very happy to use good implementation of cryptostock

I never got fucked on smart contracts.

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> on BTC?

Or any other.

My trick is:

I never used any.

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> did you actually even were able to claim liquidity or do you just watch number on the screen?

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> ...

<x​g9tdwhng23fpd2:midov.pl> smh

Then again, I got fucked on shitcoins in my day :D That's how you learn...

Tomorrow's newcomers will get fucked on whatever newfangled shit is the rage then, and you won't.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> losing 3M EUR to a smart contract puts your friend barely in the top 100.. they'd be ranked 165~ rekt.news/leaderboard

Look where you put your fingers, and use take time to apply common sense before doing anything. That gets you out of most "get fucked" scenarios.

But that's experience.

The "take time to" part is especially important.

And sure, you'll also miss some lucky breaks. Shrug.

Man. The 3M number just percolated through the fog to my brain. Ouch...

Anyway. House of cards made out of think slices of sugar built on sand on the beach on a windy day. Maybe someday someone will start building them in rebar concrete.

Still amazes me how many years this neverending shitstream of "Foocoin, built to trade foo" obvious bullshit lasted. What they say about markets staying irrational longer than you can stay solvent...

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> nope

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Source available = open source

There is a simple test to see if a crypto project is worthwhile or not. "Does it have a reason to be crypto rather than a simple database on the organizers' servers?"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Dero is just NOT FREE and open source

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 😆

syntheticbird, but =/= foss

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> Happy new years!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> BlueyHealer yes, open source =/= FOSS. Kayabanerve repeated it number of time on twitter, he isn't contributing because it is not FOSS

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> you know damn well that you meant foss

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> wat?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> when you said "source available != open source", you meant "source available != FOSS"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you said not me

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i wonder if kewbit will believe that were not the same person if we talk to yourself enough

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yourself you mean.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> you two are always finishing each others

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> myself

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> we three are always finishing each others you mean

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I mean depending on where you live, it’s not copyright infringement if you don’t use it for non-commercial purposes. So if dero actually had anything useful in its design it really doesn’t matter if it’s copied or modified without permission.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Also fuck copyright lmfao

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sure, if you dont give a shit you can also just decompile proprietary apps and steak whatever you want

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or use gpl code inside of your proprietary antminer x5

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats a triple negative. Confused the hell out of me. Plz rephrase

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "_not_ copyright infringement if you _don't_ use it for _non_ commercial purposes"

<l​oeasy6:matrix.org> My programming language now compiles to C as well

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I mean depending on where you live, it’s not copyright infringement if you use it for non-commercial purposes. So if dero actually had anything useful in its design it really doesn’t matter if it’s copied or modified without permission.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Also fuck copyright lmfao

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Edited. my bad.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Are you specifically referring to dero's research license?

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Speaking generally but wouldn’t it apply to that license ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> > Subject to the conditions contained herein, Licensor grants to You a non-exclusive, non-transferable, worldwide, and royalty-free license to do the following for Your Research Use only:

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> > "Research Use" means research, evaluation, or development for the purpose of advancing knowledge, teaching, learning, or customizing the Technology for personal use. Research Use expressly excludes use or distribution for direct or indirect commercial (including strategic) gain or advantage.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Well that’s what I mean. It says that but it’s not going to be enforced in many places

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If a project doesnt have a foss* license, its not foss

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> And the case would immediately get thrown out if he sued. so who cares.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And in most places, a project lacking a license would be considered non-free

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe in a court of Beijing where xmrig tried to sue bitmain

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But in any place where foss licenses are respected, yes youd be guilty of infringing

Who cares? I do. You respect my license, I respect yours. Tit for tat. In force since the last ice age or even longer, since we descended from trees

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Speak for yourself, i never descended /s

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> just because someone has a lemonade stand in public, doesnt mean the lemonade is free, not is the recipe.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> just because i post it online, doesnt give you the right to take it as your own.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> there will always be thieves, and always be people who don't want to share

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I mean personally, I don’t put anything online for anyone to see that I’d have a problem with other people using however they wanted.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I may hesitate to copying someone’s code exactly but if it’s the best solution at the moment , idrc, i’m gonna use it, how ever I want

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And that makes you a shit person 💯

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> It’s knowledge. It’s not an exhaustible resource

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And people like you are why people keep their stuff proprietary

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I keep my ip to myself too

Maybe that hard hat sits a bit too hard? :)

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> Intellectual property

If somebody dropps some bills at the supermarket checkout counter in front of me I will snatch it. As soon as it touched the floor it became public property.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> When you take someone’s money or physical property they don’t have access to it any more.

do I have access if I have a $5 wrench?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Copyright law is a double edged sword. On the bright side, it makes FOSS/open-source licensing enforceable.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> When you use knowledge from someone else they still have the ability to use that knowledge themselves

Yeah, but maybe in a very diminished way. The difference is then like stealing cold hard cash. IMHO

<s​iren:kernal.eu> There's nothing good about patents though

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> fuck code patents

I think on that we can agree :)

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> I just generally don’t want other people to do what I tell them to involuntarily. And I don’t follow the demands of other people.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> If we’re not getting violent or directly interfering with each others activities then there shouldn’t be a problem.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You really like compounding negatives :)b

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You mean

Other assholes put info about me out there, without me wanting to. Honestly, I'd like there to be a law against that type of shit.

(one that includes hard time, not just "pay back 10% of your profit as a fine")

I think "laws" are not supposed to be a thing in those hard-hatting scenarios ...

A scam that is btw. Eve fucks Alice, Govt gets paid for it...

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> When you live in a system that revolves around civil laws I get that you gotta play the game to make movement

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> But that doesn’t mean you have to stay in that system

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> as long as you like getting your legs broken, ig

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ppl that want to play outside of the law, shouldnt whine when the ppl they steal from also play outside of the law

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not everyones moral compas points in the same direction, but you shouldnt dish out what you cant take

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If you want to be an outlaw, you shouldnt expect anyone else to be a law abiding citizen

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> If I’m not willing to fight them over it my self then it’s probably not worth threatening someone with violence at all. I don’t want some goons fighting for me.

<h​ardhatter:monero.social> But also I just don’t care about matters like that example you gave. I wouldn’t fight someone over that

<c​rypto.neko:frei.chat> wait WTF is this room

<c​rypto.neko:frei.chat> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…/frei.chat/NJauQMacbwtwRAanxzidVaTf

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The server is fkd

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> -dev did that for me too

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The room name was likely removed for you

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> this is #monero:monero.social

<c​rypto.neko:frei.chat> Why?

<c​rypto.neko:frei.chat> Oh, I see!

I want to go into moner-pools but it says Im banned?

<y​atta:private.coffee> I'm also banned.

<y​atta:private.coffee> #Monero-pools got moved from libera to... Rizon. I was told. Am still learning weechat trying to confirm

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-pools on libera was killed

<r​oot:kimapr.net> o, rizon? i happen to have connected to that one for other reasons, what a coincidence