<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> Any good alternative for samourai wallet for processing tainted btc?

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> rub it in kim chi

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> rub it in kimchi

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Can't you just swap it for Monero and call it a day?

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> Well what if I am receiving tainted btc as a monero seller?

<c​t:xmr.mx> if the risk of receiving tainted btc in you use case is high, then only accept xmr and make the swap the buyers problem

<c​t:xmr.mx> alternatively price it it, and ask for much more btc value then xmr value. If you have a unique produced/service you can also increase prices overall, and offer a steep discount on buying with xmr.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Perhaps you could buy into XMR on RetoSwap, which since it's a p2p exchange, your counterparties are much less likely to enact automatic, opaque KYC/AML regimes. And if they do, you can open a dispute

<b​rick:tchncs.de> Best place to buy XMR with AUD?

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Either Reto Swap for P2P, or buy LTC on a regular CEX and swap it for Monero on a swap service like Trocador.

CEX would ask for KYC so utterly unacceptable

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fly to Dubai, buy any coin for cash as much as you want

<b​asses:matrix.org> u sure they dont require KYC?

<m​mxxx:monero.social> it would be a p2p transaction in person

<m​mxxx:monero.social> and no, there would be no kyc with cash

<m​mxxx:monero.social> dubai is the money laundering capital of the world

<m​mxxx:monero.social> they barely conduct checks when people purchase property

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1izhfp…ro_as_if_peoples_lives_depend_on_it

<e​longated:matrix.org> Yes

I wonder how big the purchase would have to be? On our exchange aggregator, the minimum amount in cash was enormous, like $1000 minimum :(

And even then at least some I checked did require KYC.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Spam

<e​longated:matrix.org> A few million

what?

there's always someone who will do it sans kyc

<e​longated:matrix.org> Yes, you can buy without kyc ; bring in big suitcases

<e​longated:matrix.org> If you have right contacts you can do it in your city

<e​longated:matrix.org> 1-2% premium to handle cash

<m​mxxx:monero.social> ^

I do buy in cash from a contact. And there indeed is a slight premium. I just mean that I have not seen global offers for, say, $50.

<m​mxxx:monero.social> oh, $50...

<e​longated:matrix.org> Nobody is interested in $50 trades

i've never checked at that price point

<b​asses:matrix.org> source?

<e​longated:matrix.org> First hand experience

<b​asses:matrix.org> any p2p in person will not have kyc

you checked openmonero?

that's what i said, offer cash in person and there's no need for kyc

<b​asses:matrix.org> the scam?

but that depends on where you are

is it a scam?

what makes it so?

<b​asses:matrix.org> localmonero scam clone

it's a clone, doesn't make it a scam

<b​asses:matrix.org> cex or p2p?

p2p

it's a needed platform

<b​asses:matrix.org> hi kewbit

it's not as if the person behind it hid where he took the design from, they gave credit

<e​longated:matrix.org> It’s centralized, it’s not a online exchange; physical offices; so you can say p2p

<elongated:matrix.org> Nobody is interested in $50 trades <- But this is the volume normal poor people would use Monero at! So there is demand.

<b​asses:matrix.org> oh, yes

<e​longated:matrix.org> Go sell goods n services for $50

sell your ass

$100, easy

You are absolutely disgusting.

;)

Also women suffer in such types of jobs, y'know? This is kind of insensitive to jokingly offer.

who said anything about women?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Men suffer too

Men are the ones who exploit them for their sick pleasure.

<b​asses:matrix.org> /html >recommends openmonero

But whatever, anyway. I was lucky to have found $50 offers, but I have not seen such on aggregators.

have you used openmonero basses?

<b​asses:matrix.org> no

<b​asses:matrix.org> I don't use scams

oi vey

it's not a scam if it's a legitimate service

it's a clone that you do not like

it's not the same thing

hashem | who said anything about women? <- btw why do you just assume everyone in the chat is men?

i don't care what gender anyone is

it's all the same to me

ok this was just about a particular remark. Sure, whatever.

hashem that guy's lies about other platform makes it a scam and illustrates he's not capable of maintaining such a site

NorrinRadd: what did he lie about?

calling every other platform a scam / centralized / not secure / java is spyware, all types of crazy shit that any competent dev would never say

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> right, it's ridiculous! No one would use Java for a spyware, it would be instantly detected through the gigabytes of garbage collection

This is an incorrect thought process. Consider:

No one would use Windows for a spyware, it would be instantly detected through the gigabytes of garbage.

And yet...

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ouch you are right

<m​mxxx:monero.social> you lost me

<e​longated:matrix.org> Rucknium: new dsa will keep effecting ring size high, even during spam attacks ?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> elongated: "effecting" == "effective", I assume. Even a good DSA cannot overcome a black marble spam attack. My estimate of the suspected attack's impact on effective ring size last year assumed that there were no problems with the DSA (in reality, there are problems with the current DSA): github.com/Rucknium/misc-research/b…ro-Black-Marble-Flood/pdf/monero-bl<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> ack-marble-flood.pdf

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Increasing the nominal ring size could be an effective countermeasure: github.com/Rucknium/misc-research/b…ck-marble-optimal-fee-ring-size.pdf

<r​ucknium:monero.social> In theory, if you had an "oracle" DSA that could someone completely avoid black marbles, then that would help. But I don't see a feasible way to create something like that. The adversary would be able to see the exclusion criteria in the open source code anyway, and devise their own counterstrategy.

<e​longated:matrix.org> So we need new dsa + a ring size bump for a higher effective ring-size during black marble spam attack.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Now that fcmp actual mainnet is a year+ away, we should start prepping for HF ?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Is xmr a sitting lame duck with current dsa ?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> When I brought up a possible hard fork last year, there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for it in #MRL

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I mean, a posisble hard fork to increase nominal ring size and deploy the OSPEAD-derived DSA

<e​longated:matrix.org> Yes bcoz fcmp was a low hanging fruit at that time ? Now that it’s far away and anyone with your report can do better chain analysis of xmr with current dsa.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Would you personally still like a HF or wait for fcmp ?

fcmp is getting closer, not further away

it was never low hanging fruit, however it generally considered to be the solution

<e​longated:matrix.org> 18months minimum

<e​longated:matrix.org> Effective ringsize without black marble attack was presumed to 16 , now it’s 4 ?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fcmp was 12-15 months away at that time

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The other issue last year was that the spam incident uncovered performance issues with Monero nodes. And with larger ring size, the stress could be higher. But we ran a stressnet to track down some of the performance bottlenecks

<e​longated:matrix.org> And the time away is still same

<e​longated:matrix.org> Bottlenecks are fixed now ? Can handle higher ringsize? Bigger txs like fcmp would too

doesn't matter, it's code complete and passing audits. just audits & integration at this point.

& HF

in fact it was code complete earlier than i expected it

<e​longated:matrix.org> Code is complete? Where is this testnet?

not integrated yet

<e​longated:matrix.org> Do we want another 15-18 months of user transaction to be vulnerable ? Or you want to push a half baked fcmp without comprehensive audits and testing ? Just to rush a release bcoz we never hf for dsa/increased ring size

<e​longated:matrix.org> Push better dsa + bump ringsize; give breathing room for fcmp development

hf for ring size change is not worth it imo. too close to fcmp

too many HFs back to back is not good for the ecosystem.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Not worth ? It’s a requirement for privacy lol

Remember seraphis?

Ledger has to update. Trezor has to update. the 3 CEXs have to update. all wallets have to update.

just not worth it

<e​longated:matrix.org> What is too many ? It can be done in 6 months and fcmp in 18months ; that is not too many

<r​ucknium:monero.social> There are a few more complications

<r​ucknium:monero.social> libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20240529#c382452

<r​ucknium:monero.social> libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20240529#c382463-c382464

Hard forks work surprisingly smoothly - they just expose the garbage services

<e​longated:matrix.org> Previous one was even duh

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I don't know the status of RPC and p2p operations blocking each other in the CPU. AFAIK, there were a few fixed proposed and/or implemented after the stressnet.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The more efficient tx broadcasting proposal is here: monero-project/monero #9334

<r​ucknium:monero.social> 0xfffc planned to work on it, but I don't know the current status. It would need a lot of testing because it's an essential node function.

<e​longated:matrix.org> ^that doesn’t need consensus ? and can be implemented later on

<e​longated:matrix.org> The time we are taking to release 0.18.4.0 ; imagine the time for fcmp+wallets 😅

<e​longated:matrix.org> HF asap with new dsa + nominal ringsize increase and bring back some lost trust

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Another complication is that OSPEAD doesn't work as well on a dynamic real spend distribution, compared to a static one. The "S" in OSPEAD stands for "static". I performed my final estimates based on a static distribution of aggregated behavior for all weeks Aug 2022 to Oct 2024. The fitted new DSA would reduce attack success on that static distribution to 7.6%, compared to the st<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> atus quo attack success of 23.5%. I estimated it on the static distribution because I assumed that it would be deployed with FCMP, which basically would have a static distribution to attack.

<b​asses:matrix.org> old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1i…ro_as_if_peoples_lives_depend_on_it

<b​asses:matrix.org> Erc is back

<e​longated:matrix.org> Spam don’t report

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I don't have final results for this, but IIRC when I was testing outthe OSPEAD-derived DSA against a dynamic real spend distribution (i.e. the distribution changes every week, the attack success was about 11%. I created animated plots to visualize how much the distribution changes from week to week: rucknium.github.io/OSPEAD/CCS-miles…-2/OSPEAD-docs/_book/real-spend-vis<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> ualization.html#animations

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It's harder to hit a moving target

<e​longated:matrix.org> So new dsa is actually designed for fcmp ? Can it still give better effective ringsize if we bump nominal ringsize

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Or, well, when your shield needs to be stationary and the target is moving, then the shooter can hit the target more easily because the target moves beyond the shield sometimes.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Spam don’t repost

<e​longated:matrix.org> Is it a lost cause ? Should we go back to using physical cash?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> elongated: You can easily calculate the effect of a different nominal ring size on the attack success probability by changing the `M` exponent in equation 12.1 here: rucknium.github.io/OSPEAD/CCS-miles…tric-fit.html#eq-map-decoder-simple

<b​asses:matrix.org> well... Monero is doing great on dev and research side, just lacks about everything other than that. Rather than complaining, we can be more transparent about the issues we faced and try to prevent same issues from happening in the future. Also, refresh repos and organize it. We can ask for help with a Reddit post etc.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Did I forget to define `M` in that equation? Anyway, `M` is the number of decoys in a ring.

<e​longated:matrix.org> That should a reply there on Reddit ? Not here?

<b​asses:matrix.org> I can't use Reddit

<b​asses:matrix.org> >A well motivated journalist can kill Monero and make it untouchable for regular folks by simply digging into it. There are enough shady situations to make super easy to distrust the project. A few notable examples:

<b​asses:matrix.org> Also not true, (they) already giving Monero a bad press with reporting about only "bad usecases" of Monero when a large of it is not as you can see from the community engaging in normal activities.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Well they can frighten away actual monero users with technical details like effective ringsize of 4 and some fud about core and stuff or how some community members don’t want to HF and are compromised; just more research and has a nice article backdrop can be fluffy story lol

<e​longated:matrix.org> Title : Monero is Compromised

<b​asses:matrix.org> that would have been a straight FUD article

<e​longated:matrix.org> Sure

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Just a quick news: I am running extremely behind schedule! My sincere apologies, there has been going on alot in my personal life recently.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> 0xfffc: That's totally fine :)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It wasn't given a specific priority at the time that you volunteered to do it :)