<b​asses:matrix.org> even with all these hacks bybit is not the first hack they have done

<b​asses:matrix.org> and not the last

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> For those uninformed, let me be clear: Don’t get your hopes up for Serai. Luke Parker will never release it, and it’s highly unlikely he will.

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> Even if the audits succeed, there’s so much more that needs to be done, including the frontend and JSON-RPC for nodes. He has a history of scamming people, as demonstrated by his coin, MerosCrypto. He created and heavily promoted it with interviews similar to Serai, only to disappear without a trace and abandon the project. Does this sound familiar?

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> MerosCrypto, abandoned by Luke Parker:

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5129084.0

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> The delay in releasing the audits, despite their completion, raises serious concerns. There's been a lack of transparency. We need to approach Luke Parker with caution moving forward. The Monero community is experiencing a concerning pattern of mismanagement, and we need greater accountability.

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> The delay in releasing the audits, despite their completion, raises serious concerns. There's been a lack of transparency. We need to approach Luke Parker with caution moving forward. The Monero community is experiencing a concerning pattern of mismanagement, and we need greater accountability.

<t​hetruth:nope.chat> jpthor was right!

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> something smells bad in here. Did someone fart?

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> oh maybe its this thorchain truther that just entered the chat

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 1) I have no idea why that's there. I'd most guess it's due to a recent tweet from someone in the THORChain community but it may be someone who harasses me for other reasons. I apologize for the spillover into a Monero room

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 2) Meros was no ICO, no premine, no donations so it couldn't have been a scam

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 3) What completed audits specifically am I being accused of withholding? I announced today a review came back and at the time, the authors had yet to publish it. Is it seriously the review I was only sent today I'm being accused of withholding? For the grand period of 14h since I was made aware of it??

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> no need to apologize. Not your fault that crazy people do crazy stuff. :D

<f​areve:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:matrix.orgwhy did you mention thor-chain????

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> >jpthor was right!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Hmmm

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> Can anybody explain to me why on bisq there are sellers selling btc at a discount?

maybe it's high risk btc, with high aml score?

if the other currency is xmr, perhaps it's not a "discount". checked haveno.markets?

knownsec:

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> This doesn't make sense, selling your btc for some sketchy source fiat

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> And I think it is bank transfer

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> This doesn't make sense, selling your btc for some sketchy source fiat, there are way better deals to swap your btc to xmr

sorry, i mentioned the wrong nick

like rotten said, maybe it's lazarus

lots of dirty btc out there right now

<r​une:nope.chat> Due to the tainted nature of the BTC, it’s impossible to sell it on centralized exchanges if the source is questionable. These exchanges will freeze your account and demand to know the source of the funds. If the BTC was stolen by Lazarus, they won’t be able to answer this question, so they sell it at a discount and launder it through fiat.

<r​une:nope.chat> Converting XMR to fiat is significantly more difficult than converting BTC to fiat, given the amount of $ held by Lazarus.

<r​une:nope.chat> Does anyone know if Dr. Daniel Kim is still involved in the Monero community and if he participates in any events?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> He recently sponsored the upcoming [Monero Konferenco](monerokon.org) from [his company](sweetwater.consulting). Not sure if he will attend physically but yes he is involved.

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> Is there anyway to check the trading volume on bisq / haveno? I don't think its trading volume is enough for helping launder those national level hack

not_a_money_printer the volume is at haveno.markets I believe

lack of liquidity is probably why they swapped to btc in the first place. at the minimum, at least it's permissionless

<r​une:nope.chat> markets.bisq.services for Bisq.

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> Thanks

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> The volume is surprisingly huge

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> And people are trading at a pretty absurd premium

<r​une:nope.chat> Monero has the highest volume at $3,654,854 the past couple days, which was actually quite surprising. Bitcoin’s volume is much lower, and it’s clear they aren’t laundering everything through Bisq. But perhaps some.

<e​longated:matrix.org> You underestimate the pain of holding tainted corn

not_a_money_printer absurd how? sold out everywhere else

w/ the added benefit of no kyc

rune yeah it's being gobbled up everywhere it seems

<r​une:nope.chat> Monero has the highest volume at $3,654,854 the past week, which was actually quite surprising. Bitcoin’s volume is much lower, and it’s clear they aren’t laundering everything through Bisq. But perhaps some.

<r​une:nope.chat> You can look at all the pairs here: markets.bisq.services/markets

it's leading searches on orangefren.com also

isn't most of bisq's volume normally monero?

<r​une:nope.chat> NorrinRadd: I’m pretty shocked that eXch raised their static fee to 5.5% and the exchange still has millions of USD in volume for buying XMR. Other pairs or selling XMR only have a 1% static fee in comparison.

<n​ot_a_money_printer:matrix.org> Just curious how does these exchange rid of their millions of tainted coin

how can monero have higher volume than btc on bisq when all bisq trades have to be half btc?

<r​une:nope.chat> Confiscated tainted coins?

"tainted" is subjective. how far back do you want to go? at some point, some exchange goes "that doesn't fit our definition of tainted"

NorrinRadd: I have never used bisq but this is what people say

they must mean, excluding btc

tainted is a sliding scale, you get a score for your btc

where do they draw the line?

it's all bullshit, so they can draw the line wherever they want to

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> In the sand

where it kya

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> depends who's asking. If you withdraw coins to bisq or a mixer, coinbase might close your acct

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> I think they mean the XMR/BTC pair does more volume than, frankly, all the other pairs combined

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> coinpaprika.com/exchanges/bisq

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If mexc, i doubt they are paying attn to what you do after wd

rune exch competitors might be sold out though. and also, not as popular, so not competing on equal footing

Macy's charges more for the same clothes that Marshall's is selling as well

I had a few minutes free, now back to being cat servant :D

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Exch isnt the largest xmr swapper

<r​une:nope.chat> What swapper is the largest?

<r​une:nope.chat> Kraken?

"swapper"

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> prolly KuCoin if you include traditional exchanges like Kraken

<r​une:nope.chat> I'm curious about how Serai will impact swap service fees. To remain competitive, they'll likely need to reduce fees to 0.5% or lower.

<r​une:nope.chat> @tobtoht:monero.social Is it possible to include some Serai frontend in Feather Wallet?

<r​une:nope.chat> I know Cake Wallet will have their own.

<t​obtoht:monero.social> rune: not planned.

<r​une:nope.chat> It’s probably best to keep everything separate, as maintenance will become more difficult.

<r​une:nope.chat> Serai will be its own blockchain network.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Probably changenow, fixedfloat or, surprisingly, changelly

<r​une:nope.chat> All KYC...

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> none of those are kyc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They arent "never kyc", but they also arent default kyc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kraken and kucoin are kyc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I wouldnt recommend changelly to my worst enemy, because theyll sueprise kyc you for seemingly no reason

<r​une:nope.chat> I remember the days when centralized exchanges had no KYC requirements up to X BTC everyday.

<r​une:nope.chat> Everything is cucked now.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Changenow and fixedfloat are law compliant and will request kyc if you a) deposit flagged coins b) do swaps over 10k c) do pattern swaps that sum to over 10k or are suspicious

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah. Mexc still has that. But only for certain countries afaict

<r​une:nope.chat> Don't you also get flagged if you’re accessing from a VPN or Tor, or if you’re using a suspicious IP address?

too much hassle, just use retoswap

or actually use trocador as a frontend to avoid some of that drama

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not for fixedfloat or changenow, in my experience

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "just use retoswap" i think you mean basicswap

<r​une:nope.chat> Is it possible to view Basicwap stats like volume without installing the app?

can't see volume after installing

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No, basicswap trade volumes are private betweem parties

<r​une:nope.chat> 🤨

yeah i can't really dedicate effort to bsx without knowing some idea of volume

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> you cant see other peoples trades and there is no central anything to track them

<r​une:nope.chat> How do swaps actually work? Are they atomic swaps?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Swaps are between 2 ppl and the ppl involved are the only ones aware that a swap happened

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yss

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> bidirectional swaps for xmr btc ltc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> atomic* swaps

<r​une:nope.chat> I'm curious about how Serai will impact swap service fees. To remain competitive, they'll likely need to reduce fees to 0.6% or lower.

<r​une:nope.chat> If an individual has multiple outputs within their wallet and subsequently transfers all their XMR to another wallet, will all those outputs be included as ring members?

<r​une:nope.chat> Imagine someone has 0.1 XMR and 0.1 XMR, totaling 0.2 XMR, with two outputs. When they send this 0.2 XMR to another wallet, will those two outputs be part of the ring signatures? Because the effective ring size is about 4.2 after OSPAD, there’s roughly a 50% chance of guessing correctly.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They will be a different ring for each input

<r​une:nope.chat> Imagine someone has 0.1 XMR and 0.1 XMR, totaling 0.2 XMR, with two outputs. When they send this 0.2 XMR to another wallet, will those two outputs be part of the ring signatures? Because the effective ring size is about 4.2 after OSPAD, there’s roughly a 50% chance of guessing correctly.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> so there will be two rings with 16 ring members each

<r​une:nope.chat> So it will have multiple key images?

<r​une:nope.chat> Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But if your inputs are in any way related (come from same source, change from spending at same merchant etc) , then privacy is reduced much further

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yea

<r​une:nope.chat> If you churn these inputs, will it convert them to a single input the next time you send them?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If by churn, you mean do a sweep_all to yourself, yea

<r​une:nope.chat> Imagine someone has 0.1 XMR and 0.1 XMR, totaling 0.2 XMR, with two outputs. When they send this 0.2 XMR to another wallet, will those two outputs be part of the ring signatures? Because the effective ring size is about 4.2 after OSPEAD, there’s roughly a 50% chance of guessing correctly.

<r​une:nope.chat> One more thing. If each input creates a new ring, does only one of the outputs correspond to your original input? 1/16?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The other 15 are decoys

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> gonna start confusing blockchain surveillance by including my own outputs as decoys

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> hand picking my decoys from now on

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> jokes on me. Lyza already own 80% of all outputs on chain

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> if only

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> seriously though it did occur to me at one point that it might be better to pick a bunch of decoys that are within a few blocks of the real spend instead of worrying about trying to guess and emulate a realistic spend age distribution

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think realistic spend is a bit , uh, unrealistic

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> mhm

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The age of the outputs being spent is one of the biggest 🚮 pieces of ring sig privacy

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sure, since adoption is ass, most people only own 1 output and usually spend it as soon as it unlocks

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But in an real economy, there is no way to actually estimate real spend

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not unless the wallet is also spending outputs based on their age etc etx

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> exactly. picking nearby decoys does reveal the approx age of the output being spent, but I genuinely think it might be less bad

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Like, some bills are often due on the 1st of the month. Does the real spend distribution account for that?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Does it account for how some people have phone bills due on the 17th? And some people on the 23rd?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Real spend based on history is probably nonsense

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i agree that its probably better to just select a few puddles (like a few diff groups of outputs within range of one another)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But i dont think it can really be done in a way that actually reliably improves anything

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Lets say i spend an output from 2020. How many other rings have outputs from 2020? How many unspent 2020 outputs still remain?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Lyza: You mean binning? A few research papers and MRL GitHub issues have discussed it.

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> I don't mean binning exactly because I think that to some extent still relied on spend age distribution from what I recall

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> with 16 decoys for each real spend, most outputs will have appeared in decoys pretty quickly and appear to be possibly "spent", that's true with both the current DSA and also if you selected decoys near to the real spend

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> with 15 decoys for each real spend, most outputs will have appeared in decoys pretty quickly and appear to be possibly "spent", that's true with both the current DSA and also if you selected decoys near to the real spend

<f​reddi99:matrix.org> hey guys! i know this is a bit off topic here, but i see people mention other platforms similar to reddit/social media where it seems that more and more are leaving for. could anyone point me to something like that?

<s​needlewoods:monero.social> there is monero.town

<f​reddi99:matrix.org> hey that's great! thanks!

monero.town won't let you use Tor either

<t​zadiko:matrix.org> I'm banned on Reddit, so I imagine Monero.town is my next stop.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> banned? you were using vpn?

<t​zadiko:matrix.org> Banned because I made some comments people reported in subs unrelated to Monero

<t​zadiko:matrix.org> Most subs are echo-chambers

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sad

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> very true