<s​vntr:matrix.org> Hello, I started a Kraken account to buy some Monero.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I have it set to buy $300 worth at $150.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> you'll be waiting a long time, i think

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Should set it to buy $300 worth at $300

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Well, I'm not in any hurry, and I can change the price after I figure out some kind of a strategy.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> And if it happens to crash, I'll be very happy!

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I'm not too sanguine about fiat currency.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I'm thinking about getting my social security $1300 / mo, and putting it into monero. Investment / mad money.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> My military pension covers my expenses quite well.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I don't think I really want to leave thousands of dollars on Kraken.

<p​olytheistic:matrix.org> You could always erect a buy offer on haveno 😂

<c​mos:matrix.stargazypie.xyz> Not your keys means it's not your coin

<s​vntr:matrix.org> What would be a good combination of hardware and software wallets, and printing stuff out and leaving it in a safe place, to keep me from accidentally loosing my money?

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Cmos Yes, exactly.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Haveno???

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Is there a better way to buy that amount of monero each month?

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I run various flavors of GNU/Linux on my laptops, and have a reasonably new android phone. (a couple actually)

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Could I get a couple of links to help me start my research?

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> At a minimum, make sure to verify the integrity and authenticity of any wallet(s) you decide to use.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Wallet developers will typically sign a message that states the wallet file hash.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Use GPG verification to check whether or not the message is signed by the developer. If verification passes (the signature is authentic), then hash the downloaded wallet file. Compare the hash to the hash in the developer's signed message.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> If you get an invalid signature or hashes don't match, investigate further and do not install the wallet.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> For hardware, I'd make sure to follow whatever procedures are available to check firmware integrity of the hardware wallet.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> For printing or paper wallets: take caution when storing plain-text seed phrases. Consider making a Monero wallet with a passphrase - but perhaps keep the passphrase to yourself or stored in a different location. Even if someone were ever to gain access to your seed words, they would still need the passphrase.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Wow! Thank you very much! I have it saved in a text file and will peruse and study it later.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> In the context of a passphrase for a wallet, the passphrase is part of the seed itself. It's a custom word, that you write yourself, that's essentially appended to the wallet-generated words.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> So to be clear: you wouldn't be encrypting your current plaintext file with a password. Rather, you have a wallet for which you made your own custom passphrase.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Usually it's somewhere in the optional or advanced menu when making or restoring a wallet. When making a new wallet, It'll ask you if you want to create a passphrase. When restoring, it asks if you have a passphrase.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> For example.. You may have wallet1, containing 1 XMR, with the following seed: "word1 word2 [...] word16"

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> You might have wallet2, containing 5 XMR, with the following seed + passphrase:

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> "word1 word2 [...] word16 + secretcustompass"

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> So if someone finds wallet 1, they'd be able to access the funds in there (1 xmr). But they wouldn't know about or be able to access the 5 XMR in wallet2 because it's a different wallet due to the custom passphrase you made. It's essentially a completely different wallet.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> That's one way to use your seed as a decoy in case of duress, etc

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> For example.. You may have wallet1, containing 1 XMR, with the following seed: "word1 word2 [...] word16"

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> You might have wallet2, containing 5 XMR, with the following seed + passphrase:

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> "word1 word2 [...] word16 + secretcustompass"

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> So if someone finds wallet 1, they'd be able to access the funds in there (1 xmr). But they wouldn't know about or be able to access the 5 XMR in wallet2 because it's a different wallet due to the custom passphrase you made. It's essentially a completely different wallet.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> That's one way to use your seed as a decoy in case of duress, etc - or to manage multiple wallets without having to keep track of a complete new set of seed words

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I have used checksums to verify distro downloads, so sha sums shouldn't be a problem. Should I start out with the Monero CLI Wallet on my main laptop? Is there anything that is safe to use on an android phone?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> At least use a password vault

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Scrapple999 dont overcomplicate things

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Yea it's the same process. Another good tip is making sure to cross-reference the developer's public key. Make sure the key you have in the keyring is legit.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I actually have a feather wallet installed somewhere... I think I'll see if I can get it going.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> make sure you update feather to the latest version

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Yea he can put his paper phrase that he printed out.. In his password vault.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> I'm giving him the information he needs to keep himself safe and thoroughly explaining everything. He can do with it as he pleases. Better to know his options than not.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Plus, he's clearly intelligent enough to figure it out based on his current setup and technical expertise so far.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> he has his password in a text file

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You went on an on about passphrases and other unnecessary stuff

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> When the main issue here is that the seed is entirely unprotected

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Thanks, Scrapple. I've done the public key verification before, and I think I'll be able to figure it out again. (Scrapple is probably my all time favorite breakfast food, by the way!)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> a passphrase wont save you if you also store that in a text file

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I will probably memorize the passphrases.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> and polyseed passphrases arent decided on yet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Some wallets use offsets, some une "encrypted seeds"

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> He said "printing stuff out", meaning he intends to print it.

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> So just telling him some things he can look into

<a​pplelover999:matrix.org> Good luck dude you got it 👍

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> My main point is that the seed needs to be protected, and the wallet password should be strong

[scrapple seems something awful from dict def.]

[is it flavored with spices or?]

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The rest is a spectrum. You dont _need_ hardware wallets, passphrases, printouts, etc, unless your threat model calls for it. A normal wallet with a strong password + securely backed up seed is good

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I've done quite a bit of memorizing stuff, and I can put something together that will never go away, I think.

your brain will go away

<s​vntr:matrix.org> I don't know exactly what the threat model looks like yet, but I'll be able to adapt an things progress.

<s​vntr:matrix.org> as things progress

<s​vntr:matrix.org> For now, I just need to get started and get familiar with the technology.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The easiest way to lose $ is to go too far towards either end of the spectrum. On one end, you can store your seed in plain text and get robbed via carelessness. On the other end, you can make paper copies of your seed, or use a hardware wallet, and have the physical copies lost, destroyed, or forgotten

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Just pray for a quick crash down to $149 while I'm sleeping tonight!

sorry, Cat will not allow that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> why would i do that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> thank the lord for nioc's cat

<s​vntr:matrix.org> Well, I set Kraken to buy at $150! then it can go right back up!

<x​3cc:nope.chat> Is it impossible to sign transaction offline (created with view-only wallet) without importing outputs?

<x​3cc:nope.chat> I have a strange error in GUI signing offline

<x​3cc:nope.chat> E offset > m_transfers.size(). THROW EXCEPTION: error::wallet_internal_error

<x​3cc:nope.chat> It worked after importing outputs, but I remember I sent transaction from this wallet and there is balance 0.00… so I didn’t improper outputs before

<x​3cc:nope.chat> Import*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero Support

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Theres someone else who is having trouble with offline signing

<x​3cc:nope.chat> Nevermind I think I did import it before, I just used wallet without imported outputs, that’s why balance is 0

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> perhaps you can help the other person? :)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Oh, you already chimed in yesterday. Thanks