<e​longated:matrix.org> Most widely adopted usecase

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Monero is old hat. It's all about kaspa these days

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> If the Twitter shills are to be believed

<e​longated:matrix.org> Thanks we are dinosaurs

diego please come to monerokon 2026

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Wen

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Where

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Trans-atlantic flights are the worst

<e​longated:matrix.org> Same place similar time

26-28 June

Prague but different location

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Uggghhhhhh

<e​longated:matrix.org> Take a cruise

fly first class

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> All my money is burned hiring math guys for you ungrateful twerps

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> don't complain, it could be worse, it can be west-east AND south-north

gratefulfortoday

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> I mean, there's so much "crypto is a scam" or "crypto is a ponsi scheme" chatter around, but that chatter is all about crypto investment, because that's all the general public think about. There's never any talk about... hey, unlike a country's official currency, these currencies are global, removing the strings of currency exchange, and Monero in particular being as anonymous as <clipped message>

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> using cash, except it can be sent clear across the world.

you sound like a criminal to me :D

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> kraken finally canceled the withdrawal (which they said was impossible to cancel). Now I'm going to try to swap it and see if it works. Then I will tediiously use another method to swap back to xmr from a place I can actually withdraw it.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> If being good looking is a crime then I'm a criminal

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> My truth bombs silence the room.

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Really, what percentage of people are "currency investors", and are focused on that? Not very many. But how many people are consumers, who go around buying things? Everybody. Want to sell the average normie on Monero? Talk about the advantages of its use, not the advantages of "investing".

<e​ddie:oblak.be> A couple of years ago when a friend of mine became father for the first time, I gave him a paper monero wallet that his daughter is only allowed to spend when she becomes 18 years. It's a silly way to spark curiosity

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I think there is some work to do in convincing small retail businesses to accept monero. For example a bar could accept monero and give customers a discount if they use it instead of visa.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> But it's a very tedious work to do the convincing

<e​ddie:oblak.be> But it's a very tedious job to do the convincing

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> One of these days, I'll get my hands on just a few hundred dollars worth of Monero, not to invest and hold, but to spend, as is the purpose of a currency, and if all goes well, it will probably become a habit, to just have some Monero on hand, to just use as a currency to buy things. Like the average person, I'm not interested in currency investment.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> sure, but you need places that will accept it, otherwise you're stuck with all that monero in your wallet

<e​ddie:oblak.be> if I could buy my groceries with it I would do it

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Small businesses cater mostly to walk-in customers. Monero would be best used for buying things across national borders.

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Ordering things from across the world

if you are operating a store, how long do you wait after receiving a crypto payment before you let them walk out?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> It can be both

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Or anonymously donating to causes.

immediately? 1 confirmation? 2?

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> But eddie, the usage you are suggesting is a usage where Monero has no advantage over cash money.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but people use cards

<e​ddie:oblak.be> well

<e​ddie:oblak.be> in my region, yours might be different

<e​ddie:oblak.be> and small vendors need to use expensive POS devices and pay fees to visa

<e​ddie:oblak.be> so monero would be cheaper for the vendor

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> But they CAN use cash money, if they wish for an easy anonymous transaction.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> yes, but it's disappearing

<e​ddie:oblak.be> most people nowadays pay using a card or phone

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Monero's big advantage is its global scope... ordering from afar.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> and in a mc donalds style business customers pay before they get their order, so the confirmations would be a big issue

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I agree, but the one doesn't exclude the other

<e​ddie:oblak.be> people pay contactless for in person purchases too

<e​ddie:oblak.be> at my local supermarket 95% of transactions are visa

<e​ddie:oblak.be> gen-z'rs don't have cash anymore, barely a credit card

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> I'm saying that Monero in those cases is no better than using cash money. If buying things in another country, Monero is really the only way to do it anonymously and also exchange rate -free.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> and in a mc donalds style business customers pay before they get their order, so in such situation the confirmations wouldn't be a big issue

<e​ddie:oblak.be> And I am saying that in europe cash is disappearing. and it is being replaced by visa, but it'd be better if it was replaced by monero

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Oh okay, yes, I get it. But this situation is merely showing that barely anybody in Europe gives a crap about leaving a transaction record trail of themselves OR about cash money becoming a non-thing, which leaves the entire society under the thumb of their ruling financiers.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Some do give a shit, but they have no idea how to fight the trend

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Stubborn ones keep using cash

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but society is working hard to make that impossible

<e​ddie:oblak.be> try get a ticket for the train with cash, becomes ever more difficult

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Maybe the actual underlying cause of WWII was that in the 1930s the entire world of people, if they weren't distracted by crazy things, and focused on their real enemies, would band together with pitchforks and hang all of the top-tier bankers.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you know the band keeps playing while titanic is sinking

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that's europe

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> That's earth.

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Think about it though. 1929 huge crash. Many banks close. Early '30s, people world-wide are poor and totally pissed off at the bankers. World governments: It's those other countries' fault! We need to invade and destroy them!

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Deflect, distract.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They probably waited 72hrs to make sure it couldnt be mined

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Just withdraw again, it should work

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> test with a smaller amount..

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> mintyonionbreath monero has some advantages over cash

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Yes, cross-border, but how so when buying in person?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. Change (dont need to go to bank when you run out of nickels)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Counterfeits (not an issue)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 3. Being robbed at gunpoint - if you use a view wallet at the POS

<e​ddie:oblak.be> for the same reasons people think card payments have advantages over cash

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Okay well that is interesting food for thought.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its like visa, without the service fees,

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Visa costs a merchant ~3% of every transaction, + a monthly fee

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that's why monero should be promoted to vendors first

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Cash often requires trips to the bank

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And manual labor, counting bills

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Have to worry about theft from employees as well

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you say buy this product with 3% discount as opposed to paying with visa. That way vendors convince clients to start using monero

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Okay, I get it.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Have to rotate floats

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If youve ever worked as a cashier, you'd know how much counting cash sucks

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Have to count all of the tills at the end of the day

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> So tell me about this "delisting" thing. Does a country "delisting" Monero make it illegal for vendors to accept it?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its god damn tedious

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<e​ddie:oblak.be> well a big reason the nazi's got very succesful was that germany was broke as hell from that other war

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> delisting happens when _exchanges_ have to jump through too many hoops to protect themselves from being targetted for unclear regulations

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bitcoin being "traceable" is setting the bar for the level of transparency expected from all crypto

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> When a coinbase comes across xmr, they dont want to lobby or be targetted for not being able to trace monero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> going against monero, is the same as going against cash

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I can deposit drug money into my bank account, then use it to buy stocks

<e​ddie:oblak.be> But privacy is a big requirement for businesses and governments to start adopting crypto, ironically. They're not going to show you their own books even if you ask nicely.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What stock exchanges want to know, is WHO deposited the money to the exchange

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> With crypto, they want to know WHO and the balances, and the past + future history

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero is like depositing cash directly to the exchange. Some dummies do this all the time. Use their ezchanfe as their own wallet, and have strangers depositndirectly to the exchange

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Coinbase doesnt like xmr becauae they cant tell WHO is depositing

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> trying to withdraw small amount now

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats why all of these halfprivate coins added "exchange addresses". To address the "WHO" part

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Very interesting. So any crypto exchange willing to deal with Monero XMR is kind of taking a risk "for the benefit of humanity".

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> for the benefit of their pockets*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero is the most used crypto, only rivaled by bitcoin

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And maybe usdt

<e​ddie:oblak.be> if it wasn't for regulations, exchanges wouldn't give a shit about the who

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> a lot of winners take profit in xmr, then use xmr to ape into pumps etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> regularions about "who" have been around, even in banking and stock exchanges, for decades

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Exchanges went from unregulated to over regulated

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They ask for _more_ info than banks now

<e​ddie:oblak.be> also banks don't give a shit if they can get away with it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And that because bitcoin is less private than fiat

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it's not the banks that invent the rules, it's the regulators

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nah, banks create their own rules too

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> So for the "Monero XMR user" (not the Monero XMR investor, but user), the user gives up some money in the exchange, but then saves some money because most accepters of Monero XMR offer a discount. Is that the deal?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Some bank, you can walk in, with account number of someone else, and deposit large sums of money

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Other banks will freeze your account if someone in a different location deposits $

<e​ddie:oblak.be> barely :-). If they can do business with a warlord and get away with it, they'll do it

<e​ddie:oblak.be> sure, some banks have more ethics than others

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> @eddie thats what i said

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> some regulations though, are like "you cant sell products at your store over 1000 unless you report it to the irs" or some retarded shit

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> and those regulators need to lose their virginity

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Go touch grass or smthn. Fkn retards

<e​ddie:oblak.be> There used to be something called banking secrecy

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that's almost completely gone

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not neceasarily a discount, but a convenience

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> eddie: The finance sector (I mean the top part of that pyramid) OWNS this planet.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> captaincanaryllc any luck?

greetings!

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> ofrn: nothing yet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you attempted a wd? And what happened>

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> yes, nothing in pool yet, no txid disclosed, but it says status is "sending" on kraken

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kraken should change name to broken

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol

<d​iw_tim:matrix.org> You're retarded.

<d​iw_tim:matrix.org> Germany did not "deflect, distract". Instead, it was left in a weakened state primarily due to the Treaty of Versailles (the fault of other nations) that devastated its economy. In the US, the 1929 crash was largely driven by greed among ordinary individuals who invested their savings in a bubble, believing they could outsmart the "greater fool" (as with Bitcoin today). The Federa<clipped message>

<d​iw_tim:matrix.org> l Reserve also played a role in the crash. It's essential to avoid being reductionist by blaming banks for all your problems.

<d​iw_tim:matrix.org> It's inevitable that when people start the banks for all their problems, the issue becomes misconstrued into blaming Jewish people, which is a form of antisemitism. I don't like this rising antisemitism in the Monero community by retards.

<d​iw_tim:matrix.org> It's inevitable that when people start to blame banks for all their problems, the issue becomes misconstrued into blaming Jewish people, which is a form of antisemitism. I don't like this rising antisemitism in the Monero community by retards.

"antisemitism" is a fake word with no meaning I'm sick of hearing it

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> got the rest of my money out as btc... still waiting on the small xmr transfer

<a​ndrewjackson:matrix.org> The 29 crash was probably caused by the "Federal Reserve Notes to the tune of 20,000 metric tons of gold were “circulating naked”" moonlightmint.com/bailout.htm

<b​asses:matrix.org> discuss.privacyguides.net/t/monero-wallet/30449

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> 0-conf under $1k would be my general rule of thumb, otherwise one or two is fine. What are the odds my in person customer has enough hashpower to re-org the chain? And if they try something funny, like broadcasting one TX to me and one to the rest of the network, and ends up getting one over on me, I jsut ban him from my store like I would a person writing bad checks 30 years ago

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> A guy is building an app called Monero Watchman that will send the user a notification in case of chain reorgs so that you can add hashrate.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> github.com/NathanRizza/monero-watchman

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> It came about because of me posting this bounty after talking with Arctic Mine on Monerotopia

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> bounties.monero.social/posts/203/0-429m-a-monero-attack-alert-app

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I figure maybe the app could be used as a general Monero network monitor in the future. Think moneroconsus, miningpoolstats, a block explorer, etc all running off your local node instead of needing to visit dashboard after dashboard

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> people should mine at their peak hashrate all the time.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I so love mining at peak hashrate when the temperature is 90 degrees in the middle of summer.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> You know, because I don't already have enough heat to be dealing with.

There is a company in the UK who install a "compute unit" or however they call it on the side of an immersion heater. They pay for the electricity and i assume leach of your bandwidth/residential ip - you get the hot water for free , like an opt in bot net :D if i could click my heels together then every time i use power to heat water there is an

efficiency gain provided by warm randomX water but i wouldnt know where to start

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> plowsof: ibb.co/0yq0JC0r

🏊‍♂️

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> mm wotah

Bo'L of randomx juice wotah

<a​lexandre:uii.pt> hmm, is the antminer x5 any more efficient than a generic computer? since it's supposedly dedicated to randomx

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> the product page shows 212kh/s at 1350w. a 7950x3d per xmrig.com/benchmark does 25.8kh/s. the tdp of a 7950x3d is 120w. it will mean you get 1320w tdp for the cpus only (plus the rest of the setups)

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> the product page shows 212kh/s at 1350w. a 7950x3d per xmrig.com/benchmark does 25.8kh/s. the tdp of a 7950x3d is 120w. it will mean you get 1320w tdp for the cpus only (plus the rest of the setups) if you got 11 of em.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> wai u need 8 7950x3d to match hashrate (206.4kh/s)

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> heh

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> WHY ARE YOU BUYING `8 7950x3d` AT THE SOUP STORE!!!!

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Dont forget power supply, mainboard, memory, maybe storage and cooling in the power consumption for the ryzen. Smaller motherboard will less crap likely to use less watts

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> is it possible to merge mine with Tari using the X5?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> NO

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> get proprietary crap, deal with proprietary limitations

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> ok but calm down

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sorry

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> it was just a question

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> i forgive you

17lifers tdp does not mean the actual wattage used

If I let mine run stock vs an undervolt overclock it would use like 2x the watts

Out of curiosity, why do CPU manufacturers not lower voltage in the first place ? Reliability ?

Since battery capacity is quite important nowdays, I'd expect them to get to the limit...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Competition. Higher voltage allow them to reach 200mhz extra if the cpu iw well cooled

ty

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Back in the days, cpu where keeping a big margin and there voltage where fine.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Now they auto overclock it by default

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They essentially obsoleted human configured overclock with Zen2, at least for cpu.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Alaska Anon made a suggestion on MoneroTopia that if possible I like and doesnt fuck with tokenomics.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Basically, what would happen is the reward would stay the same at 0.6 XMR per block. However if any minor except for P2pool finds that block, they get 0.5 XMR per block and the 0.1 gets held back. When P2pool finds a block, they get the 0.5 that every other miner gets, plus they get the 0.1 from each block previous that wasn't found by a P2pool miner. So for example, if P2 pool fi<clipped message>

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> nds a block after 11 blocks were found by other nodes, they would get 0.5 plus 1 Monero as a block reward. The 0.5 for mining the block and 0.1*10 from the rewards held back from the previous blocks.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> He was saying this could cause headlines such as "P2pool reward hits all time high".

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Just imagine, for example, if they missed 99 blocks, the reward would be 0.1 x 99 plus the 0.5 for the block.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Please note, I suck at math, so my numbers might be slightly off, but it gives the general idea.

Can consensus tell a p2pool block from a non p2pool block ?

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That is something I'm honestly not sure about.

My intuition is no, since anything a p2pool miner can do, a pool operator also can.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> When its p2pool, you get coinbases sent all over the place (to every miners who found a block in the window). While a pool normally just get one coinbase, afaik

A pool can do that easily.

^ Nothing keeps us from doing that, in fact, I do so on the Tari networks.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, they can cheat it. So other than that I dont know how they can find a Proof Of P2pool

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Damn

there are different CPUs specifically for laptops that take power draw more seriously than on desktops

<r​brunner7:monero.social> This scheme also punishes solo miners, and I don't think that's "right". No one should get punished with a lower block reward just because they want to mine alone. "You shall pool-mine, and you shall take no other pool than p2pool" is too harsh IMHO.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That too.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Consolidating all those little coinbase transactions that I will get from p2pool could anyway become harder with FCMP++, harder than it already is.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> To declare this as "the way you shall mine Monero", well ...

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/bJfIXNplwatAkePnCwKlbvNr

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Is Qubic really winning all the blocks right now, or is there a problem with moneroconsensus.info/?

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I don't know. I was looking at my Monero monitoring app and it said there was a 7 block reorg.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> THEY ARE WINING PANIC SELL

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That was through the cake wallet node.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Before panic sell you must hold something that can be sold ...

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Maybe I should write "conquer all blocks" instead of "find all the blocks", because selfish mining is not exactly nice

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Maybe they mastered their DDOS problems, the time of day is just right, with many US miners active now, and they rented some more hashrate to finally make a "point"

<e​ddie:oblak.be> holy shit

<e​ddie:oblak.be> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…d/oblak.be/xHtPQEpDmPYeYfCSRhzFYsBY

<r​brunner7:monero.social> After waiting more than a week for real 51% of hashrate the fans started to show some signs of unrest ...

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> is it done?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 20 blocks in a row?

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> With wallets using 10 confirmations as unlock time, is this a major problem? It seems like they got a 9 block reorganization.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> If they are to believed, they stop there, at 9.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't understand why it says qubic and then in red another pool?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> block reward wrestling

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Those were the original finders of the blocks, before Qubic could "overtake" them thanks to selfish mining

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Because they secretly found better blocks, in total

<r​brunner7:monero.social> But waited with submitting them

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> qubic is wrestling champion. made 13 ko's.

<t​esttank:matrix.org> At least their shitcoin is going to zero

<e​ddie:oblak.be> damn

<e​ddie:oblak.be> what an assholes

<e​ddie:oblak.be> how can they "overtake" , I never heard of that

<e​ddie:oblak.be> because they have consensus with themselveS?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> who wants to get some beer to celebrate

their shitcoin will never actually be worth anything in the long run

the point :P

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Most simple form they find 3 blocks while the other pools combined find only 2 in the same time. Network follows the longest chain, told a bit simplified

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> someday ill do monerochan dj party v2.0

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> soundcloud.com/17lifers/sets/vrchat-megahash-celebration

i honestly expect monero to outlive qubic

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Yeah, sure, but in the short run it might get pretty interesting :)

<e​ddie:oblak.be> of course

a shitcoin with no usability beyond its price, meant merely to attract moonboys

<e​ddie:oblak.be> no question about that

<e​ddie:oblak.be> maybe we should really get the ddos cannon in place

just bloat their blockchain lol

<r​brunner7:monero.social> They don't have a blockchain, so forget about bloating it

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> If they do a 10 block reorganization, they could double spend.

on a brighter note, this means kraken can actually withdraw money to people

:P

if they can double spend

kraken is not withdrawing money?

they have "delays" for withdrawing XMR to a wallet

and being super slient about why

ah I see

after their 2 major delistings

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> guy's commentary on situation

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> ibb.co/QF6hftw7

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Could it be that what we consider to be a settled transaction is actually too low? With Bitcoin, I know they only consider a transaction finalized after 6 blocks, which is 60 minutes, and we are only at 10 blocks, which is 20 minutes. Our equivalent of that would be 30 blocks.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> shortwavesurfer2009: They can do a double spend even with shorter than 10 block re-org. It all depends on how many confirmations the potential victim considers to be fully confirmed. With a 10-block re-org or longer, they _could_ accidentally invalidate another users' transaction because of an invalid index reference in a ring signature.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> is someone doing something, or are we f'd for now?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> they had 47 blocks last 100 according to miningpoolstats

would there be an emergency hard fork?

or whatever

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Another nine just detected.

<a​lbertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> Second time my transaction has been put back into the pool

<e​ddie:oblak.be> they now have 51 / 100 blocks

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> As long as they are not all in a row, that's fine.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> At least to the best of my understanding.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 32 in a row so far

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it's just a matter of time

<e​ddie:oblak.be> finally some nanopool blocks in between ^^

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> As long as they aren't orphaned.

<d​olus1:matrix.org> does the amount of ram you have influence hashrate?

<a​lbertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> To a certain extent, yes. At least 6 GB is best

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> I understand my questions might become irrelevant with all this qubic situation, but are there any rooms for newbies who are not well versed in crypto, mining, and monero in particular? As this seems to be a general discussion room. I have questions like is having current effort on p2pool of 400%+ normal or not (while for a couple of days before my average effort was around 60-70%<clipped message>

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> with 1-3 shares found per day), why p2pool needs to connect to 2 ports on monerod and not just one, what's the difference in purpose of rpc vs zmq-rpc ports, why my p2pool listens on port 63550? I really tried to find answers everywhere, but the information is very fragmented, no comprehensive guides that would explain the concepts, architecture, other than high-level LLM-like su<clipped message>

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> mmaries. Appreciate any guidance.

<d​olus1:matrix.org> Word

<d​olus1:matrix.org> How about the motherboard? Can I just get the cheapest one that supports the processor I want?

Here is appropriate for newbie questions.

<a​lbertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> RandomX is also influenced by the RAM speed/latency, so the MB needs to support the best RAM that the processor can support

Mining is a stochastic process, like playing dice. You can a few 6s in a row, or wait a long time between 6s.

RPC is call/reply or question/answer. "Gimme that info" and "here it is".

ZMQ RPC is two things, first one is another version of RPC, made for reasons of performane I believe.

<d​olus1:matrix.org> So if I got 16 GB of DDR5 RAM @ 5600 MHz and a Ryzen 9 9950X, and a motherboard that can support both, I'd be good

The second one is notifications, where you get a "here it is" when appropriate wthout having to ask "gimme the info".

<d​olus1:matrix.org> (and of course storage for a pruned blockchain)

p2pool *probably* uses tht seond one for quick turnaround.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> have you seen #xmrmine:matrix.org ?

I don't know enough to answer the other questions.

<a​lbertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> If you can afford it, you really should have a full blockchain tbh.

<d​olus1:matrix.org> Who can buy a 9950x and then not get a 1tb SSD?

<d​olus1:matrix.org> If it's better I will get the full chain

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> depend of the usecase, if its only for mining and you have the place in your homelab to stuff the blockchain then you can get whatever storage or just boot from usb

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> moneromooo, thank you for all the answers so far. It is helpful. If anyone knows what open port 63550 in p2pool is needed for, please chime in - could find any reference in documentation on the internet.

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> yep, it has even more members and seemed to be more chatty, so I figured I would start here, but thanks for pointing to it as well. I started with #monero-pools:monero.social referenced at getmonero.org/community/hangouts but it appears abandoned/closed for posting.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Yes, if you know how to use IRC you can join #monero-pools at rizon.net

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> moneromooo, thank you for all the answers so far. It is helpful. If anyone knows what open port 63550 in p2pool is needed for, please chime in - couldn't find any reference in documentation on the internet.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but it's a bit more "toxic"

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> I hoped to avoid learning IRC commands and how it works again as matrix has less of a "learning curve" to start using :)

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> but I'll take a note of that channel at rizon.net, thanks

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> I understand ZMQ is more like a subscription-based protocol, but from what I understood from the docs, if node/network efficiency and scalability is not a factor, RPC provides a superset of functionality compared to ZMQ, and if that's the case I was curious if ZMQ is really required or it just allows for better performance when there are many peers/clients

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Zmq is required for p2pool

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Theres also [#p2pool-log:monero.social](https://matrix.to/#/%23p2pool-log:monero.social)

ZMQ is just like MQTT but no message broker

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> Cindy_, I wonder, does the IRC bridge here sends matrix likes/reactions to IRC? do you see it there?

no

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/mRChkLThjhUUvdDVClicmzrI

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> That's only a 100 block window, but still.

<j​ojovial:matrix.org> Thanks, Cindy_, good to know

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I share the sentiment

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I heard xenu saying he was getting a lot of donations for some sort of xmr defense fund

<e​ddie:oblak.be> last week or so

<e​ddie:oblak.be> now is the time to activate it, but I fear it's very short notice

<e​ddie:oblak.be> preferably spend on non-mrr rigs, but machine from which we know they aren't used for mining while not rented out

eddie he is currently mining

<e​ddie:oblak.be> good to hear

Do you want to increase the network hashrate?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> its alive

The pump the price :)

*then

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> some tweet got address to donate

<e​ddie:oblak.be> i am not wealthy enough to do that single handed :D

Ok clippy

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> so thatd be like throwing new wood for the fireplace

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> ,

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it's not looking good, creeping up to 60

<i​nterestingband:matrix.org> hahahahahahaha

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> download goo packs to save the monero network NOW! i repeat, download goo packs.

goo packs sounds like a microtransaction in a game

<d​olus1:matrix.org> i think ive put together a list of parts for a small rig

<d​olus1:matrix.org> mini-itx size, tower is only 20x20x10 cm

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I have a new ryzen CPU here but the mb is still in transit 🤷‍♂️

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> cindy blame the guy who decided gupaxx is a good name

<d​olus1:matrix.org> just ordered the parts

<e​ddie:oblak.be> how can a double spend attack being detected?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> investigate at triple speed

<d​olus1:matrix.org> i got a case, cpu, cpu cooler, ram, ssd, mobo and psu

<d​olus1:matrix.org> that's all i need right?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> no, you need the xmrig binary too

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> obviously yes xd

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> linux good for mining

<d​olus1:matrix.org> great!

<d​olus1:matrix.org> now i just need to wait a couple days for it to get here lol

we need all the computers >:(

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> oh you forgot the huge ass air conditioning unit

<r​ucknium:monero.social> eddie: `print_pool_stats` command in `monerod` would show deliberate (and accidental) double-spend in the txpool after a successful double-spend attack.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> cindy: no, i need them >.<

<d​olus1:matrix.org> im gonna try this mini itx form factor thing

<d​olus1:matrix.org> i had to search for a while to find a decent cpu cooler that can fit

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that's not an rpc method?

it's a monerod command

<r​ucknium:monero.social> No. Go to the terminal window where `monerod` is running and type it in.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> ok I see

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You can probably get it through RPC, but command is easier

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 0 double spends atm

<r​ucknium:monero.social> type `help` for the other commands

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Exactly.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I am also recording the key images of every tx that appears in the txpool. Those could be analysed to detect double-spends.

i cannot believe that's a variable

that you can check

<r​ucknium:monero.social> With rucknium.github.io/xmrpeers/reference/txpool.collect.html

<r​ucknium:monero.social> plowsof is helping, too

would key images help figure out if a output was already spent?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> so pool in "print_pool_xyz" refers to mempool?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> eddie: yes

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Cindy_: yes, if the same key images appears in two different rings in incompatible (i.e. double-spent) transactions. Monero wallets have protections to prevent construction of different rings that spend the same output. It's called ring_db or something.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Cindy_: This can also be a problem in Monero ledger forks.

oh?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> moneroresearch.info/45 Wijaya, D. A., Liu, J. K., Steinfeld, R., Liu, D., & Yu, J. 2019, "On The Unforkability of Monero." Paper presented at Proceedings of the 2019 ACM Asia Conference on Computer and Communications Security.

so if you wanted to do a hard fork

you'd have to... scan the whole blockchain?,

scan the whole ledger to somehow prune out these invalid transactions?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You need to do some cryptographic fixes in the new hard fork. You alter the construction of the key image somehow, IIRC.

ah

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Invalid txs (i.e. a tx with a key image already on the blockchain) never enter the blockchain database because they are invalid.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> > "We propose a cheap, easy to implement strategy to prevent the problem of key reuse, should in the future stronger Monero forks emerge in the market. "

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I guess the fix is described somewhere in that paper.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> See this paper too: moneroresearch.info/39 Vijayakumaran, S. 2023, "Analysis of CryptoNote Transaction Graphs using the Dulmage-Mendelsohn Decomposition." Paper presented at 5th Conference on Advances in Financial Technologies (AFT 2023).

<r​ucknium:monero.social> plowsof is helping, too <<>> plowsof is everywhere

<r​ucknium:monero.social> > " Using these implementations, we evaluate the empirical performance of these methods on the Monero dataset in two ways -- firstly using data only from the main Monero chain and secondly using data from four hard forks of Monero in addition to the main Monero chain."

all of this sound prettty complicated :P

<e​longated:matrix.org> We had a 9 block reorg ?

<i​nterestingband:matrix.org> nobody cares

<i​nterestingband:matrix.org> hahahahaha

<e​longated:matrix.org> interestingband: okay bro

ironically more interesting than whatever band you have in your name

<t​esttank:matrix.org> Is pure POW a hill worth dying on?

<e​longated:matrix.org> No instant fix for this current issue though

<e​longated:matrix.org> Hopefully 0.18.4.3 comes out on soon after needed tests

<a​ndrewjackson:matrix.org> Whats the "normal" percentage for orphaned blocks?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Before cubic ? Negligible

testtank: no

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> As far as I can tell, they still don't have 51% of the hashrate, but the fact that they can do 9 block reorganizations is not great at all. Because if they can do a 10 block reorganization, they can cause real problems.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I don't know if they are just limiting themselves to nine block reorganizations at maximum, and if they are capable of doing 10 and just are not, or what, but it's quite concerning.

they're probably limiting themselves to 9

they did it twice

i mean think about it

if they actually did 10-block reorg

it would kill the value of XMR

at least temporarily, and that wouldn't be so great for their shitcoi

they're doing this for marketing purposes only, and if they did a deep reorg beyond 9, it would be suicide

<l​ightobserver:monero.social> Qubic will fail like NXT. That a certainly.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Oh, absolutely they will. But apparently, before they do so, they're going to cause us hell.

yes

their shitcoin has nothing that stands it out from the crowd, no long-term benefits or value

<l​ightobserver:monero.social> I have a feeling / probably that he made other shitcoins between NXT and qubic

it'll be yet another token moonboys will buy and then sell later

yes, sergey was involved in MANY shitcoins

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> What's really surprising is even though they don't have 51%, this is actually much worse than the day they claimed that they succeeded in the 51% attack.

<l​ightobserver:monero.social> I am trying to figure out what someone can do to secure the network better. Gupax ofc, but maybe miningrentals is also great.

<l​ightobserver:monero.social> And donating to that guy

<l​ightobserver:monero.social> Monero defence fund

i'm working on a program that automates mining on several computers

without having to tediously flash an OS into a flash drive and plug it for each computer

<a​ndrewjackson:matrix.org> That would be helpful, I'm mining on 2 machines with 2 full nodes at home, I don't know how to configure to 1

<e​ddie:oblak.be> are you mining using monerod?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> to mine you don't even need a node, you can join for example moneroocean pool. But if you want to use p2pool, you only need 1 full node, and point both your workers to your p2pool instance.

you don't have to have 2 full nodes

host a full node and p2pool server, and... do what eddie said

(i didn't receive eddie's messages in time :( )