In biology, there is the concept of viral endogenization whereby a harmful virus becomes a permanent and useful part of the host's DNA.. Has Qubic endogenized itself into Monero yet? Or not yet?

<t​orir:matrix.org> Qubic would need to be a coin with actual long-term utility for that. It's a AI-buzzword pump and dump right now.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Preaching to the choir here, but another case where Monero could have helped people dodging surveillance .. theintercept.com/2025/08/21/ice-imm…-transfers-remittances-surveillance

<e​longated:matrix.org> So are you suggesting another coin with a utility can do same kind of attacks?

<t​orir:matrix.org> Any coin can merge-mine with Monero.

<t​orir:matrix.org> Some do, in fact. Most don't stoop to the level of trying to attack the coin they are merge-mining with.

<t​orir:matrix.org> Qubic's attack is alarming because even if Qubic hasn't succeeded in their stated goal of taking over all block production, the fact that they managed to become large enough to selfish mine heavily implies that Monero's PoW is not robust enough to attacks.

<t​orir:matrix.org> If it is a major government next time, we need to be prepared.

<t​orir:matrix.org> It's also just annoying because Qubic has all the warning signs of your typical pump-and-dump coin and more. It's centralized, you can't even run a full node without permission, the mining software is closed source, the coin makes bold claims without backing them up, the inflation rate exceeds burn rate and is not sustainable.

<t​orir:matrix.org> If Monero loses to a coin like that it look bad.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> What would be the estimated cost Qubic already spent on acting like a jerk?

<t​orir:matrix.org> There have been lots of estimates going around about what the cost of the attack might be. Unfortunately, we don't have hard numbers as far as I know.

<t​orir:matrix.org> The point of the attack is publicity for Qubic, of course. Even if they didn't win, all they had to do was make it look like they won. And judging from the number of poorly researched incorrect articles about it, it seems they spent at least some money on publicizing that story.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Ok, but when is your marketing budget gone, right

<t​orir:matrix.org> It's a pump and dump. The founders make money the more publicity the coin gets.

<t​orir:matrix.org> Once the hype dries up, you extract all you can and then move on to your next coin.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I was looking at the qubic block explorer and it seems like most of their blocks are filled with transactions of 0 value

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it seems like a very elaborate scam

<t​orir:matrix.org> They got someone to prove the coin's high throughput, probably by doing a spam attack that would look like that.

<t​orir:matrix.org> On the website they apparently got someone to verify the network throughput.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> yeah that's nonsense

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't know about this certik audit, they could have bought it for all I know

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but the TPS they state is > 1000x faster than solana

<e​ddie:oblak.be> In a real world scenario it probably doesn't hold up

<t​orir:matrix.org> I can believe the throughput claims. It's easier to get high throughput when you sacrifice trustless decentralization.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 15 million per second

<e​ddie:oblak.be> even visa doesn't do that

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it's stated that visa can do 65k TPS, and that's highly centralized..

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 15 million bogus transactions, yeah maaybe

<t​orir:matrix.org> At some point Ethereum might reach that level of throughput will all the L2 networks.

<t​orir:matrix.org> 15 million is possible with a lot of tradeoffs.

<t​orir:matrix.org> It's technically possible, but not useful for cryptocurrency's usual purposes.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I am not technical enough to dispute this, but I am highly sceptical

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Everything you find about TPS on proven systems is in the thousands, not millions

<e​ddie:oblak.be> First of all, you need to *have* 15 million transactions to prove it

<e​ddie:oblak.be> even ETH handles only like a (few) million transactions per *hour*

<e​ddie:oblak.be> so to me it sounds largely only provable in a simulated environment

<t​orir:matrix.org> I'll admit that 15 million transactions is a lot. My initial reaction to the claim was "why would you need that many?" not "this cannot be possible." With a highly distributed system, non-financial system, we hit numbers like that a lot. The internet, for example, handles far more packets per second than that.

<t​orir:matrix.org> But for a blockchain, the planet doesn't spend money that rapidly.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I agree for non financial systems, but that's a whole other dynamic

<e​ddie:oblak.be> also no saying this throughput can't be improved

<t​orir:matrix.org> Qubic's scalability was also tested for only a short duration. It absolutely cannot handle that rate continuously.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> my main point is just that this bold claim is for the sake of making bold claims and make people go "ooh"

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it's not based in reality

<t​orir:matrix.org> We somehow managed to talk in circles while both agreeing on the core point. I'll end by posting this: news.bitcoin.com/no-visa-doesnt-han…nd-neither-does-your-pet-blockchain

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I saw this article too

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I still feel besides a purely technical defense, "we" need to do work to make monero widely accepted as a legitimate form of digital cash in order to "survive"

<e​longated:matrix.org> I am talking about attacks only

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I think the great/best thing about monero is the bottum-up movement, and because it's frowned upon by regulators it is lucky to not have been taken over by financial institutions

<e​ddie:oblak.be> (and corrupted by large corporations..)

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but as far as I can say something about this, work needs to be done to have monero adopted by everyday people to pay for everyday goods and services.

<t​orir:matrix.org> Legitimate cryptocurrencies tend to have little reason to attack other coins. It could happen... but it doesn't make economic sense. Even if Qubic took over Monero, it would mainly result in destroying the value of the coin they spent so much money mining. If you don't want to destroy the coin or double-spend, then honest mining is simply more profitable. Qubic already knows that <clipped message>

<t​orir:matrix.org> taking over Monero mining simply won't succeed. The community will hardfork away from it. Monero is not controlled by the miners.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Like when I go to the garage to get my car fixed, back in the days the mechanic would want me to pay in cash so he could make a little extra

<t​orir:matrix.org> Selfish mining, of course... *is* a strategy that another coin could do, if for some reason that could was already doing CPU PoW.

<t​orir:matrix.org> that could>that coin*

<t​orir:matrix.org> In my opinion cryptocurrency is still too hostile to novices for general adoption. When you come from an ecosystem where your bank refunds you when your credit card gets stolen to one where you lose everything if you forget your password, it's pretty harsh. *However*, if Monero starts to see use in regions where the traditional financial system has started to fail economically or <clipped message>

<t​orir:matrix.org> government overreach has become a major problem, that that might be enough to overcome the challenges to adoption.

<t​orir:matrix.org> Find the areas where people need Monero the most and drive adoption in those places first.

<t​orir:matrix.org> So... considering the little I've read about the current political system in the US, maybe go to the cities that immigrants live in and convince businesses there to adopt Monero.

<t​orir:matrix.org> Maybe a place in the UK that is being hit by the encryption crackdown?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I agree

<e​ddie:oblak.be> In fact the technical solutions are actually the simple ones. Spreading adoption is very hard

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> Warning re: Kraken Monero withdrawal "delay". They are being very shady about my monero withdrawal (initiated around the time they announced their "delay", before I saw it), stopped talking to me in chat, and hung up on me on phone support. Also their assigned txid doesn't match any valid txs on monero blockchain. Concerning. I have documented everything and have contacted my lawyer.

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I posted on reddit r/monero as well, but awaiting mod approval

captaincanaryllc: by any chance, where do you live?

(as in country)

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> USA

i see

kraken has been trying to distance themselves from monero

they've delisted it in the EU

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> want to clarify this is Kraken-specific. The monero network has been working fine for me with my own node and wallets sending/receiving

and by october 31st, they were planning to officially end monero trading on their platform

oh wait

i'm wrong lol

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> also this monero was the result of a spot trade from USD that they executed

october 31st 2024 was for EU users

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they also will not allow me to cancel withdrawal or swap for another coin/currency

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> since the 21st

captaincanaryllc: that is very sus

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Corporate thieves

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> 26+ xmr

crap 7K USD?

that is a LOT of money they just stole

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> yes

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I had just purchased it on their platform

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> and I know they didn't send it because txid is invalid

have you checked your wallet?

transactions come as soon as they're pushed to the blockchain

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> yes

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I'm experienced in monero and have purchased form kraken many times

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> for background

then either, the TxID is valid but they're holding back the transaction data (not sending it to a monero node) until further notice

or they were never planning to send :P

<e​ddie:oblak.be> So regulated exchange can just steal money at will?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> this isn't to do with me, they messed something up on their end monero-wise

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I offered to help them fix it

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they weren't interested

i know

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I can post info here if anyone wants to look

<w​ritemarble:matrix.org> Kraken will delist XMR in the US this year if they want to IPO in q1 2026

their node must be garbage, or they're holding back the transaction

<w​ritemarble:matrix.org> Its a tough decision for kraken though

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> well I don't really care if they delist. I will get it elsewhere

those are the two ethical conclusions

the other one is if they were never planning to give you the money

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they're most convenient until they aren't

<w​ritemarble:matrix.org> They will make unfatomable money on an IPO

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Planning to delist doesn't give them the right to outright steal funds

<w​ritemarble:matrix.org> Tru

<e​ddie:oblak.be> It's criminal behavior

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> someone else posted on reddit, same issue as me

<e​ddie:oblak.be> It's ironic how monero is accused of being used by criminals, while CEX's show more criminal behavior than average monero users

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I think contacting a laywer is the best course of action

they're probably ghosting XMR withdrawal due to new regulations coming out in the US

similar to those in the EU

<e​ddie:oblak.be> It doesn't make sense to me

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you can delist all you want, you are not instructed to seize funds from innocent users

<e​ddie:oblak.be> or maybe they are

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> Privately I have several plausible theories about what happened on the 21st. Some temporary, some permanent. I hope the monero they sold exists and is eventually going to be sent, and is just delayed as they claim.

probably this

<e​ddie:oblak.be> captaincanaryllc: what theories?

eddie: banks CAN seize funds from innocent users :P

and i'm wondering if they're doing that early in case this act passes

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> Reasons someone can't send you monero:

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> 1. they don't have the monero (if for any reason they lost it, or never had it and can't buy it)

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> 2. They don't have the equipment needed to send monero (infra failure, stored monero may be intact)

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> 3. Their source of monero dumped all their monero due to the panic cause by qubic, and now kraken can't buy monero to cover the spot trades they already executed

<t​esttank:matrix.org> I think 1, also they delisted Xmr in Canada so a lot of people might have requested a withdrawl at the same time

<t​esttank:matrix.org> And now they run out of moneros

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they are representing this as a technical problem, but won't explain beyond that. Not likely unless they had massive infra failure with no access to backups

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> said their 'best and brightest' engineers were working on it

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> no eta on a supposed fix

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nonsense

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> The Mike Lazeritis character in the BlackBerry movie: "I didn't say we have the best engineers in the world. I said we have the best engineers in Canada."

captaincanaryllc: corporations like to hide everything behind a "technical problem"

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 5 year after covid there are still "delays in responses due to high demand"

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> doesn't work for this because I have some understanding of how monero works

but how tf did they come up with a fake TxID

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> that's the part that keeps me up at night

unless their program blindly sent a transaction with the amount, and it got rejected by miners

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> what kind of fuckup could cause that

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they have some kind of custom node software sending txs I'm guessing

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> but what kind of node software gets far enough to generate a txid and then not send?

probably the one that found that they didn't have enough outputs to actually guarantee that it'll be verified on the blockchain

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> so whoever was watching the xmr wallets at kraken may have been asleep

when they delist XMR in countries, they have to liquidate people's funds to other currencies like BTC

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> fake txid? What did i miss

so i'm starting to think they ran out of money for the node to actually send a tx

and their program just pulled the txid out of it anyway

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> ofrn: kraken generated an invalid txid for monero withdrawal that never sent

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Who's txid is this?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> to my wallet from my kraken account

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> the txid isnt necessarily fake, they might have sent it to a corrupt or disconnected node

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or they are using remote nodes that arent relaying txs lolol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or they flushed the txpool or didnt fix connectivity within 72hrs

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I have documentation but since the txid is invalid you probably can't use it for any analysis

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Invalid? Or not found?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> can't cofirm, I'll post txid here

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> 2b63aleeac7876b0668b785196a280f2f300fa5b084ae7aбbf171d9938ac6lec

why are there l's

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> oops

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> correct txid:

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> 2b63a1eeac7876b0668b785196a280f2f300fa5b084ae7a6bf171d9938ac61ec

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Right amount of chars

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sounds like they probably had an issue with their node, and now have to reconcile which txs were not sent with their exchange records

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> jesus

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> and they're still taking orders

ofrn is probably correct and it will take some time

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they had no eta, so I'm guessing they don't have a working fix, aside from manually matching txs in their system

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> must be what their engineers are working on

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> appreciate the insights

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I've been suspended from r/krakensupport

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> lots of people complaining though

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I'm muted, actually

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Muted?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> kraken deleting their own comments on my reddit thread, calm cool and collected

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What were their comments? Link?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I don't usually check the reddit, im banned

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> oh muted means I can't message the mods of r/krakensupport for 7 days

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> the content of the deleted comment was just them asking for my public kraken id

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> reddit.com/r/KrakenSupport/s/Cq5DCYmPfL

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I can't see the comments

<e​ddie:oblak.be> maybe because I'm not logged in?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> maybe they erased the root comment in hopes of hiding the replies

<e​ddie:oblak.be> No offense but putting a post like you do publicy in a "support subreddit" is mostly going to do shit

sometimes there are holds relating to the ACH time it takes clear

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> because I put all my screenshots of our custo service convo there

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> and tx details

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Yeah it's not going to work like that, everyone can put anything they want, the company is not going to be thankful for that

<e​ddie:oblak.be> You know this thing called diplomacy?

it took me a week to get withdrawal on kraken for XMR but i decided i'll just leave it there anyways

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> really bad look for them. Never had major issues until now

<e​ddie:oblak.be> My friend I understand your frustration but kicking and screaming in public has never impressed anyone

<e​ddie:oblak.be> You need to resolve this through the appropriate channels like you say you're doing with your lawyer

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> kraken deserves to be called out

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I agree, but it's not going to help your specific case

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> public pressure theoretically gets me my money faster

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Hardly

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> are you sure? they're responding to me more now than prior

<e​ddie:oblak.be> There are still millions of other customers depositing money daily to kraken, they have procedures and what not, they'll not give a shit

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> they give more of a shit about their image than they do about me

<e​ddie:oblak.be> 1 person complaining is not bad publicity, it's cost of doing business

well, assume it's a big misunderstanding, wouldn't it be unfortunate if kraken decided XMR is too much to handle now? they may have been affected by the stories that XMR network was being attacked by qubic

AFAIK it's the only exchange that even has XMR trading

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> it's not just me, check reddit r/krakensupport sorted by new

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Kraken would not dump XMR because it's "to difficult to handle"

<e​ddie:oblak.be> snake62, you can still trade xmr on poloniex too afaik

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They can suspend withdraw er deposit with probably 3 clicks

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> pathetic to try to placate the cex

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> you can trade xmr on poloniex but you can't withdraw XMR from them afaik

ok well i hope this get's resolved for you anyways, good luck

<e​ddie:oblak.be> i'm not saying you're being mistreated, I'm saying your strategy is not going to get your money back faster.

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> cex is only useful if they can deliver crypto

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> otherwise they are not an exchange

<e​ddie:oblak.be> There a legally registered company, file a legal complaint

<e​ddie:oblak.be> They a legally registered company, file a legal complaint

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> why do you care, eddie? are you kraken?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> lol no, I quit kraken the day they enforced kyc

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> what's your angle?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> what's your interest?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't like to see my fellow monerites wasting time on reddit 😅

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> mind your business

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you're posting your business in a public channel

<e​ddie:oblak.be> then people start minding it

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> and your comments are useless, unhelpful, and helpful only to the cex

the other regular CEX that has monero is bitfinex

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I'm minding my money, you're talking shit

<e​ddie:oblak.be> what you expect we can do here, hold a gun against kraken employees head?

but no regular CEX will allow my location on their site

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> eddie is kraken confirmed

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't touch CEXs

<e​ddie:oblak.be> learnt my lesson on mt gox

<e​ddie:oblak.be> You have to understand if you deal with corporates, the low-level support people can't do shit outside of formal procedures. Yes they'll direct you to the right FAQ question. But compensate you for your loss? Forget about it.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> If you want to get results you need to play their game. File a formal complaint, involve the court. It's just a simple advice. No trying to offend you.

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> and to whoever snake is: I trade monero for years. If I treated a trading partner the way kraken is treating its clients, they would react with extreme vocal concern

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> so all of you trying to get me to shut up, you might as well be kraken

sorry, was just trying to help

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> thanks for nothing kraken

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> you're setting the bar so low for cexs you might aa well be one

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> who in their right mind, aside from a cex, would defend stealing a trading partners coins in a spot trade?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> are you insane or just a cex?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I wasn't going to say it

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but first lesson in crypto, don't trust CEX

<e​ddie:oblak.be> not your keys, not your coins

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I don't trust them, obviously. As I said earlier, they're most convenient until they aren't

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Real question here: why did you have xmr on kraken?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> because I bought it there 1 min earlier

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> did you just buy it using fiat?

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> yes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> makes sense

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I have added risk using cex, I build it into my pricing. This is unprecedented for kraken, so this is more risk than I planned for

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> so I fight kraken until they pay me back, then begin to disentangle myself from them totally

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kraken probably broke their workflow by requiring 720 confs lol

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> stupid in the first place

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> and I waited the full 720 for my previous deposit

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You deposited xmr to kraken? Smh

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You deserve this then

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Buying xmr from kraken = excusable

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I got away with it that time, that is my added risk

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Selling xmr to kraken = straight to jail, right away

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> "got away with it" = buying a crypto from a crypto exchange lagally

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Karma

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I am an off and on ramp so I get the gross job of dealing with cex

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i never deposit xmr onto a cex

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'll buy from but not sell to a cex

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> last time I had to buy dot and swap to xmr if you can believe that

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats fine

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Selling xmr on kraken = not fine

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I just try to keep the monero moving any way possible

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ..moving down

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> unfortunately no fast/cheap way to offramp like a cex, but it comes with this

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> swap it for ltc on basicswapnor haveno or btc on eigen/unatoppable

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dump that on kraken

<e​ddie:oblak.be> don't offramp, swap to DAI

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I don't deposit trackable coins to kraken at all, unless they came from another cex

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> kraken aint going to bother you about some ltc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> They only care abt btc and eth

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (eth accounts)

there are working on it, soon!

:D

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I like ltc mweb but dealing with anything not monero is more of a hassle

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No it iant

<e​longated:matrix.org> Who doesn’t ? Anything that has volume will get loved

<e​longated:matrix.org> Communities which hate ngu are left behind

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 720 blocks vs 15mins to swap to ltc on basicswap

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ltc has volume

<e​longated:matrix.org> And it’s available on every exchange

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But idk anyone who has ever had ltc flagged

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I couldn't get basicswap to work last time i tried, I may try again

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You shoukd have used basicswap-bash

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I did

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> user error

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> :P

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> previous system, may try again

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You can often get ltc at -0.5 to 1%

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Btc was available earlier today for -4%

<e​longated:matrix.org> Why not just use ltc mweb ? Secure chain, no attacks

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> At least binance will steal your mweb ltc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You can put it in mweb, but make sure to take it out before depositing onto a cex

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I like the idea of basicswap, if there is good liquidity it could be a fast swap

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> liquidity could be better

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'd like to get ppl like coincards (who lost access to kraken) to offer their xmr on basicswap

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> I had a full ltc node running with mweb wallet but I wasn't using it

<e​longated:matrix.org> They need instant dumps

<c​aptaincanaryllc:matrix.org> gift cards are really good for exchange in hard-to-exchange countries (ie the USA and any other country)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Theyre using dexs rn

<e​longated:matrix.org> Coincards ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Theyre in canada. Kraken no-noticed rugged xmr for them

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So they are using dexs now, and charge an extra like 3-5% for xmr purchases because they have to offload to dexs

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What they could do instead, is use basicswap xmr wallet for their btcpayaserver, and auto post offers with the xmr

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kraken 720 block confs is the same as waiting 24hrs and dealing eith volatility

<e​longated:matrix.org> Their tweet sounds like they still don’t use it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Who knows

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe they can use kucoin or mexc (blocks usa, idk about canada)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> but either way, they could auto offer their xmr for ltc at 0% all day (i bet it would sell)

<e​longated:matrix.org> Need a TO replacement till easy amm dex come alive

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> basicswap is easy

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The main problem is for takers

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Who just want to buy and walk away

<e​longated:matrix.org> Web ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nah, need to install it which involves syncing nodes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> takers shouldnt need nodes in future. Makers still need em though

<e​longated:matrix.org> So not easy like instant exchanges we use or like evm chain swaps

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Brcpayserver already downloads nodes by default

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Can reuse those nodes for bsx

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fcmp++ fork would allow evm chain like swaps ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not directly

<e​longated:matrix.org> Someone needs to solve this puzzle to get liquidity

<e​longated:matrix.org> Hyperliquid makes billions

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> evm stuff is pretty centralized

<e​longated:matrix.org> Coins are still non custodial

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah, untill you get mev attacked or whatever

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> There _are_ eth/evm atomic swaps to monero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Uses smart contract

<e​longated:matrix.org> Anything web based ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> but trouble integrating into bsx is the node. Eth nodes are fat

<e​longated:matrix.org> Or easy mobile app ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Using a centralized eth rpc is not sonething we want to do

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yet its what every wallet dev does

<e​longated:matrix.org> What happened to 2018 fluffy salesspeech sitting on floor talking about Tari xmr onchain swaps

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 🤷‍♂️🥱

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2nd emoji was typo

<e​longated:matrix.org> 18/19 whatever before they pulled all brains out of xmr

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fcmp++ fork would allow evm chain like swaps ? <<>> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/597

<e​longated:matrix.org> Thanks sernico

hbs gave a talk and a worhop on this at monerokon

also a workshop

<e​longated:matrix.org> Don’t remember seeing it, will check Monerokon vids again

vids will be coming soon™

from / for this year

<e​longated:matrix.org> Live stream isn’t available anymore ?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Recorded one

not sure but don't believe so

<e​longated:matrix.org> Yah not available

<e​longated:matrix.org> Anhdres one needs to be posted asap

for sure

<e​longated:matrix.org> Shill someone xmr and he sees a flat line lol plus delisting everywhere normies run away, I don’t even bother shilling anyone xmr 😅

<e​ddie:oblak.be> normies want a flatline, it's up/down that scares 'm

<e​longated:matrix.org> You are living in a parallel universe

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fiat is dying

<e​longated:matrix.org> Everyone knows it

<e​longated:matrix.org> Xmr looking like Fiat

<e​longated:matrix.org> Doesn’t make it attractive

<e​ddie:oblak.be> last time I checked fiat is used for pretty much all goods and services.

<e​longated:matrix.org> It’s like asking to accept Russian rubles in USA

<e​ddie:oblak.be> It's the same for bitcoin or eth

<e​ddie:oblak.be> most people don't know what it is and they don't care as long as it isn't possible to pay the rent with it

<e​longated:matrix.org> It’s not it’s better than fiat

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't know how you define normies, but the ones I know don't give a shit about btc, they want stability

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fiat isnt a flatlibe

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you say "look the price went up" and their response is "but it can go down, so I"m not touching it"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2 weeks a ago, 6 cinnamon buns were 6.37c. Today its 4 for that much

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ground beef went from like $6 per lb to 8

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fiat is anything but flat

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> A few tears ago, you coukd buy a 5 year old car for 10k. Now a 10 year old car costs 10k

<e​longated:matrix.org> You probably use stable coins to store your value and use xmr if and when needed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> At least the value of xmr can increaae

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The value of fiat only trends in 1 direction

<e​ddie:oblak.be> All I am saying is that "normies" don't do crypto yet

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Imagine being more confident in a coin that only goes down

<e​ddie:oblak.be> they wouldn't know how to

<e​ddie:oblak.be> yeah, because with the coin that goes down you can buy a bread, even if it's a bit less then yesterday

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> The best chart possible is a steady and predictable upwards, just right above inflation so it feels like a smart move to hold it but you don't feel afraid to spend it if you have to. It feels sustainable, and if you see a big pump behind you don't feel like someone else's exit liquidity.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> with crypto you can buy other crypto and that's about it

<e​longated:matrix.org> Imagine someone holding xmr since 2017 and seeing btc where it is

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that's how most people view it

<e​longated:matrix.org> Purchasing power is very important

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Genuinely curious, why do you think my talk is timely?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Not timely, just that it needs to be out there ‘asap’ ; I thought live stream wasn’t deleted

<e​longated:matrix.org> Or hidden

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Because it will be 2027 before its available

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> anhdres needs to book a tour

<e​longated:matrix.org> When ccs

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Yeah I'm also a bit sad that they removed the live streams before managing to get a copy. I wanted to take notes of the questions I got because they were very interesting

<e​longated:matrix.org> Why doesn’t monero representatives go to crypto conference anymore ?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Why don’t monero representatives go to crypto conference anymore ?

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I've been and talked to the last two labitconf editions here in buenos aires

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> they were cool to have a monero talk in the second stage

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sell tickets, sir

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> they're pretty massive events

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> someone pingeg me about congress.web3privacy.info which is happenign here in buenos aires as well, they have talk submissions open, I wonder if they'd take a monerian

<e​longated:matrix.org> Doesn’t hurt to try 😅

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I don't want to repeatmyself, even though it seems many do in these conferences

<e​longated:matrix.org> Any kind of exposure is good

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> once you see some of the livestreams you kinda start to see people repeating themselves

<e​longated:matrix.org> Yah the audience need to be told same thing repeatedly as they don’t know shit about xmr or of its existence

<e​longated:matrix.org> Justin did good job in early days

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> but at least in spanish you don't see others talking about monero in live settings, we have Lovera in youtube, perhaps escuelitabitcoin sometimes, but I wonder where the rest is when it comes to latin monero scene

anhdres your talk this year was different than any previous one I have seen from you even if it covered similar material

Was excellent

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> as did Diego Salazar and fluffy if you ask me

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> because so far I think i managed not to repeat myself! but maybe these "this is monero" talks in spanish don't need to reinvent the wheel

yep

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> when I encounter monero, it was rehrar, fluffy, and justin's speeches what made monero click just like andreas antonoupuolus ones did for btc

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> then came daniel kim and Seth For Privacy , all top class imho

<e​longated:matrix.org> For me it was in Chicago, tiny young kid talking about monero

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> i hope I'm not forgetting someone

<e​longated:matrix.org> Justin I mean

<e​longated:matrix.org> We need young speakers at conferences being in new blood and ideas

<e​longated:matrix.org> Bring*

<e​longated:matrix.org> Monero community has aged not grown in last few years

they are there

there were 2 helping run things at monerokon

but yeah, can always use more

<e​longated:matrix.org> Yes

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> i'm really thinking lately about that,i don't think we "aged" necesarily, but how to reach the younger people. even below 20. they don't seems to care that much for even crypto as a whole

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> the roblox generation

<e​longated:matrix.org> Potential is a lot, we undervalue ourselves and under perform as a result

<e​longated:matrix.org> They care if you hit them right, how they don’t have privacy and need it

that and debanking, some people got debanked or had their payments stopped recently

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> our job is to keep monero cool, specially by not trying to hard

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> young people hate to be told what's cool

:D

<e​longated:matrix.org> Apple ads shill privacy and they buy it

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I wouldn't say that apple is cool nowadays

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Dunno how accurate but saws a graph, 50% millenials use crypto, only 20% of gen-z'rs

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> matches my impression

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Dunno how accurate but saw a graph, 50% millenials use crypto, only 20% of gen-z'rs

<e​longated:matrix.org> Apple is normal nowadays, xmr isn’t 😅 we can make it cool but can’t shill like a anti gov dark coin

<e​ddie:oblak.be> the internet is not exciting an new anymore, it's where you talk to your parents and teachers

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> millenials were in the right age at the right moment, when they started their 20s and started earning money, banks were still the only thing around and dinosaurs, huge fees, no way to move money around overseas, internet was free but money wasn't. people 20 today have a lot of fintech options and nfc payments and fucking csgo skins, they don't care

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> it's inflation and the annoyances of lack of privacy that will get them

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I heard someone singing my praises so I appeared

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> *diego was summoned*

<e​longated:matrix.org> We need moar

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> More...singing my praises?

<e​longated:matrix.org> No you singing 😅

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I have a good singing voice

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Say his name and he'll appear! I believe in Joe Hendry!

<e​ddie:oblak.be> You adapt the shill to whoever is listening

<e​longated:matrix.org> Monero needs good PR

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> For most internet audiences you have to convince them that xmr is a gooner coin

<e​ddie:oblak.be> a colleague was interested in xmr because he can use it for drugs. A friend was interested because cheap crossborder payments

<m​intyonionbreath:catgirl.cloud> Well it's a least good to see people discussing "use" of a currency rather than "investment" for a change.

<e​longated:matrix.org> Okay we need repeat users, overdose n jail stops it

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I meant not payments to buy goods, but sending money to family abroad

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Monero "used" me :(

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> a friend of mine got used to use xmr because of course I told him about it, but in the days of localmonero, he felt more secure turning btc into cash because going through xmr in the middle gave him more financial privacy and therefore security when it came to p2p exchanges

<e​longated:matrix.org> Sorry, but I didn’t leave you

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> i thought it was a one-time thing, but later i found out he kept using monero