hi

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> To be honest, I have always dreamed of something similar to this, but he can't run all the node projects on a Raspberry Pi. If there are any vulnerabilities discovered in the ARM architecture, the entire network could be compromised.

ARM architecture, specifically?

not the CPU that raspberry Pi uses?

<helene:unredacted.org> and with XMPP stanzas, too? > <DataHoarder> Cindy: activitypub but using matrix protocol, via JSON-XML

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> Maybe I was too tired to understand what it says.

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> Raspberry use ARM based CPU > <Cindy> not the CPU that raspberry Pi uses?

<helene:unredacted.org> "vulnerabilities in the ARM architecture" what the heck are you talking about lol

wait

the proposal looks like it was written by AI

or at least in a style of AI

"This is not a research toy. It is a pragmatic path to a decentralised, censorship resistant market[...]"

oh MY GOD

IT'S NOT X, IT'S Y

<helene:unredacted.org> i mean it's a very shallow and empty proposal

<helene:unredacted.org> lots of words, little content

complimentary mdash in the title

<helene:unredacted.org> hey, i use those

<helene:unredacted.org> been using them before LLMs did!

lol

also the file has headings... without the # or at least the colon after

like "Who" or "What", "The Proposal"

which makes me think that this was specifically copied from a webpage rendering and pasted over

probably from chatgpt

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> @helene:unredacted.org: Emdash users are truly the people hurt the most by the rise of LLMs.

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> The ARM architecture is supplied by ARM Holdings, a private company that designs it. They do not release the license as open source. My point is that, as I understand it, the network would be powered by Raspberry Pi, and I think it is not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Powered by chatgpt*

<hanzemito:xmr.se> Hello there

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: no correct by an assitant for helping me because I have a aphasia

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Assistant using chatgpt****, sorry

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> Medical assitant using ChatGPT would be better

<helene:unredacted.org> @fartbubbler:matrix.org: i'm one of the most oppressed minorities, right after gamers

wtf is 87% mixed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @helene:unredacted.org: You're israeli?

<ret2pop:matrix.nullring.xyz> xd

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Most text is edited

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> No she from Gaza

<helene:unredacted.org> well, same about x86, which is exclusive to both AMD and Intel...? > <@octagonsupreme:matrix.org> The ARM architecture is supplied by ARM Holdings, a private company that designs it. They do not release the license as open source. My point is that, as I understand it, the network would be powered by Raspberry Pi, and I think it is not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket.

<helene:unredacted.org> they provide licenses to the instruction set architecture (ISA), and separate licenses for those who want it of silicon designs. a lot of companies do their own designs, like Amazon, Google, Samsung, Apple, Qualcomm, etc.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> then she is not oppressed.

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: More how the fuck she have access to Internet

if this proposal was AI-generated, i'm gonna be sad

because i thought they spent 18K on a server ;_;

<helene:unredacted.org> but I don't see how a buggy CPU would be problematic to the network, there's plenty of those already (and I'd be more concerned about driver bugs, kernel bugs, ...)

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> @helene:unredacted.org: My point was to not put all your eggs in the same basket.

a buggy CPU can be mitigated with software

with some performance cut

<helene:unredacted.org> well, currently they kinda are in the same basket by your standards, almost all Monero nodes run on x86_64 CPUs

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> There is risk-V bkard that start to benn cheap

depending on how severe it is

like if it's a bug on the speculative branch predictors, mitigations are fine

it's a bug on the ALU................ yeaaaaaah

if it's a bug*

<hanzemito:xmr.se> What is this room?

<helene:unredacted.org> like the pentium 4? :P

<hanzemito:xmr.se> Talking about menero?

the pentium float inaccuracies, yes

hanzemito: talking about monero

tbh, even the buggy pentium float can be mitigated with software floating-point

using the integer ALU

if that's buggy too.. you might aswell throw away the CPU

<hanzemito:xmr.se> Hmm... so you're talking about monero working system right?

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> It think the pentium 4 didnt have microcode update of the last spectre vulnerability

<hanzemito:xmr.se> I'm sorry, my english is too bad.

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> Me either and + aphasia problem, its why I used LLM.

i try my best to write long essays by myself.. even taking more than a week to do so

just for people to use LLMs anyway :P

<hanzemito:xmr.se> So is this room having any rules?

<hanzemito:xmr.se> Like no offensive.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes > <@hanzemito:xmr.se> Talking about menero?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @hanzemito:xmr.se: Yes

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> yeah dont talk about qubic

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @hanzemito:xmr.se: Yes

yes no offensive

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @octagonsupreme:matrix.org: Yes

don't say racial slurs

and also don't be one of the "qubic warriors"

<hanzemito:xmr.se> qubic? Is that real thing?

or annoying as them

<helene:unredacted.org> @hanzemito:xmr.se: "be excellent to each other and welcoming to newcomers", as per the channel topic :)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @octagonsupreme:matrix.org: ^^

<hanzemito:xmr.se> or just theory?

a game theory

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> #monero-offtopic:monero.social if you want to gossip about qubic

<hanzemito:xmr.se> whatever i notice that.

<octagonsupreme:matrix.org> @hanzemito:xmr.se: yes 50% of the conversation are focused on qubic instead of Monero

<hanzemito:xmr.se> This conversation contain joking haha.

<hanzemito:xmr.se> LOL xD

<helene:unredacted.org> it seems like that p2pool is faster on my aarch64 device than monerod, at least when it comes to validating some things; i should really profile it 🤔

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> P2pool uses randomx fast mode

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monerod does not (by defsult)

fast mode?

you mean the 2GB one?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

also btw, i don't think monerod's randomX has aarch64 JIT

while p2pool does

does it?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> No idea

<helene:unredacted.org> pretty sure they both use the same implementation, but one might not be up-to-date

hm

<helene:unredacted.org> i didn't know monerod used randomx light mode (and enforced it, seemingly), but that would explain the speed difference then

like how tevador's randomX has RISC-V JIT

<helene:unredacted.org> (and why cuprate is faster)

while xmrig doesn't?

i mean

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @helene:unredacted.org: It doesnt

some implementatios may be old :P

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Using full mode in monerod doesnt seem to speed up sync

<helene:unredacted.org> yeah, it also has aarch64 JIT, thought it might not be the most efficient > <Cindy> like how tevador's randomX has RISC-V JIT

<helene:unredacted.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: that's odd

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Monerod doesnt use 64bit accellerations, cuprare dkes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats one of the reasons

<helene:unredacted.org> huh

oh so monerod is 32-bit?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> no

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-project/monero #9856

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> > Each scalarmultKey call to the 32-bit code takes ~93 microseconds, whereas the 64-bit code takes ~37 microseconds.

i don't understand

this seems to be using the x86_64 assembly version?

<helene:unredacted.org> i feel one of the main performance hits for me is how much monerod is thrashing the disks, even though i'm on NVMe drives

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> I/O scheduler adding overhead maybe? Though I can't imagine many distros default to anything other than none, or maybe kyber.

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> For NVMe drives*

<helene:unredacted.org> I'm on a somewhat-custom kernel, but it's still fairly default; the possible issues I can see are the fact that they're on btrfs (CoW doesn't play well with databases, but I did disable that) and the SoC's IOMMU limitations

<helene:unredacted.org> i have fairly good throughput but the IOPS/latency might suffer a fair bit

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Good morning! What is the best wallet that can hold Monero and other crypto? (Bitcoin, mostly)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> On what platform

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Linux mint, and Tails.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Feather wallet

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Maybe android too.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> For monero

<dblmr:unredacted.org> I already have that, I didn't know it did anything besides Monero. Can you give me a link to study it?

<ofrnxmr> feather is monero-only

<ofrnxmr> @dblmr:unredacted.org: Android..

<ofrnxmr> cake wallet

<ofrnxmr> Monfluo (monero only)

<ofrnxmr> stack wallet[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/rubwsbYKNjNYSFl3 ]

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Ok, that's what I thought. Right now all I really need is Bitcoin and Monero, but I imagine I'll need to deal with others at some point.

<ofrnxmr> Cake, stack, and unstoppable, all support bitcoin. Cake has the most full featured monero implementation of those three

<helene:unredacted.org> also has the most privacy features for other coins too, it's one of the few Bitcoin wallets to support silent payments, and one of the few Litecoin wallets to support MWEB

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Is Cake easy enough for a crypto-challenfed old guy?

<helene:unredacted.org> depends what you would usually struggle on; i feel they try to make it as user-friendly as possible but this is not an objective metric

<dblmr:unredacted.org> I don't know enough about it to predict what problems will arise. My Linux skills are pretty good, so I can probably get it running. If Cake is a popular wallet, I imagine I'll find enough instructions on using it?

<helene:unredacted.org> they have decent documentation

<helene:unredacted.org> For example: docs.cakewallet.com/cryptos/monero

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Ok, thank you very much! I guess I'll continue the day with a Cake walk!

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Thanks for the links!

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: A shame that none of thses are in fdroid

<helene:unredacted.org> F-Droid tends to cause many issues to app developers, it's not a great platform for software in general

<321bob321> Gonna have fun when they only allow signed apks

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @helene:unredacted.org: Its an issue for projects who love tracking their users, such as mozilla's stuff yeah

<jobotnik:matrix.org> "Oh no! I cant have proprietary librairies in my GPL app!"

<helene:unredacted.org> @jobotnik:matrix.org: not really, from my understanding the main problem is that it requires the projects build on F-Droid's CI infra (which keeps going down, not working and struggling) because F-Droid wants to sign all builds with their own keys

<jobotnik:matrix.org> Cake just wants to use google's push notifications so that you have google knowing when you recieved changes on your monero wallet, big brain

<jobotnik:matrix.org> Signal doesnt allow forks which are not using google-api

<helene:unredacted.org> well, the CLI wallet isn't going away, you can still use that on your phone if you don't trust any of the options

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @helene:unredacted.org: Why should I trust the dev for generating apks?

<jobotnik:matrix.org> I should'nt have to trust the dev, I should only have to trust the source code.

<jobotnik:matrix.org> The build should be reproductible, such that I dont have to trust a single-party. In case I have to trust a single party, Id rather trust a bigger org such as fdroid that a random dev

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @helene:unredacted.org: But here its not even the central question. They dont want to use fdroid because they want to have closed source libs such as google-api

Closed source google stuff ? just the name makes me want to run away.

<jobotnik:matrix.org> cake-tech/cake_wallet #113

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @helene:unredacted.org: Yeah, but I would advise the monero project to not promote android apps that 1. Have closed source librairies. 2. That ignore talks about such issues. 3. That give users a false sense of security by giving them an unofficial fdroid repo. 4. To have in the end google knowing when user A sent money to user B as a sidechannel

Is 4 known, or just suspected ?

<jobotnik:matrix.org> From my pov, highly suspected

<jobotnik:matrix.org> Look at signal, they dont allow forks that dont use google

(by suspecting, I mean the google lib has technical ability to do it and no clear above board other reason to be used)

<jobotnik:matrix.org> Google servers have enough information, they don't have to change the lib to deanonymize the users

<jobotnik:matrix.org> I just don't get why you would use google at all

Well, monero does use a (open source) google lib for tests. I guess it's useful, though honestly no idea how much it is...

But AFAIK it never tries to call home. Never checked though.

But if the lib does call google servers, it'd be a good enough red flag.

And that is almost certainly checkable.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Unstoppable wallet is > <@jobotnik:matrix.org> A shame that none of thses are in fdroid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cake removed their google shit a long time ago > <@jobotnik:matrix.org> Cake just wants to use google's push notifications so that you have google knowing when you recieved changes on your monero wallet, big brain

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I cloudn't find this change

<jobotnik:matrix.org> There's still google gms in the gradle config

<sgp_> @jobotnik:matrix.org: Yeah, 2019? Around there

<jobotnik:matrix.org> You're just a troll

<jobotnik:matrix.org> mkyq a contributor of cake wallet wrote in august 2021:

<jobotnik:matrix.org> We just back to integration into F-Droid again. We will work on option to build the app without push notifications which require google api.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/ubObtLYKanZ4TlZN ]

<jobotnik:matrix.org> The fdroid issue was closed as a wont-fix in 2023

<elongated:matrix.org> Source code is open, you can compile and use it.

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @elongated:matrix.org: Everyone should do that?

<jobotnik:matrix.org> The monero blockchain cannot be trusted if more than 50% of their users use proprietary apps

<jobotnik:matrix.org> or opensource apps who's dev just want to give their users a false sense of security, and always try to go around central issues

<elongated:matrix.org> @jobotnik:matrix.org: Where are you pulling these figures from ?

The blockchain can still be trusted as long as *you* run a daemon from good source. What you can not trust is ring degradation.

<elongated:matrix.org> @jobotnik:matrix.org: It’s open source, if you can fix their issue of fdroid do a pr

<jobotnik:matrix.org> ring signatures where every other address in the network is controlled by mkyq, yeah sounds good

But at worst, it devolves to better (1) than bitcoin privacy wise. [1] AFAIK, I don't know much about bitcoin.

<jobotnik:matrix.org> @elongated:matrix.org: The community tried, however the community cannot add it to fdroid, only the main devs can. But those closed the issue as a wont-fix because they are busy

<elongated:matrix.org> @jobotnik:matrix.org: Closed source issue is their exchange api part, unrelated to monero

Is the monero part a separate binary, where you can remove the exchange api part so it can never run ?

<jobotnik:matrix.org> They use id "com.google.gms.google-services" version "4.3.8"

<elongated:matrix.org> @jobotnik:matrix.org: They are now on v5.4.0

<jobotnik:matrix.org> Im talking about the version of gms

<jobotnik:matrix.org> You're clearly just a troll

<jobotnik:matrix.org> Paid by cake wallet?

<elongated:matrix.org> @jobotnik:matrix.org: 😂

<helene:unredacted.org> if your security model includes google or malicious code being added to software, you should not be using anything else than the official monero CLI

didn't mr. **bic say he wasn't going to selfish mine anymore?

why would you believe anything said?

because it took like a day for him to back peddle and begin selfish mining...

*back pedal

so not really a question :)

<elongated:matrix.org> Aaajww291: Don’t trust pubic x.com/c___f___b/status/1968195867770552507

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Aaajww291: I don't recall seeing anything like that. They stopped for a marathon after the reorg and started again.

<dufebo98> Hey, if my Monero tx had 11 confirmations but became unconfirmed after a re-org. Can the sender double-spend it now? Thanks.

<rucknium> @dufebo98:monero.social: Did this happen on Sunday, September 14? Were you the sender or receiver of the transaction?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @dufebo98: yes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> By default, they would have to wait a week before being able to double spend it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Theres a pr open that would allow the double spend immediately after the initial tx was invalidated

<elongated:matrix.org> @dufebo98: If there was a 21 block reorg, yes

ofrnxmr: isn't that risky since the initial tx is still in the txpool

maybe adjust the time that old transactions get flushed out from the pool

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Invalidated txs should be flushed

ah

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: eventually/ but i dont agree that double spending should go unnoticed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> invalid are flushed after 7 days (too long imo)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> normal tx & double spends are flushed after 3days

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: No, this can happen with a12 block

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 10+n conf can be invalidated by 10+n+1 reorg

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Wouldn’t those txs go back in mempool ? Only a rouge miner can double spend

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> No, sub-10 block reorgs go back to the mempool are are valid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> > 10 block reorgs unconfirm txs and cause them to becone invalid. If a miner flushes the pool and wallet user re-spends these funds, it is a double spend

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Greater than* 10

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If minera dont flush their pools, then their nodes will reject the new tx and it will never be mined

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Is the network doesnt flush their pools, the tx will also not be relayed (peers will reject it)

<rucknium> Well, maybe the funds went to the same initial address, so it wouldn't be a double spend. But because of stealth addresses, an external observer wouldn't know that. Only the initial intended recipient could know that.

<ntma:matrix.org> Do node operators have to do anything if their node was running during the 18 block re-org? Keep getting notices of "transaction not found in pool"

<elongated:matrix.org> How did all those invalid txs end up in mempool after 18 block reorg ? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> No, sub-10 block reorgs go back to the mempool are are valid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they were reorged with empty bloxjs

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> So the txs go back to the mempool

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ntma:matrix.org: "have to", no

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: So if valid tx is in mempool, you can’t double spend it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> valid or invalid, you cant double spend it if the original is in the pool

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: So 11 conf tx getting reorg and has valid decoys, can’t be double spent

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it can be if miners flush their pool

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And if you can get your tx relayed to a miner

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Do miners flush their pool ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> We (not me) asked niners to

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: To remove invalid txs

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And a couple did. There are 55 (or more) confirmed re/doublespends

oh no

MONERO DOUBLE SPENT

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> why did they flush? Because wallets are broken

ALERT THE MEDIA

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Respent not double

i know :P

crypto gossips like to misinterpret it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: it is double spent if the sender got what they paid for and didnt re-send the funds to the same entity

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Monerod shows them as double spent no gossip 🤣

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> We dont know if any service has lost money yet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Example: if fixedfloat required 5 confs, and they released 50LTC, they could have lost the xmr

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Did the sender contact fixedfloat to repay the money? Or did they kep the xmr and the ltc and buy a lottery ticket

<elongated:matrix.org> So pubic did do a double spend attack on monero > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it is double spent if the sender got what they paid for and didnt re-send the funds to the same entity

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> They didnt double soend, but they caused a potential 115 double spends

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He is in US, when lawsuit ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> he's not in US afaik

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: They did help double spend

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> He is also claiming that there were 0 invalid txs and 0 double soends

ofrnxmr: they can get extradited

i doubt he's hiding in some 3rd world shithole

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Would need some service to report their funds lost

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: From Belarus ? lol

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Contact a few exchanges

<elongated:matrix.org> Instant exchange providers

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i personally spoke to someone who sent over 100xmr and had the tx reversed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But yet to hear from those who received the funds and lost them

elongated: do you think the 3-letter agencies will be like "aw man" when they hear he's in belarus

they'll just keep chasing and tracking him until he's in where they need him to be :P

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Belarus has non extradition treaty, maybe do a law suit in Russia

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: This was a large wallet with over 100k addresses. A service provider. Not sure if they lost funds.

<ntma:matrix.org> Thanks. Should I is a better question > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "have to", no

<preland> Topical:

<preland> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/lhgXOeghmPWWuLFWwLkEfMFQ.jpeg (ima_d681ef8.jpeg)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ntma:matrix.org: if you dont have txs stuck, it doesnt really matter

<elongated:matrix.org> Wallets should not show pending txs which are invalid, users think it’s just waiting confirmations

<elongated:matrix.org> Or mark them as invalid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: Showing them as pending is better than deleting them

elongated: federal agents will take away whatever they can out of CFB

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Tag them as invalid

this isn't a civil lawsuit, this is a cybercrime

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: Ideally it would ahow them as failed / invalid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The open pr would drop them immediately. Rm -rfing them from the wallet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Which i personally think is a terrible idea

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Can wallet identify if it’s invalid ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> One minute, i have an confirmed tx for 75xmr with 15 confs, the next its gone from the walley

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Thanks for pubic xmr is tainted with this history

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> txid gone, amount gone. Node = no knowledge of this tx. User who sent can dbl spend immediately. Also history gone from their wallet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: Its not curremt

elongated: lol, monero has had several attacks in the past

<preland> Yep. We are very quickly going down the “GRIN” timeline.

everyone will forget about this dumb shit after 5 years

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> At current, the receiver can see the tx is still pending for unexplained reasons

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Didn’t hurt actual transactions

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And can see that somethibf ia wrong

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Wallet should just tag them as invalid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: yeah, but the pr is to delete them altogether, immediatwly

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I keep mentioning it, because i dont want it accepted haha

there was a consenus bug (usig uninitialized stack data) that someone exploited

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Modify it

which caused a massive split in the chain

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its not my pr

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I left my comments there, which is the best i can do

i think that was more severe than pubic

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: It’s not a bug, they attacked

i know

i am referencing past monero attacks

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Which one invalidated txs ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: probably bitmain's asic chainsplit

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Since we caused them to fork off

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Nothing like that happened

this is the bug i was talking about

an attacker found that a part of monero's code did not initialize memory properly

<elongated:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: We did a hard fork to push away asic

so they slowly built the blocks up

until they reached 514 transactions

and then it caused a massive chain split which had plagued the nodes for months

this was one of the main inspirations for moneropulse btw (DNS checkpoint infra)

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: They didn’t invalidate any user transactions

it was worse because you had two diverging chains

so somebody could exploit that to do a double spend on either chain

transactions didn't exist on both chains

<elongated:matrix.org> This was a on purpose reorg attack

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: If you were on wrong chain

i guess

but this was also on purpose too

<elongated:matrix.org> This was a attack on correct chain

just saying it isn't the end of the world

monero will recover

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy_: Waiting for checkpoints

i'd like to see a solution against selfish mining

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> dns checkpoints have 2 potential purposes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. Prevent invalid txs

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. Punish and limit selfish mining

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1 can also be said as "prevent reorgs greater than 9 blocks"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and 2 means we can also prevent reorgs greater than N blocks (2, for example).

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Checkpointing the tip would cause us to reject organic reorgs, so were not going to do that. You can selfish mine and only release the tip block, so dns checkpoints wont solve that

<plaiwanone:matrix.org> GM

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Looks like they want to see if a 10 block reorg is safe

<dufebo98> Thanks for the replies! So after a re-org, TXes from the orphaned chain go back to the mempool, and because of the key image restriction, the sender can’t immediately double-spend until the mempool is flushed? Am I understanding this correctly?

Hey all! Is the big amount of "BLOCK ADDED AS ALTERNATIVE ON HEIGHT" in my monerod sign of still ongoing attack on monero network?

fartbubbler: they should keep this shit in testnet

That was TradeOgre

Thanks, Canada :)

<rbrunner7> It seems the Canadians now hold $QUBIC for around USD 300,000, because TradeOgre was one of the exchanges used to swap XMR to QUBIC.

canada fucked CFB

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Yeah their Discord was up in arms about it. Cfb talking about "getting the quorum" to freeze the address lol

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Very decentralized.

LOOOOOL

very very decentralized

<rbrunner7> Well, good idea, why not

So, any country can seize money from the rest of the world? Nice

<rbrunner7> Hardcode into the node software, done.

if CFB managed to freeze the address

it would actually fuck the price over more

<rbrunner7> Why?

because people would be worried if CFB would let them dump their QUBIC

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Would haven been a nice DAO moment for the community

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Give to me the Qubic Classic

How are my fellow criminals doing today?

<rbrunner7> I feel very well entertained, thank you

<rbrunner7> CUBIC continues to amaze

<basses:matrix.org> nioc, cat and mouse game of who steal seize first

stop calling it qubic

we should call it minecraft

because everything in minecraft are cubes

*cubists

<rbrunner7> Lol

I had wow on ogre that was earmarked for ruck :(

it would be a good thing if CEXs delisted us

because then QUBIC would cry more

they wouldn't have an automatic way of selling monero

<fijxu:nadeko.net> YO

<fijxu:nadeko.net> WHY IS FEE SO HIGH

<fijxu:nadeko.net> 0.05USD

<fijxu:nadeko.net> WHA

<fijxu:nadeko.net> is this cubic bullshit or what

.... that's considered high?

are you using your own node?

meanwhile the actual scam 'tradeogre dot us' remains open for business lol

plowsof: it's ogre

v_v

<sbt:nope.chat> @fijxu:nadeko.net: That's not high bruh

<fijxu:nadeko.net> @sbt:nope.chat: I ask because it's generally 0.01 or 0.02

<fijxu:nadeko.net> first time I get 0.05

<ravfx:xmr.mx> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/opPLkftixogAYqRhOdWhGYex.png (clipboard.png)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> That's why

yeah i was about to say

<ravfx:xmr.mx> 5 cents so you would be using express mode to skip the waiting line

fees adjust based on network congestion

5 cents is not bad tbh

<sbt:nope.chat> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Where is this written?

ETH's fees are like 20 dollars

sbt: there was a blogpost on the fee algorithm

<ravfx:xmr.mx> you can look at many monero block explorer (that is mine, explorer.xmr.mx)

<sbt:nope.chat> Cindy_: Only rich people use ETH /s

i only paid 50 dollars in fees ALONE

for eth

<helene:unredacted.org> the even richer people use non-SegWit BTC

i hate eth

<helene:unredacted.org> ethereum has insane fees for a PoS chain

rich people want more money

if you go lower than 50 dollars, your transaction will sit and rot in the pool

circa 2021 when i used eth and paid $30 in fees . years later then you have the crypto ape things.. not sure if thats still a thing but now the fees look low etherscan.io/gastracker

<elongated:matrix.org> Eth fees is like 1-2$

the fees may be low now but the trauma of "your transaction will sit and rot in the pool" will never be forgotten

<helene:unredacted.org> they're "low", around $0.40

flashbacks now with these re-orgs

<helene:unredacted.org> nevermind, their fees went up again lol

<ravfx:xmr.mx> ETH fee skyrocket when the network usage rise

<ravfx:xmr.mx> But it's not too bad, what's very expensive is Tokens transfer in such event, that's when you have to spend 40$ to move 1 USDT

im remembering looking at a graph and deciding what day and time i should send my eth transaction lol

<helene:unredacted.org> and now you have the mess of side-chains and L2s

<ofrnxmr> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Technicallt "normal" mode

<ofrnxmr> Empty pool = lvl 1 = unimportant = no scaling

<ofrnxmr> 80%+ full = lvl 2 = normal. This is standard fee

<ofrnxmr> manual elevation = lvl 3 elevated. This is 4x normal

<ofrnxmr> Default = lvl 0 = Automatically choose between unimportant (1) and normal (2)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Ah yeah true. "Normal"

<ravfx:xmr.mx> By "express" I ment it was going to be faster than if it did not increse the fee

<ofrnxmr> Yeah, very much helps. Lvl 3 isnt crazy expensive and really pushes lock sizes up

<ofrnxmr> Block

Qubic has yet again invalidated user transactions with another reckless reorg of 10 blocks. See the event SVG blocks.p2pool.observer/event/reorg_sep18_10/plot.svg

One transaction was invalidated in mempool (722057795c0d3e3dc72f3950c0c915f15d5fdb42b7497605faddb53d3e0f74e4)

wow, so white-hat

they are so heckin' kind

They have seen it irc.gammaspectra.live/ad8d800b73eb8b06/image.png

CFB should stop acting like a giant dumbass and own their attacks

coffeezilla should see this, holy shit

"a cryptocurrency profitting off of destroying others, and the creator denies all the claims"

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> The top 10 US exchanges should see it, seeing as they're trying to court one of them right now. Not sure how much they'd like to enable a service that exists to attack other services.

i assure you if a famous youtuber makes a video about this

qubic will literally go down the sewers

they will be delisted faster than monero

i would call qubic a terroristic and imperialistic "currency"

they try to make a quick buck by trying to destroy others

<elongated:matrix.org> You will see glory video of pubic attacking monero > <Cindy_> i assure you if a famous youtuber makes a video about this

<elongated:matrix.org> How will reorgs affect fcmp++ txs ? Invalid after how many block reorg?

10

It was recently discussed due to events :)

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Hello! I got Cake working in Linux Mint, and I am trying to do a test transfer of Bitcoin. When I click on the copy thingy, it says address copied to clipboard. I usually paste using the middle mouse button, but that won't work. I also tried ctrl-v in emacs wiith no luck. How can I get the address out of the wallet?

<dblmr:unredacted.org> Ok, ctrl/shft-v into a terminal works!